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FOR THE RECORD: CBS Memos Controversy on Free Republic
Free Republic ^ | September 18, 2004

Posted on 09/18/2004 3:26:50 PM PDT by Howlin

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1 posted on 09/18/2004 3:26:50 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Howlin
Live Thread: Ben Barnes and CBS Attempt Another Bush Smear (60 Minutes)
www.freerepublic.com | September 8, 2004

Posted on 09/08/2004 7:39:18 PM EDT by Howlin

Have at him!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210516/posts

To: Carolinamom

He says that he recommnended a lot of people during that time.

There were 100's of names of people wanting to get into the ANG or the NG, he says. (Lie)

70 posted on 09/08/2004 8:09:11 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: Howlin

Barnes equates going into the National Guard with running away to Canada to escape the draft. I'm done!

74 posted on 09/08/2004 8:10:04 PM EDT by A Citizen Reporter
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To: A Citizen Reporter

Bush trained in Georgia!

1970, Bush was a celebrity; press release issued in Texas said he was the son of 41.

79 posted on 09/08/2004 8:11:03 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: tapatio

"How Bush can get out of doing his drill from "now" through November."

CBS has found some "new papers."

82 posted on 09/08/2004 8:11:58 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: Howlin

CBS "expert" doesnt' see anything "discordanant" in the way things were done back then.

84 posted on 09/08/2004 8:12:43 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: marway

Don't you like the way all these "new papers" come from a dead man?

90 posted on 09/08/2004 8:15:32 PM EDT by tapatio (Society is always taken by surprise at any new example of common sense.)
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To: tapatio
CBS spares no expense and brings in a handwriting analyst. Now transitioning to Bush's service record. When is the Bush administration say Old media retreading Old news... what about discrepancies in Kerry's service recored. Rushing to the bathro---
96 posted on 09/08/2004 8:16:48 PM EDT by Shqipo (The gloves are on and the corners are empty.)
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To: Howlin
WE NEED TO SEE THOSE MEMOS AGAIN!

They are not in the style that we used when I came in to the USAF. They looked like the style and format we started using about 12 years ago (1992). Our signature blocks were left justified, now they are rigth of center...like the ones they just showed.

Can we get a copy of those memos?

107 posted on 09/08/2004 8:19:00 PM EDT by TankerKC (R.I.P. Spc Trevor A. Win'E American Hero)
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To: TankerKC

They looked ODD, didn't they?

Here is their web site, but I don't see it:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/06/politics/main641481.shtml

123 posted on 09/08/2004 8:22:00 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: TankerKC

The documents CBS used are FRAUDS!!!!!!!!

125 posted on 09/08/2004 8:22:34 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: Howlin

Details........please. Site for legal forms of documents?

129 posted on 09/08/2004 8:23:50 PM EDT by Carolinamom
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To: Howlin
Every damned "witness" is now dead. I want to see an analysis of those new papers. They are all type written so it should be possible to see if it was written on a Government Issue typewriter of that era. This stinks like week old fish.
131 posted on 09/08/2004 8:24:06 PM EDT by Texasforever (Kerry's new slogan "IT'S NOT THE STUPID CANDIDATE SO STOP SAYING THAT")
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To: Howlin

No I didn't hear anything new at all. But I didn't really get a good look at those documents Dan Blather presented (was distracted as usual).

139 posted on 09/08/2004 8:25:19 PM EDT by nutmeg ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - Comrade Hillary - 6/28/04)
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To: nutmeg
those documents Dan Blather presented...

What were they supposed to be?

145 posted on 09/08/2004 8:26:29 PM EDT by noexcuses
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To: Howlin

Barnes is a fraud. Greg Knap on KLIF pointed that out today...he also interviewed Will Campenni who flew with Bush.

I am doing a write up of that and will post soon.

AS FAR AS BARNES....

Earlier today...Hannity said that Barnes swore under oath in 1999 that he did not help Bush get into the Guard.

ALSO...It seems that in the past...Barnes has claimed that he helped Bush get into the Guard when he was LT Gov.

The radio made the point that Bush went into the Guard in 68......Barnes was not Lt. Gov until 1969.
(digging up confirmation on that)

The liberal college prof that they showed...has actually done work with the DNC and is friends with Hill Clinton.

I thought it desperate that 60 minutes would say...they had an expert look at the supposed documents to see if a guy really wrote them. THEY WERE TYPED DOCUMENTS.

They guys who they said had the documents...has come out in the past and admitted they were not real. He is dead not...so Rather thought...why not try it again.

148 posted on 09/08/2004 8:27:11 PM EDT by ArmyBratproud
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To: Howlin

What documents are you referring to?

149 posted on 09/08/2004 8:27:55 PM EDT by mystery-ak (This President, This Time......Ron Silveraaohey hae)
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To: TankerKC; All

And did folks use CYA back then?

I wasn't around back then, but I always thought that was a somewhat new thing.

Did they go into other people's files too?

And isn't it funny, everybody's dead. Maybe that makes sense. It was a long time ago, but everybody but Barnes is dead.

Don't you think, if Barnes was making these allegations against Kerry, that we would have heard all about Barnes long running problem with following the law. Oh, Heavens, Barnes would have had to pull a Boorda by now.

I really think CBS News should strap a crotch camp with Dan when he is interviewing people to screw Bush. I suspect Dan had a Hell of a boner during this interview. It almost look like he reached completion during this interview. It was nauseating.

159 posted on 09/08/2004 8:29:57 PM EDT by faithincowboys
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To: cyncooper

CBS) Former Texas House Speaker and Lt. Governor Ben Barnes tells Correspondent Dan Rather that he regrets what he calls the "life or death" decision he made to help President Bush get into the Texas Air National Guard.

Rather's report, which will include new information about Bush's military service, will be broadcast on 60 Minutes, tonight at 8 p.m. ET/PT.



Following are quotes from Rather's interview with Barnes:

Barnes on his decision to help George W. Bush and others get into the National Guard:
"I've thought about it an awful lot and you walk through the Vietnam memorial, particularly at night like I did a few months ago and, I tell you, you'll think about it a long time. ...I don't think that I had any right to have the power that I had to choose who was going to Vietnam and who was not going to Vietnam. That's power. In some instances, when I looked at those names, I was maybe determining life or death and that's not a power that I want to have. ..."

Barnes on his feelings of regret:
"It would be very easy for me to sit here and tell you, Dan, that I had wrestled with this and lost a lot of sleep at night, but I wouldn't be telling you the truth. I...not eagerly, but readily, was willing to call and get those young men into the National Guard that were friends of mine and supporters of mine. ...Reflecting back, I'm very sorry about it, but you know, it happened and it was because of my ambition, my youth and my lack of understanding. But it happened and it's not...something I'm necessarily proud of."




Thirty years after the fact, Barnes says he is one of many Americans still trying to make peace with what he did during the war.

"I've thought about it an awful lot. And you walk through the Vietnam memorial, particularly at night like I did a few months ago, and I tell you, you'll think about it a long time," says Barnes.

