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For Swift boat vet, words still sting
Concord Monitor ^ | Sept. 18, 2004 | AMANDA PARRY

Posted on 09/18/2004 6:03:26 PM PDT by FairOpinion

very few years since the early 1990s, Bub Morgan has met up with Navy pals from his time in Vietnam. But at a 2003 reunion in Norfolk, Va., Morgan was surprised and unhappy to spy a vet he hadn't seen in years.

"When John Kerry arrived I said to my friend, 'What is he doing here?'" said Morgan, a Wilmot resident and former officer in charge of a Navy Swift boat.

Morgan's disdain for the Massachusetts senator stemmed from Kerry's assertion in the early 1970s that Americans had committed atrocities in Vietnam.

Earlier this year, with Kerry running for president, Morgan was one of 192 Navy veterans to sign a letter asking Kerry to release his military records and to "correct misconceptions" about his conduct in Vietnam. The letter from the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth - now numbering close to 260 - also accused Kerry of "grossly and knowingly (distorting) the conduct of American soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen."

"We wanted the American people to know the truth about Kerry's service," Morgan said. "We feel the American people should know what kind of character this man has."

Originally from Phoenixville, Pa., Morgan served as the officer in charge of a Swift boat from December 1968 to mid-November 1969. Designed for coastal patrol, the 50-foot aluminum boats were used to ship supplies, South Vietnamese troops, special forces and medical teams up Vietnam's muddy rivers.

Initially a member of Coastal Division 14, Morgan was soon transferred to Coastal Division 11, stationed on the island of An Thoi. It was the same division with which Kerry had served.

Kerry was gone by the time Morgan arrived at An Thoi,

sent home after four months based on a military rule that allowed men leave if they had received three Purple Hearts. (Kerry had served a previous tour aboard the destroyer USS Gridley, although all of his wounds were received during his Swift boat duty.)

Many of the men who were in An Thoi with Morgan had also been there with Kerry. From what Morgan heard, Kerry had been unpopular. Some officers questioned his conduct, he said.

By the early 1970s, Kerry was active with the organization Vietnam Veterans Against the War and testified before a Senate committee on atrocities committed by U.S. soldiers.

Later, on Meet the Press, Kerry said he and other Swift boat veterans had routinely committed war crimes.

For Morgan, it was a slap in the face. He had served in the same place at almost the same time as Kerry. And yet, he said, he had never witnessed or even heard of war crimes or atrocities being committed.

"He provided no evidence," Morgan said. "There were no affidavits, no real investigations. Yet he went in front of the country and told people that this had happened."

Already Morgan had been dealing with what had become the stigma of serving in Vietnam. He often kept quiet about his service because to mention it invited tirades.

"There was this stereotype of Vietnam veterans," he said. "We were supposedly all crazy. We had supposedly all done horrible things to the Vietnamese. That was already the case when I got back, but guys like Kerry and the VVAW made it worse. They turned my stomach."

Some of Morgan's most enjoyable missions with the Swift boat fleet were ferrying and distributing food and medical supplies to South Vietnamese villages.

"We brought medical teams to provide vaccinations," he said. "We gave the children candy. Wherever we went, we drew a crowd. A waving crowd."

But while Morgan believed Kerry was lying, he made no attempt to counter his testimony. All Morgan wanted to do was move on with his life, and he hoped Kerry's influence would fade.

A graduate of Bucknell University, Morgan moved to Connecticut and worked as an investment banker. He married and had three sons. Ten years ago he moved with his family to a farm in Wilmot.

From time to time, Morgan would hear about Kerry at Swift boat reunions from fellow vets who had read about his latest political victory. But he didn't pay much attention until earlier this year, when Kerry triumphed in the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary.

It was around this time that Tour of Duty, a book on Kerry's military service, was published. Written by historian Douglas Brinkley, it was based on Kerry's journal entries and letters and on interviews with fellow sailors and family members.

The book stirred public discussion once again about alleged war crimes by Swift boat veterans. He took offense that Kerry would promote his war record after he had spent so many years protesting the war.

"I think we decided we'd had enough," Morgan said.

Morgan attended a meeting of Swift boat vets in Washington, D.C. He put his name on the open letter to Kerry. Right now he doesn't have any activities planned with the group, although he said if he were asked to get involved in something, he would consider it.

Morgan said his decision to participate had nothing to do with party politics. He is registered independent, and he said he'd be doing the same thing if Kerry were a Republican.

"I just felt it was about time we all spoke up," he said. "I feel like Kerry has been using us for his political career for a long time. It needs to stop."


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: kerry; sbv; swiftboatveterans; swiftvets; vietnamveterans
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See the Swifties latest ad. Click on above link.

1 posted on 09/18/2004 6:03:26 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
Morgan said his decision to participate had nothing to do with party politics. He is registered independent, and he said he'd be doing the same thing if Kerry were a Republican.

"I just felt it was about time we all spoke up," he said. "I feel like Kerry has been using us for his political career for a long time. It needs to stop."


2 posted on 09/18/2004 6:07:30 PM PDT by FairOpinion (FIGHT TERRORISM! VOTE BUSH/CHENEY 2004.)
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To: FairOpinion

God bless the Swifties!!!!


3 posted on 09/18/2004 6:07:35 PM PDT by benick_9969
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To: FairOpinion

I admire the Swift Boat vets for their courage and character. But most of all, I admire them for their restraint. If John Kerry had personally stabbed me in the back the way he stabbed all 'Nam vets in the back, and I had occasion to be in the same room as that S.O.B., we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.


4 posted on 09/18/2004 6:07:44 PM PDT by Prime Choice (The Religion of Peace ISN'T.)
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To: FairOpinion

The parade these guys never got will be Kerry, with his downcast sycophants, striding to a podium on election night, November 2, to throw in the towel.


5 posted on 09/18/2004 6:08:21 PM PDT by sinkspur ("I heard that the traditionalists have taken over the FR religion forum"--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: FairOpinion

Kerry needs to -

SIGN THE FORM!

SIGN THE FORM!

SIGN THE FORM!!

Great for a chant!


6 posted on 09/18/2004 6:09:41 PM PDT by austinaero
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To: sinkspur

You got that right!!!!!!


