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Bosnian Muslim Fanatics

Posted on 09/19/2004 8:01:49 PM PDT by Nepalis



TOPICS: War on Terror
KEYWORDS: balkanalqaeda; balkans; hanjardivision; heinrichhimmler; islam; kerrylookalike; muslim; nazis; terrorist; waffenss; wakeup; whitealqaeda
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Europe
1 posted on 09/19/2004 8:01:49 PM PDT by Nepalis
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To: Nepalis

Thanks to the sink emperor!!!!


2 posted on 09/19/2004 8:04:21 PM PDT by Coroner
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To: Coroner

Brought to you courtesy of Bill Clinton, the terrorists friend.


3 posted on 09/19/2004 8:25:54 PM PDT by MisterRepublican
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To: MisterRepublican
Brought to you courtesy of Bill Clinton, the terrorists friend.

And the blood of thousands of innocent Serb Christians is on Bill's hands as well.

4 posted on 09/19/2004 8:27:44 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: MarMema

Ping


5 posted on 09/19/2004 8:30:45 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: Nepalis

Going to Kosovo was a mistake in 1999. The Bosnian Muslims were the Waffen-SS formed by their friend Heinrich Himmler.


6 posted on 09/19/2004 10:48:58 PM PDT by Ptarmigan (Proud rabbit hater and killer)
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To: Nepalis
Europe, 1995.

Since when we've had troops on the ground, and haven't had any problems with the Bosnians.

So what's your point?

7 posted on 09/19/2004 11:14:08 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Ptarmigan
And Serbia was the first "Judenfrei" country thanks, as reported by the local Gruppenführer, Harald Turner, to the enthusiastic support of the locals.

Occupying forces were always able to rely on the Belgrade police. Special Police forces dealt with their assignments with great enthusiasm and success, unlike any other police in any city in all of occupied Europe.

So if we're using World War II to justify our actions in the 1990's, we've got our bases covered, don't we.

8 posted on 09/19/2004 11:24:16 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Nepalis; Balkans; DTA; Hoplite; GeraldP
thanks to x42 and his Foreign Policy Team - (the same team that Kerry uses)

would it surprise you to know that Clinton's Bosnian Buddies even gave OBL honorary citizenship ( and a passport ?)

would it surprise you to know that one of the key 9-11 plotters was a Bosnian ?

would it surprise you to know that many Taliben captured in Afghanistan recieved their first training in Bosnia courtesy of money and arms sent there by x42 ?

9 posted on 09/20/2004 7:26:36 AM PDT by vooch
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To: Hoplite
still using those discredited half-truths to bolster your (crumbling) case for supporting Bosnian Jihadists ?

Hoplite - your arguments have lone since been exposed as utter fabrications.

10 posted on 09/20/2004 7:28:56 AM PDT by vooch
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To: vooch

I read somewhere that some of the 9/11 hijackers spent time in Bosnia and even got papers from them. I know the Nazis wanted to form a Muslim empire in that area.


11 posted on 09/20/2004 5:17:37 PM PDT by Ptarmigan (Proud rabbit hater and killer)
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To: Hoplite; vooch
I recall that I stayed with my friend in Beograd, who is 1/2 Serb and Croatian. His mother is all Croatian and his dad is 1/2 1/2. Wow! non-Serbs in Beograd! How did they get loose?

How the heck can they be "Jew" free? On the first flat/floor of my friends apartment, there is a Serbian-Jewish Friendship Committee office that has been there for well, well over twenty years.

Serbia was the first to rise up against the Germans in all of Europe. They were the quickest to form anti-Axis forces and were the most effective til Tito usurped the intel in London to have support switched from the Serbs to his communist heathens.

12 posted on 09/21/2004 6:32:12 AM PDT by ma bell (Niti cemo se pokoriti, niti ukloniti We shall neither yield or submit.)
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To: Nepalis

In the name of Allah, Muslim terrorists in Russia stabbed babies to death, shot toddlers in the back, forced children to eat rose petals and drink their own urine, raped teenage girls, executed their teachers and blew themselves up in a crowded school gymnasium. Death toll: 338.