"I don’t think I had any right to have the power that I had, to choose who was going to go to Vietnam and who was not going to go to Vietnam. That's power. In some instances, when I looked at those names, I was maybe determining life or death. And that's not a power that I want to have."

"Too strong or not to say that you are ashamed of it now," asks Rather.

"Oh, I think that would be somewhat of an appropriate thing," says Barnes. "I'm very, very sorry."-->

1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

New Questions On Bush Guard Duty

WASHINGTON, Sept. 8, 2004




"Essentially, Bush gamed the system to avoid serving his country the way that most of his contemporaries had to."
Larry Korb, former assistant Secretary of Defense


(CBS/AP) As a fighter pilot for the Texas Air National Guard, then-Lt. George W. Bush was assigned to fly F-102's out of Houston's Ellington Air Force Base. Early on, he received excellent evaluations, say reports released years ago by the White House.

What has never surfaced before, reports CBS News Anchor Dan Rather, are four documents from the personal files of Col. Jerry Killian, Mr. Bush's squadron commander. They could help answer lingering questions on whether Lt. Bush received special consideration during his military service.

The first memo is a direct order to take "an annual physical examination" – a requirement for all pilots.




60 Minutes Correspondent Dan Rather has an exclusive interview with former Texas House speaker and Lt. Governor Ben Barnes, about the role Barnes says he played in getting George W. Bush into the Texas Air National Guard, Wednesday, 8:00 p.m., ET/PT



Another memo refers to a phone call from the lieutenant in which he and his commander "discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November." And that due to other commitments "he may not have time."

On August 1, 1972, Col. Killian grounded Lt. Bush for failure to perform to U.S. Air Force/Texas Air National Guard standards and for failure to take his annual physical as ordered.

A year after Lt. Bush's suspension from flying, Killian was asked to write another assessment.

Killian's memo, titled 'CYA' reads he is being pressured by higher-ups to give the young pilot a favorable yearly evaluation; to, in effect, sugarcoat his review. He refuses, saying, "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job."

Thirty-one years later, supporters of now-President Bush have been critical of opponent John Kerry's Vietnam record. Now it's the president's turn to answer tough questions about his own service.

It was just what the White House had hoped to avoid – a new examination of the president's military record just as he seeks to reinforce his credentials as a wartime leader. And Republican officials wasted no time taking dead aim at Ben Barnes' claim that he pulled strings to get George W. Bush into the National Guard, reports CBS News Chief White House Correspondent John Roberts.

"I chalk it up to politics," said White House Communications Director Dan Bartlett. "They play dirty down in Texas. I've been there. I see how it works. But the bottom line is that there is no truth to this."

Asked if this is dirty politics, Bartlett replied, "Oh, I think it is."

They also undercut the personal notes Mr. Bush's former commander, Col. Jerry Killian, wrote for his own files, saying "it's impossible to read the mind of a dead man."

More difficult to brush off are two official memos that seem to contradict previous White House statements.

One "orders" the president to report for a physical. The White House has said the physical was "not necessary" because the president stopped flying.

And where the White House says the president's flying status was revoked simply for missing that physical, the memo points to both the missed physical and "failure to perform to (USAF/TexANG) standards."

"The official files tell the facts," says Bartlett. "And the facts are President Bush served. He served honorably. And that's why he was honorably discharged."

It's not just the newly discovered memos causing trouble. There are new questions as to why, when he moved to Massachusetts to attend Harvard Business School, Mr. Bush did not sign up with a reserve unit there, as he promised in a letter when he left the Texas National Guard

And why, with his erratic attendance record, he was subject to neither discipline nor active duty call-up as provided for in his contract with the Guard.

Larry Korb, an assistant Secretary of Defense under President Reagan has reviewed the Mr. Bush's record and believes he did not fulfill his contract.

"Essentially, Bush gamed the system to avoid serving his country the way that most of his contemporaries had to," Korb said.

And on top of all this, the Democrats' answer to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth unleashed an ad Wednesday charging President Bush was AWOL from the Alabama National Guard in the summer of 1972.

But like their Republican counterparts, Texans for Truth has a credibility problem. While the chief accuser, former Alabama Guard pilot Bob Mintz, says in the ad it would have been impossible for Mr. Bush to have gone unnoticed, in an interview earlier this year with CBS News, Mintz admitted he's not a smoking gun.

"I cannot say he was not there," Mintz said. "Absolutely positively was not there. I cannot say that. I cannot say he didn't do his duty."


©MMIV, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.




160 posted on 09/08/2004 8:30:34 PM EDT by bitt ("I'm Mad as Zell, and I'm Not Going to Take It Anymore." (CongressmanBillybob))
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To: ArmyBratproud
"I thought it desperate that 60 minutes would say...they had an expert look at the supposed documents to see if a guy really wrote them. THEY WERE TYPED DOCUMENTS."

That was the most desperate piece of "journalism" I've seen in a while.

165 posted on 09/08/2004 8:31:49 PM EDT by A Citizen Reporter
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To: Carolinamom

They only showed the documents; held them up to the camera; I don't see them on the web site.

Until they post them for all of us to look at, I can only assume they are frauds.

166 posted on 09/08/2004 8:32:12 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: TankerKC

Didn't watch the show. What are these "new memos" that CBS has found?

169 posted on 09/08/2004 8:33:28 PM EDT by gswilder
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To: pacocat

We have a corrupt Democrat, currently a big time Kerry supporter, claiming to be regretful for being a politician giving out political favors to his supporters 36 years ago. Except the Bushes were not Democrats then or now...

Then... we produce some never before seen documents that we do not name the source for and which have not been publicly scrutinized and link the two loosely into an indictment that is implied but not stated to the effect that all this was a conspiracy of some sort to keep the "privileged" son out of Vietnam.


The issue that is raised here that needs to be answered is where did these documents come from and where have they been and who can testify to their authenticity? I have it! NOW we know what Sandy Berger was stealing from the national archives!

170 posted on 09/08/2004 8:33:35 PM EDT by RedEyeJack
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To: TankerKC
"WE NEED TO SEE THOSE MEMOS AGAIN!"

I'll say. How convenient that they only made partial quotations of the whole memos. Who knows how out of context they were.

172 posted on 09/08/2004 8:33:48 PM EDT by mass55th ( “Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings.”)
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To: cyncooper

I think there are two factors which will minimize the impact on Bush:

1) Bush has been open about discussing his service, especially in recent interviews. Kerry has yet to take questions about the Swifty charges (or anything else, for that matter!). Dubya even went so far as to say Kerry's service was more admirable than his own, BUT that he was proud of his service.

2) Bush himself requested all the files released (not that the media is reporting that little fact). Kerry hasn't.

BC04 has a strategy on this...we'll see as it plays out.

