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Federal agents surround ranch in Douglas, Arizona(VIDEO!)
KVOA-TV-Tucson/AP ^ | September 16, 2004 at 5:00PM MST | KVOA-TV-Tucson/AP

Posted on 09/16/2004 10:16:04 PM PDT by Conservative Firster

TWO VIDEO LINKS ON RIGHT HAND SIDE PLAYLIST!!

An FBI agent shot an acquaintance of a border watch group member while trying to serve an arrest warrant, FBI officials said Thursday.

The shooting happened about 11:15 p.m. Wednesday in a grocery store parking lot in Douglas along the southeastern Arizona border with Mexico.

According to the FBI, the agent was trying to serve an arrest warrant on Casey Nethercott of Douglas. Nethercott is a known member of Ranch Rescue, a group that works to protect private property along the southern U.S. border.

Ranch Rescue and several other unauthorized groups have been patrolling along the border looking for illegal immigrants, raising concerns among migrants rights groups about potential abuses.

At the time, Nethercott was with 22-year-old Kalen Riddle, also of Douglas.

Charlene Thornton, special agent in charge of the Phoenix FBI office, said that "actions taken by Nethercott and Riddle led one of the FBI agents to fire his weapon."

The FBI would not elaborate and said it won't release the name of the agent who fired the shot, in keeping with FBI policy.

Riddle was airlifted to a Tucson hospital, but FBI officials did not know his condition.

Nethercott was arrested Wednesday and is in federal custody. An FBI spokeswoman confirmed agents searched Nethercott's Douglas ranch on Thursday afternoon.

The warrant the FBI was trying to serve alleges that Nethercott threatened Border Patrol agents.

According to the warrant, Nethercott refused to pull over for Border Patrol agents on Aug. 31. After a slow-speed chase, the warrant said that Nethercott entered "a compound in Douglas occupied by members of Ranch Rescue." Riddle was identified as one of the people there.

Agents said the Ranch Rescue members were heavily armed and had night vision equipment.

After Border Patrol agents yelled for Nethercott to show his hands, the affidavit says Nethercott refused, and responded:

"I'm going to take care of this myself, we're going to have a shootout."

The affidavit does not say how the standoff ended.

There was no listing for Riddle in Douglas. A phone message left Thursday at a residence listed for Nethercott was not returned.

Nethercott, 37, has a criminal record. He was convicted of assault with a firearm in California and was on parole when he joined Ranch Rescue.

In June, he was also found guilty by a Texas jury of felony firearm possession. The jury was deadlocked on a second charge that accused Nethercott of pistol-whipping an illegal immigrant near a Texas ranch.

Douglas rancher Roger Barnett, who is not part of Ranch Rescue, supports the measures Nethercott took to stop illegal immigration.

He compared the shooting of Riddle to Branch Davidians, who fought federal agents in Waco, Texas.

"Citizens have to get out and protect themselves," Barnett said. "And this is what it leads to."


TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: aliens; fbi; immigrantlist; immigration; nethercott; ranchrescue
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: Conservative Firster
"Question: Have you felt endangered?

Last year they had agents at least on weekends when we were there, trying to keep us from catching them. In fact, I've had different agents come out and follow me around, and I said "what are you following me around for" and they said "well, we've got orders - you're not to catch nobody this weekend"."

Who's caught now?????? I guess if you eliminate the border with Mexico then there isn't such a thing as "illegal alien".

51 posted on 09/17/2004 12:05:51 AM PDT by endthematrix (STAND BY........New Tag Line In Progress..........STAND BY......New Tag Line in)
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Comment #52 Removed by Moderator

To: Hank Rearden
Hate to say it, this is the one thing that forces me to hold my nose while voting for Bush.

He said that was one thing that he has to hold his nose on when voting for Bush. I'm holding my nose also. So you are okay with thousands upon thousands of illegals swarming across our borders and the Feds shooting people trying to protect their property. What is wrong with you?

53 posted on 09/17/2004 12:07:19 AM PDT by BJungNan (Stop Spam - Do NOT buy from junk email.)
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To: DoughtyOne

ping


54 posted on 09/17/2004 12:08:25 AM PDT by Exton1
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To: BJungNan

Bush is doing nothing about this.
Au Contraire...Under Bush the attacks on citizens have increased. It's the prosecution of businesses that hire illegals that has decreased.


55 posted on 09/17/2004 12:16:48 AM PDT by ETERNAL WARMING (He is faithful!)
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To: niki
What reason and/or authority would the Border Patrol have to pull over an American citizen. Was he illegally crossing the border? It sounds like the Border Patrol was acting as local cops.

