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Irish, Scots And Welsh Not Celtic - Scientist
IOL ^ | 9-9-2004

Posted on 09/09/2004 3:59:23 PM PDT by blam

Irish, Scots and Welsh not Celts - scientists

September 09 2004 at 08:15PM

Dublin - Celtic nations like Ireland and Scotland have more in common with the Portuguese and Spanish than with "Celts" - the name commonly used for a group of people from ancient Alpine Europe, scientists say.

"There is a received wisdom that the origin of the people of these islands lie in invasions or migrations... but the affinities don't point eastwards to a shared origin," said Daniel Bradley, co-author of a genetic study into Celtic origins.

Early historians believed the Celts - thought to have come from an area to the east of modern France and south of Germany - invaded the Atlantic islands around 2 500 years ago.

But archaeologists have recently questioned that theory and now Bradley, from Trinity College Dublin, and his team, say DNA evidence supports their thinking.

Affinities don't point eastwards to a shared origin Geneticists used DNA samples from people living in Celtic nations and compared the genetic traits with those of people in other parts of Europe.

The study showed people in Celtic areas: Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Brittany and Cornwall, had strong genetic ties, but that this heritage had more in common with people from the Iberian peninsula.

"What we would propose is that this commonality among the Atlantic facade is much older... 6 000 years ago or earlier," Bradley told Reuters.

He said people may have moved up from areas around modern-day Portugal and Spain at the end of the Ice Age.

The similarities between Atlantic "Celts" could also suggest these areas had good levels of communications with one another, he added.

But the study could not determine whether the common genetic traits meant "Celtic" nations would look alike or have similar temperaments. Dark or red hair and freckles are considered Celtic features.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agriculture; ancientautopsies; ancientnavigation; archaeology; bookofinvasions; bronzeage; celtic; cornish; cymraeg; cymru; cymry; epigraphyandlanguage; fartyshadesofgreen; genealogy; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; hibernia; history; indoeuropeans; ireland; irish; neolithic; scientist; scotland; scotlandyet; scots; unitedkingdom; wales; welsh
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To: blam
This "Boffin" needs a Claymore Enema!
21 posted on 09/09/2004 6:10:05 PM PDT by Redleg Duke (Stir the pot...don't let anything settle to the bottom where the lawyers can feed off of it!)
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To: blam
The study showed people in Celtic areas: Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Brittany
and Cornwall, had strong genetic ties, but that this heritage had more in common
with people from the Iberian peninsula.


Finally I understand my Welsh heritage and lust for Tex-Mex food!
22 posted on 09/09/2004 6:11:53 PM PDT by VOA
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To: JimSEA

Nothing. People moved around--a lot.


23 posted on 09/09/2004 6:12:44 PM PDT by maro (T)
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To: blam

BTTT


24 posted on 09/09/2004 6:13:01 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: blam

That's okay.

I'd sooner have something in common with the Spanish, than the French and Germans! ;-)


25 posted on 09/09/2004 6:16:22 PM PDT by Happygal (liberalism - a narrow tribal outlook largely founded on class prejudice)
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To: blam

26 posted on 09/09/2004 6:16:50 PM PDT by Lockbar (Worried about lead poisoning? Then stop eating the paint chips, Dummy!)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; SunkenCiv; 24Karet; 2Jedismom; 4ConservativeJustices; ...
Thanks Blam.
marron -- Doesn't that just tell us that there was a strong Celtic presence in pre-Roman Iberia?

Servant of the 9 -- Until the Germanic invasions starting in the first century BC, Spain was a Celtic country, as was Gaul.
spot on!
Mikey_1962 -- the Irish Celts gave the bagpipe to the Scots....evidently they did not get the joke
;') The pipes used to be found all over the Isles of the Mighty. Another survivor are the Northumbrian smallpipes.
Question_Assumptions -- Given that "Celtic" is defined by the language they speak, this really isn't all that surprising. I'm sure that many speakers of Indo-European languages aren't that genetically related to the original "Indo-Europeans" of the Caspian Sea region.
Quite agree, and would add that most genetic studies are hogwash. Fertile lines have exactly 46 lines of descent, weaving their way back through the past like the Caduceus.
Redleg Duke -- This "Boffin" needs a Claymore Enema!
:'D And he'd only need one! ;')
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

27 posted on 09/09/2004 9:44:09 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: blam
This argument pivots on how one defines "Celts", which is a debated topic, as I've mentioned on other threads. An important book which presents one side of the argument in this debate is:

Peter S. Wells, Beyond Celts, Germans, and Scythians: Archaeology and Identity in Iron Age Europe

28 posted on 09/09/2004 10:25:21 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: blam

Fascinating!


29 posted on 09/09/2004 10:25:53 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Fedora
This argument pivots on how one defines "Celts"

I've always found this quite confusing. Thanks for the book suggestion.

30 posted on 09/09/2004 10:53:13 PM PDT by lizma
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To: blam
Does this mean, I get reparations?
31 posted on 09/09/2004 10:55:59 PM PDT by razorback-bert
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To: Desdemona

ping


32 posted on 09/09/2004 11:04:58 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: Happygal
That's okay. I'd sooner have something in common with the Spanish, than the French and Germans! ;-)

THE CELTS IN SPAIN

The Celtic Music of Spain -- Galicia & Asturias

35 posted on 09/09/2004 11:42:01 PM PDT by Polybius
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: Mikey_1962

Hey now, the Irish are simple Scots before the Scots got it right. We can't help it if they're only seond best ya know!

And btw, bagpipes rule.


37 posted on 09/10/2004 12:35:39 AM PDT by MacDorcha
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To: blam
Since the original article essentially agrees with what I'd inferred over the years; OK, so what?

European history equals Celtic migrations, times, patterns, names, etc.

As to the British Isles, I'm more interested in what was it like there and who was dislodged by the Iberian Celts and those who followed?
38 posted on 09/10/2004 12:37:40 AM PDT by norton
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To: norton

You want to get into european histroy? All languages from northern India to Ireland share a common root. All of them are Aryan. That's right, celts, northmen, greeks, and gauls are all originally from India.


39 posted on 09/10/2004 12:40:46 AM PDT by MacDorcha
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To: blam

That's great that they aren't decsended from frogs... but from strong races of man.... makes me proud... Scott-Spanish blood.


40 posted on 09/10/2004 12:42:37 AM PDT by Porterville (How can the median price of a home in CA be 450,000 dollars? How? Where is the money?)
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