7 posted on 09/18/2004 6:10:05 PM PDT by benick_9969
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To: sinkspur

I agree. Kerry's defeat will be a vindication for all Vietnam Vets. The Swifties especially can be proud, that they contributed significantly to it, and may even claim major responsibility, since Kerry started to sink, when the Swifties started to tell the truth about him.


8 posted on 09/18/2004 6:11:34 PM PDT by FairOpinion (FIGHT TERRORISM! VOTE BUSH/CHENEY 2004.)
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To: austinaero

I read something like,

Hey, hey, hi, ho,
Kerry sign the 180!

( mimicking the anti-war chant from those days)


9 posted on 09/18/2004 6:12:43 PM PDT by FairOpinion (FIGHT TERRORISM! VOTE BUSH/CHENEY 2004.)
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To: FairOpinion
Sooner or later, the truth will out, even from the heart of Taxachusetts.


10 posted on 09/18/2004 6:14:37 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: All

The cool thing is, and I truly believe this,,,

the Swifties aren't done when the election is over. They are not necessarily tried to the election. Obviously the election is a concern, a major one. The questions will persist, and I hope we can help the veterans push and push and pressure this a**hole into a total box.

He makes my stomach turn. I don't know how he sleeps at night really.


11 posted on 09/18/2004 6:18:42 PM PDT by austinaero
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To: Cicero

Mr. Morgan, hope you're following the campaign. Kerry's words hurt you in 1971, but his words are undoing his lame bid in 2004. Go Swifties!


12 posted on 09/18/2004 6:18:57 PM PDT by Wardawg (Hanoi John Forgery le Kerrie was here.)
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To: FairOpinion
Payback is sweet, after 33 years of abuse by Kerry and his evil "rat party" with their endless lies and character assassinations of the Swift Boat heros.

The quiet courage of these long-suffering veterans will be honored by the complete destruction of their arch-enemies, as Kerry and the democrats go down to a well deserved massive defeat, 33 years overdue.

13 posted on 09/18/2004 6:21:38 PM PDT by FormerACLUmember (Free Republic is 21st Century Samizdat)
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To: FairOpinion

Minor point, but An Thoi is a harbor/village and former base at southern end of Phu Quoc Island. About 60 miles off coast of RVN. Near Cambodia/Vietnam border.


14 posted on 09/18/2004 6:30:23 PM PDT by donozark (I fought at the Battle of Kimchi Ridge. The gas...the gas...it was HORRIBLE!)
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To: FairOpinion

The blood on Kerry’s hands

By Jim Bancroft, Sep 19, 2004

 

    Every action has a reaction. We sometimes refer to Newton’s Third Law in ways that do not refer to physical science, but to social and emotional constructs, events we see or hear of, events we perceive of happening or events that we experience ourselves.

 

    Newton’s Third Law of Energy is plainly stated as:

 

"Every action has an equal and opposite reaction"

 

          Our actions as young adults often shape our own lives in ways we do not consider at the time, nor can we foresee the results of our actions in how they affect others in the future. A single drive in an automobile can lead to an accident due to a loss of attention on the road, having tragic consequences for those involved.

 

    Engaging in political activity that is riotous, angry, and controversial, can also lead to unintended consequences, events that were never planned or foreseen, nor predicted.

 

    The willful engagement in activity that is riotous, angry, violent, or controversial; the drawing of attention to your cause by your actions: to see that your actions encourage or embolden others to join in with your cause should bring the greatest pause in your own personal behavior, for it must be plainly seen that your actions can then bring about unintended consequences that are outside of your own personal control, involving the emotions and reactions of others who you may or may not know.

 

    The more violent your initial action was, the reaction may be more violent, more controversial, more confrontational. And it will be you who initiated it because of your first actions, whether the end result was intended or foreseen or not.

 

 

    In my life time, I have seen my country and our politics change in many ways. As a child, I watched the Vietnam War on television; I saw the body counts, I saw the nation fixated on the war shown on the TV screen, I cheered on the troops, and I felt sorrow when I saw the caskets and heard of our losses.

 

    I also saw the anti-war protests on TV. I had to have my Dad explain some words and terms used by the Police in Detroit in 1968 after the riots in how they described the actions of the anti-war people who claimed to be for peace, but seemed to only come to fight and disrupt.

 

    Their actions had consequences. The American people started to see our media play over and again the masses of people who looked normal sometimes, but also some that were the Hippie looking type people. Mostly, we saw abnormal behavior portrayed on television and in the news as being common.

 

    We saw our nation change.

 

    One of the people who most affected us, was John Kerry. John Kerry’s association with these anti-war groups changed our nation forever. Most people see it, but, I wonder how many others don’t.

 

    John Kerry’s actions, and the actions of those who openly protested against our country during the Vietnam War, made it socially acceptable to hate the US while living here, and to falsely claim what they are doing is Patriotism. The actions of the Vietnam protester were to make the call for Socialist or Communist type changes in our government system an accepted thing.

 

    But that is not all. By their actions, a war was ended earlier than expected. Not in a way that was in our favor, but in a way that embarrassed our country even though we were winning the war militarily.

 

    The actions of the anti-war groups affected national policy. We had anti-war groups start up earlier than 1968 when John Kerry entered Vietnam, true, but their acceptance and liveliness was not noticeable. It wasn’t until after John Kerry got home and started a group called Vietnam Veteran’s Against the War, VVAW, with his friend Jane Fonda that the openly socially acceptable participation in American anti-war activity took place in common American thought.

 

    This was a significant group, in that, for the first time in our nation’s history that I can find, a group of veteran’s who had fought in a war, founded a group that was against national policy in calling for the war to end; not with a victory by our armed forces, but with a defeat of our armed forces. This group was calling for our own nation, THEIR own nation, to remove all troops from Vietnam, admit that our actions there were morally wrong.

 

    They were calling for their nation to lose against the enemy, to give up the fight against the Communist system which genuinely threatened the nation of Vietnam since the late 1940’s and early 1950’s. And because of Vietnam’s geographic location, the seaways of South-East Asia would be threatened with a puppet government run by either China or the Soviet Union in direct opposition to the United States as a nation in order to spread their communist philosophy through the end of a gun.

 

    And they did all this with the backing of our national media, and with all the backing of the political party that was against the President who was in power. . . who had absolutely nothing to do with starting the war in the first place.