13 posted on 09/21/2004 7:29:30 AM PDT by JesseHousman (Execute Mumia Abu-Jamal)
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To: ma bell; Hoplite; vooch
Hoplite, I am disapointed. You have not used fake Anti-Jewish stamp example. Anyway, nice try, the only probelme is that Croatian Nazi propaganda is debunked long time ago. But you hope that if you repeat it thousand times it will become the truth.

First Junenfrei town in the balkans (and Europe) was Sarajevo, not Belgrade.

Sarajevo at that time was in Nazi puppet statelet called Independent State of Croatia, run by Croatian Nazis.

Unlike Bosnia and Croatia (a.k.a Independent State of Croatia), WWII Serbia was under direct Wehrmacht military occupation. An attempt to blame extermination of Jews on Serbs is an act of Holocaust revisionism, because it tries to exonerate Nazism and Nazis, the real perpetrators of extermination and pin it on Serbs as a people.

It will be better for your mental health to read Holocaust encyclopaedia than Croatian Nazi drivel. Denial is not a river in Egypt.

14 posted on 09/21/2004 7:40:23 AM PDT by DTA
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To: DTA

Yeah - he thinks if he throws enough mud some of it will stick. Little does he know all he is doing is discrediting himself with parroting Clintonista tales


15 posted on 09/21/2004 8:53:28 AM PDT by vooch
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To: DTA
This isn't Croatian propaganda. Dr. Turner was a German, was placed in charge of occupied Serbia, and reports, as I've quoted, that he received the enthusiastic support of the locals.

Did all the locals support him? No. But the same is true of any of the Balkan countries - each and every country in the region rose up against Axis rule, from the Albanians to the Croatians, yet you and your Serb nationalist friends continue to spam these threads with your garbage attempting to tie World War II crimes to the 1990's, as if the connection would somehow lessen or abnegate Serbian actions under Milosevic.

No dice.

Plainly put, you're in no position to cast stones, DTA, and I'm more than happy to sling 'em right back in your face.

16 posted on 09/21/2004 10:54:37 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: DTA
What must be taken into account is the quick defiance and set-up of the revolt against occupation compared to other countries that were rudely invaded.

This revolt done was supported by the Masonic people of that region and not by Orthodox Serbs. Thereby, hoppies arguement is spittle, a fungus.

There was not an uprising by the Croatians against the Nazis. The Croats did rise up against the Serbs. The Bosnian Muslims and the Albanians joined the Croatians in welcoming the Nazis and rose up against the Serbian civilian population.

There is too much proof of history showcasing how write I am and how wrong Hoplite is.

Problem is, many people are too lazy to search the facts themselves so reliance on their ignorance is the preferred task.

17 posted on 09/21/2004 12:04:28 PM PDT by ma bell (Niti cemo se pokoriti, niti ukloniti We shall neither yield or submit.)
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To: ma bell

>>>The Bosnian Muslims and the Albanians joined the Croatians in welcoming the Nazis and rose up against the Serbian civilian population.

Oh, and don't forget the Hungarians too.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1217680/posts

/sarcasm


18 posted on 09/21/2004 1:04:00 PM PDT by GeraldP (Non-violence never solved anything.)
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To: ma bell; Hoplite; joan
Croatian Ustasha credo:

Hitler and Pavelic:

After all, if the Croat state wishes to be strong, a nationally intolerant policy must be pursued for fifty years, because too much tolerance on such issues can only do harm."

Adolf Hitler to Ante Pavelic in their meeting, June 6, 1941

"For the rest - Serbs, Jews and Gypsies - we have three million bullets. We shall kill one third of all Serbs. We shall deport another third, and the rest of them will be forced to become Roman Catholic." Mile Budak, Minister of Education of Croatia, July 22, 1941

"There are limits even to love... (It is) stupid and unworthy of Christ's disciples to think that the struggle against evil could be waged in a noble way and with gloves on."

