Court Orders Florida City to Level Crosses at Cemetery

Bradenton Herald ^ | Fri, Sep. 03, 2004 | JACKIE HALLIFAX

[countyourblessings]

A Boca Raton ordinance that bans upright crosses and Stars of David in a city cemetery doesn't violate a state law designed to protect religious freedom, the Florida Supreme Court ruled Thursday.

[Unam Sanctam]

This sounds like a free exercise issue, not an establishment issue. This court has obviously got it in for religion in general.

[EggsAckley]

I just checked the "must-excerpt" list, and your source is not on it. Please avoid unnecessary excerpting.

[Ramonan]

Michael Savage predicted this.....

[Sacajaweau]

Everything has to be laying down in this cemetery. Cemeteries have rules though they do vary. I don't see this as anti-religious at all and I'm betting that other standing things are included in this "leveling" but not indicated in the article.

[Clemenza]

Being that this is the the heart of Robert Wexler country (and current home of Clemenza's parents) I am NOT surprised that this happened in Boca.

Boca Raton, where Scarsdale and the Upper West Side go to retire.

[jess35]

The prohibition is just against vertical markers - those that stand up from the ground - but not against crosses or Stars of David or other religious signs. Although the city limits gravestones to markers laid into the ground, those markers can be engraved with religious symbols.

This is a non-issue. Many graveyards have strict rules about how markers can be placed and whether or not fresh flowers can be left at the graveside. This is about a group of people who decided that they were "special" and exempt from the ordinances.

If you want a Cross or Star of David standing over your grave when you die, pick another cemetary.

[PaxMacian]

The court has ruled there is no substantial difference between two dimensions and three dimensions? What kind of an idiot is this judge?

[MegaSilver]

But of course loud calls for prayer to Allah in Michigan are okay...

[WestVirginiaRebel]

So let me get this straight-the ACLU defends religious expression in this case, but if you have a cross in a city or other official seal, that's a no-no?

Something doesn't add up here.

[EggsAckley]

Florida = God's waiting room.

[MegaSilver]

The American Civil Liberties Union of Florida sued on behalf of 400 families with crosses, statues of saints and Stars of David.

Mark this day on my calendar!

[jess35]

I suppose the ACLU sees a difference between a cross on a burial marker that represents the faith of the person buried beneath it and a cross on a city seal that is intended to represent every citizen of that city.

I still don't understand where the issue is here. No one is saying they can't have religious symbols on burial markers. They're just saying that the markers have to be horizontal, not vertical.

[tommix2]

Everything has to be laying down in this cemetery
At our local cemetary, the headstones lie flat and many of them have crosses on them. By the way, Sacajaweau is buried on the Wind River Reservatiion. The headstone is upright.

[GretchenM]

The court has ruled there is no substantial difference between two dimensions and three dimensions? What kind of an idiot is this judge?

Kind of reminds me of Abe Lincoln's defense of the railroad bridge over the Mississippi, when he argued that traffic going east-west has as much right to move as traffic going north-south.

This is ridiculous. Whose eyes are being polluted? The people who paid for these symbols in good faith should get what they paid for. It sounds like a breach of contract to me. If someone wants to argue you can't violate a contract with a dead person, I'd say yes you can; just ask the heirs of an estate when the state tries to nullify, illegally, the dead person's will. And if the powers that be want to say dead people have no rights, then they should dig up all the bones and throw them into an unmarked pit. What's to stop them if they get away with desecrating grave toppers?

[Sacajaweau]

Tell the judge to lay down in front of a pavement roller and we'll give him a lesson in "dimension".

[Sacajaweau]

I was thinking of that, too. Hmmmm Follow the money?

[Jaysun]

Here's some questions: If there's a law against headstones, how were so many of them allowed to be placed upright in the first place? Were they there before the law was passed? Do they only ban upright crosses and Stars of David? Are other headstones allowed?

The answer to those questions would help us decide if this is a case of more Christian bashing, or simply a group of people that decided to disregard the law.

[VeniVidiVici]

I agree that if those headstones were upright prior to the ordinance I can see why people would be upset.

If the ordinance has been there all along, well, it is a public cemetery so I guess they can make their own assnine rules.

