Posted on 09/10/2004 7:54:07 AM PDT by Smartaleck
Excerpts....
The Kerry end is near? At this precise time every four years, the most media-savvy members of the Gang of 500 begin to think about their roles in the premiere post-election forum that revisits the actions and players of the presidential race.
But if nothing changes in the race as it now stands — with President Bush winning a decent-sized victory — much of the talk will be about the greater technical proficiency of the Bush-Cheney effort.
Democrats, who deny up and down that they had anything to do with the documents, tell ABC News that they plan to continue their push to question the president's Guard service, irrespective of the CBS situation.
Top Democrats vow to continue to lead the charge against Bush along these four lines
1. Bush allegedly got special treatment
2. Bush allegedly was suspended for missing his medical exam
3. Bush allegedly didn't fulfill his requirements
4. Bush allegedly didn't release all the documents he said he'd release
But they acknowledge that it might be more difficult to break through the clutter of questions surrounding the documents' authenticity. (Guess they won't heed BC's advice?)
ABC News' George Stephanopoulos said on "Good Morning America" that "a lot of Democrats think this might have been a set-up" by Republicans — a sentiment we are likely to hear more of in the days to come.
(ABC acknowledges Freepers broke the story...yeah boy)
We always favor looking at the content and substance over WHO is offering up the information, but in the war that will ensue about WHO gave CBS the potentially phony documents, it is interesting to Note that the right (Drudge, Fox, right-leaning blogs, others) led the way in pointing out the questions we have all been asking — and they were onto the questions, with remarkable detail, relatively soon after the documents were made public.
Here's part of how this story got here . . . from a little Marc Ambinder back-lurking on the blogs . . .
At 8:00 pm ET Wednesday night, CBS News does the story . . .
at 8:59 ET — before the broadcast is finished!!! — the documents come into question via a poster named Buckhead on the Free Republic Web site: LINK http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210662/posts
Buckhead seems well-read on his forensic document examination skills. "Howlin, every single one of these memos to file is in a proportionally spaced font, probably Palatino or Times New Roman. In 1972 people used typewriters for this sort of thing, and typewriters used monospaced fonts. The use of proportionally spaced fonts did not come into common use for office memos until the introduction of laser printers, word processing software, and personal computers. They were not widespread until the mid to late 90's. Before then, you needed typesetting equipment, and that wasn't used for personal memos to file. Even the Wang systems that were dominant in the mid 80's used monospaced fonts. I am saying these documents are forgeries, run through a copier for 15 generations to make them look old."
Well, this is bandied about by dozens of Freepers, as they're called and is picked up at 8:30 am ET and added to by www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/ — this little green football guy is a very popular conservative blogger . . .
It's expanded upon by www.powerlineblog.com/ in the early morning:
and also by www.spacetownusa.com/hmmm
and here, at 10:36 am ET: www.allahpundit.com/.
snip The Boston Globe does not get into the debate about the documents, focusing instead on the full-throated DNC push on Bush's service. LINK
A New York Times editorial on the new documents and Bush's Guard service does include a reference to the documents' authenticity being challenged. LINK
The White House lobs claims that the Kerry team is behind attacks on Bush's military service record. The Washington Times ' Bill Sammon reports White House press secretary Scott McClellan describes it as desperate measures for desperate times. "You absolutely are seeing a coordinated attack by John Kerry and his surrogates on the president." LINK
And let us not be the last to point out that if a(nother) major corporation was withholding information related to serious allegations made against the president of the United States, "60 Minutes" would be all over them, demanding to know about their documentation and expert back up.
The Clintons (Begala, carville, Lockhart, McAwful) are now in total control. Kerry is burn't toast. What a maroon.
How large is Rather's staff? Does he take "research" from the DNC or their spin-off fronts?
Is his job to investigate, or to read though the stuff that's handed to him?
If he's "fed" the "news" is there an inherent bias to keep his handlers in power?
Is there a conflict of interest when the people who feed you the "news" are out of power and your take isn't as good? Is there an incentive to get "your guys" back in?
Does Rather have a dog in this fight? If the insiders who give him the "good stuff" are out of power, how "good" is the "stuff"? Rather still shills for dems, but people don't care as much because dems don't call the game. And Rather doesn't have insider Republicans to do his job for him....