Archbishop of Sarajevo, Ivan Saric, 1941

"Croats no longer think that German troops are present merely to provide peace and security, but that they are here to support the Ustasha regime [...] The Ustashas promote the impression that they act not only in agreement with German instances, but actually on their orders. [...] There is here today a deep mistrust of Germany, because it is supporting a regime that has no moral or political right to exist, which is regarded as the greatest calamity that could have happened to the Croat people. That regime is based entirely on the recognition by the Axis powers, it has no popular roots, and depends on the bayonets of robbers who do more evil in a day than the Serbian regime had done in twenty years."

Captain Haffner to General Edmund Glaise von Horstenau, Plenipotentiary of the Wehrmacht in Zagreb, Croatia, 1941

"Our troops have to be mute witnesses of such events; it does not reflect well on their otherwise high reputation... I am frequently told that German occupation troops would finally have to intervene against Ustasha crimes. This may happen eventually. Right now, with the available forces, I could not ask for such action Ad hoc intervention in individual cases could make the German Army look responsible for countless crimes which it could not prevent in the past."

General Edmund Glaise von Horstenau to the OKW, July 10, 1941

"The horrors that the Ustashi have committed over the Serbian small girls is beyond all words. There are hundreds of photographs confirming these deeds because those of them who have survived the torture: bayonet stabs, pulling of tongues and teeth, nails and breast tips - all this after they were raped. Survivors were taken in by our officers and transported to Italian hospitals where these documents and facts were gathered."

Commander of the Italian Sassari Division in Croatia, 1941

"Increased activity of the bands is chiefly due to atrocities carried out by Ustasha units in Croatia against the Orthodox population. The Ustashas committed their deeds in a bestial manner not only against males of conscript age, but especially against helpless old people, women and children. The number of the Orthodox that the Croats have massacred and sadistically tortured to death is about three hundred thousand."

Report to Reichsfuhrer SS Heinrich Himmler from the Geheime Staatspolizei - GESTAPO - dated February 17, 1942

"From the founding [of the NDH] until now the persecution of Serbs has not stopped, and even cautious estimates indicate that at least several hundred thousand people have been killed. The irresponsible elements have committed such atrocities that could be expected only from a rabid Bolshevik horde."

German foreign ministry plenipotentiary representative in Belgrade Felix Benzler to Joachim von Ribbentrop, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Reich

" (In Croatia under the Ustasha) ...over half a million [Serbs] were murdered, about a quarter of a million were expelled from the country, and another quarter of a million were forced to convert to Catholicism." Encyclopaedia of the Holocaust

19 posted on 09/21/2004 1:10:21 PM PDT by DTA
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To: GeraldP
Yes, Hungarians too.

""Pictured here are policemen and soldiers standing around the bodies of murdered Jews in Novi-Sad, Yugoslavia on January 23, 1942. On April 12, 1941, Hungarian forces entered Novi-Sad and immediately began terrorizing the Jewish residents. Between the 21-23 of January 1942, Jews were taken from their homes, in the freezing cold, and murdered. Most were drowned in the Danube River. Over 800 Jews died in the massacre and other Jews fled to Budapest. The Germans entered Novi-Sad in March 1944 and the remaining Jews were sent to Auschwitz.

Albanians, Bosnian Muslims and Croatians are broters in arms from Waffen SS: Waffen SS division Skenderbeg (Albanians), Waffen SS Division Hanjar (Bosnian Muslims), Waffen SS Division Kama (Croats), 25th Waffen SS Grenadier Division"Hunyadi" (Hungarians)

Perhaps joking about Nazi past is fun for you, but this is Nazi revisionism for me.

20 posted on 09/21/2004 1:20:22 PM PDT by DTA
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To: DTA
Croatians run around ethnically cleansing their neighbors and run concentration camps, Croatians get bombed.

Serbs run around ethnically cleansing their neighbors and run concentration camps, Serbs get bombed.

This is just all too much for your brain to wrap itself around, isn't it?

