Posted on 09/10/2004 12:11:25 AM PDT by JohnHuang2
Edited on 09/11/2004 7:31:29 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
WASHINGTON (AP) - George W. Bush began flying a two-seat training jet more frequently and twice required multiple attempts to land a one-seat fighter in the weeks just before he quit flying for the Texas Air National Guard in 1972, his pilot logs show. The logs show Bush flew nine times in T-33 trainers in February and March 1972, including eight times in one week and four of those only as a co-pilot. Bush, then a first lieutenant, flew in T-33s only twice in the previous six months and three times in the year ending July 31, 1971.
The records also show Bush required two passes to land an F-102A fighter on March 12 and April 10, 1972. His last flight as an Air National Guard pilot was on April 16.
Meanwhile, questions were raised Thursday about the authenticity of newly unearthed memos purporting to have been written by one of Bush's commanders in 1972 and 1973. The memos, which were publicized by CBS News on its "60 Minutes" program, say Bush ignored a direct order from a superior officer and lost his status as a Guard pilot because he failed to meet military performance standards and undergo a required physical exam.
The network defended the memos, saying its experts who examined the memos concluded they were authentic documents produced by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian.
But Killian's son, one of Killian's fellow officers and an independent document examiner questioned the memos Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a captain in 1991, said he doubted his father would have written an unsigned memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance review.
"It just wouldn't happen," he said. "No officer in his right mind would write a memo like that."
The personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time also said he believes the documents are fake.
"They looked to me like forgeries," said Rufus Martin. "I don't think Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years." Killian died in 1984.
Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software. Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, pointed to a superscript - a smaller, raised "th" in "111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron" - as evidence indicating forgery.
Microsoft Word automatically inserts superscripts in the same style as the two on the memos obtained by CBS, she said.
"I'm virtually certain these were computer generated," Lines said after reviewing copies of the documents at her office in Paradise Valley, Ariz. She produced a nearly identical document using her computer's Microsoft Word software.
The Defense Department released Bush's pilot logs this week under pressure from a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by The Associated Press. The logs do not explain why Bush was flying T-33s or why he twice needed multiple approaches to make landings.
White House spokesman Trent Duffy said Thursday said he had no information on the reasons behind the multiple-approach landings or the surge in training-jet flights.
"He did his training and was honorably discharged," Duffy said.
Former Air National Guard officials contacted by the AP said there could be reasons for the trainer flights and multiple-approach landings which have nothing to do with Bush's pilot skills.
Bush could have flown T-33s so many times because his unit did not have enough F-102A jets available that week, for example, said retired Maj. Gen. Don Shepperd a former head of the Air National Guard. Another former Air National Guard chief, retired Maj. Gen. Paul A. Weaver, said he saw nothing unusual about Bush making more than one landing attempt.
"It doesn't mean anything to have multiple approaches," Weaver said.
Bush's Vietnam-era Air National Guard service became a focus of Democratic criticism this week amid a flurry of new reports about his activities. Democrats say Bush shirked his National Guard duties, a claim Bush denies.
Republican critics have accused Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, a decorated Vietnam combat veteran, of fabricating the incidents which led to his five medals.
Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard in 1968, serving more than a year on active Air Force duty while being trained to fly F-102A jets. He was honorably discharged from the Guard in October 1973 and left the Air Force Reserves in May 1974.
The first four months of 1972 are at the beginning of a controversial period in Bush's Guard service. After taking his last flight in April 1972, Bush went for six months without showing up for any training drills. In September 1972 he received permission to transfer to an Alabama Guard unit so he could work on a political campaign there.
That May, Bush also skipped a required yearly medical examination. In response, his commanders grounded Bush on Aug. 1, 1972.
Bush's pilot logs showed regular training in the F-102A until Feb. 9, 1972, when he flew 1.4 hours as the pilot of a T-33. After seven more flights in the F-102A, Bush made eight more T-33 flights between March 9 and March 15, including the four as co-pilot.
He flew an F-102A on March 12 and eight more times in April 1972.
AP-ES-09-10-04 0229EDT
Because Bush's unit was transitioned to a training unit in 1970!
The unit George Bush flew for was taken off active fighter-interceptor duty in 1970 and was transitioned to act as a training unit for the ANG.
Bush told C-Span some time ago that the last jet he flew was a T-38 Talon, not the T-33.
The F-102A was already obsolete at that time, in fact, was obsolete years before 1970! George Bush's unit had F-101s coming in to replace the F-102s. Later, the unit also flew F-105s.
Why would George Bush be flying F-102s if it was going to get yanked soon?
Since George Bush's unit was now a training squadron, it makes perfect since why he was flying T-33s (or T-38s). That is the aircraft that the new pilots will train in, and those who would help train wopuld have to keep their proficiency up in that aircraft.
