Posted on 09/16/2004 1:32:40 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
Chechnya in the modern Russia was never denied any rights and had autonomy
1990: Russia shows interest in Azerbaijan oil and the pipeline in Chechnya.
1991: The fall of the Soviet Union allows Georgia, Latvia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Tajikstan and Chechnya to declare independence. Russia refuses to allow Chechnya independence.
1992: Chechnya separated from fellow Muslim province Ingushetia.
1994 November: Chechnya’s president Dadaev declares independence. Russia’s attack to keep Chechnya with 40,000 troops coincides with Boris Yeltsin’s reelection.
1994 December: Yeltsin decides to invade Chechnya again after embarrassing defeat in November.
1995: Peace treaty signed but sporadic fighting continued.
1996: Dudaev killed. Cease-fire ended fighting.
1997: Peace treaty signed.
1999 August: Radical Muslims stage uprisings in neighboring Dagestan. September
1999: Russia declares full scale war in Chechnya.
1999 November: In effort to surround capitol Grozny, Russian captures neighboring cities.
2000 February: Russia claims it captured Grozny, while Chechen forces flee to Southwest portion of country.
2000 June: Russia appoints Islamic cleric Ashmed Kadyrov to head the separatist state. Kadyrov supported Russian invasion and disliked former Chechen president Maskhadov. Later Russia removes 3/4 of forces from Chechnya.
Autonomy is not independence, which is what they've been fighting for eversince Czarist Russia invaded.
The terrible thing (aside from the loss of innocent life) from the Beslan massacre is now NO Russian leader of whatever stripe can advocate pulling out of Chechnya, for (at least) 10-20 years. And so the slaughter will continue.
"Russian cause even though the execution of the war is sloppy."
My nomination for understatement of the day. :-)
Want to know why? Because those were states within the USSR not autonomous regions within those states. Also under the USSR's constitution they had a right to leave. Yes it was never meant to be taken seriously but Yeltsin used it as a legal tool to break up the USSR. If the Chechens can break free then the Russians can bring parts of the Ukraine like the Crimea back into Russia and the Russians in the Baltics can form breakaway states based on ethnicity. Lastly Chechnya has been part of Russia proper since before most States were in the Union.
Wanting independence for independence sake is not a valid reason. If all rights are granted then the cause is false.
Also Chechnya was granted defacto independence and showed it did not deserve it.
The Russian cause IS JUST even though the execution of the war is sloppy.
Tough cookies to the invalid Chechen cause.
Because those were states within the USSR not autonomous regions within those states.
And how did they get into the USSR?
Also under the USSR's constitution they had a right to leave.
Riiight!
And how did they get into the USSR?
Some were part of the Russian empire for centuries. and don't riiiiiiiiiiiiiight to me - I wrote that the USSR constitution was there for show purposes only. Yeltsin's trick to break up the USSR was to use the USSR's phoney constitution as if it was real to break it up.
This is basic History channel stuff - you did not know it?
The only thing Putin is worthy of is recognizing that he is nothing but a Soviet dictator in the making with an image team...and a few pathetic cheerleaders.
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Bush: Putin's efforts to fight terror could harm democracy
HERALD WIRE SERVICES WASHINGTON - President Bush expressed concern Wednesday that Russian President Vladimir Putin's proposed consolidation of political power in the wake of a deadly hostage siege in Beslan could undermine democracy in Russia. Bush used an address during a Hispanic Heritage Month ceremony at the White House to offer his first response to Putin's plan to combat terrorism in his country by centralizing authority. Putin would get the power to nominate regional governors, and the full lower house of parliament would be elected from party ballots. That could effectively exclude many Putin opponents from parliament. Bush also took the opportunity to reach out to an important election-year constituency by talking up the benefits to minorities of his education and homeownership agenda. "I'm proud of your heritage, I'm proud of the ancestry, I'm proud to call Latinos Americans and I'm proud to be your president," Bush said. Bush treaded gingerly on the subject of Putin's proposal, saying, "As governments fight the enemies of democracy, they must uphold the principles of democracy." Putin has proposed fighting terrorism in his country by ending popular vote elections in the 89 regions and establishing a system in which candidates would be selected by the president and approved by regional assemblies. "I am . . . concerned about the decisions that are being made in Russia that could undermine democracy in Russia," Bush said. "Great countries, great democracies have a balance of power between central government and local governments, a balance of power within central governments between the executive branch and the legislative and the judicial branch." |
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Bush: Putin's efforts to fight terror could harm democracy
HERALD WIRE SERVICES WASHINGTON - President Bush expressed concern Wednesday that Russian President Vladimir Putin's proposed consolidation of political power in the wake of a deadly hostage siege in Beslan could undermine democracy in Russia. Bush used an address during a Hispanic Heritage Month ceremony at the White House to offer his first response to Putin's plan to combat terrorism in his country by centralizing authority. Putin would get the power to nominate regional governors, and the full lower house of parliament would be elected from party ballots. That could effectively exclude many Putin opponents from parliament. Bush also took the opportunity to reach out to an important election-year constituency by talking up the benefits to minorities of his education and homeownership agenda. "I'm proud of your heritage, I'm proud of the ancestry, I'm proud to call Latinos Americans and I'm proud to be your president," Bush said. Bush treaded gingerly on the subject of Putin's proposal, saying, "As governments fight the enemies of democracy, they must uphold the principles of democracy." Putin has proposed fighting terrorism in his country by ending popular vote elections in the 89 regions and establishing a system in which candidates would be selected by the president and approved by regional assemblies. "I am . . . concerned about the decisions that are being made in Russia that could undermine democracy in Russia," Bush said. "Great countries, great democracies have a balance of power between central government and local governments, a balance of power within central governments between the executive branch and the legislative and the judicial branch." |
Putin blames the current situation in Russia to the fall of the Soviet Union, and his government today looks more like the old Soviet Union than it did on the day he took office, after these new measures are implememented, it will resemble it even more.
Now, maybe you don't want to call it communism, but if it walks like a duck...
Ah yes. The coup de grace of debate tactics. Accuse your opposition of being a Nazi.
Brilliant.
If I recall, Moveon.org was reduced to trying the same thing.
So you support the people who have massacred nearly 25% of the population of Chechnya, and you want the rest of the Chechen people, along with their nation razed from the Earth to avenge the actions of terrorists in Beslan.
You support genocide, but oppose terrorism...you're such a hypocrite.
That was two years ago.
Posted by StoneFury to Luis Gonzalez
On News/Activism ^ 09/17/2004 2:04:08 AM EDT · 202 of 331 ^
They are pro-genocide...both of them.Pro-genocide, pro-destruction, pro-Wiped-off-the-face-of-the-Earth, whatever you want to call it.
Whatever I want to call it?
Nazi fits, wear it.
I will continue this 'discussion' after dinner.
Well, it will baffle her.
Everything that I said that she had done, she did on this thread.
Thus the proof.
You're another hypocrite who supports genocide and opposes terrorism.
Incredible hypocrisy.
You flatter youtself.
I'm off to dinner.
Sarcasm and irony are ok and even fun. I don't mind either. But when it comes to calling people nazis instead of staying on topic, I have children to speak with who are better at discussion.
Before his take over in 1959, Castro promised the Cuban people to restore the 1940 Constitution, to provide an entirely civilian government, to have full democratic political freedom of statement and press and to have honest and free elections.
Apparently, the time isn't right for that yet.
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