They pull a lot of folks over at the checkpoints down here. They've also hovered over my neighbor's roof (now *that* was funny) and *tried* to drive through my property. (The razer wire does tend to hinder them a bit) For the most part, all I ever see are a bunch of overworked guys doing their best to hold back the tide. I'm going to give the BP benefit of the doubt on this one until I know more.

What I *am* sure of is that the BP didn't shoot because he found heavily armed militia folks hunkered down in a "compound". I'm sure he had provocation. (The shot guy's record kind of casts a shadow of doubt on this one.)

56 posted on 09/17/2004 12:30:33 AM PDT by Marie (Diversity is useless unless it is the result of the pursuit of excellence ~ Quinn)
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To: Conservative Firster

This is wrong!


57 posted on 09/17/2004 12:37:44 AM PDT by MistyCA
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To: BJungNan; Conservative Firster
LAW ABIDING CITIZENS??? LAW ABIDING CITIZENS???

Did you two happen to read the article at all? The man has a criminal record for assaults. He pistol whipped someone.

He fled from the Border Patrol agents. He made threatening remarks AND he refused to cooperate with them saying they would have a shoot out right there.

Then he did something that resulted in the FBI firing at him. I would imagine that he pointed a gun at them.

What the hell is wrong with people like you? This man is NOT a law abiding citizen. He is a thug.

My ex husband is a Border Patrol agent and I can guarantee you that they have all sorts of trouble with these "law abiding citizens".

You people are downright scary.
58 posted on 09/17/2004 12:59:17 AM PDT by texasflower (How appropriate...... the pro abortion party is the "D 'N' C")
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To: Hop A Long Cassidy

The third party already exists - the Constitution Party. They need to concentrate on winning state-level and even local elections instead of running a candidate for President right now. Sadly, the great error of so many third party movements lies in the effort to take the Presidency right out of the box.

The CP needs to be thinking of ways to defeat folks like Chris Cannon of Utah - a treasonous Republican who accepts awards from La Raza and the like, organizations dedicated to destroying the United States. The Dems are hard-core Marxists who are utterly unreformable. If they would have been sensible enough to nominate Zell Miller for President, Bush would be utter toast. Instead, the put up the most arrogant, elitist, aristocratic New England 'Mercedes Marxist' they can find. It's now Bush's election to lose.


59 posted on 09/17/2004 1:00:41 AM PDT by Bogolyubski
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To: texasflower

Careful dear lady...when they get testy when they're in a frenzy.


60 posted on 09/17/2004 1:04:32 AM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: ETERNAL WARMING

Perouka should start a little lower, I suggest dog catcher.


61 posted on 09/17/2004 1:05:23 AM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Rather calls Saddam "Mister President" and calls President Bush "bush")
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

Too high...there might be qualifications standards.


62 posted on 09/17/2004 1:24:03 AM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: Marie
What I *am* sure of is that the BP didn't shoot because he found heavily armed militia folks hunkered down in a "compound".

You caught that "compound" thing as well, eh? Tom and Patty, the anchors on the newscast that hosted the video had the good common sense to call Nethercott's place what it was, a ranch.

Of course, Lupita Murillo (video) who got us lots of footage of the pretty trucks and such used by the Border Patrol (?) apparently refused to use the word ranch and would only refer to Nethercott's ranch as "the compound." And what the heck was that weirdness with the photo stuck in the mesquite bush and on the barbed wire fence? Was that supposed to be "cool"?

Silly us. We thought the feds could not possibly be stupid enough to still be trying that propaganda demonization crap after Waco.

I suppose the feds have not changed the hiring psych test either. Doesn't look like it.

63 posted on 09/17/2004 1:36:46 AM PDT by TLI ( . . . ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA . . . . . .)
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To: Bogolyubski
The CP needs to be thinking of ways to defeat folks like Chris Cannon of Utah - a treasonous Republican who accepts awards from La Raza and the like

Yeah, Chris Cannon - ACU lifetime rating of 96.

Gee, I see your candidate Joe Hoeffel (ACU lifetime 6) is down 21 points to Arlen Specter.

So the Bogolyubski Conservative mantra is ... Hoeffel good - Cannon bad!

You holier than thou "real conservative" guys are beyond awareness of what idiots you've become. This is September 17. We're at war for our survival. You're pimping Hoeffel and subverting Chris Cannon.