176 posted on 09/08/2004 8:35:08 PM EDT by Timeout (My name is Timeout....and I'm a blogaholic)
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To: pacocat
"If, and I mean if, these memos are genuine, then this is a very big deal. "

How is it a big deal? There's nothing in them that hasn't already been known.

180 posted on 09/08/2004 8:36:03 PM EDT by mass55th ( “Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings.”)
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To: Texasforever

They looked odd, didn't they?

183 posted on 09/08/2004 8:37:24 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: mass55th

Yes--these are memos that are "just found", and not part of the Guard record. They are apparently memos that Bush's CO kept....

Why the heck would a CO write these about a Guardsman? That is the question, and it won't be spun well.

187 posted on 09/08/2004 8:40:03 PM EDT by pacocat
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To: rodguy911
I don't get any of this, Bush scored more points than necessary, 50 I think, each and every year of his service, every year he was in and everything he did has a paper trail, what is the problem here? I must be missing something.

That's what I keep asking. The year in question 50 units were required; GWB completed 56. What's the problem?

189 posted on 09/08/2004 8:41:13 PM EDT by alnick (US forces armed with what? Spitballs??)
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To: mass55th

Agree... Where did they come from? Who do they belong to? Why were they made available at this time? Is this all the documents held by whoever owns them? Are there others that might be exculpatory to the allegations made tonight? This is a campaign advertisement disguised as a "news" program...

196 posted on 09/08/2004 8:44:04 PM EDT by RedEyeJack
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To: cyncooper; TomGuy; hole_n_one

Can some of you guys in the later time zones WATCH this interview and get a GOOD LOOK at those docuemtns.....how they were typed, where the signature was.....that kind of thing?

A screen grab would be great!

Who else does screen captures?

197 posted on 09/08/2004 8:44:13 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: mystery-ak

Some "new" letters from Bush's file ........supposedly.

202 posted on 09/08/2004 8:46:24 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: pacocat
"That is the question, and it won't be spun well."

They might be memos written by his CO, but they contain nothing in them that hasn't already been found in his records. They can spin it all they want, and I hope they waste alot of money doing it. I doubt it will get any traction. The bottom line is Bush signed Form 180 to have all his records released. If he felt there was anything detrimental in them, he wouldn't have signed the form. On the other hand, Kerry refuses to sign form 180. What does that tell you?

209 posted on 09/08/2004 8:49:46 PM EDT by mass55th ( “Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings.”)
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To: bitt
Another memo refers to a phone call from the lieutenant in which he and his commander "discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November." And that due to other commitments "he may not have time."

Wouldn't that be the discussion about Bush working on the campaign in Alabama and trying to figure out a way he could do it?

214 posted on 09/08/2004 8:53:35 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: Howlin
Here's a link to the CBS story:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/06/politics/main641481.shtml

...The first memo is a direct order to take "an annual physical examination" – a requirement for all pilots

...Another memo refers to a phone call from the lieutenant in which he and his commander "discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November." And that due to other commitments "he may not have time."...

...Killian's memo, titled 'CYA' reads he is being pressured by higher-ups to give the young pilot a favorable yearly evaluation; to, in effect, sugarcoat his review. He refuses, saying, "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job." ...

...More difficult to brush off are two official memos that seem to contradict previous White House statements.

One "orders" the president to report for a physical. The White House has said the physical was "not necessary" because the president stopped flying.

And where the White House says the president's flying status was revoked simply for missing that physical, the memo points to both the missed physical and "failure to perform to (USAF/TexANG) standards...

221 posted on 09/08/2004 8:57:07 PM EDT by rocklobster11
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To: mass55th
I disagree, respectfully.

There is no memo in the President's National Guard File that is headed "CYA".

These are memos that Killian kept. They are not part of the President's guard file, but CBS is claiming that they are contemporaneous notes of Bush's CO.

You see the implication will be ---why would Bush's CO keep his own memos, contemporaneously?
226 posted on 09/08/2004 8:59:01 PM EDT by pacocat
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To: noexcuses
those documents Dan Blather presented...

What were they supposed to be?

Some new memos/letters that were "just found", and not part of Bush's Guard records, I believe.

227 posted on 09/08/2004 9:00:51 PM EDT by nutmeg ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - Comrade Hillary - 6/28/04)
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To: pacocat
"but CBS is claiming....."

Theirin lies the problem with your premise.

231 posted on 09/08/2004 9:02:08 PM EDT by A Citizen Reporter
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To: Howlin

Yeah, that was regarding the campaign in Alabama he wanted to work on.

238 posted on 09/08/2004 9:07:09 PM EDT by mass55th ( “Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings.”)
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To: A Citizen Reporter
Sigh---

All kidding aside, I suggest that going with the defense of "they are faked documents" will not play well.
241 posted on 09/08/2004 9:08:54 PM EDT by pacocat
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To: Howlin

Hey Howlin .. I just heard on the Radio .. Dan Rathernot mentioning a document that was just found in some officers file about President Bush

What the heck is that about?

243 posted on 09/08/2004 9:09:13 PM EDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: pacocat
===Sigh

I suggest that trying to prop up credibility about docs that were hidden away by a CO, and not made part of the official record, is more than ludicrous.

249 posted on 09/08/2004 9:11:32 PM EDT by A Citizen Reporter
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To: Howlin

Isn't Killian dead? How did CBS authenticate documents supposedly authored by a dead man and weren't a part of the official file?

254 posted on 09/08/2004 9:13:36 PM EDT by ambrose (http://www.swiftvets.com/)
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To: gswilder

Memos for Records that Bush's Squadron Commander wrote...recently "discovered".

257 posted on 09/08/2004 9:14:59 PM EDT by TankerKC (R.I.P. Spc Trevor A. Win'E American Hero)
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To: rocklobster11
One thing here, why would Col Killian be overly concerned about Bush and feel the need to make memos on him?
I would guess that there were a lot more young men from far more important and richer connected families in the Guard Unit than Bush.
I think we need to see all those so called memos and I want to know exactly where they came from.
Why didn't they come out long before this? I mean Bush has been through two campaigns for Governor and one for President so those documents, if they are real, have been out there to find for a very long time.
It tells me this is sheer desperation on the Dems part to find this suspicious information at this juncture.
Ben Barnes is a know liar and a fraud. If he was only 29 in 1968 then he also would have eligible for the draft in the 1960's and since we know his Sugar Daddy was LBJ I guess we know how he stayed out of Vietnam.
260 posted on 09/08/2004 9:15:44 PM EDT by Captain Peter Blood
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To: TankerKC

I'd really like to see those documents myself.

263 posted on 09/08/2004 9:16:23 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: A Citizen Reporter

That depends--sometimes the public is more willing to believe contemporaneous notes than offical documents.

We are a nation of tinfoilers and conspiracy theorists.

I don't know if these documents are genuine, but until someone credible debunks them, I don't see major media doubting them.

267 posted on 09/08/2004 9:17:28 PM EDT by pacocat
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To: ambrose

He is dead......and they didn't explain that.

