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Could forged Memos be a diversion?

Posted on 09/14/2004 9:11:12 AM PDT by HamiltonJay

There are Reports that the Swift Boat Vets have new evidence that prove Kerry lied, primarily old Military documents.

Now given the fact that the BUSH docs have been proven to be forgeries by anyone with a few brain cells firing.. yet CBS refuses to back off of them, keeping it in the headlines... I am starting to wonder.

Is the purpose of the 60 Min. II report not so much to bash Bush, but to be used as an undermining of these new documents?

After all its not a hard argument, well the last batch were fake, why should we believe these suddenly new found docs any more than the ones that attacked Bush?

This is the only logical reason I can come up with for Rather and CBS to continue to carry water on these obvious fakes is so that they can be used as a counter argument against any new documents that may come to life attacking Kerry.

Just something to chew on.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: cbs; forged; kerry; memos
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1 posted on 09/14/2004 9:11:13 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay

Nope


2 posted on 09/14/2004 9:12:17 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Dan Rather don't need no stinkin facts, he is a journalist and therefore above reproach.)
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To: HamiltonJay

I don't think so. First, they didn't think that they'd be caught trying to pawn off the fake documents. Second, how could they have known that the Swift Boat Vets were going to produce new Kerry documents a week later?


3 posted on 09/14/2004 9:14:27 AM PDT by Jaysun (The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action)
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To: HamiltonJay
An interesting theory but I think the dots are way too far apart to connect.

The problem with the Rather Forgeries is that they are easily shown to be phony. The Swiftboat Vets will not offer up any documentation that is not provably true. That's just there M.O. As far as I know, none of O'Neill and company's claims have been discredited.

4 posted on 09/14/2004 9:15:25 AM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: HamiltonJay

No.

The new SBVFT docs are straight from the US Navy Archives.
The AP has them too. If they can be spun, the Kerry Nuance
Team will spin them. But their authenticity won't be
questioned.

However, sure, anything from the DNC, Kerry camp and
Pravda Press will be deeply scrutinized. With the
Bush-AWOL flop and Kitty Kelly flush, any "October
Surprise" against Bush now has much higher standards
to meet.


5 posted on 09/14/2004 9:16:48 AM PDT by Boundless
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To: HamiltonJay

There is no way that this is some bank shot intended to affect other documents that might be coming down the pike. This was a direct assault on Bush for the purpose of discrediting Bush.


6 posted on 09/14/2004 9:19:14 AM PDT by Nick Danger (www.swiftvets.com www.wintersoldier.com www.kerrylied.com)
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To: HamiltonJay

Dems aren't that bright. Devious? Yes. Bright? No!!!


7 posted on 09/14/2004 9:19:40 AM PDT by xkaydet65 (" You have never tasted freedom my friend, else you would know, it is purchased not with gold, but w)
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To: InterceptPoint

Exactly, they were obvious and easily detected forgeries, and they are Kept in the headlines not so much by Bloggers attacking them, but by CBS and Rather refusing to admit they are fakes.... IF CBS admitted they were fakes, story would turn to who gave them to CBS... but would not be so much fresh blood in the water.

Would the Dems know that other docs existed out there that could hurt their candidate? Surely they have to know, as they know not all of Kerry's records have been released. So release some blatant forgeries... keep them in peoples consciousness and when more "old" documents show up making Kerry look bad, the argument about just more fakes (whether true or not) is one that will exist in folks minds...

It does not matter what the truth was, this "perception" and spin can be used.


8 posted on 09/14/2004 9:20:02 AM PDT by HamiltonJay ("You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.")
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To: HamiltonJay

That's twisted logic.
CBS states the documents are real, even though they have been proven forgeries.
The very first time forged military documents ever entered the mainstream realm was with this story.
If this story had never come out in the media, the idea that Kerry had forged military documents would be viewed as preposterous and ignored.
CBS memos inadvertently gives credibility to SBVT.
It's the ultimate perfect storm.
I, for one, ignored the Kerry's false military records threads until this one came out first, and I'm a die-hard partisan.


9 posted on 09/14/2004 9:21:00 AM PDT by mabelkitty (Watch for a CBS employee in a trench coat going by DeepWord.....)
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To: HamiltonJay

Ah, the old "shoot myself in the foot so the other guy doesn't shoot me" trick.
Nah.