You bozos really need to get lost.

64 posted on 09/17/2004 1:41:32 AM PDT by Barlowmaker
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To: texasflower
You people are downright scary.

It's a shame the Border Patrol can't be "downright scary."

Perhaps the illegal aliens would have stayed in mexico.

65 posted on 09/17/2004 1:44:31 AM PDT by TLI ( . . . ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA . . . . . .)
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To: Hank Rearden

- Congress was going to pass a bill with or without the President. It is a matter of 150 billion more that could have been passed, and more gov intrusion.

- The only ones trying to shut people up are the dems.

- GW has denounced "all" 527's instead of just the Swift Vets. He cannot tell BY LAW any single one to act or not.

- The education was the same as the "pills" bill. There was a bill that would have been more costly.

It is the same on the immigration. GW HAS NEVER said he wanted amnesty for illegals. But on that it is like flood waters. You don't bail out water first. YOU SANDBAG to STOP more water coming in, THEN you begin to bail, or let the water that is there just kinda disperse.


66 posted on 09/17/2004 1:53:05 AM PDT by Michael121 (An old soldier knows truth. Only a Dead Soldier knows peace.)
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To: TLI

The Border Patrol agents are not the problem. They can't help it if there are not enough agents to cover every square inch of the border.

The agents are doing the best they can. Remember, they are EMPLOYEES not policy makers.

Their job is made much harder by these "Law Abiding Citizens".

Please. The guy was a thug and he was nothing but trouble.

You all want to give these creeps a pass, because they are willing to pistol whip illegals. They are doing what you want to do.

Yet you make them out to be some sort of hero.

Screw that. This guy was trouble. He deserved to be shot it sounds like. There was nothing in that article to make me think he was anything but an opportunistic creep, probably beating up and intimidating illegals for money.

The ranchers probably paid this guy and his friend to "take care of things". It happens all the time.

I am so completely sick and tired of you people with immigration on your mind every single minute.

You bring that crap onto just about every thread. It doesn't have to be about immigration. You people make it about immigration.

Get a grip and stop making the law enforcement agents out to be the bad guys.

This makes me sick. Some of you are radicals and extremists and I believe you couldn't care less about the agents that are out there every day with scum like this.

Their job is amazingly difficult but do you care? You probably have no idea what they go through.

You people make me sick.


67 posted on 09/17/2004 2:00:23 AM PDT by texasflower (How appropriate...... the pro abortion party is the "D 'N' C")
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To: Conservative Firster

Change your diaper.


68 posted on 09/17/2004 2:10:46 AM PDT by Barlowmaker
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To: Indie
There already is. The Constitution Party [Anthony Peroutka] Someday..2008 I hope,,it will be viable because THAT is when I am leaving the CINO RepublicRats..for better or wasted vote. I don't care. The rats have to know they're days are numbered

You won't get off your butt and do jack squat. You third party hominids had your chance after your Buchanan embarassment in 2000 to build an alternative and you DID NOTHING.

That's exactly what you'll do before 2008. Nothing.

You're incapable of support and investment. It's easier to be a freeloader carping on the sideline while the well intentioned, hard working and productive people get things done. Hauling your dismal ass around behind us.

69 posted on 09/17/2004 2:16:35 AM PDT by Barlowmaker
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To: Michael121
The education was the same as the "pills" bill. There was a bill that would have been more costly.

Let's get this fleshed out.

Both the education bill, and the prescription drug benefit, spent money to effect STRUCTURAL change in how the money was spent. The education bill mandated a myriad of local controls and accountabilities previously nonexistant. That "Kennedy sellout" was a bait-and-switch ... on Kennedy! We have more local control, accountability and power locally than we had before that bill. That's a DEFEAT for the lefties.

The prescription drug benefit? Is there any wonder why the opposition to this bill was among DEMOCRATS and "true conservatives"? No, as we've seen here on FR, the "real conservatives" walk in lockstep with the Socialist lefties. This Drug benefit is the camels nose under the tent of privitization of Medicare. It has a "personalized" component. Why do you think Bernie Frank and FR paleos hated it? Bush watched the "Gingrich Revolution" fizzle. Watch Joe Scarborough today, that boy just don't get it. Seizing the supply of government from the American people, with no carrot, is a political loser. See the elections of 1996 and 1998. Bush understand that the way to shrink government is to shrind DEMAND for government. And he'll spend money to do it. And he does. He's undergoing a very unpopular transformation of the Pentagon. Army assholes hate it! They sure have access to the media, too, don't they. Iraq is a quagmire. We know that, because Army officers are telling ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN/NYT/LAT/AP/WPost and every foreign journalist that. But, we're winning there too. F*** the Paleo nitwits around this joint. Bush is the best thing that ever happened for Conservatism.