 

    These peace groups, led by John Kerry and Jane Fonda and Bill Clinton and their sort, caused our government to step back away from a national commitment to our allies in the South-East Asia peninsula, abandon our war against Communism in Vietnam, and in general, stop our pro-active response to the Communist threat that was a definite reality in the world then.

 

    I titled this paper, “THE BLOOD ON KERRY’S HANDS” for a reason, and that reason all goes back to Vietnam and the effect that his participation in leading a group like VVAW had on the United States and the world.

 

    The connection between VVAW and the peace groups and the early end of the Vietnam War without a US victory against the Communist forces fighting in South Vietnam has not been explored in depth by anyone that I am aware of. There are some things that are important to remember from this time period that can only be examined in hindsight; namely, What happened to the US and it’s policy in foreign affairs immediately following the Vietnam War, and why?

 

    At the time John Kerry left Vietnam, it was early 1969. According to records kept by the US government, by the end of 1968, the US losses in personnel were 36,152 persons killed in action from service in Vietnam from all causes.

http://www.archives.gov/research_room/research_topics/vietnam_war_casualty_lists/statistics.html#year

 

     This is important for one significant reason: 1968 was the TET offensive, the last gasp of the North Vietnamese, a large offensive where the American people were told by a media that the war was un-winnable. But was this the case?

    Here is a short synopsis of just what happened during the TET Offensive of 1968:

Myth: The Tet Offensive Was a Communist Victory

The 1968 Tet offensive was a total and complete miltary disaster for the North Vietnamese Communists no matter how you look at it. If you measure victory by territory gained or enemy killed, the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong failed dismally in their attacks.

The NVA and VC had counted on a "People's Uprising" to carry them to victory, however there was no such uprising. They did exactly what the American military wanted them to do. They massed in large formations that were incredibly vulnerable to the awesome fire support the U.S. Military was able to bring to bear on them in a coordinated and devastating manner.

The NVA and VC attacked only ARVN installations with the exception of the US Embassy in Saigon. Despite reports to the contrary by all major television news networks and the print media, the VC sapper team of 15 men never entered the chancery building and all 15 VC were dead within 6 hours of the attack. They caused no damage to any property and managed to kill 4 US Army MPs, and one Marine guard. The South Vietnamese Police tasked with guarding the Embassy fled at the first sound of gunfire.

The NVA/VC launched major attacks on Saigon, Hue, Quang Tri City, Da Nang, Nha Trang, Qui Nhon, Kontum City, Ban Me Thout, My Tho, Can Tho, and Ben Tre. With the exception of the old imperial city of Hue, the NVA/VC were forced to retreat within 24 hours of the beginning of the offensive. In the process they suffered devastating losses among the southern VC cadres. Using the southern VC as the spearhead of these attacks was an intentional device on the part of the North Vietnamese politcal leadership. They did not want to share power with the southerners after the war, so they sent them out to what was inevitable slaughter. The NVA mainforce battalions were held in "reserve" according to Vo Nguyen Giap, in order to "exploit any breakthroughs".

In the first week of the attack the NVA/VC lost 32,204 confirmed killed, and 5,803 captured. US losses were 1,015 KHA, while ARVN losses were 2,819 killed. ARVN losses were higher because the NVA/VC, reluctant to enter into a set-piece battle with US forces, attacked targets defended almost exclusively by South Vietnamese troops.

Casualties among the people whom the NVA/VC claimed to be "liberating" were in excess of 7,000, with an additional 5,000 tortured and murdered by the NVA/VC in Hue and elsewhere. In Hue alone, allied forces discovered over 2,800 burial sites containing the mutilated bodies of local Vietnamese teachers, doctors, and political leaders.

http://www.11thcavnam.com/education/myth_the_tet_offensive_was_a_com.htm

 

    General Vo Nguyen Giap, the leader of the North Vietnamese Army during the war, had these comments to make concerning the efforts of anti-war protesters like John Kerry, Jane Fonda, and VVAW, which Jane Fonda was the co-founder with John Kerry; this article is reprinted from NEWSMAX:

 

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/5/1/110432.shtml

Gen. Giap Thanks Kerry & Co. for Anti-war Protests

Celebrating the 29th anniversary of the fall of Saigon, the North Vietnamese general who led his forces to victory said Friday he was grateful to leaders of the U.S. anti-war movement, one of whom was presidential candidate John Kerry.

"I would like to thank them," said Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap, now 93, without mentioning Kerry by name. "Any forces that wish to impose their will on other nations will surely fail," he added.

Reuters, which first reported Giap's comments, suggested that the former enemy general was mindful of Kerry's role in leading some of the highest-profile anti-war protests of the entire Vietnam War.

Before the British wire service quoted Gen. Giap, it noted:

"The Vietnam War, known in Vietnam as the American War, has become a hot issue in the U.S. presidential race with Democrat John Kerry drawing attention to his service and President Bush's Republicans disparaging Kerry's later anti-war stand."

North Vietnamese Col. Bui Tin, who served under Gen. Giap on the general staff of the North Vietnamese army, received South Vietnam's unconditional surrender on April 30, 1975.

In an interview with the Wall Street Journal after his retirement, Col. Tin explicitly credited leaders of the U.S. anti-war movement, saying they were "essential to our strategy."

"Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9AM to follow the growth of the antiwar movement," Col. Tin told the Journal.

Visits to Hanoi by Kerry anti-war allies Jane Fonda and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and others, he said, "gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses."

"We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war," the North Vietnamese military man explained.

Kerry did much the same thing in widely covered speeches such as the one he delivered to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in April 1971.

"Through dissent and protest [America] lost the ability to mobilize a will to win," Col. Tin concluded.

    These are not insignificant statements. These North Vietnamese military men are crediting the American Anti-War movement with being the reason they held out in time of war. The obvious conflict in this statement of theirs is, if there was NO ANTI-WAR movement in the US, these North Vietnamese military men would have NOT been optimistic about the outcome of the war. They would have been approaching the US in an attitude of military weakness, not military strength.

 

    This is undeniable. In fact, there are some more direct quotes from General Giap on this very subject.

 

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/2/10/222651.shtml

Gen. Giap: Kerry's Group Helped Hanoi Defeat U.S.

The North Vietnamese general in charge of the military campaign that finally drove the U.S. out of South Vietnam in 1975 credited a group led by Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry with helping him achieve victory.

In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. - according to Fox News Channel war historian Oliver North.