The 1940's have no bearing upon the actions of Milosevic's regime in the 1990's, and it is specifically upon the basis of the actions of the Milosevic regime in the 1990's that we wound up bombing Serbs - not once, but twice.

SERBIAN RADICAL LEADER CALLS FOR 'ALL SERBS IN ONE STATE'

Serbian Radical Party (SRS) Nikolic told the Sarajevo weekly "Slobodna Bosna" recently that Bosnian Serbs should be free to hold a plebiscite on leaving the "artificial" Bosnian state and annexing the Republika Srpska to Serbia, Reuters reported on 19 September. He said that all Serbs belong in one state and that he "will not rest politically" until that happens. "I insist on everyone being on his own territory. That is my political stand under which Serbia, Montenegro, the Republika Srpska, and, God willing, the [former] Republic of Serbian Krajina [in Croatia], should all be in one state," he argued. The news agency noted that this is the second time in one month that Nikolic has taken his greater Serbian message to Bosnia-Herzegovina, following a recent appearance in Bijeljina near the Serbian border. "All Serbs in one state" was a slogan of former President Milosevic at the start of the conflicts in the early 1990s.

If you want a third time for your cousins back in the old country, we'd be more than willing to oblige, DTA. We're not interested in your pathetic victim complex - as a matter of fact, we'll give you some more to cry about unless you wise up.

21 posted on 09/21/2004 1:29:59 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
"Croatians run around ethnically cleansing their neighbors and run concentration camps, Croatians get bombed."

Croats were not bombed, neither were the Ustashe concentration camps, nor did the allies bother to try and liberate them, nor did Tito, strongly supported by the British and the US, attack the Ustashe. Instead, the Serb men who saved the lives of downed American pilots (513) were killed by Tito once he gained control over the whole territory.

22 posted on 09/21/2004 2:33:27 PM PDT by joan
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To: JesseHousman

Actually, it was the Russian tanks and helicopters that blew up the gymnasium.

Had the terrorists done it, no one would have survived.


23 posted on 09/21/2004 2:36:24 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: DTA

Wasn't the redcross, and therefore world leaders, aware of the concentration camps in Croatia? They NEVER did rescue the people and the concentration camps laste almost 4 years.


24 posted on 09/21/2004 2:38:38 PM PDT by joan
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To: joan
Did we bomb the German run concentration camps?

No, Joan. We didn't.

You're out of your depth when the discussion turns to the 12th and 15th USAAF and their activities over Yugoslavia during World War II - we hit Axis targets throughout Yugoslavia as soon as the theater came into the range of our Strategic and Tactical air assets.

And what's this with Tito not attacking the Ustashe?

Are you really so dense as to think you can say whatever suits rather than having to constrain yourself within the bounds of historical realities?

Don't you have someone you could bake a pie for, or knit a sweater?

25 posted on 09/21/2004 3:12:54 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Nepalis
Are you sure that's not John Kerry in the second photo?

That Muslim soldier looks so much like him, it's freaky!

Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry wears a NASA "bunny suit" while visiting the flight deck of the space shuttle Discovery Monday. Democrats have accused Republicans of trying to embarrass Kerry by circulating photos from the visit. Photo: Courtesy of NASA

John Kerry crawls out of the NASA Shuttle Discovery during a tour of the Kennedy Space Center complex. NASA

26 posted on 09/21/2004 5:25:34 PM PDT by joan
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To: Nepalis
What was Kerry doing in the "Muslim brigade of the Bosnian army marching in a military parade in Zenica, central Bosnia"? (I'm just joking, I think, but the resemblance is uncanny.)


27 posted on 09/21/2004 5:29:09 PM PDT by joan
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To: joan

In fact , the url of pic has changed by that web site .


28 posted on 09/21/2004 5:54:39 PM PDT by Nepalis (Bomb to Fallujah , everyday)
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To: Nepalis

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Is the second picture legit or was it photoshopped?


29 posted on 09/21/2004 6:32:44 PM PDT by joan
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To: joan

My meaning is the network address of second picture has changed by that web site .