70 posted on 09/17/2004 2:58:28 AM PDT by Barlowmaker
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To: Conservative Firster; farmfriend; editor-surveyor; A. Pole; sauropod
According to the warrant, Nethercott refused to pull over for Border Patrol agents on Aug. 31. After a slow-speed chase, the warrant said that Nethercott entered "a compound in Douglas occupied by members of Ranch Rescue." Riddle was identified as one of the people there.
========================================
Guys, I wonder if the Judge who signed the warrant asked why the "Border Patrol" was harrassing this guy??? Why should he pull over for these guys? Because they carry the guns? For this, a 22 year old woman is shot. All because of an obvious setup. Peace and love, George.
71 posted on 09/17/2004 3:03:10 AM PDT by George Frm Br00klyn Park (FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!)
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To: eastforker
So, you're voting for Kerry?

Still using your childish ambush tactics I see!

72 posted on 09/17/2004 3:36:05 AM PDT by Ron H. (Seems Bush isn't all that seriuos on the WoT afterall, else why are our borders still wide open!)
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To: texasflower
My ex husband is a Border Patrol agent and I can guarantee you that they have all sorts of trouble with these "law abiding citizens".

And you'd consider yourself objective?!

73 posted on 09/17/2004 3:42:45 AM PDT by Ron H. (Seems Bush isn't all that seriuos on the WoT afterall, else why are our borders still wide open!)
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To: Ron H.

Hell no I'm not objective. I never claimed to be.

I'm far from objective. You people are among the worst that FR has to offer.

I am personally sick of it. My ex husband risks his life every single day and you jerks do nothing but bash them.

You make me sick to my stomach.


74 posted on 09/17/2004 4:30:32 AM PDT by texasflower (How appropriate...... the pro abortion party is the "D 'N' C")
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To: inkling
Let's wait for the facts

These "facts" are going to come from where? The government? (just like they told the truth about Waco I'm sure) The media? (Like CBS's "factual" documents). Given the government's history of lying about almost everything I'd tend to believe the individual's version.

75 posted on 09/17/2004 4:37:07 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: CWOJackson

I know and I usually don't get this worked up with strangers.

Just hit me wrong tonight I suppose. I just spent a couple of hours talking to my ex the other night and he was telling me about how his house was right in the path of Ivan, but he couldn't evacuate because as a federal agent he had to work.

So, he was there doing his duty even though it was dangerous, so this stuff tonight bashing the BP didn't sit well with me.

Whew. I feel better now. (sorry about that rant)


76 posted on 09/17/2004 4:37:26 AM PDT by texasflower (How appropriate...... the pro abortion party is the "D 'N' C")
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To: texasflower
ou people are downright scary.

Then I suggest you go hide under your bed.

77 posted on 09/17/2004 4:38:55 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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Comment #78 Removed by Moderator

To: Conservative Firster
The citizens trying to protect their property and their country have become enemies of the state.

I wish that was the case, but it isn’t.

79 posted on 09/17/2004 4:46:31 AM PDT by Marine Inspector (Top Agency Source)
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To: BJungNan
Instead of the Feds trying to stop a flood of illegals crossing the border, they are going after people trying to protect propert of law abiding citizens being overrun by illegals.

You obviously have not clue as to the history of Ranch Rescue and Mr. Nethercott.

80 posted on 09/17/2004 4:49:44 AM PDT by Marine Inspector (Top Agency Source)
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To: texasflower
Bug off jerk.

wow, how clever. Guess you can't think too well because you're so scard.

81 posted on 09/17/2004 4:52:52 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: from occupied ga

Are you just interested in having the last word or what? I have said what I want to say about this matter.

If you must have the last word, go for it.


82 posted on 09/17/2004 4:59:15 AM PDT by texasflower (How appropriate...... the pro abortion party is the "D 'N' C")
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To: TLI

Do you think death by lethal injection is scary?
Yet people still murder.
Do you think getting 20 years to life in prison for selling drugs (over 650 grams of cocaine) is scary?
Yet there are many dope dealers out there.

Is running a red light illegal?
Ever see someone blow a red light? Ever speed through one yourself?

On one hand conservatives want the Government OUT of our lives, on the other hand lets have scary Border agents, FBI, BATF???