The key points that the main stream media continue to avoid (on purpose) is that the F-102 was obsolete and the trainers (T-33s and T-38s) would have been utilized more and more since, after all, the unit had become a taining squadron.
I take it the author of this piece never heard of touch and goes. (Or the Air Force equivalent of them)
Understatement ;-)
For Gods sake maybe there was a deer on the runway, maybe he got waved off because of conflicting traffic, maybe there was a strong crosswind? BFD two whole approaches. Hey I know a lot of guys who can drive a boat ( and anyone can beach one). Not many guys can pilot a gas filled brick with wings.
This just sounds like touch and goes.
You can go to the Reserve base in Fort Worth...old Carswel...and see them do that every day.
I'm sick of thise non-military experts trying to evaluate military procedures. What they don't know and understand, they ass(ume) or just plain fabricate. The're nothing but dimwit pukes!
Didn't they take the F102 out of service near the end of his stint? I remember hearing it was too expensive to retrain the F102 pilots for another jet when they would be leaving soon, so there was nothing to do but hang around. Not surprising he would fly a trainer every now and then just to get some flying time in.
Wow.. Two approaches while in training on a complicated jet aircraft... maybe the admin moderator should put this in breaking news.. /sarcasm.
What a piece of cow dung this article is. Notice how it minimizes the fact that the See BS memos were most likely forgeries by levelling the missed approach charges at Bush.
When with these stupid AP writers ever learn that we are onto their tricks and obstructions?
Maybe these drooling morons have yet to hear of Blogs.
General pressured Killian in August 1973 memo.....of course the General had retired in 1972!!!
Thanks for the link, friend.
Yes.
Yeah, but McCain is a Rino so he gets a pass from the National Socialists.
This Just In: President Bush went through supermarket express lane with more than 15 items in 1974.
IMPEACH!
;-)
Oh good grief! A rejected landing is often the BEST decision a pilot could make. I know. I've made a few.
This is absolute armchair-fighter-pilot BS.
How do we ping the aviation list? I'm on it, but don't know the ping routine.
GRRRR.
Argh.
Next thing you know, he didn't file a flight plan.
Yeah, but check out post #11 for the real Smoking Gun against Bush!
OMG!! That's right! That does it -- gonna hafta vote for Kerry...;-)
The AP must teach it's journalists obfuscation in orientation--
They write an article that is about 90% devoted to covering the forgery scandal, but slip in 10% about something completely random and write up a title that applies to 10%.
You'd get an F in elementary school if you drafted a composition with these problems. Why should someone be paid for this?
Editors burying the lead.
Bush did multiple approaches in 1972? Call out the fire trucks, break out the marshmallows, he's gonna crash, oh my g-d, he's gonna crash...
< /sarcasm>
Isn't the purpose of the simulator ride also to expose the pilot to emergency situations which are far to dangerous to attempt inflight?
"Bush could have flown T-33s so many times because his unit did not have enough F-102A jets available that week, for example, said retired Maj. Gen. Don Shepperd a former head of the Air National Guard. Another former Air National Guard chief, retired Maj. Gen. Paul A. Weaver, said he saw nothing unusual about Bush making more than one landing attempt. "
From my observations while a ground pounder in an active duty F-14 squadron in 1977-1980 I can attest to the fact that even a fighter pilot would fly a C-1 (old vintage prop) if that were the only plane available to fly. Logging hours in the air is a professional pilot's greatest high and they'll do it in any aircraft available. If trainers were the only aircraft available to Bush at the time, he would have been happy to get the time in. Any pilot would.
Is Hollyweird also remaking The Running Man? Because this sounds like the laundry list of bogus charges Richard Dawson read before sending Arnie and company down the tube.
Archangelsk, check this out for your howl of the day.
I'm afraid I just can't vote for Bush after this... I mean, it's OK for girls to do a go-around, but real men put it down regardless. I've never, ever, made a go-around, (and no, you can't look in my logbook), not even at Christmastime in Cambodia when I plugged my Mac and Laserwriter into the jungle telegraph and wrote CYA memos in Microsoft Word. I flew with a fighter pilot who said I was the best he ever saw. I'm sorry, he can't be named. He's a document examiner with CBS News now.
I dunno about you, but my instructor taught me, "if an approach looks dodgy just force that damn thing on there. Gravity is on your side, and nothing much bad ever came of landing short, or long, or too fast, or skidding it around the base-final turn with the rudder." He was a great instructor and everybody loved him. You should have seen all the people at the memorial service!
