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Bloggers Run Rings Around The Partisan, Lazy Old Media
http://mostlydeadarmadillos.blogspot.com/ ^ | September 10, 2004 | Stephen Johnson

Posted on 09/10/2004 7:27:13 AM PDT by CHAROM

CBS News is a partisan political mouthpiece for the Democratic Party, much like PRAVADA was for the old Soviet State.

(Excerpt) Read more at mostlydeadarmadillos.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: killian

1 posted on 09/10/2004 7:27:14 AM PDT by CHAROM
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To: CHAROM

PRAVADA? Someone needs Soviet Spell Check.


2 posted on 09/10/2004 7:30:07 AM PDT by JennysCool (Funny how militant environmentalists always ruin the lawn)
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To: CHAROM
Why the excerpt?

Post it all.

3 posted on 09/10/2004 7:30:52 AM PDT by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: CHAROM; All

I'm looking for where this all started. The media is crediting Powerline. Here is what I have so far:

on 9/9:

12:16a first official FR thread on the validity of the documents: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210702/posts

7:51a powerline provides an extensive analysis: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007760.php

9:42a first FR thread referencing powerline: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210946/posts

Does anyone have any corrections, addendums to the above?


4 posted on 09/10/2004 7:40:47 AM PDT by kpp_kpp
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To: kpp_kpp
Isn't it Bush who says you can accomplish all sorts of things if you don't care who gets the credit? Anyway...the Internet ROCKS! Bloggers are cool! Drudge is master of the Web(where would we be without him?)! And Free Republic is the best! Oh yeah, FOX News and conservative radio are awesome too. This one was a team effort.

Imagine if we were back in the days when ABC, NBC, and CBS really ran the information show.

5 posted on 09/10/2004 7:49:20 AM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Legislatures are so outdated. If you want real political victory, take your issue to court.)
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To: CHAROM
10 to 1 odds the guy below is the perp who forged the documents. I'll bet he gave them to the DNC, which shopped them to CBS, who then asked for some verification and was refered back to this guy. Otherwise, how did CBS find a "friend and colleague" who ran the TANG admin office so fast?

Robert Strong was a friend and colleague of Killian who ran the Texas Air National Guard administrative office in the Vietnam era. Strong, now a college professor, also believes the documents are genuine. "They are compatible with the way business was done at the time. They are compatible with the man that I remember Jerry Killian being," says Strong. "I don't see anything in the documents that is discordant with what were the times, what was the situation and what were the people involved."

Posted here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1211995/posts

6 posted on 09/10/2004 7:50:32 AM PDT by narby (CBS - The new Democrat 527)
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To: CHAROM
"Bloggers Run Rings Around The Partisan, Lazy Old Media"

We also do it for free. Last I checked, stuffed shirts like Dan Rather were making (certainly not earning) $10 million.

7 posted on 09/10/2004 7:56:09 AM PDT by tom h
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To: kpp_kpp

There was an FR post made immediately after the broadcast on 9/8. I believe that the post was initiated by Howlin. Buckhead made the first definitive comment on the forgery at post #47 within a few minutes of the show's completion. There was another FReeper involved but I forget his/her name.


8 posted on 09/10/2004 8:01:26 AM PDT by Bob
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To: narby
10 to 1 odds the guy below is the perp who forged the documents. I'll bet he gave them to the DNC, which shopped them to CBS, who then asked for some verification and was refered back to this guy.

I'm not taking that bet, narby. Your logic is dead on. And what does the guy say? The docs look like the ones we produced. Well of course they look like the ones you had, that is what you were trying for when they were faked!

9 posted on 09/10/2004 8:04:34 AM PDT by laredo44 (Liberty is not the problem)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

I don't care who gets the credit. Just curious on the "when" side of it - when was the first post on a widely read internet site that questioned the validity of the documents due to the typesetting?

Old media is dead is the only point. Powerline had an analysis that anyone (connected) in the world could read at 8a the next morning. I was looking to see if anyone may have been questioning it while the show was airing, etc.

Credit? who cares

Old media: spin
New media: slam


10 posted on 09/10/2004 8:04:55 AM PDT by kpp_kpp
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To: kpp_kpp

Oh yeah I'm with you on that. Hey, I hear FReeper Buckhead was the first one to raise questions about the docs authenticity. There's another thread about it.


11 posted on 09/10/2004 8:08:15 AM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Legislatures are so outdated. If you want real political victory, take your issue to court.)
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To: CHAROM
While I believe that CBS ran with this story because it clearly suits their agenda, I think it is time we call this exactly what it is: poor quality, sloppy reporting of the "Ready, Fire, Aim" variety.