That's why, he predicted on Tuesday, the Vietnam War issue "is going to blow up in Kerry's face."

"People are going to remember Gen. Giap saying if it weren't for these guys [Kerry's group], we would have lost," North told radio host Sean Hannity.

"The Vietnam Veterans Against the War encouraged people to desert, encouraged people to mutiny - some used what they wrote to justify fragging officers," noted the former Marine lieutenant colonel, who earned two purple hearts in Vietnam.

"John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands," North said.   

    Finally, what must be shown here, are the true and accurate statements of an American who was held as Prisoners of War in Vietnam, and a comment written by John Kerry’s own Executive Officer from when he served on the USS Gridley.

    This first statement below is an excerpt written to television host Joe Scarborough from Col. George E. "Bud" Day, the former cell mate of Senator John McCain in the Hanoi Hilton:

    I was a POW of the Vietnamese in Hanoi in 1971, and I am aware that the testimony of John Kerry, the actions of Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden, and the radical left; all caused the commies to conclude that if they hung on, they would win. North Vietnamese General Bui Tin commented that every day the Communist leadership listened to world news over the radio to follow the growth of the anti-war movement. Visits to Hanoi by Jane Fonda and Ramsey Clark gave them confidence to hold in the face of battlefield reverses. The guts of it was that propaganda from the anti-war group was part of their combat strategy.

While the Commies were hanging on, innumerable U.S. Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Air Force members were being killed in combat. Every battle wound to Americans after Kerry's misdirected testimony is related to Kerry's untruthfulness. John Kerry contributed to every one of these deaths with his lies about U.S. atrocities in Vietnam. He likewise defamed the U.S. with our allies and supporters.

His conduct also extended the imprisonment of the Vietnam Prisoners of War, of which I was one. I am certain of at least one POW death after his testimony, which might have been prevented with an earlier release of the POWs.

. . . .

I draw a direct comparison of General Benedict Arnold of the Revolutionary War, to Lieutenant John Kerry. Both went off to war, fought, and then turned against their country. General Arnold crossed over to the British for money and position. John Kerry crossed over to the Vietnamese with his assistance to the anti-war movement, and his direct liason with the Vietnamese diplomats in Paris. His reward. Political gain. Senator..United States.

    This next excerpt is from Captain J. F. Kelly, who as Commander Kelly was XO of the USS GRIDLEY in the period of 1967 and 1968 when Kerry was aboard.

http://home.nycap.rr.com/pwcarter/the%20kerry%20page.html

                   Every candidate for public office probably has some excess baggage to carry around that he’d rather not have. With Senator John Kerry, it’s undoubtedly his anti-Vietnam War activism that followed his heroic naval service in Vietnam

                   Aside from a Christmas card and an aborted telephone call, I didn’t hear further from John until I read about his anti-war antics including his appearance with Hanoi Jane Fonda and the famous episode of throwing medals onto the capitol steps during a protest.

                   While he was protesting against the war, many of us were still fighting in it. Many of us felt betrayed that one of our own, a decorated hero, would give comfort to the enemy by such actions. Think what you want about the wisdom in getting involved in that war, two presidents, both Democrats, committed the armed forces they commanded to fight it. Make no mistake; actions by the likes of Fonda and Kerry were damaging to our morale, gave aid and comfort to the forces we were fighting and altered the eventual outcome in a manner less favorable to the United States than if they had kept their mouths shut. The time for anti-war protests is before the war starts. 

            There is no question that John Kerry earned his decorations and that he put his life at risk in the service of his country. There is no doubt in my mind, moreover, that he has the intelligence to serve as president. But there is also no doubt in my mind that his anti-war activities while our troops were still fighting, dying and being tortured in filthy Vietnam prisons were despicable. 

            For that reason, even aside from his anti-defense voting record in the Senate, he is one ex-shipmate that I could never support as commander-in-chief of the armed forces.

 

 

    And that is the point of this letter. The actions of John Kerry and the anti-war protesters caused American men and women to be killed in war time in Vietnam, the very war where they insisted we withdraw and claim we were at fault; where Americans were all war criminals and “baby-killers”. And it was a war we were winning.

    According to American records, a total of 58,193 American personnel died in Vietnam from all causes, with 36,152 having died by the end of 1968 when John Kerry entered Vietnam. Kerry entered the Swift Boat Service in December of 1968 and served only 4 months before being sent home after his third Purple Heart.

    In 1969, 11,616 American personnel died, and that is the year Kerry started protesting against the Vietnam war after his service. He had already made public statements against the war at the speech  he gave at his Yale graduation:

"What was an excess of isolationism has become an excess of interventionism. And this Vietnam War has found our policy makers forcing Americans into a strange corner . . . that if victory escapes us, it would not be the fault of those who lead, but of the doubters who stabbed them in the back -- notions all too typical of an America that had to find Americans to blame for the takeover in China by the communists, and then for the takeover in Cuba.

"The United States must, I think, bring itself to understand that the policy of intervention that was right for Western Europe does not and cannot find the same application to the rest of the world.

"We have not really lost the desire to serve. We question the very roots of what we are serving.''

    Kerry’s actions after the war began as early as 1969 while an Admiral’s aide:

In October 1969, while Kerry was still on active duty assigned to Admiral Schlech, Kerry was flying Adam Walinsky (Robert F. Kennedy's former speech writer), around New York state to deliver anti-war.speeches.
BY Jan. 3, 1970, Kerry had become so inspired by Walinsky's anti-war beliefs that he petitioned Admiral Schlech, "to tell his boss that his conscientious dictated that he protest the war, that he wanted out of the Navy immediately so that he could run for congress."


Admiral Schlech consented and Kerry received an honorable discharge from the Navy six months early.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/page2.html

 

    Kerry was full force into the VVAW by early 1970. The anti-war movement was well known by then and many protests were held including the ill fated Kent State incident.

    John Kerry did not just protest in the US because of his beliefs, he also traveled to meet the Communist leaders of North Vietnam in Paris.

John Kerry, in sworn testimony before the Senate in April 1971, said he met with the North Vietnamese and Vietcong delegations in Paris in May 1970. He said they discussed their peace proposals -- especially the eight points of Madam Binh. Kerry strongly recommended that the Senate accept those proposals.

I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points...