30 posted on 09/21/2004 6:36:45 PM PDT by Nepalis (Bomb to Fallujah , everyday)
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To: Nepalis; ma bell

PIP, stay safe

BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA, CROATIA, MONTENEGRO (FORMER FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF YUGOSLAVIA), SERBIA-KOSOVO (FORMER FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF YUGOSLAVIA) AND SLOVENIA
Italy's Secret Service Warns of Islamist Expansion in Balkans
from FBIS on Thursday, August 19, 2004
Article ID: D152109
The following text was translated from the Madrid La Razon (Internet Version-WWW) in Spanish on August 2004:

A report by the Italian Intelligence and Military Security Service (SISMI) seen by La Razon warns that the so-called "European green ridge" - a cross-border area linking the Muslim populations of the Balkans region and crossing five countries, ending up on the Black Sea, alongside Turkey - is being targeted by the Islamist fundamentalist movement in an effort to penetrate the heart of Europe. It warns that, after years of instability, Islamist extremists are gaining support in the region with breathtaking speed, due to funding from countries like Saudi Arabia. Armed Islamist groups are nothing new in the Balkans. They have existed since before the fall of the Soviet regime, and they played an important role during the disintegration of Yugoslavia - to such an extent that the "mujahidin" of that period are today considered "veterans" in the Al-Qa'idah galaxy.

In 1996, the US Republican Party presented in Congress a report accusing the administration of [President Bill] Clinton of "helping turn Bosnia into an Islamist militant base". The fact is that fundamentalist Arab countries, led by Saudi Arabia, have been exporting fundamentalist Islamism to the Balkans for decades. As well as supplying guerrilla movements, they have set up mosques, Koranic schools and Islamic cultural institutions and, taking advantage of failings in institutional structures and political instability, initiated their fundamentalist preaching. It is a rhetoric that is growing ever deeper roots. A report by the Italian Intelligence and Military Security Service (SISMI) says the situation is deteriorating. The revelation is of added credibility because Italy is one of the countries with the greatest military and strategic presence in the Balkans area, so its secret services are among the best informed about it. Its conclusions are emphatic: "Islamist extremism is progressively increasing its presence in the area through the funding of numerous NGOs and thanks to growing militancy in certain subversive organizations." "The phenomenon", the text goes on, "entails the risk of a progressive destabilization of the area and the creation of new armed commandos that may fall into the orbit of international terrorism." The country most affected by this progressive radicalization is Bosnia-Hercegovina, where more than 40 per cent of the population is Muslim. Before the disintegration of Yugoslavia, few Bosnian Muslims talked about the theocratic state or Koranic law. Today, the radical movement, while still in the minority, already affects a large sector of the population. It consists of a growing group of Muslims who do not see a very clear difference between the state and religion and who daily stir up the powder keg of the country's ethnic and religious differences. The Italian intelligence services stress "the growing danger from the international jihad veterans living in Bosnia", as well as the fact that "a growing proportion of the young population is very sensitive to the Islamist cause and is accustomed to coexisting and supporting itself economically in a structure of networks of fundamentalist and criminal associations". The autonomous region of Kosovo, which still belongs to the state of Serbia-Montenegro, is another of the places where fundamentalism is on the rise. The Kosovo Liberation Army itself, the group which confronted [former Yugoslav President Slobodan] Milosevic in the harsh years of ethnic cleansing, is an armed organization with a fundamentalist vocation which has received concrete support from Islamist fundamentalism and the ideological umbrella of the jihad. In fact, the Kosovo Albanians have still not lain down their weapons, even though the region has been administered by the international forces for five years. The Italian intelligence service explains that "the role of the province of Kosovo has been confirmed as a hub of the armed pan-Albanian irredentism that the region is suffering, which has led to the emergence of dangerous links between Albanian nationalism, Islamist extremism and criminal interests". The constant instability and the interminable economic crisis in neighbouring Macedonia - a country where the SISMI has managed to identify "intense exploitation of the poor economic, political and social situation by the fundamentalist movement" - is no less dangerous. It is all causing "dangerous relationships between fundamentalist groups and criminal organizations," the secret service report concludes.