The fact is, if death row doesn't stop killers from killing, warning shots or even out right fire-fights are NOT going to stop illegals from crossing the border any way they can.

The only thing that can be done is to slow the flow. Even Israel can't keep homocide bombs out, don't ya think they'd want to???


83 posted on 09/17/2004 5:27:02 AM PDT by FearlessRightwinger
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To: Barlowmaker; All
You won't get off your butt and do jack squat. You third party hominids had your chance after your Buchanan embarassment in 2000 to build an alternative and you DID NOTHING. That's exactly what you'll do before 2008. Nothing. You're incapable of support and investment. It's easier to be a freeloader carping on the sideline while the well intentioned, hard working and productive people get things done. Hauling your dismal ass around behind us.

Thank you for your courtesy BOT.

We'll have to wait until 2008 to see if your party wins now won't we. If it loses, you can thank us hominids for voting CP, and you can thank yourselves for allowing the R Party to desintigrate for your PC amoral causes. Got to keep the big tent and all.

You'd be surprised how many Christian Conservatives will not vote THIS year, much less in 2008. You're attitute rings of desperation because you know your ship has sprung a leak.

And believe me, the party knows we will make it or break it in 2008 if it fails to change direction. I can point to several op-eds, but since you read I'm sure you've seen them. Enough said. The writing is on the wall.

A vote for a "slower decline" is not progress, but you appeasers will never see that because you are the ones who refuse to fight to change the party in the interest of "votes."

84 posted on 09/17/2004 5:31:27 AM PDT by Indie (Ignorance of the truth is no excuse for stupidity.)
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To: Indie

Funny.........the Kerry people are saying the exact samething.

Do I smell a merger??


85 posted on 09/17/2004 5:35:01 AM PDT by FearlessRightwinger
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To: Conservative Firster
Why would this guy not pull over for the Border Patrol? Why would he say they were gonna have a shoot out? This isn't the ATF barging in on a bunch of women and children. This is the Border Patrol trying to do its job and being hindered by one man. The FBI came in because of that.

I love the fact citizens are protecting the border the old fashioned way but don't make it hard on the Border Patrol either.

These guys need to have the attitude of "law and order every time" or they will lose the support of the people.

86 posted on 09/17/2004 5:39:44 AM PDT by normy (Kerry doesn't want us to trust him to do the right thing, he wants us to trust France to.)
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To: from occupied ga
Lets get something straight. Bush was not governor during the Waco murders, but if he was he would have confronted Clinton's thugs. Bush has too much respect for the Rangers and local police who were against the seige. Ann Richards was probably looking for a cabinet post.

This is not Waco and to compare it is nuts! Hell this isn't even Ruby Ridge!

87 posted on 09/17/2004 5:47:04 AM PDT by normy (Kerry doesn't want us to trust him to do the right thing, he wants us to trust France to.)
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To: niki; hchutch
What reason and/or authority would the Border Patrol have to pull over an American citizen. Was he illegally crossing the border?

Anyone driving along the border strip is going to be of interest to the Border Patrol--after all, he could be getting ready to pick up illegal aliens.

I've been pulled over three times by the Border Patrol. I never seem to get into trouble--but, then again, I don't promise them that I'll start a shootout.

88 posted on 09/17/2004 5:47:36 AM PDT by Poohbah (If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
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To: Indie; hchutch
Nethercott, 37, has a criminal record. He was convicted of assault with a firearm in California and was on parole when he joined Ranch Rescue.

IN CAL, THIS COULD MEAN HE WAS DEFENDING HIMSELF.

Unlikely. You really have to work at

In June, he was also found guilty by a Texas jury of felony firearm possession.

SO MUCH FOR THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

Convicted felons lose their 2A rights.

The jury was deadlocked on a second charge that accused Nethercott of pistol-whipping an illegal immigrant near a Texas ranch.

THE ILLEGAL IS LUCKY HE WAS STILL BREATHING.

There are some people who deserve to get burned to a crisp by the FBI. Folks like you who think that it's perfectly OK to commit extrajudicial murder have no grounds whatsoever for complaint when it happens to them...

89 posted on 09/17/2004 5:52:32 AM PDT by Poohbah (If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
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To: Crazieman
"...forces me to hold my nose while voting for Bush..."