Here is the quote:

What has never surfaced before, reports CBS News Anchor Dan Rather, are four documents from the personal files of Col. Jerry Killian, Mr. Bush's squadron commander. They could help answer lingering questions on whether Lt. Bush received special consideration during his military service.

268 posted on 09/08/2004 9:18:33 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: pacocat
"You see the implication will be ---why would Bush's CO keep his own memos, contemporaneously? "

I'm sure Bush wasn't the only Guardsman that Killian had memos on in his own personal file. The only ones they were interested in though were the ones on Bush.

277 posted on 09/08/2004 9:24:30 PM EDT by mass55th ( “Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings.”)
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To: mass55th
The only ones they were interested in though were the ones on Bush.

Of course you meant the ones DETRIMENTAL to Bush, right?

280 posted on 09/08/2004 9:26:44 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: A Citizen Reporter

What the heck is going on...?

291 posted on 09/08/2004 9:33:07 PM EDT by Dog
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To: All
Does anybody have a transcript link for the Barnes interview?

Please post it and we can deconstruct it.

294 posted on 09/08/2004 9:35:30 PM EDT by GOPcapitalist ("Can Lincoln expect to subjugate a people thus resolved? No!" - Sam Houston, 3/1863)
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To: Dog

Rather tried to make a "blockbuster" out of a 15 minute segment on "60 mins", by exposing some papers on President Bush's National Guard service, which where "previously NEVER SEEN". It's CBS's version of a Kitty Kelly hit.

296 posted on 09/08/2004 9:36:27 PM EDT by A Citizen Reporter
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To: Howlin
What's your take on this?

My take is that it's going to be difficult to question a dead man as to what he meant by the memos or even if they were written contemporaneously.

On the other hand, I'd say that CBS released the most damaging quotes in the most ominous context possible. So let's look at them:

...The first memo is a direct order to take "an annual physical examination" – a requirement for all pilots

Big deal. He was "ordered" to take a physical. This could have meant ordered in "Do this or else" or it could have been ordered as in "I'm ordering you show up for your quarterly dental cleaning". I'm sure the whole memo won't look like an absolute order.

...Another memo refers to a phone call from the lieutenant in which he and his commander "discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November." And that due to other commitments "he may not have time."...

Again, what's the big deal? Bush calls him analyzing his options on alternate service during a period he is busy at work. That happens all the time in the reserves. Reservists do have full time jobs. And if there were something more damaging about this conversation, it would have been mentioned

...Killian's memo, titled 'CYA' reads he is being pressured by higher-ups to give the young pilot a favorable yearly evaluation; to, in effect, sugarcoat his review. He refuses, saying, "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job." ...

Here he says he got pressure from above but refused to comply. It doesn't say that he got pressure from Bush. It also doesn't define what "pressure" means. Perhaps some of the higher ups who knew Bush's dad was a politician made some requests on Bush's behalf without Bush's knowledge. Even so, the memo says that he refused to bow to the pressure, and there is nothing negative in Bush's actual records, so you got to go with the official record here.

...More difficult to brush off are two official memos that seem to contradict previous White House statements.

One "orders" the president to report for a physical. The White House has said the physical was "not necessary" because the president stopped flying.

So he was ordered to get a physical if he intended to keep flying, but he knew he would not be flying again so he didn't get it. Perhaps his commander ordered him to get the physical without knowing what Bush's long range plans were. Again, I find it difficult to believe that a commander "ordered" him to something that was routinely scheduled anyway

And where the White House says the president's flying status was revoked simply for missing that physical, the memo points to both the missed physical and "failure to perform to (USAF/TexANG) standards...

I'd have to have details defining what "failure to perform to (ASAF/TexANG) standards means. Otherwise this is just hot air. This is the only thing that could be anything, but if it was already part of Bush's official record, I'm sure it's been looked over. If it was part of this guys personal files, how could it have been "official".

So at best they have one memo that may raise a small question with the Anybody But Bush hatemongers. For the rest of us, I can't see this as any big deal. Of course, the media is part of the ABB hatemongers, so they could whip it up nonstop until the election if they want. But ultimately, I can't imagine this will make any difference to the voters.

297 posted on 09/08/2004 9:36:45 PM EDT by rocklobster11
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To: mass55th
I was in the AF Reserve in 72 stationed at Ellington AFB (same as Bush). I was a personal clerk and was responsible for cutting numerous orders (mostly TDA, short term activations and reassignments).

I cannot speak for procedures at the TANG, but I assume they followed the same procedures that we did.

All of the memos showed a centered TYPED heading instead of being typed on letterhead (yes we used letterhead or standardized forms back then).

ALL order were typed on a standardized form.

As a personel clerk I spent a good deal of my time re-assigning people for temporary duty so they could make up missed meetings. It was VERY common for us to miss meetings for various reasons.

Our C130 guys were called up for an airlift operation just as I was getting off my initial 6 months of active duty. My seargent asked me to stay an extra week to help prepare orders. He said they couldn't pay me for it but he would allow me to miss my first 3 months of meetings. This was VERY common. I missed most of my last 3 years of meetings (being in personel had it's benefits).
304 posted on 09/08/2004 9:43:55 PM EDT by jhouston
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To: TankerKC

i didn't watch 60 minutes but you're exactly right about the signature blocks....goodness, i should know, i was a secretary for the DAF from 1969 to 1991 when i left the pentagon to work for the navy and the signature block was ALWAYS on the left hand margin....I HATE CBS!

305 posted on 09/08/2004 9:44:54 PM EDT by BamaDi
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To: tapatio
Don't you like the way all these "new papers" come from a dead man?

The guy is no longer alive???

Papers just showed up after all these years??

Something doesn't smell right

311 posted on 09/08/2004 9:47:37 PM EDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: TankerKC
Can we get a copy of those memos?

Is CBS going to release them to the public?

319 posted on 09/08/2004 9:52:29 PM EDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: cyncooper

Sent Brit my first ever e-mail with a copy of a FReeper analysis regarding the Bush AWOL smears. Will not see the program until later -- hope Brit handed their heads to them.

320 posted on 09/08/2004 9:55:02 PM EDT by CedarDave (USCG Vietnam vet to DC from NM on 9/12 for the "Kerry Lied...While Good Men Died" rally. Join us!)
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To: Captain Peter Blood
"I think we need to see all those so called memos and I want to know exactly where they came from. "

I'd like to see the whole Killian collection to see how many other memos he wrote on other Guardsmen, how many other orders for physicals he sent out and how many other suspensions from flying he ordered. I'm sure there's more than just Bush's in that file collection.

The quotes used by CBS were only partial, so we have no idea in what context they were used in the memos. They were probably edited by CBS to get the most effect for the point they wanted to present.

322 posted on 09/08/2004 9:56:46 PM EDT by mass55th ( “Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings.”)
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To: bitt

"It's not just the newly discovered memos causing trouble. There are new questions as to why, when he moved to Massachusetts to attend Harvard Business School, Mr. Bush did not sign up with a reserve unit there, as he promised in a letter when he left the Texas National Guard".