And... oooh, he flew the T-33. That's another thing I remember hearing. "That T-33, that's a girly-man plane, why it will just barely kill you. Them eee-jection seats, well on the T-bird they are just a decoration, you don't never need 'em." (Hint: check out any memorial to NASA astronauts. I bet at least one croaked in a T-bird).
Why, a pilot ain't hardly worth his chest hair if he does sissy stuff like go-arounds. I bet if they really look into it someone caught him pre-flighting the plane, or using a (gasp) checklist. What a fairy!
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
Yep. As Bush was flying F-102A and TF-102A in Texas, hundreds of them were at AMARC, Davis Monthan, where they were destined to be made into drones and shot down by pilots of newer planes, or cut up for scrap metal.
They weren't in the best shape when units received them. Think of a rental car that the company has replaced, but it's still drivable. It took Herculean efforts by the maintenance crews to keep them flying.
Yep. The achilles' heel of the QF-102 drone problem was the damn 102s... they were more often unavailable.
This might also explain why sometimes he flew a T-33. Also, at that time the USAF on active side had trainers (T-33 or T-37) available that pilots could just check out and go fly for proficiency, go visit relatives, whatever, if they weren't on the roster. Also, you have to fly a certain amount to get flight pay, although it looks like Bush had that covered, as long as he was flying at all.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
If Matt Kelley is typical, he is probably totally and permanently ignorant of anything related to technology. Obviously, he has never flown or been near people who do fly.
Unless one flies daily, it is quite common to abort landings. He is unaware of this, obviously. Flying a T-33 is worlds different than flying an F-102. It takes a few hours to become totally acclimated to a different aircraft.
Again, this dork has no clue whatsoever. And the pathetic thing is that this doofus does not have the sense to know that he is ignorant and to make the small effort to talk to a flyer. They are all over the place.
Once upon time there were editors who made sure the less competent did not publish crap, but it sure looks like those days are long gone.
Well, yes. Assuming there is a simulator on base, and within limits. It would be criminally negligent to expect pilots to fly simulators exclusively, unless going on a "real" mission. Another serious error born of ignorance.
In the final anlysis, nothing is a substitute for flying the real thing in the (infinitely variable) real world.
Matt Kelley and Associated Press should have done their homework before posting this trashpiece!!!!
Air Defense Command, Later Aerospace Defense Command Fighter Interceptor Squadrons maintained Fighter types(in this case such as the 111th F.I.S.'s F-102As'{plural of F-102A, etc.}) and Trainer types. Again in the 111th's case, TF-102As' and T-33As'.
The Squadrons TF-102As'(two seat, side by side seating in the TF-102A) were used for initial and continuation training for the F-102As'(single seat interceptor). They were also used for radar intercept and navigation training.
The 111th's (as in all other F.I.S.s' at the time) T-33As' served a Dual Purpose!!!!
1.)Initial and Follow on jet training.
2.)Many T-33As' were fitted with a pair of underwing pylons and racks. These were used to carry ECM (electronic countermeasures) pods and chaff dispensors. They were used fitted as such in the Agressor role simulating Bad Guys for the Interceptor Pilots(in the 111th's case at the time, F-102A and later F-101B and still later F-4C aircraft.) to train against with simulated weaponry!!!!
Lt. Bush must have been a good pilot for he as many of his squadronmates were triple aircraft qualified(F-102A, TF-102A and the T-33A)!!!!
In addition to explain the go around and landing. Again the inept and uneducated(or overeducated) media, in this case AP, did not do their homework, again. Go arounds prior to landing is a standard training procedure for the pilots to sharpen their skills in their final approaches to the runway prior to landing. This is a standard training procedure. Sometimes touch and go's are incorporated into this training. Also Aircraft go around sometimes to burn off excessive fuel so as to not land exceedingly heavy which would be hard on the airframes.
Very Best FReegards All,
Defender2
P.S.(Admin Moderator, I pinged you to this for your historical interest as well, enjoy!!!!)
Ping to the article and my post #38!!!!!!!!!!
Ping to this AP trash article and my very extensive rebuttal post #38!!!!
I heard a pilot pan the offending article on TV..Thanks Defender.
Ping to the Article and my Rebuttal in my post #38!!!!
Your more than welcome, MEG33!!!!:-)
Best FReegards, Always,
Defender2
D2
Ping to article and post#38!!!!
If I had a dollar for every go around and missed approach I executed, I'd be in a higher tax bracket.
From your post, I see that you have done your time!!!!:-)
Did you see my post #38?
Best FReegards,
D2
Yes, great point about being multi-rated. That is no easy task.
Sure is not easy. Thanks, TADSLOS!!!!:-)
Best FReegards,
D2
Please hit your High Volume Ping lists to this article and my post #38, please, thanks!!!!
Best FReegards,
Defender2
D2
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