I agree with you. If there is a single issue that would keep me from voting for Bush it is immigration. IMHO Illegal Immigration is the single issue I would like resolved, even before terrorism. Safe borders will go a long way toward making a safer USA.
90 posted on 09/17/2004 5:55:08 AM PDT by devane617
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To: texasflower; hchutch

Welcome to the anti-illegal-immigrant-nutball wing of Free Republic. Your post shows that you are using logic and common sense. These are scarce commodities in here.


91 posted on 09/17/2004 5:55:49 AM PDT by Poohbah (If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
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To: pilgrim
How come they do not stop the illegals from coming across the border. They go after an American instead ofter a citizens instead of the terrorist. Just like before 9/11. The purpose of the federal government is to protect the American people. Go get the people who are sneaking into our country.
92 posted on 09/17/2004 6:01:24 AM PDT by YOUGOTIT
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To: Indie

Let me know when you have a contribution to make.

Your demands are boring.


93 posted on 09/17/2004 6:02:52 AM PDT by Barlowmaker
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To: 1_Inch_Group
A migrant's rights organization has just triumphed over a private property owner

This police action is not happening because Nethercott is a private property owner. It is happening because he has threatened to shoot federal law enforcement officers.

He may be doing the right thing out there in AZ with regards to illegal immigrants but he is out of control and going about it in a way that makes this type of police action inevitable.

94 posted on 09/17/2004 6:08:49 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (If you decide to kick the tiger in the ass...you'd better be prepared to deal with the teeth.)
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To: normy
Whether or not Ranch Rescue is an extremist group or Mr. Nethercott is a loose cannon is not the ultimate issue. The ultimate issue is that the Feds have done little, if anything, to stem the tide of illegal immigration, irrespective of what party controls the White House. In effect, the United States has lost control of its land borders with Mexico and Canada. Physical borders are a primary definition of a nation. Neither of the Bushes, nor Clinton, nor Reagan have been willing to take the steps necessary to effectively stem the tide of illegal immigration. The Border Patrol exists, but it is about as effective as an ink blotter in drying up the Atlantic Ocean. Furthermore, it appears that the agency is set upon suppressing private sector measures to curb the flow of illegals upon ranches and farms adjacent to the border.

One measure to curb illegal immigration would include the use of Federal troops. (I am aware of the Posse Commutates Act, but defense of the borders would fall under the military's primary mission of defending the country.) Another measure would entail building ugly, but necessary, walls and other barriers. Higher scrutiny of border crossings is yet another vital measure. There would be some economic costs, as it would hurt border cities like San Diego, El Paso, and Brownsville on our Mexican frontier and Buffalo, Sault Ste. Marie, and Detroit on our Canadian frontier.

We can speculate as to why neither political party wants to stem the tide of illegal immigration. Unless it is severely curbed, the United States will be transformed, and not for the better. I do not want my grandchildren to live their lives in a temperate zone Brazil or be forced to learn Spanish for economic survival.

95 posted on 09/17/2004 6:11:21 AM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: Conservative Firster
What whiney victimology worthy of Democrats. No one is an enemy of the state for protecting their property against trespass or getting their panties in a bunch over misdemeanor border crossings, but for felony assault.
96 posted on 09/17/2004 6:15:35 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: inkling
RE: Let's wait for the facts -- we turn into DU-style blame America firsters.

That is of course a good point. But..

It took years and years and citizens who were willing to suffer the verbal abuse and ridicule of both fellow citizens and their government to get the facts (most of them anyway) about Ruby Ridge and Waco.

The Congressional hearings probably saved the lives of countless American citizens as the Congress, actually doing its job, reminded federal authorities that their role is law enforcement not breaking things and killing people.

To be fair, and going by what G Gordon Liddy said (as best I can remember), the renegade federal authorities were mostly in organizations that were dumping grounds for employees who were unwanted by the parent agency.

No, we cannot just wait. We have to demand facts. There are still far too many heavily-armed misfit psychos ready to act out war movies on their fellow citizens if the past is any indication. IMO.

97 posted on 09/17/2004 6:17:02 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (Benedict Arnold was a hero for both sides in the same war, too!)
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To: BJungNan

Of course you have it wrong. No one is going after anyone "for trying to protect their property" but for felony assault.

98 posted on 09/17/2004 6:17:26 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
Just because one or two Ranch Rescue members might fit that description is no reason to paint them all with so broad a brush.
99 posted on 09/17/2004 6:19:25 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Indie

CP? Heck, the apparent standard-bearers for UberKonservatizm are Ralph Nader and his Socialist Worker's Party cohort, who will close the border, protect American workers, and persecute those evil, greedy corporations.


100 posted on 09/17/2004 6:22:36 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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