This was debunked by the White House today, citing Military records already in the hands of the media, proving that the President received legitimate early release to attend graduate school. The fact that the media had these records for sometime, and ignored them in their research, proves this is nothing but BULL$HIT!

It also proves that the rest of the story carries the same stench of LIES!

LLS

327 posted on 09/08/2004 9:59:33 PM EDT by LibLieSlayer (Continued Job creation will not matter, if kerry "Outsources" our National Defense!)
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To: All
Check out this on the MRC if you've not done so already.

60 Minutes Tonight to Air 4th Anti-Bush Hit Job So Far This Year

328 posted on 09/08/2004 9:59:59 PM EDT by Flashman_at_the_charge (A proud member of the self-preservation society)
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To: A Citizen Reporter
I found this while Googling around. I'll bet they started sifting through Killian's files to see what they could find months ago.

I am not one who thinks they faked documents. However, I have seen the media time and again misrepresent and distort the contents of documents:

New Evidence Supports Bush Military Service (Mostly)

February 2004

excerpt:

The Boston Globe reported Feb. 12 that Bush’s suspension from flight duty while he was in Alabama “should have prompted an investigation by his commander” in Houston under Air Force regulations in effect at the time. The Globe also said “It is unclear whether Bush's commander, Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian, ordered any inquiry, as required.” Killian is deceased.

~snip~

335 posted on 09/08/2004 10:05:55 PM EDT by cyncooper (We're mad as Zell and we're not going to take it anymore!)
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To: Mo1
Something doesn't smell right

It never does when a rat is involved, and Rather is a rat by no other name. The first President Bush nailed him in an interview in 1988, and it has been pay back time ever since.(by the way it was a sight to behold)

336 posted on 09/08/2004 10:06:36 PM EDT by woodyinscc
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To: Howlin
The lunatic fringe we call the mainstream media dismissed the Swift Boat Vet's as partisan hacks and used the Navy records as evidence of Kerry's heroism. Now they offer a partisan hack liar and a dead man's personal notes as the truth of Bush's service?

Here is what really matters, John Kerry met with Communists and lied to the Senate of the United States. The real question, in my mind, is can these issues make it to the national debate and how much of a pass will the country give Kerry on his post-war activities because he actually was in Viet Nam.
337 posted on 09/08/2004 10:07:24 PM EDT by Dolphy (Support swiftvets.com)
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To: pacocat
What it leaves you wondering is why a commanding officer would take and leave personal notes on a Guardsman. I would ask Killian, if he was alive "Why would you take home personal memos like that?" The inference is not good.

Where did Dan say these memos were found?

339 posted on 09/08/2004 10:08:50 PM EDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: pacocat

They are NOT documents. They are supposedly "personal notes" of a CO. There very well may be bogus, just like your paranoia!

LLS

341 posted on 09/08/2004 10:11:43 PM EDT by LibLieSlayer (Continued Job creation will not matter, if kerry "Outsources" our National Defense!)
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To: BamaDi

As I recall it, we (USAF) changed to match the rest of the DoD.

346 posted on 09/08/2004 10:16:59 PM EDT by TankerKC (R.I.P. Spc Trevor A. Win'E American Hero)
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To: rocklobster11
From you link

What has never surfaced before, reports CBS News Anchor Dan Rather, are four documents from the personal files of Col. Jerry Killian, Mr. Bush's squadron commander. They could help answer lingering questions on whether Lt. Bush received special consideration during his military service.

Why would Bush's files be in Killian's files??

347 posted on 09/08/2004 10:17:52 PM EDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: pacocat
These are memos that Killian kept

How long ago did killian pass away?

350 posted on 09/08/2004 10:23:22 PM EDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: pacocat
These are memos that Killian kept

How long ago did killian pass away?

350 posted on 09/08/2004 10:23:22 PM EDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: TC Rider; Mo1; All; cyncooper

HERE THEY ARE:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/08/60II/main641984.shtml

Scroll down on the left!!!!!!

363 posted on 09/08/2004 10:38:38 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: Howlin
Did you notice how poorly Bush's address was concealed on the "report for a physical" memo? Are they trying to leak this to open up more lines of investigation?
376 posted on 09/08/2004 10:50:29 PM EDT by Flashman_at_the_charge (A proud member of the self-preservation society)
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To: Howlin

Thanks .. this story still smells

What year did Killian pass away?

382 posted on 09/08/2004 10:57:54 PM EDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: pacocat
There is no memo in the President's National Guard File that is headed "CYA".

These are memos that Killian kept. They are not part of the President's guard file, but CBS is claiming that they are contemporaneous notes of Bush's CO.

You see the implication will be ---why would Bush's CO keep his own memos, contemporaneously?


I'm dense. What is the implication of magically appearing memos from the files of a dead man who can't tell us why he kept them?
383 posted on 09/08/2004 11:00:16 PM EDT by conservative in nyc
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To: Howlin

How can they attribute something that is unsigned?

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardaugust18.pdf
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay19.pdf

Why are the two signatures different?
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay4.pdf
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardaugust1.pdf

Something smells here.

385 posted on 09/08/2004 11:02:31 PM EDT by nonkultur
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To: Howlin; RatherBiased.com

PING to link to transcript found at post #363.

I note in the second memo Killian has advised Bush of the due date for the physical and notes Bush says he'll take care of that in Alabama IF HE STAYS IN A FLIGHT STATUS.
The memo vindicates George Bush. Just the opposite of what that ass Rather said.

386 posted on 09/08/2004 11:07:13 PM EDT by cyncooper (We're mad as Zell and we're not going to take it anymore!)
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To: nonkultur

HUH? You're not going down the kooky "they fabricated documents" line are you?

The docs are real. But they are nothing new and nothing that paints Bush in a bad light.

Much to Dan's chagrin.

389 posted on 09/08/2004 11:10:56 PM EDT by cyncooper (We're mad as Zell and we're not going to take it anymore!)
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To: cyncooper

I find it hard to believe that someone initials can change so much in their handwriting within 3 months.

391 posted on 09/08/2004 11:15:01 PM EDT by nonkultur
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To: Mo1; Howlin
The CBS article promoting this "show" says Killian died in 1984.

I'd like to compare the CBS write-up of memo #2 with the actual memo. Ready? Let's go!:

CBS:

Killian called Lt. Bush "an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot" who "performed in an outstanding manner." That is part of the public record.

But 60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents we are told were taken from Col. Killian's personal file. Among them, a never-before-seen memorandum from May 1972, where Killian writes that Lt. Bush called him to talk about "how he can get out of coming to drill from now through November."

Lt. Bush tells his commander "he is working on a campaign in Alabama…. and may not have time to take his physical." Killian adds that he thinks Lt. Bush has gone over his head, and is "talking to someone upstairs."

Col. Killian died in 1984. 60 Minutes consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic.