If the DNC is doing Rather's work for him and for CBS, is CBS being paid by the DNC?
What is the is the coin of the realm for a one-sided "bribe" in the news field?
Can you just imagine how the republicans would be
regarded if they had attacked FDR during WWII in
the same way the democrats attack Bush now ?
The islamofascists hate us all, democrats, republicans and independents.
I'm pretty sure they're implying that buckhead's secret indentity is ... Karl Rove?
So now they are trying to say Bush smeared himself?
So all the stuff not in bold was written in the "ABC Notes"?
How'd you get them?
They must not spend a lot of time at FR if they think it's suspicious that we discuss news stories while they're going on. Didn't they check the 4000 + posts of the various campaign speeches?
Now NBC and ABC need to feast on their own (ABC) MSM. They need the ratings and I hope it turns out to be a feeding frenzy. A house divided (MSM) cannot stand.
Where would this story have gone without the FREEPERS?!?!
Congratulations to all involved!
I meant their own (CBS)
Burden of proof is on the Democrats and CBS.
They have to prove their charges.
They have yet to do so.
Just damn.
If you want on the list, FReepmail me. This IS a high-volume PING list...
Did you mean "moron", "macaroon" or "marooned"?
Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe he's all 3.
Maybe he's a moron marooned on a desert island eating humble macaroons instead of pie. Or crow.
Oh, never mind, I see you used bold for emphasis and put your comment in parens. It just reads so oddly to me, I obviously have never seen such notes.
Oh yeah....Rove without a doubt. LOL
G-Man of PT fame? If so, sure would like to see your room in rememberence of 911.....what a great time.
So all the stuff not in bold was written in the "ABC Notes"?
Pretty much. My smarty comments are in parenthesesessss.
Personally, just because I'm catty, I'd like to send a cease and desist to ABC's The Note on Fair Use violations and copyright infringement. Our new policy should be link to the thread and only post the Freeper's screen name.
snicker snicker
'Buckhead' is really Donald Segretti!
;-)
My uncle is Bugs Bunny. I said maroon.
---------------
Dan..........oh, Damn!
Note......another freeper beat me to it....with a little less elaboration.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1212080/posts
(disguise himself as some guy named Ben Barnes when he so desires.)
ROTFLOL
That's okay, this is worth reading over and OVER again!
I agree. I am a relatively new freeper - Proud to be here and all I can say is you guys Rock. The Lib's are on the run now!!!!!
Even if some sneaky Republicans did perpetrate this hoax, it served to expose a very important truth -- how the left-leaning media instantly believes and disseminates ANY anti-Bush information no matter how flimsy the evidence for it. If it was Republican hoaxsters, I hope they run a similar hoax in a couple of weeks -- only with some fake anti-Kerry docs. Then, when the MSM thoroughly investigates the docs, determines they are fake and runs stories headlined about how someone is spreading fake anti-Kerry docs, the hoaxsters can reveal themselves and prove their point beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I have been reading FreeRepublic almost since it began and have always considered it one of the very best sources for breaking news. I never realized it would someday SAVE the COUNTRY. The nation owes a debt of gratitude to those Freepers who pulled this off. God bless you.
Democrat pollster Pat Cadell just said on Fox News that if the documents are proven to be forgeries the Kerry campaign will be tied to it and the election is OVER!
"it served to expose a very important truth"
Good point. Hannity whacked, I believe it was Harkin the other day. He read several lines, implying they were Bush's words about going to war with Iraq. Harkin bit the bait and started blasting Bush whereupon Hannity said......ah, Kerry said that, not Bush.
It was really a phenomenom to see Harkin's head morph into a horses a$$.
LOL
I spent 6 years in the print media, 30+ reporters/writers, 8 person copy desk, etc.
There's no doubt that even at CBS, some news pros would have been questioning this story. Some might even have been going ballistic over running with it (I've seen phone books thrown across the bullpen during hot editorial disagreements).
Rather might even had disagreements with the senior editors/reporters, though he'd be the big dog because it's his face on the tube. So ultimately he won, and ran with a bogus story.
I'll venture that right now, several CBS news staffers want Rather's head on a plate, perhaps to the point of threatened resignations and unfettered newsroom grumbling. Rather has embarrassed the entire CBS staff.