…I realize that even my visits in Paris, precedents had been set by Senator McCarthy and others, in a sense are on the borderline of private individuals negotiating, et cetera.”

In the ensuing months, Kerry became even more strident in his insistence that the US accept Madam Binh's (and the NVM and VC's) peace proposals.

Meanwhile, other representatives of Kerry's group, the Vietnam Veterans Against The War (VVAW ), met with the NVM and VC delegations in Paris, in March 1971. They were even photographed sitting at a table with them, as in a photo displayed in Winter Soldiers, by Richard Stacewicz, page 284. 

Subsequently, VVAW representatives met with the North Vietnamese and Vietcong delegations on numerous occasions, both in Paris and even in Hanoi.

The VVAW even signed a treaty with the North Vietnamese which included all of Madam Binh's points, as noted by the historian of the anti-war movement, Gerald Nicosia, his book Home To War: 

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3778

    The FBI has recently released the files on VVAW and can be found here, documenting the knowledge of Kerry’s visit to Paris to speak with the North Vietnamese:

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=VVAWFBI

    These actions in meeting with foreign leaders who are directly engaged in treaty negotiations with the United States Government border on treason.

Did Navy Lt. Kerry violate The UCMJ?
August 23rd, 2004

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) is a federal law, enacted by Congress. Its provisions are contained in United States Code, Title 10, Chapter 47. Article 36 of the UCMJ allows the President to prescribe rules and procedures to implement the provisions of the UCMJ. The President does this via the Manual for Courts-Martial (MCM) which is an executive order that contains detailed instructions for implementing military law for the United States Armed Forces.

The UCMJ states:

ART. 104. AIDING THE ENEMY 

Any person who--

(1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or

(2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;

shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3778

    John Kerry’s meeting with the North Vietnamese, the very people who are killing Americans in the war, borders precariously close to treason, enough to be investigated.

    What must be reinforced here, however, is the effect of these actions concerning the point of this paper: What did the North Vietnamese say about why they prolonged the war?

It was the American Anti-War movement.

    John Kerry was a part of that movement, a major leader of that movement.

    The North Vietnamese publicly stated that the American anti-war movement encouraged them to continue to fight.

    The next connection is impossible to avoid: John Kerry’s actions directly lead to American servicemen and women to be killed in combat because of the encouragement his actions gave to the enemy, the North Vietnamese.

    From 1970 until the end of American involvement in 1975, 9,586 Americans were killed in Vietnam. Killed because American anti-war protests encouraged the North Vietnamese to continue fighting the war.

    It is not a stretch to see that the actions of John Kerry and Jane Fonda directly lead to the deaths of thousands of Americans in the Vietnam War.

    Is this the only list of failures or deaths caused by the American Anti-war movement? Sadly, no.

    American foreign policy was changed dramatically after the Vietnam War. American military dominance was questioned, new weapons programs were held back, American intelligence operations were ended and our CIA was attacked and almost shut down, efforts to remain technologically superior were thwarted at times, and material replacement of military hardware was slowed or refused after 1975.

    American prestige was shattered globally. The newspapers of the world all spoke of the American loss in Vietnam, the movie industry put out movies showing Vietnam veterans as psychotic drug abusers or wife beaters and social misfits.

    But most importantly, it shattered American resolve to fight when necessary. The Democratic majority in Congress would enact the 1973 War Powers Resolution, forbidding the president from sending U.S. troops into combat for more than ninety days without congressional consent. Congress increasingly emphasized the limits of American power, and put a cap on the cost Americans would pay in pursuit of specific foreign policy objectives. The fear of getting bogged down in another Vietnam-like quagmire made a majority of Americans reluctant to intervene militarily in Third World countries. It caused American public opinion to sway and support a political party over another, even though the party portrayed in a negative light had nothing to do with causing the war and never received the respect it deserved with ending it without a total disaster for the American public had we followed the advice of the anti-war protesters.

http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/vietnam/postwar.htm

 

 

 

    This lack of resolve showed in 1975 when the North Vietnamese invaded the South and began a slaughter, killing as many as 1 Million people, causing over 1.5 Million to 2 Million people to flee in small boats to save their very lives.

    This lack of resolve showed later that year when the Khymer Rouge began their systematic genocide in Cambodia, leaving the US powerless to intervene to stop the killing, and over 1 Million people were slaughtered.

    This lack of resolve showed even in 1979 when the American Embassy was overrun in Tehran, Iran, and then President Jimmy Carter failed to respond with forceful effort with our military in response to the new world threat: Islamic Terrorism.

    This lack of resolve showed when then President Ronald Reagan failed to fully make a military effort in Lebanon because of a lack of backing in the House and Senate.

    This lack of resolve showed when the Contras were supported for a year or two, only to have the Democrat Senate and House remove the means to provide for their actions against a Communist dictatorship in Nicaragua.

    By then, it was almost too late. American resolve was a joke. It took the efforts of Ronald Reagan to rebuild our military out of the shambles that Jimmy Carter left it. It took the efforts of George H. W. Bush in defending the nation of Kuwait in the first Gulf War.

    But, once again, an anti-war person came to the forefront, Bill Clinton, who during the 1990’s, ignored the obvious threat of radical Islam that the world was facing.

    And again, in 2001, with a lot of words, people like John Kerry started blaming someone else instead of the bad guys for 9/11. John Kerry voted for war against the Taliban, and then again voted for war against Saddam Hussein. 

    But what happened next? The Anti-War movement came out of hiding, and in a war where the enemy directly provided aide and support for terrorists who exploded bombs on American soil, anti-war activists have once again divided the American people, and John Kerry is one of their leaders . . .again.

    It is not that much of a stretch to see what happened from John Kerry’s actions in the 1960’s to today, and how people like him affected our national government policy through their activism and actions.

    By leading and organizing protests against the war, John Kerry encouraged the North Vietnamese to continue the war, and thousands of Americans died...

    Over a Million South Vietnamese died...

    Over a Million Cambodians died . . .

    American prestige was tarnished. . .

    Islamic terrorism was born and not stopped because of American reluctance to engage in combat after Vietnam, reluctance which was called the “Vietnam Syndrome” . . .

    Communism attempted to overthrow more countries in our own hemisphere . . .

    An anti-war leader, Bill Clinton, carrying on the same traditions as John Kerry, failed to stop the obvious growing threat of Islamic Fundamentalist sponsored terrorism . . .