~snip~

Now, the actual memo:

May 19, 1972

Memo to File

Subject: Discussion with Bush; 1st Lt. Bush

1. Phone call from Bush. Discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November. I told him he could do ET for three months or transfer. Says he wants to transfer to Alabama to any unit he can get in to. Says that he is working on another campaign for his dad.

2. Physical. We talked about him getting his flight physical situation fixed before his date. Says that he will do that in Alabama if he stays in a flight status. He has this campaign to do and other things that will follow and may not have the time. I advised him of our investment in him and his commitment. He's been working with staff to come up with options and identified a unit that may accept him. I told him I had to have written acceptance before he would be transferred, but I think he's talking to someone upstairs.

END OF MEMO

Now, I think any fair-minded person can see the memo is not as CBS portrayed it.

395 posted on 09/08/2004 11:24:30 PM EDT by cyncooper (We're mad as Zell and we're not going to take it anymore!)
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To: nonkultur

I'm sorry for being so harsh in my tone before. I see CBS says they were told these memos came from Killian. I tend to believe it but WHY is CBS keeping it secret who did provide the documents to them?

(rhetorical question)

I still don't think they were forged but with the chain of custody in question it is a fair question and even CBS employed a handwriting expert.

398 posted on 09/08/2004 11:27:50 PM EDT by cyncooper (We're mad as Zell and we're not going to take it anymore!)
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To: cyncooper
even CBS employed a handwriting expert.

That is where my question is as well.
Col. Killian died in 1984. 60 Minutes consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic. Robert Strong was a friend and colleague of Col. Killian who ran the Texas Air National Guard administrative office in the Vietnam era. Strong, now a college professor, believes these documents are genuine.

Was Robert Strong the expert, and Killian's adminitrative officer?
404 posted on 09/08/2004 11:40:00 PM EDT by nonkultur
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To: cyncooper
Col. Killian died in 1984. 60 Minutes consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic.

Ummm the memo is typed .. why would they need a handwriting analyst ??

405 posted on 09/08/2004 11:47:00 PM EDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
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To: cyncooper

I think you are absolutely correct.

Plus, are there any OTHER memos that Killian wrote concerning Bush that didn't fit CBS' agenda?

406 posted on 09/08/2004 11:54:14 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: Mo1

Killian's initials and/or signature appear on most of the four memos. The analyst also was called upon to gauge the authenticity by presumably looking at style, stationary, etc.

CBS should have disclosed who gave them the documents and represented them.

I agree with Howlin that there are probably other memos on Bush as well as others but they weren't spinnable as negative (The only one in this group that looks hinky is memo 4 and that isn't about Bush directly so BD).

410 posted on 09/09/2004 12:08:15 AM EDT by cyncooper (We're mad as Zell and we're not going to take it anymore!)
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To: nonkultur

The memo's show that Killian was a little peeved at Lt. Bush after trying to get him more interested in performing AF duties at a time when young Bush had other interests. I too have written CYA memo's on subordinates and put them in the drawer. That doesn't mean their work wasn't acceptable or that they were slackers. When you're pissed at a worker under your supervision, you document it, but in this case it's not continual and other Killian reports showed a different picture. I think that if this is all they can come up with, it's nothing to worry about, but something to continue to be pissed off at.

411 posted on 09/09/2004 12:11:35 AM EDT by CedarDave (USCG Vietnam vet to DC from NM on 9/12 for the "Kerry Lied...While Good Men Died" rally. Join us!)
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To: cyncooper

To clarify my previous comment: Memo 4 does indeed mention Bush directly. What I meant was Killian writes of "pressure" about Bush, but not *from* Bush.

This memo cries out for the author to clarify but alas, he's dead. IMO CBS should not present it. It seems laughable to have to point out the obvious: Especially in light of their ignoring of credible and documented allegations about Kerry from living and breathing people that were with him in Vietnam or suffered at his hands (POWS in prisons).

Well, CBS is disgusting. No use in writing another memo about that!

412 posted on 09/09/2004 12:12:49 AM EDT by cyncooper (We're mad as Zell and we're not going to take it anymore!)
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To: Howlin
THE "New" CBS BUSH DOCUMENTS: Let's do some investigating
413 posted on 09/09/2004 12:25:57 AM EDT by hole_n_one
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To: cyncooper

I liked the part of the one memo that said "He seems to talking to someone upstairs." Stephanopoulus took this as proof he was applying pressure. I took it to mean he was praying about it.

426 posted on 09/09/2004 8:41:51 AM EDT by johnb838 (Kill them all. You know who.)
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At 11:10: 56 PM EDT, Pikamax posted:

Documents Suggest Special Treatment for Bush in Guard [post 47]
NYTIMES ^ | 09/09/04 | KATHARINE Q. SEELYE and RALPH BLUMENTHAL

Posted on 09/08/2004 11:10:56 PM EDT by Pikamax

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210662/posts

To: Pikamax
Documents from a dead man.

How convenient.

8 posted on 09/08/2004 11:16:08 PM EDT by sinkspur ("What's the point in being Pope if I can't wear the tiara?"--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: Pikamax
renewed screwtiny

Amazing how the can so cavalierly spew, after the record has been examined and found OK. Scummy.

9 posted on 09/08/2004 11:16:16 PM EDT by dasboot (<img src="XXX">)
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To: sinkspur; All

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/08/60II/main641984.shtml

There are the documents; now you see if you think they say what the NYT says they say.

11 posted on 09/08/2004 11:17:50 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: Howlin
Did you notice that NO ONE was CC'd on those memos?
27 posted on 09/08/2004 11:29:02 PM EDT by Texasforever (Kerry's new slogan "IT'S NOT THE STUPID CANDIDATE SO STOP SAYING THAT")
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To: Texasforever

And what does that mean?

32 posted on 09/08/2004 11:37:12 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: Howlin

It means he , if he actually wrote them, didn't see fit to send the memos to anyone else. So why write them in the first place?

38 posted on 09/08/2004 11:41:36 PM EDT by Texasforever (Kerry's new slogan "IT'S NOT THE STUPID CANDIDATE SO STOP SAYING THAT")
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To: Texasforever

I think they were his private papers?

44 posted on 09/08/2004 11:53:07 PM EDT by Howlin (I'm mad as Zell)
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To: Howlin
I think they were his private papers?

So why write them? If he was REALLY trying to CYA then he would have sent his concerns up the chain otherwise he would be in deep Sh%T if he had to explain later why he didn't let someone else know about a supposed violation of a direct order. Nope I don't believe these are legit documents since CBS will not say who they got them from so the originals can be examined.

46 posted on 09/08/2004 11:58:44 PM EDT by Texasforever (Kerry's new slogan "IT'S NOT THE STUPID CANDIDATE SO STOP SAYING THAT")
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To: Howlin

Howlin, every single one of these memos to file is in a proportionally spaced font, probably Palatino or Times New Roman.

In 1972 people used typewriters for this sort of thing, and typewriters used monospaced fonts.