10 posted on 09/14/2004 9:21:02 AM PDT by gutshot
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To: HamiltonJay

It is a diversion but not a deliberate diversion. Stop looking the gift horse in the mouth.

If Kerry blew his brains out some here would be looking for a RAT trick.


11 posted on 09/14/2004 9:22:11 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (My Father was 10x the hero John Fraud Kerry is.)
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To: HamiltonJay

If this is a pre-emptive defense, it has failed because this story has sucked the air out of the Kerry Campaign. I don't think that there's enough time (till election day) to do CPR.


12 posted on 09/14/2004 9:24:33 AM PDT by Tallguy (If the Kerry campaign implodes any further, they'll reach the point of "singularity" by election day)
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To: HamiltonJay

I don't think it's specifically designed to counter the Swiftboat Vets. I DO think the new focus on Bush's National Guard service is an attempt to prevent the Swiftboat Vets from gaining traction.

Kerry has stated many times the non-sequitur that if the Swift Boat Vets are going to question his Vietnam service, then we need to go after Bush's Guard service.

I don't doubt that the new emphasis on Bush's Guard record is a result of Kerry's campaign staff shakeup and bringing in attack dogs like Carville and Begala. However, it's not timed around a specific Swift Boat Vet attack. It's designed to take Vietnam off the table entirely in the campaign.


13 posted on 09/14/2004 9:24:36 AM PDT by VisualizeSmallerGovernment (Question Liberal Authority)
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To: HamiltonJay

No, we were supposed to buy the memos without question thus scoring a big hit against Bush. Every day these memos are the talk Kerry is incapable of scoring hits on Bush, since he's the guy behind he needs to score hits. Bush doesn't need to score hits so something like this works well, just put off the Swifties until after this thing dies down.


14 posted on 09/14/2004 9:25:52 AM PDT by discostu (That which does not make me stronger kills me)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
If Kerry blew his brains out some here would be looking for a RAT trick.

Hillary Clinton finally offs the Frenchurian Candidate.

15 posted on 09/14/2004 9:26:12 AM PDT by VisualizeSmallerGovernment (Question Liberal Authority)
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To: HamiltonJay

No. Rather is just an idiot.


16 posted on 09/14/2004 9:26:32 AM PDT by RichardW
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To: justshutupandtakeit
"If Kerry blew his brains out...."

Do you have a better explanation as to what happened to them?

17 posted on 09/14/2004 9:26:55 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack ("We deal in hard calibers and hot lead." - Roland Deschaines)
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To: HamiltonJay
This is the only logical reason I can come up with for Rather and CBS to continue to carry water on these obvious fakes is so that they can be used as a counter argument against any new documents that may come to life attacking Kerry.

I can think of other reasons. The one you posit will surely be attempted by the stupid DEM talking heads, but it's such a lame comparison that nobody will take it.

18 posted on 09/14/2004 9:26:57 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: HamiltonJay
Tis a thought, but you're crediting the DNC and fellow travelers with too much brainpower, IMO.

In spite of the brave front that The Dan and his gang are showing, circling the wagons, we can be sure that they're all puking from stress in the toilet over Rathergate.

19 posted on 09/14/2004 9:28:21 AM PDT by Ciexyz ("FR, best viewed with a budgie on hand".)
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To: HamiltonJay

Yes, it is a diversion.

You are to view Kerry's questionable record as a wash since lies have been made up about Bush.

Also Kerry has NO VISION so it takes the pressure off of him to create a VISION that he would have to stick to. All Kerry does is CRITICISE Bush because he has NO VISION and if he does, he doesn't want YOU to know what it is.


20 posted on 09/14/2004 9:28:46 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: HamiltonJay

Actually, that's what I've been saying for a while. I don't think that CBS released them for that purpose, but I think that the Kerry campaign passed them on for that reason. The purpose was to fill the airwaves with so much garbage that when the Kerry fraud was exposed, the voters would just yawn.


21 posted on 09/14/2004 9:29:13 AM PDT by Eva
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To: InterceptPoint

When's the next Swift Boat ad?

I hear they are really going to clobber Kerry and reference GENUINE documents recently made available.


22 posted on 09/14/2004 9:29:45 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: HamiltonJay

I was just thinking something similar this morning. To date, Bush has not even remotely made his campaign about his or Kerry's military service. Something I think the Kerry camp has desperately wanted and frankly could care less how phony the documents looked. If new revelations are coming out about Kerry, then it will look like tit-for-tat, thus creating an illusion that both parties are still fighting the Vietnam war.