    And now, we are engaged in a world wide terror war. The United States appears to be alone in it, too. All because of the pacifism and anti-Americanism of the American Anti-War movement of the 1960’s.

    That’s when it started in our generation.   John Kerry has blood on his hands.

Jim Bancroft is a former Marine who served in the United States Marine Corps from 1977 to 1981, and served off the coast of Iran for the Hostage Rescue Attempt of April 24-25, 1980.


15 posted on 09/18/2004 6:32:08 PM PDT by RaceBannon (KERRY FLED . . . WHILE GOOD MEN BLED!!)
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To: FairOpinion
I'm a war hero and I've got the medals to prove it. I was born and raised in Viet Nam before I wasn't born and raised in Viet Nam, and I've got the medals to prove it. Oh, did I mention that I am a war hero? Well I've got the medals to prove it. So there!

My name is John Kerry and I approve this message.

.

16 posted on 09/18/2004 6:35:02 PM PDT by GeekDejure ( LOL = Liberals Obey Lucifer !!!)
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To: austinaero
... the Swifties aren't done when the election is over. They are not necessarily tried to the election.

I believe O'Neill. He says that in large part, speaking up now, after 35 years, is because Kerry is running to be the CinC. The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth weren't happy with Kerry as a Senator, but they had no burning desire to take him out of that position either.

O'Neill has also been asked, "What if Kerry is elected?" His answer is that the SBVfT see their job as informing the American people regarding John Kerry's character. If, so informed, the American people elect him, "so be it." They won't be happy about it, obviously, but that is how our system of government is arranged, and the SBVfT will get on with their lives.

I can see, OTOH, a more lasting effort on the part of the American people to make amends for the awful treatment given to Vietnam veterans, and to show them the proper respect due to ALL honorable military personnel.

17 posted on 09/18/2004 6:40:09 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: FairOpinion

I wish my uncle were still alive today....he was treated very badly when he returned home from Vietnam. I remember how upset he was when he saw the parades the first Gulf War soldiers received when they came home.

I'm sure he would take great satisfaction in watching John Kerry lose the Presidential election!!!!


18 posted on 09/18/2004 6:41:52 PM PDT by Arpege92 (We're here! We're Conservative! And we're in your face! - theDentist)
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To: FairOpinion
...he had never witnessed or even heard of war crimes or atrocities being committed... "We gave the children candy. Wherever we went, we drew a crowd. A waving crowd."

My wife who is Vietnamese (now American citizen) grew up on the Delta, and has relatives everywhere in the area - Vietnamese extended families tend to be fairly huge: Sa Dec, Can Tho, Vinh Long, Ha Tien.

Until earlier this year my wife was unfamiliar with Kerry. But she's now heard of his 1971 charges, and they just don't jibe with reality. On the issue of "atrocities", she's never heard a whisper, a peep, a rumor or anything else from her family or friends while growing up on the Delta, nor anything from her many Vietnamese-American friends here in the States, many of whom are older and would certainly remember. After all, many of the Vietnamese oldsters remember and despise the French for their behavior before 1954.

They have no such memories of American soldiers and navy on the Delta.

Quite the opposite. My wife's single encounter with the U.S. military was to be escorted home by a sailor when lost as a toddler (yes, she remembers getting some candy). My brother-in-law told me last year (as we sat in front of a former Navy base on the Mekong) that "When the Americans were here we were all happy. Now there's only sadness."

When in Saigon last Novemeber, the USS Vangergrift docked in the Port Of Saigon, the first U.S. Navy ship to be there since 1975. The Vietnamese in Saigon were excited and happy to see Americans returning to the city. I saw many smiles and many happy people greeting our sailors.

Having spent a lot of time on the Delta, the worst thing I ever heard about America was that we withdrew our military support commitments in 1975, when they were most needed. This from a former air traffic controller who spoke flawless English with an odd 1970's slang.

To this very day, the South Vietnamese have high admiration for America and for what we tried to do in the 60's and 70's.

If there were atrocities committed on ther Delta, John Kerry seems to be the only person who knows about them.

One last thing: since he won Iowa in March (?), Kerry has been covered in the Vietnamese-American newspapers with more then the usual scrutiny. He is widely reviled as a "phan boi", or traitor, and is no friend of the South Vietnamese people now in America.

19 posted on 09/18/2004 6:48:43 PM PDT by angkor
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To: GeekDejure
I titled this paper, ?THE BLOOD ON KERRY?S HANDS? ...

The blood on Kerry's hands is 2 million Cambodians and hundred of thousands of South Vietnamese, post 1975.

20 posted on 09/18/2004 7:02:45 PM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; Mo1; Howlin
My wife who is Vietnamese (now American citizen) grew up on the Delta, and has relatives everywhere in the area - ... On the issue of "atrocities", she's never heard a whisper, a peep, a rumor or anything else from her family or friends while growing up on the Delta, nor anything from her many Vietnamese-American friends here in the States...

PING ... Thanks for this.

68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub, et al, you may wish to ping your list to this reply#19 for them to refer to.

21 posted on 09/18/2004 7:25:24 PM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: angkor
There are many who do not recall VietNam. It is important for you all to realize how sKerry deeply hurt and angered our fine military men.

I was just getting into the USAF as Vietnam was winding down.
I was personally spit on, as were many of my friends.

A buddy of mine here at Cornell had blood thrown at him, and others were assaulted by the peaceniks.

This was due to sKerry's "testimony" of lies at the "hearings" as much as anything else, though we could mention Fonda, SDS, the Communists, and others. But, sKerry gave great credibility to knee-jerk egotistical pacifist isolationists. His charges against our brave military men have not been forgotten - but the Swifties are reminding the 'Nam vets and their families EXACTLY WHO did that testimony, and many of us who remembered that testimony had forgotten who had created such lies.

The effect on the morale of our troops was devastating. The leadership of the country was devastated, too. They had already been in a defensive mode to begin with instead of an aggressive "win the war" mode - they went into a "buy our way out of it" mode. Some pointed with credibility to sKerry's lie that "we'd only have to protect 3000 S.Vietnamese who might be harmed by the NV" --- that was always complete bunk, but people WANTED to believe it. Over Three MILLION were killed after we left. sKerry was wrong there, and he lied about the rest, too. If the hearings had been more positive, it might have defused the peaceniks a bit, and we may well have gone on to make an attempt to stop micromanaging that conflict, and let our guys win the war.

