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With Ban Lifted, Some Gun Shoppers Find Lower Prices
NY Times ^ | September 16, 2004 | FOX BUTTERFIELD

Posted on 09/16/2004 12:55:38 AM PDT by Pharmboy

Totally Awesome Guns and Range in West Valley City, Utah, has been hopping this week with customers trying to buy guns that were illegal until the 10-year-old ban on assault weapons expired Monday.

One man bought all 15 of the Colt M-4 rifles that the store's general manager, Stephen Palano, had in stock. The M-4 is a semiautomatic version of the weapon used by American Special Forces and paratroopers. Until Congress allowed the assault weapon ban to lapse, the gun could be sold in the United States only to law enforcement agencies.

Andy Risbeck was disappointed to enter the store and find the M-4's sold out. He already owns an assault-style weapon - a rifle with a pistol grip and a high-capacity magazine - but because of the ban, his gun is missing a few military features, like a bayonet attachment, so now he wants the authentic weapon.

"It's more of a novelty thing," Mr. Risbeck said of his motivation. "I can play with all these different toys now and not get in trouble."

But the fervent interest appeared limited, as many gun stores across the nation reported little unusual activity after the ban's expiration.

Don Davis, the owner of Don's Guns in Indianapolis, the largest independently owned gun shop in the country, said, "No one has come in and asked about assault weapons."

The reason, Mr. Davis said, is that guns very similar to those banned remained readily available. "People have already got whatever they want; these guns were always for sale," he said.

Under the 1994 law, assault weapons already in circulation could continue to be sold. New guns with a large-capacity magazine accommodating more than 10 bullets could not have more than two combat-style features, including pistol grips for faster firing, a flash suppressor, a collapsible stock or a bayonet mount.

Mr. Davis called these "cosmetic changes that didn't do anything to change a gun's functioning."

Still, on Tuesday, Mr. Davis began making one adjustment because of the ban's expiration. He marked down the price of two Calico rifles that had been manufactured before the ban. One had a magazine with a 50-shot capacity; the other had a 100-shot capacity.

Mr. Davis reduced the price of each by $500, making them $1,000 to $1,200, "because I figure Calico sooner or later will now bring them back into production," increasing the supply.

Most gun store employees tended to agree with Mr. Davis that the end of the ban would lead to lower prices of the assault weapons that were sold during the ban and of high-capacity magazines long coveted by collectors and other gun enthusiasts.

Steve Baxter, the manager of American Classic Marksman, a gun shop and firing range in Norcross, Ga., outside Atlanta, said, "There is only one thing that changes: the price of the stuff."

Guns made before the ban carried a premium. Customers had to pay as much as $2,000 for a Colt AR-15, the civilian version of the military's M-16 rifle, Mr. Baxter said. But guns made during the ban that had certain restrictions were only $700 to $800.

"I've got a gun at home I paid $1,600 for," he said. "It's worth $800 now, thank you very much."

Similarly, Tim Adams, vice president of Kittery Trading Post in Kittery, Me., said, "We only had a few people inquiring" about assault weapons since the ban was lifted.

"The majority of people see the ban for what it was, a largely cosmetic law, one that had no discernable effect on crime," Mr. Adams said.

The only real change from the ban's expiration, he said, will be a drop in the price of those guns with all the features made before the ban. "It's natural supply and demand," Mr. Adams said.

Still, Bernie Esguerra, owner of Bernie's Sports Center in Lilborn, Ga., another Atlanta suburb, said he had a few customers who had put down deposits in advance of the ban's expiration on high-capacity magazines for Glock pistols. Those magazines could be legally purchased and attached to their handguns starting Monday.

Mr. Esguerra also had a few customers who came in this week to buy 100-round magazines for their AR-15 rifles. Such large magazines were banned under the 1994 law.

"Most of these people are law-abiding citizens," Mr. Esguerra said. "They're not using them to kill people, but for an investment and to target shoot."

The expiration of the federal ban on assault weapons does not change the rules in seven states. New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland, California and Hawaii have their own bans on assault weapons.