23 posted on 09/14/2004 9:30:08 AM PDT by Toespi
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To: HamiltonJay

I should add that this flood of garbage is an attempt to convince the voters that this is all about somehting that happened thirty years ago, and that they should all move on, much like the impeachment was all about sex.


24 posted on 09/14/2004 9:31:24 AM PDT by Eva
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To: discostu

That is true.
Yesterday they had the whole campaing literature/Air Force thing that was trumpted at all the usual places, and it got debunked and never even made it on television.
This is what happens when you have anti-Military people trying to smear the military - they don't have enough information to pull it off.


25 posted on 09/14/2004 9:31:27 AM PDT by mabelkitty (Watch for a CBS employee in a trench coat going by DeepWord.....)
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To: HamiltonJay

I agree with you. Politically aware people like us know what's going on, but this is all about Joe Six-Pack and Soccer moms, who don't really pay attention to politics. Never underestimate the stupidity of the American people who voted for Clinton twice.

IMHO they are trying to muddy the waters, so that they say, "both sides do dirty tricks, therefore I will ignore all of this stuff, from Rather AND from the Swifties." Who benefits from this tradeoff? Kerry.


26 posted on 09/14/2004 9:32:04 AM PDT by dfwgator (It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military.)
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To: Joe 6-pack

He never had any to start with?


27 posted on 09/14/2004 9:33:07 AM PDT by dcwusmc ("The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: Joe 6-pack

I wasn't referring to you in my post, (I figured you knew that, but I wanted to make sure ;))


28 posted on 09/14/2004 9:33:28 AM PDT by dfwgator (It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military.)
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To: HamiltonJay

No, CBS and Danny have their *** in a crack. Checkmate.


29 posted on 09/14/2004 9:34:17 AM PDT by SerpentDove (You can curse the darkness, or you can light a candle. Me, I like cursing the darkness.)
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To: HamiltonJay
I think it is more likely that:

Dan Rather hates GWB so much he was not thinking clearly when the DNC operatives told him the fakes were fool proof and Dan thought his oh so elite status as a leader of the always accurate main stream media would never allow the story to be questioned.

30 posted on 09/14/2004 9:34:23 AM PDT by JIM O
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To: Joe 6-pack

"If Kerry blew his brains out...."
Do you have a better explanation as to what happened to them?

Don't be so harsh. Unlike the forged national guard documents, we do know that Kerry COULD blow that hard.


31 posted on 09/14/2004 9:35:29 AM PDT by labard1
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To: Jaysun

Plus...why drag Dan Rather down? Dan's whole career is simply going down the drain...and I doubt that Dan is that stupid.


32 posted on 09/14/2004 9:36:42 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: Joe 6-pack

I always put it down to the effects of being a rich bitch's poodle.


33 posted on 09/14/2004 9:42:00 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (My Father was 10x the hero John Fraud Kerry is.)
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To: nmh
All the Kerry campaign does is criticize, condemn, and complain (CCC).

Watch people in everyday life who do this, and notice that in a relatively short period of time, other people begin to avoid such a person. The only people who will hang with a CCC person are other CCC people. But only if they are allowed to CCC, too. CCC people want a CCC dialog, not a perpetual CCC monologue from one person.

This is one of the basic reasons Kerry will not be elected president. He's a CCC person.

34 posted on 09/14/2004 9:43:20 AM PDT by savedbygrace
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To: mabelkitty

I'm getting curiouser and curiouser about this thing. Prior to yesterday I was writing this off as a normal 60 Minutes screw up, they've done poor research before and doubtless will again. But the way to handle normal screw ups is to apologize and move on, that keeps the story from getting legs and lets it die a normal newscycle death.

Then Dan defended it Friday. OK, not part of the normal script but still it should wind down this week and be forgotten by next week, still in line for a normal newscycle death.

Then Dan defended it MONDAY! He brought the story into the new week, presented new "defenses", according to the normal news cycle pattern that makes this story fair game through NEXT Friday (in general stories are good through the week after the last interesting thing that happened). Now the rule of thumb in the world of scandals is that it's not the scandal that gets you, it's the coverup; because when people try to cover something up they start being stupid, doing things they wouldn't do normally. Dan has been around the block too often for me to think he doesn't know the "through next week" rule, which means he just did something stupid, something he wouldn't normally do. So this could be deeper than I thought.