Many of the culprits have recognized they were wrong - take David Horowitz as an example, as well as many FReepers who have stated as much here. Many are angry at the way Walter Cronkite and the rest of the lamestream press duped them. sKerry is still trying to defend his indefensible actions.

Kerry's a bona fide liar. He and his VVAW buddies encouraged others to lie. He is as close to a traitor as anybody I know of.

I stated (at length in discussions) on a thread a some time ago that this is now not only a battle between the SwiftVets and the peaceniks of the 60s and 70s, but that this campaign has become a battle - a great battle - between the Old Media Fraudcasters and other mediots, and the New Media - with talk radio/ internet/ blogs.

This has become a battle to the death. Only one will be left standing. The 'Nam Vets (including me and many of my fellows in arms) are not going to be able to be silenced by the President or by the Demodogs or by the Fraudcasters. We know the truth. There is a great well of support we can draw on, and righteous anger about the way we have been treated. Many others are just as angry about how they have been misled by the Fraudcasters and the NYSlimes, et al, and they are now seeing a way to "get a bit of their own back.

WE THE PEOPLE, INCLUDING THOSE OF US AT FR, HAVE TO TAKE BACK THE NEWS MEDIA. WE CAN NOT GIVE UP, WE CANNOT GIVE IN, WE CANNOT REST UNTIL sKERRY IS CRUSHED. CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL WHO ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THIS EFFORT.

please feel free to add to this, plagiarize it, or otherwise use this rant against the traitors to our brave men.

Give the VietNam Vets the Parade They Never Got

DEFEAT KERRY !!!


22 posted on 09/18/2004 7:30:48 PM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: angkor

Don't quote me or anything...but this is OLD news.


23 posted on 09/18/2004 7:32:51 PM PDT by JLO
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To: angkor; AFPhys; ActiveDutyUSMC; dakine; bkwells; chookter; Hacksaw434; thumperusn; Hostel; ...

Please read this post by angkor

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1220175/posts?page=19#19


24 posted on 09/18/2004 7:36:03 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (MAKE SURE YOU ARE CURRENTLY REGISTERED AND VOTE Nov 2nd!)
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To: angkor

Thanks for the post. Really. Good read.


25 posted on 09/18/2004 7:41:05 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Bumped and bookmarked


26 posted on 09/18/2004 7:41:49 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL on issues of national security for two decades)
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To: AFPhys; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; Mo1; Howlin

I will put my 5-foot-zero wife's 25 years experience on the Delta against Lurch's 3 months of self-inflating narcissism, any day of the week.

He's a bastard, a liar, and a phan boi to Americans AND to the people of South Vietnam.

I can confidently tell you that the South Vietnamese commmunity now in America will NOT be voting for John "Phan Boi" Kerry. They loathe him as much as they do anyone in Hanoi.


27 posted on 09/18/2004 7:46:26 PM PDT by angkor
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; angkor

Thanks, Tonk.

Very informative post, angkor.
Thank you.


28 posted on 09/18/2004 7:53:17 PM PDT by dixiechick2000
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To: AFPhys; All
I intended to state in my rant an invitation, ANYONE please feel free to expand on or plagiarize this rant. The most important thing is that we all get this out to the people who are still considering this man for CINC
29 posted on 09/18/2004 7:54:03 PM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: AFPhys

Someone should pose a question to Kerry:
"Have you stopped working for the enemies of this country?"


30 posted on 09/18/2004 8:03:40 PM PDT by Ragnar54
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To: angkor

angkor
Since Nov 9, 2000
view home page, enter name:



~ About ~ Links ~ Contact ~ In Forum ~ Mail To ~ Return


angkor hasn't created an about page.


31 posted on 09/18/2004 8:05:25 PM PDT by JLO
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To: angkor

angkor
Since Nov 9, 2000
view home page, enter name:



~ About ~ Links ~ Contact ~ In Forum ~ Mail To ~ Return


angkor hasn't created an about page.


32 posted on 09/18/2004 8:07:28 PM PDT by JLO
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To: AFPhys
"we'd only have to protect 3000 S.Vietnamese who might be harmed by the NV" --- that was always complete bunk...Over Three MILLION were killed...

He said this in his debate with O'Neill, as if 3,000 dead South Vietnamese was no big deal. Trivial and inconsequential. Something only a budding narcissist could say.

But you're right, it turned out to be 2 million Cambodians; almost 1 million tortured in NVA "reeducation camps"; and several tens of thousands killed on the spot in 1975.

Among the family of my Vietnamese wife, at least 6 went for "reeducation" (reeducation was administered in three-year terms).

Two came home permanently crippled from NVA beatings. All were subjected to torture, the favored method being to hang the subject from the feet, stuff a rag in his mouth, and pour "nuoc mam" (fermented fish sauce) down the nostrils.

In 1971, John Kerry repeatedly asserted that only major South Vietnamese political leaders would be subject to NVA retribution. He was a liar.

Millions of South Vietnamese were subjected to direct retribution, and millions more suffer at the hand of the Hanoi government to this very day.

John Kerry is responsible for the abject misery of 25 million South Vietnamese to this very day.

33 posted on 09/18/2004 8:08:12 PM PDT by angkor
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To: FairOpinion
You can bet the DemocRAT 'smear the President and Swiftees' campaign will be kicked up to a whole new level now.

FReepers are key in getting the word out about the Swiftees who are EXPOSING KERRY'S FRAUD!

These Swiftee stickers get the word out to the driving public and displays your public support for the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth! It even displays their website address. Best of all, it generates funds to buy more airtime!

Swiftee sticker thread! Freep mail for details on how to get yours!

34 posted on 09/18/2004 8:08:47 PM PDT by Chieftain (Support the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and expose Hanoi John's FRAUD!)
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To: JLO
angkor hasn't created an about page.

Angkor won't be doing that.

35 posted on 09/18/2004 8:09:49 PM PDT by angkor
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To: JLO
Don't quote me or anything...but this is OLD news.

Maybe to you, but not to the accepted American mythology about Vietnam.

What point specifically do you think is "old news"? Just curious.

