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Two more "Killian" documents
USA Today | 9/11/2004 | Charleston1

Posted on 09/11/2004 4:09:42 PM PDT by charleston1

The CBSNEWS website includes links to four pdf files that are allegedly documents produced by the late Lt. Colonel Jerry B. Killian. The USA Today website (search on "bush docs") includes a link "see the memos" which links to a pdf file which includes all of the CBS documents and two more. The two additional "Killian" documents are dated 02 February 1972, and 24 June 1973. The earlier document includes the more informal "Jerry B. Killian" signature block but no signature. The later document is an apparent practice letter with a salutation to "sir" but no address or name of the person to whom Colonel Killian is trying to correspond. I can certainly understand why these two additional documents did not make the "60 Minutes" cut. They are worth reviewing for a number of reasons if you have not seen them.


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 60minutes; killian; napalminthemorning; seethememos; tang
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1 posted on 09/11/2004 4:09:43 PM PDT by charleston1
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To: charleston1

give a link


2 posted on 09/11/2004 4:11:12 PM PDT by FesterUSMC
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To: charleston1

some URLs would be helpful.


3 posted on 09/11/2004 4:11:54 PM PDT by counterpunch (The CouNTeRPuNcH Collection - www.counterpunch.us)
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To: charleston1

links!


4 posted on 09/11/2004 4:12:57 PM PDT by aft_lizard (I actually voted for John Kerry before I voted against him)
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To: charleston1

Find here:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-09-09bushdocs.pdf


5 posted on 09/11/2004 4:14:58 PM PDT by sitetest (Spitball Kerry for Collaborator-in-Chief!)
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To: charleston1

http://www.usatoday.com/news/2004-02-14-bush-docs.htm

bottom of the page, the "see the memos" link


6 posted on 09/11/2004 4:15:13 PM PDT by chemical_boy
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To: charleston1

I tried to link to the article but must have screwed up because the USA Today was rejected. Anyway now that the thread is up.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/2004-02-14-bush-docs.htm


7 posted on 09/11/2004 4:15:54 PM PDT by charleston1
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To: charleston1
I can certainly understand why these two additional documents did not make the "60 Minutes" cut.

And that would be????? It's your thread.
8 posted on 09/11/2004 4:20:13 PM PDT by WHBates
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To: charleston1
I can certainly understand why these two additional documents did not make the "60 Minutes" cut.

And that would be????? It's your thread.
9 posted on 09/11/2004 4:20:14 PM PDT by WHBates
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To: charleston1

What are your observations???


10 posted on 09/11/2004 4:21:57 PM PDT by faithincowboys
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To: charleston1
Signed up today......hmmmm.

Why do you think we should see these "practice" letters?

11 posted on 09/11/2004 4:22:12 PM PDT by Dog
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To: charleston1
Kerry/Edwards

12 posted on 09/11/2004 4:22:52 PM PDT by opinionator
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To: charleston1

Hi!

Welcome to FR!

You may find this post useful:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1213319/posts

Glad you found your way here!


13 posted on 09/11/2004 4:23:50 PM PDT by MaryFromMichigan (We childproofed our home, but they are still getting in)
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To: charleston1

Welcome to FR..... hope you enjoy the forum

Now what is it about these documents that you think caused them from being included in the CBS story?


14 posted on 09/11/2004 4:23:54 PM PDT by deport (In politics, as in fishing, you don't have to be a genius. You just have to be smarter than the fish)
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To: charleston1

I'm waiting for the Colonel Killian memos praising John Kerry and proclaiming that one day Kerry would make a great president.


15 posted on 09/11/2004 4:24:00 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: charleston1

And how do we know these haven't been altered, or
completely re-forged, since CBS was caught out of
school earlier this week?


16 posted on 09/11/2004 4:26:12 PM PDT by Boundless
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: opinionator

The site must be busy, I can't get them to download.

I think, the link "see the memos" is what we are looking for, there are six pages in that file, 2 of them must be the ones they didn't use.


18 posted on 09/11/2004 4:29:01 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: WHBates

The first memo dated 02 February 1972 is the only document with a signature block without an actual signature. It is inconsistent in that regard when compared to the others. Given the comments that Gary Killian made about his Father always signing his full name, the complete lack of a signature is certainly inconsistent with the Colonel's habits. I think Gary Killian claims he told this to CBS prior to the article airing, IIRC. There is some handwritten gibberish further down the page that I would like CBS to explain. Bath and Bush were both suspended from flying status for the same reason (lack of physicals).