The coin of the realm for Rather is the validation of his own political beliefs. He's not supposed to do that, and he knows it, but he's obviously lost his news judgement. I don't believe there's a "payoff" beyond that.
Believe it or not, there are no doubt others on the CBS staff who see this for exactly what it is, but they are not in the postition to make public the internal strife on the inside. They'll probably be talking about it with their news colleagues (at other networks and newspapers), but no one at CBS will want to directly air the dirty laundry. It'll come out in the next few days as gossip, guaranteed.
"I have been reading FreeRepublic almost since it began "
I was lurking in 97 and registered in 98. I've seen a lot of blustering and false starts and hopes dashed since that time. Looks like the good guys scored.....scored big time!!!!!!!! ^5
at 8:59 ET — before the broadcast is finished!!! — the documents come into question via a poster named Buckhead on the Free Republic Web site"
PROBLEM IS..... it was NOT at "8:59 ET" before the broadcast is finished"
It was ACTUALLY at "11:59 ET" when Buckhead posted this. A full 3 HOURS AFTER the time the ABC report states. Note the "PDT" timeline post:
47 posted on 09/08/2004 8:59:43 PM PDT by Buckhead [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]
i think they feel it takes some kind of expert to recognize this scam, which is simply not true. Hiring an expert is major overkill. It's that obvious to anyone who's grown up with even rudimentary type knowledge.
I don't think they realize how obvious the proportional font issue is to anyone who actually wanted to create proportional type in the days before it was easy. I would have made the same observations if I'd been the first to see the paper, within minutes of examining it.
It doesn't take decades of extensive knowledge and hours of study to realize the document was created on a modern computer, by someone who has no clue what using a typewriter was like.
D
And remember leadpenny's thread, credited by the WSJ as providing the first report of trouble with the space shuttle Columbia's re-entry, while the craft was still over the far western U.S.
No, it's not the least bit suspicious when FR starts dissecting a news event while it is still in progress.
BTTT
Caddell appears genuinely mystified about Kerry's fixation on Vietnam, and says if his campaign doesn't change the focus quickly, the race could be "over" within a couple of weeks. Then, when the subject of the possibility of the "CBS" documents came up, Cadell said that if they do in fact turn out to be forged, Kerry is done.
Asked why he was being so hard on the Kerry campaign, Caddell responded that he [Caddell] was "trying to save his party by telling the truth."
"So ultimately he won, and ran with a bogus story."
Given the can of whupa$$ Fox put on the MSM during the Rep. Convention and the poor ratings of CBS it's not leap of faith to conclude Danny boy was desperate and Fubar'ed.
did CBS 60 minutes ever reveal the source of these papers?
My sentiments, exactly. I get so POd at some of the BS posted here - however - the BS is far outweighed by this being the BEST breaking news source on the internet! There is nothing finer, even ham and eggs in Carolina. Congratulations to the greatest newshounds in the world!
Agreed. Any of the millions of Americans who worked in military/government offices in that time period would be able to recognize whether a document could or could not have been produced on the equipment in use at that time. And military/government equipment was WAY behind what was in use in the private sector, so just because somebody from IBM says some very new Selectrics at that time "might" have had superscript capability, doesn't have anything to do with the matter.
"the source of these papers"
Not so far. Won't even open up to other news media from what I've read.
1. If he did - so what - a lot of people in that era got "special treatment
2. That was going on a lot in that era also - if you didn't show up for your exam - you wouldn't be able to fly anymore - and if he was getting out, what's the big deal
3. If he didn't fulfill his requirements, he would not have gotten a discharge from service - he would have gotten a courts martial
4. He told them to release all the documents - in an organization like the military - documents are misplaced, misfiled all the time - heck even at major companies documents are lost or misplaced. An Komrade Kerry has not even requested that all his documents be released. (sour grapes?)
Too funny!
But honestly, I don't think this was a Republican hoax. Why? Because it has all the hallmarks of the incompetent Kerry campaign. If a Republican operative had done this, it would have been done a lot better -- would have done a harder to detect forgery, so that it WOULDN'T be discovered almost immediately, so that the media and Kerry campaign would have some time to dig themselves in deeper over it, before the fraud was exposed.
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