All these reporters want to be the next Woodward & Bernstein--the guys to break the next big "scandal". Only problem is that no one wants to do the legwork and verification required.

Just look at all the stories about plagiarism and the retractions that have to be made from rushing too quickly to press. It is just shoddy, shoddy journalism.

12 posted on 09/10/2004 8:10:32 AM PDT by cincinnati65 (Just up the road a piece.......)
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To: narby
Robert Strong ... who ran the Texas Air National Guard administrative office in the Vietnam era

You will notice that this fellow, Strong, is said to be the person who ran the TANG administrative office in "the Vietnam era" (which ended in 1975, I believe). AP and others are reporting that Rufus Martin, the man who was the personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time these memos were supposedly written, said he believes the documents are fake. "They looked to me like forgeries," he stated to the Associated Press. "I don't think Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years."

Robert Strong definitely needs to be looked at. Why AP didn't ask Rufus Martin what he knew about Strong is beyond me.

13 posted on 09/10/2004 8:16:44 AM PDT by Gee Wally
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To: kpp_kpp
8:59 AM, 9/9/04:

Post # 47 To: Howlin

Howlin, every single one of these memos to file is in a proportionally spaced font, probably Palatino or Times New Roman.

In 1972 people used typewriters for this sort of thing, and typewriters used monospaced fonts.

The use of proportionally spaced fonts did not come into common use for office memos until the introduction of laser printers, word processing software, and personal computers. They were not widespread until the mid to late 90's. Before then, you needed typesetting equipment, and that wasn't used for personal memos to file. Even the Wang systems that were dominant in the mid 80's used monospaced fonts.

I am saying these documents are forgeries, run through a copier for 15 generations to make them look old.

This should be pursued aggressively.

47 posted on 09/08/2004 8:59:43 PM PDT by Buckhead

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14 posted on 09/10/2004 8:21:53 AM PDT by humblegunner (All your font types are belong to US.)
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To: humblegunner

thanks.

Now that you guys have pointed me in the right direction...

I found this one: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210516/posts?q=1&&page=101#148

at 8:27 which would have been during the airing - he questions the validity due to the fact they were typed but not because of the typesetting...

And at 8:44 Howlin asks for help in getting a better look at the documents: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210516/posts?q=1&&page=151#197 ("how they were typed")


15 posted on 09/10/2004 8:48:47 AM PDT by kpp_kpp
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To: kpp_kpp

This is big stuff for FR.. I couldn't be more pleased!


16 posted on 09/10/2004 8:51:27 AM PDT by humblegunner (All your font types are belong to US.)
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To: humblegunner

the link:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210662/posts?page=47#47

and of course now:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1212080/posts


17 posted on 09/10/2004 8:57:08 AM PDT by kpp_kpp
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To: kpp_kpp

8:19p http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210516/posts?page=107#107
TankerKC: "They are not in the style that we used when I came in to the USAF. They looked like the style and format we started using about 12 years ago"


18 posted on 09/10/2004 9:06:04 AM PDT by kpp_kpp
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To: kpp_kpp
Powerline blog first post http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007760.php

refers back to

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210662/posts#47

Now why is it important to refer it back to us? Well it is because it’s is because it raises the big question

HOW we amateurs could spot right of the bat what CBS couldn’t after supposedly doing there professional due diligences?

The show just bias CBS is...they didn't see it because they didn't want to see it

19 posted on 09/10/2004 9:13:33 AM PDT by tophat9000 ("Karma Sutra Kerry"... he's got 101 positions on any issue but in the end your just F....ed!)
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To: Howlin; Buckhead; TankerKC; NYCVirago

Can you help kpp_kpp with a timeline in post 4?


20 posted on 09/10/2004 9:20:26 AM PDT by nutmeg ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - Comrade Hillary - 6/28/04)
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To: JennysCool

Heh heh heh...


21 posted on 09/10/2004 9:20:32 AM PDT by SAJ (Ivan won't hit NorthCentral FLA...strongly suggest writing OJX calls, 100-strike, now & on rallies.)
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To: kpp_kpp

Yes, I can.......hold on.


22 posted on 09/10/2004 9:21:53 AM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: Howlin

thanks. looking to create a timeline to settle the question and keep adding details as they arrise. it is a fair bit of effort for those of us that weren't on the first threads.

i think the timeline is fascinating just for comparison to how things may have happened 4, 10, 15 years ago, etc.


23 posted on 09/10/2004 9:31:21 AM PDT by kpp_kpp
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: kpp_kpp
I was looking to see if anyone may have been questioning it while the show was airing, etc.