The second document is missing Lt Bush's serial number, does not identify a staff member to whom Killian allegedly talked (verifiable reference), and the report was due in May not June.


20 posted on 09/11/2004 4:32:46 PM PDT by charleston1
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To: charleston1

The dates are still not in military style. When will they ever learn?


21 posted on 09/11/2004 4:35:53 PM PDT by NavySEAL F-16 (Proud to be a Reagan Republican)
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: charleston1
All these documents discredit the entire story content.

The AWOL story is dead.

The entire forged doc story is to get the new swift vets story off the air.

DOES EVERYONE REALIZE THERE IS A NEW SWIFT VETS AD?!

The MSM wants everyone to not view that. To not talk about kerry IN HIS OWN WORDS saying I threw 8-9 medals!

JohnFKerry
supplied the memos to get the media to stop the vietnam vets story. As Clinton ordered.
23 posted on 09/11/2004 4:37:26 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: bhlewis
I've just noticed that there is a smudge that appears on each paper. I could see were this would happen if they were all faxed on the same fax machine or scanned on the same scanner.

The best way to locate it is to look at the signature on the fourth page. At the extreme left side of the hand written signature, a faint line bisects the arc of the capitol "J". You will see this faint line on all other pages.

Again, probably not a big deal.

24 posted on 09/11/2004 4:37:54 PM PDT by avg_freeper (Gunga galunga. Gunga, gunga galunga)
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To: charleston1

Not to mention Bush wasn't even due for a yearly medical until his birthday, in what is it, July? From what I understand the airforce requires medicals yearly and made the airmens birthdates as the time to have them.

Did Bush have his medical done the prior year? He must have, otherwise he would have been grounded in July 1971. Why would there be a medical required 6 months early?

Besides failing the Authenticity test, these "memos" fail the logic test as well.


25 posted on 09/11/2004 4:39:37 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: sitetest

These seem to be worst copies then CBS'


26 posted on 09/11/2004 4:42:10 PM PDT by The Bandit
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To: charleston1

When did the late Lt. Colonel Jerry B. Killian retire from the military. I keep hearing conflicting stories. One being, that he retired in 1972 and would have had no dealings with the pilots in 1973.


27 posted on 09/11/2004 4:42:32 PM PDT by moonman
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To: Dog

If you'll recall, 60 Minutes sent the Killian documents to the White House for the interview with Communications Director Dan Bartlett. Dan Bartlett then sent all of those documents out to the rest of the news media. Of course this included the two new ones CBS chose to omit. In other words, the White House forced CBS in to a full disclosure with the rest of the News Media. I have pointed out in another post what is wrong with the two documents. If you were an objective reporter looking at all six documents what would you conclude? I was being sarcastic in referring to the letter being a practice letter. My apology for not being clear. Who writes a letter and does not address it? In their totality the six documents are an obvious hoax.


28 posted on 09/11/2004 4:42:56 PM PDT by charleston1
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To: charleston1

Did you notice the letterhead on aug 72 memo. its superscripted. this is inconsistent with all the other letterheads. Plus the dates have commas between the month and year. This would not have been done by a military member.


29 posted on 09/11/2004 4:43:16 PM PDT by not too stupid
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To: charleston1
For the life of me I can't understand why we are even talking about documents which are unsigned. (Several of the original four supposed memos don't even bear Killian's signature.)

I always thought a memo to the file or correspondence had to be signed to be official. IMHO, an unsigned typed document is just a meaningless piece of paper. It's not an official record.

Thanks for the heads up on the other documents.

30 posted on 09/11/2004 4:45:33 PM PDT by dano1
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: longtermmemmory

The entire forged doc story is to get the new swift vets story off the air



Bingo... except I think it is also designed to get all the negative stuff of Kerry off the MSM and take the Bush Campaign off message....

This is a non issue unless they can find that President Bush doesn't have a legitimate DD214 stating 'honorable' in the type discharge block or where he failed to meet the minimum points in each year of his service. But they win as long as it stays the topic and keeps the Bush Campaign from being on message... The sooner this is dead the better it is for the campaign.