The use of proportionally spaced fonts did not come into common use for office memos until the introduction of laser printers, word processing software, and personal computers. They were not widespread until the mid to late 90's. Before then, you needed typesetting equipment, and that wasn't used for personal memos to file. Even the Wang systems that were dominant in the mid 80's used monospaced fonts.

I am saying these documents are forgeries, run through a copier for 15 generations to make them look old.

This should be pursued aggressively.

47 posted on 09/08/2004 11:59:43 PM EDT by Buckhead
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To: Buckhead
Howlin, every single one of these memos to file is in a proportionally spaced font, probably Palatino or Times New Roman. In 1972 people used typewriters for this sort of thing, and typewriters used monospaced fonts....I am saying these documents are forgeries, run through a copier for 15 generations to make them look old. This should be pursued aggressively.

You're absolutely correct. I just looked at the files, and they don't pass the smell test. Most typewritten items from that era would have been in Courier font. And why would these items be copies, anyway, if these memos were for the guy's own personal file? They wouldn't have that run through the copy machine a zillion times aura to them in that case.

49 posted on 09/09/2004 12:06:44 AM EDT by NYCVirago
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To: NYCVirago

This is going to be hilarious, because every major news organization is running with this bogus story like it's a new toy on Christmas morning.

51 posted on 09/09/2004 12:10:53 AM EDT by Buckhead
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To: Buckhead
This is going to be hilarious, because every major news organization is running with this bogus story like it's a new toy on Christmas morning.

Exactly. It seems like that if CBS were concerned about journalistic integrity, instead of smearing Bush, they would have checked out the authenticity of these documents, something you figured out in a quick perusal of them.

52 posted on 09/09/2004 12:15:53 AM EDT by NYCVirago
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To: Buckhead
This is going to be hilarious, because every major news organization is running with this bogus story like it's a new toy on Christmas morning.

Exactly. It seems like that if CBS were concerned about journalistic integrity, instead of smearing Bush, they would have checked out the authenticity of these documents, something you figured out in a quick perusal of them.

52 posted on 09/09/2004 12:15:53 AM EDT by NYCVirago
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To: Buckhead

Further evidence of forgery is given here:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007760.php

How do we get this to CBS?

58 posted on 09/09/2004 11:42:03 AM EDT by mcg1969
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To: mcg1969; Buckhead

Maybe it should go to FoxNews instead. Although actually, I'll bet that ABC and NBC wouldn't mind slamming CBS over a forgery, even if they are partisan.

59 posted on 09/09/2004 11:42:56 AM EDT by mcg1969
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To: mcg1969; marblehead17

Do you know how hard it is to center text on a typewriter? Look at the headings of the memos. Perfect.

60 posted on 09/09/2004 11:53:20 AM EDT by Darth Reagan (your lazy butts are in this too)
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At 12:16:02 AM EDT, I put this thread up

THE "New" CBS BUSH DOCUMENTS: Let's do some investigating
www.freerepublic.com | September 9, 2004

Posted on 09/09/2004 12:16:02 AM EDT by Howlin

These are the NEW documents "discovered" by CBS with conjunction with their Ben Barnes expose/confessional tonight regarding George Bush's National Guard service.

They've gotten some interesting comments on the Live Thread, so I thought I'd give them their own thread so you people out there with the knowledge can dissect them for their accuracy/truth/existence.

Memorandum, May 4, 1972

Memo to File, May 19, 1972

Memorandum For Record,
Aug. 1, 1972


Memo to File, Aug. 18, 1973

Read a transcript of Dan Rather's interview with Ben Barnes:
1 posted on 09/09/2004 12:16:04 AM EDT by Howlin
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And the rest, as they say, is blog history!

2 posted on 09/18/2004 3:27:33 PM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: Howlin

BTTT


3 posted on 09/18/2004 3:27:57 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Howlin

You're a wonderful lady & a terrific American, ma'am. :^)


4 posted on 09/18/2004 3:28:36 PM PDT by jla
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To: jla

No, I am not; this isn't about me; it's about us.

I'm tired of hearing we are whackos.


5 posted on 09/18/2004 3:29:32 PM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: Howlin
BTTT!

7 posted on 09/18/2004 3:29:44 PM PDT by glock rocks ("Bush is playing chess, and Kerry is playing checkers." - Dick Morris)
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To: Howlin

It's been an amazing ride this past week. Thanks for all you've done.


8 posted on 09/18/2004 3:29:53 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Post #47: Note to Big Brother... the Memory Hole is Officialy CLOSED!)
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To: Howlin

This is worse than Watergate.
History was indeed made here last week. And you were part of it Howlin!
You may even make the history books!


9 posted on 09/18/2004 3:30:53 PM PDT by counterpunch (The CouNTeRPuNcH Collection - www.counterpunch.us)
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To: Howlin

A toast to all!!!!!


10 posted on 09/18/2004 3:31:03 PM PDT by woofie (This document was generated in 2004 by a computer)
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To: Tijeras_Slim

I did no more or less than anybody else on here.


11 posted on 09/18/2004 3:31:07 PM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: Howlin

Donate to Swift Boat Vets for the Truth HERE.
Sign Petition against CBS & Dan Rather HERE.
My Campaign Button Page
and My Toons Page [Updated 9-15 / 10:45PM CST]

12 posted on 09/18/2004 3:31:36 PM PDT by sonofatpatcher2 (Texas, Love & a .45-- What more could you want, campers? };^)
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To: counterpunch
History was indeed made here last week

I believe that.

And it kind of scares me......LOL.

13 posted on 09/18/2004 3:31:43 PM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: Howlin

Thx for the compilation. 'Pod.


14 posted on 09/18/2004 3:32:28 PM PDT by sauropod (Hitlary: "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.")
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To: Howlin

Great idea! Thanks. Bookmarking for reference.


15 posted on 09/18/2004 3:32:54 PM PDT by clintonh8r (Vietnam veteran against Jean-France Kerry.)
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To: sauropod

(I got tired of trying to find the threads and posts, too)


16 posted on 09/18/2004 3:33:04 PM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: discostu

don't miss this one!


17 posted on 09/18/2004 3:33:13 PM PDT by Boxsford
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To: Howlin

Bookmarked. Thank you.


18 posted on 09/18/2004 3:34:05 PM PDT by EternalHope (Boycott everything French forever. Including their vassal nations.)
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To: Howlin

BTTT ... BUT GOOD


19 posted on 09/18/2004 3:34:11 PM PDT by deport (Democrats play hardball at the peewee-league level and then lose)
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To: Howlin

You're just trying to stop the LA Times from outing you as a former Miss Universe with a PhD in particle physics who is a Conservative activist.


20 posted on 09/18/2004 3:34:36 PM PDT by Stentor
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To: deport

:-)


21 posted on 09/18/2004 3:34:39 PM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: Howlin
I did no more or less than anybody else on here.

True there's glory enough for all, but we must admit there are notable freepers among us. I'm just a thread bumping footsoldier, and couldn't be prouder just being here.