35 posted on 09/14/2004 9:48:58 AM PDT by discostu (That which does not make me stronger kills me)
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To: HamiltonJay

depends on if these are OFFICIAL MILIRATY DOCUMENTS, the memo's Dan Rather used were NOT OFFICIAL MILITARY DOCUMENTS


36 posted on 09/14/2004 9:49:25 AM PDT by FesterUSMC
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To: HamiltonJay
After all its not a hard argument, well the last batch were fake, why should we believe these suddenly new found docs any more than the ones that attacked Bush?

Only if the documents are printed in proportional, superscripted fonts typed by President Ford.

37 posted on 09/14/2004 9:49:32 AM PDT by AndrewC (I also think that Carthage should be destroyed. - Cato)
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To: HamiltonJay

bump


38 posted on 09/14/2004 9:50:22 AM PDT by foreverfree
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To: HamiltonJay

if it's a diversion, it's the dumbest diversion in history.


39 posted on 09/14/2004 9:50:58 AM PDT by smonk
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To: discostu

When he mouthed off to CNN, he broke it off on Viacom.
For someone who is supposedly a hardened news guy with experience in the shoving-a-microphone-in-the-bad-guy's-face, he blundered big time.
"Unimpeachable source" who won't give him the originals.
I, too, was very surprised he addressed it on Monday.
I think they are going to cave on this. I really do.
Dan's ego got in the way of "No Comment".


40 posted on 09/14/2004 9:54:54 AM PDT by mabelkitty (Watch for a CBS employee in a trench coat going by DeepWord.....)
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To: smonk
Discrediting the MSM prior to Hillary's october surprise has to be a good thing.

She may break whatever it is with only days to rip it apart; blogs and FR need to be ready to set upon her.

41 posted on 09/14/2004 9:55:08 AM PDT by txhurl
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To: mabelkitty

I also think that since Dan addressed this on Monday, he no longer has the protection of Viacom, and this really is his blunder hanging on his neck, and it is going to be up to him on whether he sinks or not.


42 posted on 09/14/2004 9:56:32 AM PDT by mabelkitty (Watch for a CBS employee in a trench coat going by DeepWord.....)
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To: mabelkitty

Ego is the other reason people go stupid. And Dan's got plenty of that. Either way this turned a lot more interesting at 6:30 EDT yesterday.


43 posted on 09/14/2004 9:56:52 AM PDT by discostu (That which does not make me stronger kills me)
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To: HamiltonJay

I've been thinking the same thing. The docs are so obviously fake that there must be some reason to stick with it. It's almost like they made it obvious they were fake that they wanted to be found out.

That reason is still coming. IMO.


44 posted on 09/14/2004 9:59:19 AM PDT by Mr Cobol (Berry AuH2O464 and conservative ever since!)
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To: HamiltonJay

Simple math:

Swiftvets = Truth

Vietnam Vets = Truth

Memos = Fake

You can try to make the truth false but in the end you are left with only the truth. You can try to make something false true but in the end you are left with something false.

DNC = Failure.


45 posted on 09/14/2004 10:02:22 AM PDT by tomnbeverly (Do not let the UN make decisions for the protection of the United States... VOTE for George W. Bush)
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To: savedbygrace

#34 you are soooo RIGHT!

I had not thought of it that way.

Thanks!


46 posted on 09/14/2004 10:05:28 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: HamiltonJay

Well, i think that the issue which the fake docs where supposed to bring up may in fact have been an attempt at a diversion.

the fact that the dnc have an ad ready, the kelley book about bush and drugs (with guess apperence by barnes apparently).. it all adds up to media collusion with the kerry campaign.

i hope that drudge posts those docs as a main headline and maybe rush and sean can pick up on it.


47 posted on 09/14/2004 10:05:43 AM PDT by BoBToMatoE
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To: HamiltonJay
why should we believe these suddenly new found docs any more than the ones that attacked Bush?

Um...because they can't be perfectly duplicated with no effort in MS Word?

48 posted on 09/14/2004 10:09:11 AM PDT by ctdonath2
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: nmh

Pass it on.


50 posted on 09/14/2004 10:10:42 AM PDT by savedbygrace
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