Yes, we were.

Read the entire first thread.......you'll soon see how many questioned it.

25 posted on 09/10/2004 9:37:40 AM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: kpp_kpp; All

Hold on.........that timeline is out of order.

I'll repost the correct one in a minute!


26 posted on 09/10/2004 9:47:51 AM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: kpp_kpp
This is the corrected timeline:

There is so much information OUT THERE, I decided to put up the OFFICIAL version, rather than let bloggers misconstrue what actually happened.

This is the OFFICIAL timeline:

I put this thread up for the 60 Minutes show.

Live Thread: Ben Barnes and CBS Attempt Another Bush Smear (60 Minutes) at 7:39:18 PM EDT.


At 8:19:00 PM EDT TankerKC posted this:

To: Howlin
WE NEED TO SEE THOSE MEMOS AGAIN!

They are not in the style that we used when I came in to the USAF. They looked like the style and format we started using about 12 years ago (1992). Our signature blocks were left justified, now they are rigth of center...like the ones they just showed.

Can we get a copy of those memos?

107 posted on 09/08/2004 8:19:00 PM EDT by TankerKC (R.I.P. Spc Trevor A. Win'E American Hero)
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To: Howlin
Every damned "witness" is now dead. I want to see an analysis of those new papers. They are all type written so it should be possible to see if it was written on a Government Issue typewriter of that era. This stinks like week old fish.
131 posted on 09/08/2004 8:24:06 PM EDT by Texasforever (Kerry's new slogan "IT'S NOT THE STUPID CANDIDATE SO STOP SAYING THAT")
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To: cyncooper; TomGuy; hole_n_one

Can some of you guys in the later time zones WATCH this interview and get a GOOD LOOK at those docuemtns.....how they were typed, where the signature was.....that kind of thing?

A screen grab would be great!

Who else does screen captures?

197 posted on 09/08/2004 8:44:13 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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That thread continued along for a bit with people commenting on the documents and the show.


Then CBS put the documents up on their web site:


To: TC Rider; Mo1; All; cyncooper

HERE THEY ARE:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/08/60II/main641984.shtml

Scroll down on the left!!!!!!

363 posted on 09/08/2004 10:38:38 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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Then Pikamax put up this thread:

Documents Suggest Special Treatment for Bush in Guard


To which Buckhead posted the shot heard round the world:


To: Howlin

Howlin, every single one of these memos to file is in a proportionally spaced font, probably Palatino or Times New Roman.

In 1972 people used typewriters for this sort of thing, and typewriters used monospaced fonts.

The use of proportionally spaced fonts did not come into common use for office memos until the introduction of laser printers, word processing software, and personal computers. They were not widespread until the mid to late 90's. Before then, you needed typesetting equipment, and that wasn't used for personal memos to file. Even the Wang systems that were dominant in the mid 80's used monospaced fonts.

I am saying these documents are forgeries, run through a copier for 15 generations to make them look old.

This should be pursued aggressively.

47 posted on 09/08/2004 11:59:43 PM EDT by Buckhead
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After all the questions that arose from everybody on the forum, I put this thread up:


THE "New" CBS BUSH DOCUMENTS: Let's do some investigating


As Buckhead said on another thread, many, many Freepers were involved.

27 posted on 09/10/2004 9:49:28 AM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: Howlin

Thanks for that official timeline, Howlin. Excellent work as usual! (Wow, you're fast!)


28 posted on 09/10/2004 9:51:44 AM PDT by nutmeg ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - Comrade Hillary - 6/28/04)
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To: Howlin

thanks so much. (you 'mis-pasted' the '47' comment but i understand the timeline.)


29 posted on 09/10/2004 9:52:19 AM PDT by kpp_kpp
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To: kpp_kpp

Check again......I recorrected the timeline later on down the thread........


30 posted on 09/10/2004 9:56:14 AM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: nutmeg

I was already working on it for backhoe's thread........LOL.


31 posted on 09/10/2004 9:57:18 AM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: Howlin
OK, I know I've been pinging you all like mad over the past 24 hours regarding FReepers' participation in "Documentgate" (aka "Typegate", etc.)...

See post 27 for Howlin's official timeline of events.


32 posted on 09/10/2004 9:59:54 AM PDT by nutmeg ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - Comrade Hillary - 6/28/04)
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To: StarFan; Dutchy; alisasny; BobFromNJ; BUNNY2003; Cacique; Clemenza; Coleus; cyborg; DKNY; ...
OK, I know I've been pinging you all like mad over the past 24 hours regarding FReepers' participation in "Documentgate" (aka "Typegate", etc.)...