On Monday, California went a step further when Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed a law making California the first state to ban 50-caliber sniper rifles. These rifles, which fire an armor-piercing bullet the same size as the military's 50-caliber machine gun, are accurate up to a mile.

They can shoot down airplanes or helicopters, and according to testimony in federal district court in New York, 25 of them were bought in the United States by terrorists and shipped to Osama bin Laden before the United States invaded Afghanistan to root out Al Qaeda.

Republicans in the House of Representatives are trying to capitalize on the expiration of the assault weapons ban and are preparing to vote on a bill that would repeal a ban on handguns in Washington. Representative Mark Souder, Republican of Indiana, said House Republican leaders told him they would allow a vote on his bill to remove the ban on handguns in the nation's capital before the Nov. 2 presidential election.

A repeal of that ban, originally enacted by the Washington City Council in 1976, has been a longtime goal of the National Rifle Association.

Ariel Hart contributed reporting from Atlanta for this article, Melissa Sanford from Utah and Kate Zezima from Boston.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: assaultrifles; awb; bang; banglist; guns; secondamendment
Lower gun prices: something all good Americans can get behind...
1 posted on 09/16/2004 12:55:39 AM PDT by Pharmboy
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To: Joe Brower

Ping...BANG!


2 posted on 09/16/2004 1:06:31 AM PDT by Pharmboy (History's greatest agent for freedom: The US Armed Forces)
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To: Pharmboy

My AK-74 and Mr Nasty Streetsweeper are on the way...


3 posted on 09/16/2004 1:07:35 AM PDT by clee1 (Islam is a deadly plague; liberalism is the AIDS virus that prevents us from defending ourselves.)
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To: Pharmboy

Maybe M1a's and M14's will come down! There will be some heavy competition for awhile.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/M14.htm


4 posted on 09/16/2004 1:09:20 AM PDT by claudiustg (Go Sharon! Go Bush!)
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To: Pharmboy

The Ebay for guns.

http://www.gunbroker.com


5 posted on 09/16/2004 1:27:31 AM PDT by Shellback Chuck (Olongapo hookers are more truthful than Kerry)
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To: Pharmboy

The intital Pres Bush 1 ban is still in effect...the rules regarding the importation of military look alikes is still in effect...you cant buy any of the already banned firearms...

The so called Assault weapon ban really only bans pistol grips, flash suppressors, bayonet lugs, and magazines that held over ten rounds...

However if a gun is manufactured in the USA then it will be legal to own with all its cosmetic
features...jobs for Americans

Great news for collecters and action target shooters..

Unless you live in a state where your governor is a dem or a RINO

imo


6 posted on 09/16/2004 1:57:08 AM PDT by joesnuffy ( "Two Heads Are Better Than One"...."Unless They're On The Same Person" -Andy Sipowicz)
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To: Pharmboy

"25 of them were bought in the United States by terrorists and shipped to Osama bin Laden before the United States invaded Afghanistan to root out Al Qaeda."


That's odd, last I heard from friends over there, the US was using .50 cal. rifles for plinking Jihadiis at night using night sights.

"Gopher guns" was the very unofficial name for them because the gophers come out of the holes (caves) at night - and they never return. ;)

Lest the Left get it's nappies all twisted, perhaps we should remind them that we have radar systems in use for years which can recognize an incoming bullet, RPG, mortar, etc.

The system then computes the source from the trajectory and fires back at the source before the incoming object even lands.

Any lurking Lefties still want to agonize over on the Jihadi with the .50 cal.? Or are they just looking for an excuse to ban a weapon with military utility?

Last time I checked, the Second Amendment refered to weapons, not "sporting guns". The Founders wanted military superiority to lie in the hands of the citizens, not the government. On that basis, look for the Kalifornia .50 Kalibre Ban to be overturned.

As the Appelate Court in the case of Timothy Emerson stated, the Constitution addresses military weapons, not "sporting" weapons. That "sporting" catagory is a recent liberal invention. Previously, it was accepted that citizens could own crew served weapons (cannons) and military vessels (privateers).

Make terrorists nervious - BRING BACK LETTERS OF MARQUE!!