36 posted on 09/18/2004 8:15:14 PM PDT by angkor
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To: Cicero

That's Concord New Hampshire, "Live Free or Die", not "Tax 'em til they Die", Massachusetts.


37 posted on 09/18/2004 8:15:14 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: angkor
The blood on Kerry's hands is 2 million Cambodians and hundred of thousands of South Vietnamese, post 1975.

I committed atrocities in Vietnam before I did not commit atrocities. I had blood on my hands before I did not have blood on my hands. I am a war hero and I've got the medals to prove it!

I am John Kerry and I approve this message.

.

38 posted on 09/18/2004 8:15:39 PM PDT by GeekDejure ( LOL = Liberals Obey Lucifer !!!)
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To: Ragnar54
Someone should pose a question to Kerry: "Have you stopped working for the enemies of this country?"

The answer is NO!

The Vietnam Human Rights Act, (HR2833), which tied U.S. aid to Vietnam's human rights performance, passed by a 410-1 margin in the House of Representatives. Kerry, chairman of the Senate's East Asian and Pacific Affairs subcommittee in 2001, blocked the bill from coming to a vote in the Senate. Kerry said in a statement at the time that he and fellow Vietnam War veteran Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.) "are concerned that denying aid to Vietnam would actually slow human rights improvements." Many Vietnamese living abroad, along with human rights campaigners, say conditions in Vietnam have deteriorated in the three years since Kerry blocked the legislation.

Kerry persuaded the MIA/POW Senate committee, which he chaired, to vote unanimously that no POWs existed in Vietnam in order to open up trade with Vietnam. (His cousin C. Stewart Forbes, CEO of Colliers Intl, received a contract for a huge commercial deal worth at least $905 million to develop a deep-sea commercial port at Vung Tau.)

More on the POW/MIA, a great article: When John Kerry's Courage Went M.I.A. - Senator covered up evidence of P.O.W.'s left behind

For more, check out the John F. Kerry Timeline. Email it to your friends.
.

39 posted on 09/18/2004 8:16:16 PM PDT by christie (John F. Kerry Timeline - http://www.archive-news.net/Kerry/JK_timeline.html)
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To: angkor

good to know.


40 posted on 09/18/2004 8:21:12 PM PDT by King Prout (civilization is a veneereal disease)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Thanks for the ping!


41 posted on 09/18/2004 8:31:02 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: sinkspur
The parade these guys never got will be Kerry, with his downcast sycophants, striding to a podium on election night, November 2, to throw in the towel.

As one of the vets at the Kerry Lied Rally said, "Veterans Day is on November 2nd this year!"

42 posted on 09/18/2004 8:31:59 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (If the Cambodia "lie" 100% discredits John O'Neill, what do 50 Cambodia lies do for Kerry?)
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To: FairOpinion

Good chant, but it's "Hey, hey, ho, ho".


43 posted on 09/18/2004 8:34:12 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (If the Cambodia "lie" 100% discredits John O'Neill, what do 50 Cambodia lies do for Kerry?)
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To: RaceBannon
In the first week of the attack the NVA/VC lost 32,204 confirmed killed, and 5,803 captured. US losses were 1,015 KHA, while ARVN losses were 2,819 killed. ARVN losses were higher because the NVA/VC, reluctant to enter into a set-piece battle with US forces, attacked targets defended almost exclusively by South Vietnamese troops.

1,000+ in one week. Now the "quagmire" brigad has lowered the standard for "unwinable" to 1000+ in one year.

Each of those 1,000+ was a loss of a comrade, but put in comparison to the 2,500 or so in the first day of the Normandy Invasion, or 1,000 in the first of Tet '68, leads to some perspective on the magnitude of things. And remember the Communist Vietnamese never attacked the US, the Jihadies did, and Iraq was helping and financing at least some of them. Maybe not the very ones who attacked us, but maybe so. Records of such things are usually not kept, or are easily destroyed. BTW, has anyone seen any figures, even WAGs, on how many Jihadies eliminated in Iraq and Afghanistan that won't be coming here to try for a repeat performance?

44 posted on 09/18/2004 8:34:19 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: austinaero
The cool thing is, and I truly believe this,,, the Swifties aren't done when the election is over.

I doubt it because these guys seem mostly concerned with Kerry being C-in_C. That said, it would be wonderful to see them get him booted out of the Senate, and I bet they could make it happen. Certainly they could turn his next Senate election if the GOP has put up a good candidate.

Also, I think one of the jobs Generation X needs to perform is correcting the horrible smear job that the crappy Boomers perpetrated on the valorous Boomers.

45 posted on 09/18/2004 8:40:57 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (If the Cambodia "lie" 100% discredits John O'Neill, what do 50 Cambodia lies do for Kerry?)
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To: angkor

angkor hasn't created an about page.
Angkor won't be doing that.


35 posted on 09/18/2004 10:09:49 PM CDT by angkor
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===

Well it's swell of you to post for him/her.

LOL!


46 posted on 09/18/2004 8:42:37 PM PDT by JLO (eS\XACTT;I)
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To: JLO

Could I ask what your bloody point is?


47 posted on 09/18/2004 8:46:36 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (If the Cambodia "lie" 100% discredits John O'Neill, what do 50 Cambodia lies do for Kerry?)
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To: angkor
John Kerry is responsible for the abject misery of 25 million South Vietnamese to this very day.

And you can bet that every time Voice of the Martyrs reports another atrocity against Christians in Vietnam, like the recent wave of church demolitions or the trick where they put pastors in labor camps and ruin their kidneys with sandy rice, I will think of Hanoi John.

48 posted on 09/18/2004 8:51:56 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (If the Cambodia "lie" 100% discredits John O'Neill, what do 50 Cambodia lies do for Kerry?)
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To: angkor

Truly and sincerely - I don't want to appear to be mean. I'm not, really.

Get to know the Vietnam Veterans around here.


49 posted on 09/18/2004 8:56:06 PM PDT by JLO (eS\XACTT;I)
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To: JLO
Could I ask what your bloody point is?

Ditto that. I have been reading this thread and you seem to have some problem with angkor because, apparently, he hasn't created an "about" page. Well, I have been browsing this web site and posting for as long as it has been around (even before the 1998 date that you see if you check my personals... I had a different "handle" before that) and I have never created an "about" page. What is your problem with angkor?
50 posted on 09/18/2004 8:56:50 PM PDT by AaronInCarolina
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