[Budge]

Someone needs to check:
How long has the cemetary been in existance.
Check with the families of those who have loved ones buried there to see if there is anything in the deed that says what type (horizontal or vertical) marker may or may not be used.

Remember one thing, a cemetary plot is private property.

[gcruse]

The American Civil Liberties Union of Florida sued on behalf of 400 families with crosses, statues of saints and Stars of David.

Those atheistic bastards....oh, wait.

[Tribune7]

Some cemetaries prohibit upright monuments to make maintenance easier. If this is the case the Boca Raton ordinance is not insidous. Now, if it prohibits crosses on flat monuments or allows up right headstones, that is a different matter.

[Tribune7]

Everything has to be laying down in this cemetery.

That would mean the rationale is based making maintenance easy which makes sense.

[Twinkie]

Since none of us knows the day or the hour - - the whole earth, in fact, the whole universe is God's waiting room.

[EggsAckley]

True, ...............(it's a joke, ok?)

[tommix2]

make maintenance easier -- especially where the snow drifts higher than the monuments and the snow plow might knock them over as in our cemetery.

[Alouette]

I think this has more to do with cemetery maintenance than free exercise of religion.

It is much easier to operate a power mower over flat markers than to steer between upright markers.

That said, I don't think a cemetery ought to look like a golf course.

[Eastbound]

Today, Boca Raton. Tomorrow, Arlington National Cemetery.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Isn't Arlington National Cemetery full of crosses?

[camas]

now we know why the last 3 storms hit here!?!?!?

[TonyM]

Not true!
Florida = Hell's waiting room

[Eastbound]

I think they are all vertical stones, not crosses.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

I visited there in the '70's. What I remember seeing is crosses. But it has been a long time.

[Eastbound]

Here's a picture of Arlington National Cemetery:

In France, I think most of our war dead buried there are marked with crosses. Check this one cemetery there:

[F16Fighter]

"I don't see this as anti-religious at all..."

Then you're delusional or just winking at us.

In 1998, the city said it planned to remove vertical decorations because they make it difficult to cut the grass and perform other landscaping chores.

You really buying this?

Judicial fiat superceding the will of the people for horsesh*t reasons. Again.

[Twinkie]

I know it's a joke, EggsAckley, but Twinkie has to spoil everyone's fun. No fun for Freepers!

[EggsAckley]

"No soup for you!!"


~</;o)

[F16Fighter]

"Those atheistic bastards....oh, wait."

Yeah, and you see that they WON the case, eh??

Oh nevermind -- that's not how it turned out -- this is ONE case they just happened to lose (wink, wink).

[gcruse]

Never forget that, gcruse, if that really is your screen name.

LOL   It's my screen name, which should be obvious to the
most casual observer.  But is it my REAL name? Well, yes.
And the ACLU is a horrid band of leftwing atheist bandits
until they do something that comes down on the conservative
side, for which they will get no credit.  Liberals and
conservatives have different beliefs, similar modes of thinking.

[SunnySide]

" Everything has to be laying down in this cemetery. Cemeteries have rules though they do vary. I don't see this as anti-religious at all "

I have to agree with this. I know of many cemetaries that won't allow upright head stones either. Only ground level stone plaques for maintenance budget purposes only. People can have any symbols/words they want engraved on those stone plaques.

[gcruse]

Oh nevermind -- that's not how it turned out -- this is ONE case they just happened to lose (wink, wink).

ROFL  Is that a tin hat or are you channeling Garner Ted Armstrong?

[Modernman]

Judicial fiat superceding the will of the people for horsesh*t reasons. Again

The will of the people in Boca Raton was embodied in this law that prevented upright gravestones. It was the plaintiffs here that were trying to impose their will through judicial fiat, rather than by gettting the law changed.

[dglang]

There aren't many snow drifts in southern Florida

[F16Fighter]

Cliff Clavin could have won this case.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Hmm. What I remember seeing are crosses.

[F16Fighter]

"The will of the people in Boca Raton was embodied in this law that prevented upright gravestones.

Then what was THIS all about?

In 1998, the city said it planned to remove vertical decorations because they make it difficult to cut the grass and perform other landscaping chores.

Plain and simple, it's another attempt at eradicating American heritage and tradition.

[LiteKeeper]

WHAT?????