7 posted on 09/16/2004 2:46:37 AM PDT by GladesGuru
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To: Pharmboy

I want a street sweeper.


8 posted on 09/16/2004 3:10:23 AM PDT by Dick Vomer (liberals suck......... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.)
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To: Pharmboy
I bought a RRA AR15 varmint model earlier this year, so the value shouldn't drop that much (to specialized a model). I am hoping to get an EVIL BLACK GUN upper sometime soon. Shotgun news has a few for around $300. Now if I can only convince my bride to be....
9 posted on 09/16/2004 5:13:23 AM PDT by redgolum
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To: Pharmboy
This thread has just added to the FreeRepublic "bang list" (firearms interest list) by adding the keyword "banglist".

Any time a firearms-related thread is created on FreeRepublic, please be sure to add the "banglist" keyword to it so that interested FReepers don't miss it.

Let Freedom Ring,

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

10 posted on 09/16/2004 6:16:15 AM PDT by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism.)
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To: Pharmboy; Eaker; RikaStrom

Good news ping.


11 posted on 09/16/2004 6:19:16 AM PDT by humblegunner
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To: redgolum
Now if I can only convince my bride to be....

Make it a pre-nutial condition...

12 posted on 09/16/2004 9:57:38 AM PDT by packrat01 (Politics:The ability to say "Islam is a religion of peace" while seeking destruction of Islamist Ter)
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To: packrat01
Make it a pre-nutial condition...

Is that like pre-neutered?

13 posted on 09/16/2004 10:21:19 AM PDT by Monitor (Gun control isn't about guns; it's about control.)
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To: Pharmboy

Ah hmmm, the FR rule is that *every* thread on guns or girls must have pics...

Lucky for you I came along before the mods caught you!

The AWB Has Expired - Gun Owners Have Won Again For All Americans!

14 posted on 09/16/2004 10:25:38 AM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Pharmboy
Ten-round .40 cal magazines for my Walther P99 were $35 apiece, and probably still are.

Yesterday I stopped into a police supply store and bought their three remaining Walther P99 hi-cap (12 whole rounds!) .40 cal magazines for $30 apiece - $5 less than the 10 rounders.

15 posted on 09/16/2004 10:29:10 AM PDT by Monitor (Gun control isn't about guns; it's about control.)
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To: Monitor
Is that like pre-neutered?

Spell it any way you like...

16 posted on 09/16/2004 10:58:13 AM PDT by packrat01 (Politics:The ability to say "Islam is a religion of peace" while seeking destruction of Islamist Ter)
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To: Eaker; humblegunner; TexasCowboy

Bang


17 posted on 09/16/2004 11:00:40 AM PDT by RikaStrom (Quixotic derived from Don Quixote who if he was reincarnated would be John "Quit already" Querry)
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To: Pharmboy
according to testimony in federal district court in New York, 25 of them were bought in the United States by terrorists and shipped to Osama bin Laden before the United States invaded Afghanistan to root out Al Qaeda

I have a hard time believing this. There's far more interesting stuff getting sold abroad, and it doesn't come with the hassle of US gun laws or trying to get it out of the country.
18 posted on 09/16/2004 11:09:06 AM PDT by July 4th (You need to click "Abstimmen")
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To: Dick Vomer

I like one too, but Street Sweepers have been classifed as Destructive Devices and are not made legal for ownership by the expiration of the AWB.


19 posted on 09/16/2004 11:13:26 AM PDT by kildak
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To: Southack
Another ugly gun .........




20 posted on 09/16/2004 11:47:10 AM PDT by Eaker ("He's the kind of guy who would fight a rattlesnake and give the snake a two-bite head start.")
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To: RikaStrom; Eaker; Squantos; humblegunner
"These rifles, which fire an armor-piercing bullet the same size as the military's 50-caliber machine gun, are accurate up to a mile.

Yep! Shore is!

With special ammo, many months of specialized training and calculations of MET and ENV (air temperature, wind velocity and direction, barometric pressure, slant angle to the target, temperature of the ammunition and spin drift).
The only military in the world who offers the training necessary for extreme range shooting is the US.