32 posted on 09/11/2004 4:47:20 PM PDT by deport (In politics, as in fishing, you don't have to be a genius. You just have to be smarter than the fish)
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To: not too stupid

sorry make that the june memo


33 posted on 09/11/2004 4:47:30 PM PDT by not too stupid
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To: charleston1; sitetest; chemical_boy; WHBates; faithincowboys; opinionator; Tooters; CWOJackson; ...
Here is another au th entic document Dan found:


34 posted on 09/11/2004 4:49:25 PM PDT by demkicker (I'm Ra th er sick of Dan)
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To: CWOJackson

Yeah, it was probably Killian that ordered Kerry to go on those secret missions to Cambodia! Do yah think?


35 posted on 09/11/2004 4:49:31 PM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: bhlewis

He was a pilot who was Lt Bush's immediate Supervisor. He in turn worked directly for Lt. Colonel Killian. You can reiveiw documents they authored at the USA Today website on that link I gave earlier.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/2004-02-14-bush-docs.htm

(2004 series)

You will note all of the fonts are monospace on eveything that came out of that Fighter Wing wth no superscripts. A fact that even a novice at "60 Minutes" should have caught prior to Dan Rather's meltdown preamble last night.


36 posted on 09/11/2004 4:49:33 PM PDT by charleston1
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To: faithincowboys
The address data appears to be a formatted letterhead:

111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron

P.O. Box 34567

Houston, Texas 77034

37 posted on 09/11/2004 4:51:01 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: Boundless

All we have is the integrity of the USA Today so your point is well taken.


38 posted on 09/11/2004 4:51:15 PM PDT by charleston1
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To: charleston1

The J on the signature of the Aug 72 memo is not the same as the J on the June 73 memo. Or am I seeing things?


39 posted on 09/11/2004 4:51:44 PM PDT by YOUGOTIT
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To: demkicker

LOL! Don't be surprised if it doesn't show up on the CBS Evening Slews.


40 posted on 09/11/2004 4:52:07 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: deport

"Welcome to FR..... hope you enjoy the forum"

Thank you very much. I certainly am enjoying it and I must admit I am quite impressed with the intelligence level shown here. This is like supersleuth heaven. I must I admit I am overwhelmed by the traffic volume. You see I type about as fast as Colonel Killian did.


41 posted on 09/11/2004 4:59:56 PM PDT by charleston1
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To: CWOJackson

CBS Evening Slews?

Perhaps CBS Evening Screws?


42 posted on 09/11/2004 5:00:29 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: moonman

Staldt retired in '72, not Killian. One of the memos written in 73 talks about Staldt putting pressure on Killian.


43 posted on 09/11/2004 5:03:28 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: YOUGOTIT

"The J on the signature of the Aug 72 memo is not the same as the J on the June 73 memo. Or am I seeing things?"

No you are not seeing things. Dan Rather may be seeing things--like a pink slip.


44 posted on 09/11/2004 5:04:40 PM PDT by charleston1
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To: GoLightly

OK Thanks:)


45 posted on 09/11/2004 5:08:01 PM PDT by moonman
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To: charleston1
"I certainly am enjoying it and I must admit I am quite impressed with the intelligence level shown here."

There are probably some topics and threads you should avoid so you can retain that impression.

46 posted on 09/11/2004 5:08:15 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: NavySEAL F-16

Nothing about it is in military style. I clicked the link, was able to see the first document for a few seconds. Then things glitch out. Can't get link to work right now.
If this is a joke, cool.
If not, forger is inept at best an idiot at worst.


47 posted on 09/11/2004 5:09:28 PM PDT by MagnumRancid (I need a new screen name - its left over from my Doom/Quake playing days.)
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Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: CWOJackson

Me too. Now that CBS knows how to make the fakes, they can make plenty. This should be fun.


49 posted on 09/11/2004 5:10:30 PM PDT by snooker
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To: sitetest

by the way guys, the new June 24th memo has centered text with a superscript th in the squadron name. Based on the work the shade of days guy did, this could be pretty decisive. The spacing would be different for a typewriter and would be harder to center. Of course word with center this perfectly and if this new memo matches up to word that is really going to go a long way towards once and for all saying the selectric composer couldn't have done these.


50 posted on 09/11/2004 5:12:45 PM PDT by killbuckner
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