See post 27 for Howlin's official timeline of events.


33 posted on 09/10/2004 10:02:19 AM PDT by nutmeg ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - Comrade Hillary - 6/28/04)
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To: Gracey; Alamo-Girl; RottiBiz; bamabaseballmom; FoxGirl; Mr. Bob; xflisa; lainde; dixierose; ...
OK, I know I've been pinging you all like mad over the past 24 hours regarding FReepers' participation in "Documentgate" (aka "Typegate", etc.)...

See post 27 for Howlin's official timeline of events.


34 posted on 09/10/2004 10:04:04 AM PDT by nutmeg ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - Comrade Hillary - 6/28/04)
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To: kpp_kpp

Timeline

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1212200/posts?page=32#32


35 posted on 09/10/2004 10:06:40 AM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (Veritas vos liberabit)
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To: Howlin; nutmeg; CyberCowboy777

Here is what I have compiled based on everyone's help:

(times in EDT)

09/08/2004:

Live 60 Minutes thread ('Howlin'):
07:39p http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210516/posts

Validity questioned due to formatting by 'TankerKC'
08:19p http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210516/posts?page=107#107

Suggestion to check a gov typewriter of the era by 'Texasforever'
08:24p http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210516/posts?page=131#131

Validity questioned due to "they were typed" by 'armybratproud'
08:27p http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210516/posts?page=148#148

'Howlin' asks for help to get a better look
08:44p http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210516/posts?page=197#197

Documents posted to CBS website
10:30p http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/08/60II/main641984.shtml

NYT article thread started by 'Pikamax'
11:10p http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210662/posts

First post questioning documents due to type/font by 'buckhead'
11:59p http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210662/posts?page=47#47

09/09/2004:

Offical "Documents" thread created
12:16a http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210702/posts

Powerline provides an extensive analysis
07:51a http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007760.php

Thread referencing Powerline on FR
09:42a http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210946/posts


36 posted on 09/10/2004 10:14:48 AM PDT by kpp_kpp
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To: kpp_kpp

That looks right to me.


37 posted on 09/10/2004 10:20:30 AM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: nutmeg

Thanks for the ping!


38 posted on 09/10/2004 10:36:42 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: nutmeg

bttt


39 posted on 09/11/2004 2:19:30 AM PDT by lainde (Heads up...We're coming and we've got tongue blades!!)
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To: Howlin; Jim Robinson; TankerKC; Buckhead
The story you have just read is true. The names were not changed to expose the guilty. On Tuesday, November 2nd, an election was held in the country of the United States. In a moment, the results of that election. President George W. Bush was re-elected for a second four-year term. Senator John F, Kerry, defeated in his bid for the Presidency, is still a useless Senator from Massachusetts whose wife has recently dropped his last name. Anchor Dan Rather-Biased has retired from CBS News. Producer Mary Mapes was fired from CBS and has written a whiny book that makes the prose of Maureen Dowd look mature and refined -- not to mention less bitter. CBS News continues to spread distortions, lies and propaganda from coast to coast, albeit with a reduced audience and even less political relevence. Jim Robinson and Free Republic STILL RULE!! Jim Robinson and FREE REPUBLIC
40 posted on 11/04/2005 10:22:43 AM PST by You Dirty Rats (I Love Free Republic!)
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To: Howlin; Jim Robinson; TankerKC; Buckhead

The story you have just read is true.

The names were not changed to expose the guilty.

On Tuesday, November 2nd, an election was held in the country of the United States. In a moment, the results of that election.


President George W. Bush was re-elected for a second four-year term.

Senator John F, Kerry, defeated in his bid for the Presidency, is still a useless Senator from Massachusetts whose wife has recently dropped his last name.

Anchor Dan Rather-Biased has retired from CBS News.

Producer Mary Mapes was fired from CBS and has written a whiny book that makes the prose of Maureen Dowd look mature and refined -- not to mention less bitter.

CBS News continues to spread distortions, lies and propaganda from coast to coast, albeit with a reduced audience and even less political relevence.

Jim Robinson and Free Republic STILL RULE!!


41 posted on 11/04/2005 10:23:37 AM PST by You Dirty Rats (I Love Free Republic!)
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To: JennysCool

I think they're a handbag designer!


42 posted on 11/04/2005 10:26:54 AM PST by LibWrangler
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To: You Dirty Rats

ROFLOL.

Y’all did good.


43 posted on 09/21/2007 6:56:09 PM PDT by Pikachu_Dad
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To: kpp_kpp

Goes to show the new media doing its job.


44 posted on 04/17/2013 12:41:52 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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