Common 650 grain ball ammo like I shoot goes transonic at 1400 meters, way short of one mile, and accuracy is a fantasy.

"They can shoot down airplanes or helicopters,"

Yep! Shore can!

If the terrorists can make the calculations required for the changing MET and ENV and apply those changes to their scope before the airliner, flying at 800 mph, or the helicopter, flying at 150 mph, becomes a dot in the sky.
Also assuming that the rounds they fire will still be in supersonic travel in order to detonate the incendiary round containing the RDX explosive.

GET REAL, NEW YORK SLIMES!

21 posted on 09/16/2004 12:00:03 PM PDT by TexasCowboy (COB1)
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To: TexasCowboy; t_skoz

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1216050/posts?page=14#14

T_skoz is bitter....:o)

Stay safe !


22 posted on 09/16/2004 12:10:28 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. )
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To: kildak; Dick Vomer


23 posted on 09/16/2004 12:14:55 PM PDT by TexasCowboy (COB1)
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To: Eaker

I've GOT to shoot that thing!


24 posted on 09/16/2004 12:17:14 PM PDT by TexasCowboy (COB1)
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To: Squantos
"T_skoz is bitter....:o)"

Well, I'm kind of bitter, too!

Tain't fair! I'm droolin'!

25 posted on 09/16/2004 12:20:51 PM PDT by TexasCowboy (COB1)
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To: Southack
Back atcha, Southack!

I wonder where I'm gonna mount the bayonet lug?

26 posted on 09/16/2004 12:24:44 PM PDT by TexasCowboy (COB1)
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To: TexasCowboy

Do you have a pair of blue monster booties??


27 posted on 09/16/2004 12:30:52 PM PDT by Eaker ("He's the kind of guy who would fight a rattlesnake and give the snake a two-bite head start.")
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To: Eaker
I'm looking on the Web as we speak.

Just wouldn't be right without them.

28 posted on 09/16/2004 12:40:07 PM PDT by TexasCowboy (COB1)
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To: TexasCowboy; RikaStrom; TheMom; Eaker; Flyer; Squantos
"These rifles, which fire an armor-piercing bullet the same size as the military's 50-caliber machine gun, are accurate up to a mile.

Aw, heck, TC... that .50 is a girl's gun.. I've seen the Texas FReeper Babes
fire that thing and giggle about it.. lots of times.
The NYT must be misinformed. ;-)

29 posted on 09/16/2004 4:22:04 PM PDT by humblegunner
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To: Pharmboy
Wow, the NYT interviewed Don "I don't want to make any money; I just love to sell guns... hehehe" Davis?

I didn't think Don was that big anymore. He's closed most of his store and ranges here in Indy.

30 posted on 09/16/2004 4:27:59 PM PDT by AFreeBird (your mileage may vary)
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To: humblegunner; RikaStrom
"The NYT must be misinformed. ;-)"

If there's anything that the NYT would be more afraid of doing than shooting the .50, it would be being around women like Rika and the FReeper babes!
They pee in their pants at the thought of either one!

31 posted on 09/16/2004 4:35:13 PM PDT by TexasCowboy (COB1)
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To: TexasCowboy; humblegunner

Aww, you're just a Sweetie COB!

I love that .50. It's soooo... big. ;-)


32 posted on 09/16/2004 4:52:03 PM PDT by RikaStrom (Quixotic derived from Don Quixote who if he was reincarnated would be John "Quit already" Querry)
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To: RikaStrom
"Aww, you're just a Sweetie COB!

It's soooo... big. ;-)"

Uhhh.........thanks..

33 posted on 09/16/2004 5:40:46 PM PDT by TexasCowboy (COB1)
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To: Joe Brower

Will do, Joe.


34 posted on 09/16/2004 9:10:08 PM PDT by Pharmboy (History's greatest agent for freedom: The US Armed Forces)
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To: Pharmboy

"New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland, California and Hawaii have their own bans on assault weapons."

Maryland has an assault weapons ban?


35 posted on 09/16/2004 9:13:19 PM PDT by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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