22 posted on 09/18/2004 3:35:34 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Post #47: Note to Big Brother... the Memory Hole is Officialy CLOSED!)
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To: Howlin
Thanks for the front row seats to history, Howlin. And this will be in the history books.
23 posted on 09/18/2004 3:35:34 PM PDT by solzhenitsyn ("Live Not By Lies")
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To: Howlin
No, I am not; this isn't about me; it's about us... I'm tired of hearing we are whackos.

Yes, I realize that.
But I still meant what I prev posted, because it's the truth.
And we're going to be more than vindicated this November when Dubya puts a good ol' Texas a**-kickin' on John Forged!

24 posted on 09/18/2004 3:35:55 PM PDT by jla
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To: woofie

I think we should inform CBS of how Laura Bush is allowed to go through the 10 item checkout line at Piggly-Wiggly with 11 items in her cart.


25 posted on 09/18/2004 3:37:05 PM PDT by scouse
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To: Howlin

Thank you.


26 posted on 09/18/2004 3:38:04 PM PDT by Soul Seeker
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To: Howlin

Awesome work, thank you.


27 posted on 09/18/2004 3:38:07 PM PDT by NYpeanut (gulping for air, I started crying and yelling at him, "Why did you lie to me?")
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To: Howlin

Oh you just made this all up! /sarcasm off/

Great Job Lady!


28 posted on 09/18/2004 3:41:06 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: Howlin

Great work, Howlin, and thank you for your effort on this most important set of events.


29 posted on 09/18/2004 3:42:41 PM PDT by pt17
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To: Howlin

Thanks howlin!...Filing this for "History"..


30 posted on 09/18/2004 3:43:13 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL on issues of national security for two decades)
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To: Howlin
Great stuff. A bit easier to follow if the old stuff were inside blockquotes. I couldn't find the end of the current post #1. There's a full range of opinions here, including warnings not to impale ourselves on false hopes. I was one of those skeptics until late afternoon.
31 posted on 09/18/2004 3:43:36 PM PDT by js1138 (Speedy architect of perfect labyrinths.)
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To: Howlin

No doubt about it, tankerKC and Jhouston were definitely before buckhead. They picked up on the ultimately most devastating proof that the documents were forged -- the perfectly centered, typed, header. Impossible with technology of that day. Buckhead was devastating of course, but came later.


32 posted on 09/18/2004 3:46:46 PM PDT by Mount Athos
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: Howlin

Great post. And it doesn't surprise me coming from Free Republic and the New Media.


34 posted on 09/18/2004 3:48:38 PM PDT by writer33 (Try this link: http://www.whiskeycreekpress.com/books/electivedecisions.shtml)
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To: js1138
Well, shoot...I don't know HOW that happened! I thought I checked all the links out. Thanks for pointing it out:

THE "New" CBS BUSH DOCUMENTS: Let's do some investigating

35 posted on 09/18/2004 3:48:48 PM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: Howlin

this is a great idea!


36 posted on 09/18/2004 3:49:23 PM PDT by ruoflaw
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To: Howlin

It's an honor to share these boards with you, Howlin. Fantastic job you've done here!


37 posted on 09/18/2004 3:50:19 PM PDT by Humidston (COMUNIST PARTY (cpusa.org) USED TO HAVE A DIRECT LINK TO MOVEON.ORG. WHERE IS IT TODAY???)
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To: Howlin
Thank you ALL!!!! Free Republic Rocks!

You know what? I'm proud to be a FReeper!

And I'm especially proud of the company we keep here. God Bless you all!

38 posted on 09/18/2004 3:52:10 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Howlin

Good job! Thanks.


39 posted on 09/18/2004 3:54:11 PM PDT by Jean S
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To: Howlin
George Orwell was wrong Howlin.

We are Big Brother, not the government.

40 posted on 09/18/2004 3:54:14 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Howlin

bump


41 posted on 09/18/2004 3:55:44 PM PDT by stylin_geek (Koffi: 0, G.W. Bush: (I lost count))
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To: Howlin

Outstanding job. Bookmarked!


42 posted on 09/18/2004 4:04:16 PM PDT by nunya bidness (There's no peaceful way to get rid of the governments that abuse the rights of people - PJ O'Rourke)
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To: Howlin

Howlin, thanks for laying it all out for us. That shoots a big gaping hole in the theory that Buckhead was a VRWC plant. I urge any doubters to simply monitor the next "live thread" about any subject ... the AM talk shows, football, etc. ... and you will observe the same terrier-like deconstruction of the event and realize that the famous Howlin / Tanker KC / Buckhead thread (and a lot more names as Howlin's post shows us) was not extraordinary. In fact, I'd say Buckhead was pretty late with his shot but he was the first to score a direct hit.


43 posted on 09/18/2004 4:06:34 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (hey, hey, ho, ho ... Kerry, sign the one-eight-oh!)
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To: NonValueAdded
That shoots a big gaping hole in the theory that Buckhead was a VRWC plant

Precisely.

44 posted on 09/18/2004 4:07:25 PM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: Howlin

Thanks for posting that.


45 posted on 09/18/2004 4:08:22 PM PDT by occutegirl ("She is too fond of books, and it has turned her brain." ~ Louisa May Alcott)
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To: Howlin

PS Nice touch documenting pacocat's #187. brutal! :)


46 posted on 09/18/2004 4:09:40 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (hey, hey, ho, ho ... Kerry, sign the one-eight-oh!)
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To: NonValueAdded

make that #241


47 posted on 09/18/2004 4:10:44 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (hey, hey, ho, ho ... Kerry, sign the one-eight-oh!)
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To: Howlin; TankerKC; Buckhead
Thank you for assembling all that together, and a huge (hugh) thank you to TankerKC, Buckhead and yourself for your parts in pointing out CBS/Rather's attempt to hijack the election. Yeah yeah yeah, I know if it hadn't been you it would have been another - that's what FR is all about. Still... thanks! :o)

I'm so grateful and proud to be a member here.
48 posted on 09/18/2004 4:11:33 PM PDT by Titan Magroyne (Uniform of the day: Freepajamas)
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To: Howlin; Buckhead; All

Excellent job, Howlin! Thank you for all of that hard work.

BTW, does anybody have pictures of Burnett that were captured off the HardBall program? A friend of mine who works for a major newspaper is looking for them, but they don't seem to be online any more. In fact, there doesn't seem to be ANY pictures of him online except for maybe one of him when he was 17.


49 posted on 09/18/2004 4:15:17 PM PDT by JudyB1938 ("A paranoid schizophrenic is somebody who just found out what's going on." - Wm S. Burroughs, Jr.)
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To: Howlin

BOOKMARKING.. this is an awsome recap. I was out of town with no Internet connection and missed the important stuff.... heard it unfold on talk radio and Fox news.


50 posted on 09/18/2004 4:20:03 PM PDT by Apple Pan Dowdy (... as American as Apple Pie)
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