2004 Copyright Madrid La Razon. All rights reserved.
http://www.ds-osac.org/view.cfm?key=7E435743435C&type=2B170C1E0A3A0F162820


31 posted on 09/22/2004 5:19:59 AM PDT by getgoing
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To: getgoing

The only part missing is the direct role Bosnian terror Inc. alumni played in WTC1, 9-11, SS Cole, Millenial plot and Madrid terrorist attack.

Also, direct links between Bosnian and Chechen terrorists is not mentioned and it is very important. It shows that
"Green terror interstate" is complete and operational.

As Canadian AQ turncoat Khadr has demonstrated, Al Qaeda is capable to transport terrorists from Afghanistan and Pakistan to Bosnia through Turkey, a NATO country.


32 posted on 09/22/2004 5:56:11 AM PDT by DTA
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To: Hoplite; joan
>>>>>>>You're out of your depth when the discussion turns to the 12th and 15th USAAF and their activities over Yugoslavia during World War II - we hit Axis targets throughout Yugoslavia as soon as the theater came into the range of our Strategic and Tactical air assets.<<<<<

Hoplite, someone not conversant with WWII might think you tell the truth. In reality, what you say is big fat lie. It is true that 12th 15th, NATAF, SAAF attacked small targets along the Adriatic coast and larger ones (Fiume oil rafinery, Spalato harbor and marshalling yards etc.) however, deliberate terror bombing of civilians did not occur over NDH (i.e. Independent State of Croatia) although NDH DECLARED WAR on U.S. and was shooting U.S. planes down(over 150 downed).

USAAF made negligent damage to German troops and their assets. The only success USAAF scored was murdering of Serb civilians in Serbia and Montenegro.

According to the official USAAF documents, targets in Serbia were targets of opportunity on way back from Ploesti oilfields.

The catch? Ploesti fell into the hands of Red Army in August, while terror bombing of Serbian towns continued until September 1944. Communists invaded Serbia two weeks later.

Bombing of Belgrade on Easter Sunday 1944 was deliberate - UXO was found with inscription "happy Easter" written in Serbian. According to flight documents, bombers were heading to Romania, but UXO shows otherwise. Belgrade city core was deliberately targetted, more than 2000 civilians were killed while the damage to occupying Wehrmacht forces was negligent (several dead and wounded)

Documents recently made public in Serbian archives show that it was Tito's communists who ordered bombing of Belgrade, Nish, Pirot, Niksic and other towns. When Slovene communists requested the same (bombing of some Slovene towns) Tito's circle flatly denied request.

Terror bombing of Serbia has opened the door for Communist invasion and subsequent occupation of Serbia and the rest of Yugoslavia.

At that time, this move seemed illogical, but today we can understand it. Installing Tito's regime was crucial part of post-WWII scheme.

Serbs saved over 500 American airmen (and 100 Canadian and British) only to be tricked big time by the 'allies'. The results can be seen today.

In Yugoslavia Hitler has won WWII, with American help.

33 posted on 09/22/2004 6:35:15 AM PDT by DTA
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To: DTA
The only part missing is the direct role Bosnian terror Inc. alumni played in WTC1, 9-11, SS Cole, Millennial plot and Madrid terrorist attack." Yep, only (paid?) operatives fail to acknowledge the fact.

While our State Dept chants "Allah Akbar!" the US embassy in Pakistan has been locked down...a Chechen female terrorist threat. If the CIA can share ownership in Saudi oil does State have a stake in the drug/weapons cartels?
34 posted on 09/22/2004 7:38:21 AM PDT by getgoing
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To: getgoing; DTA; joan
European green ridge" - a cross-border area linking the Muslim populations of the Balkans region and crossing five countries, ending up on the Black Sea, alongside Turkey - is being targeted by the Islamist fundamentalist movement in an effort to penetrate the heart of Europe

getgoing, that sounds eerily familiar to my "yellow brick road" theory I have been decrying about for the past four years on here, doesnt it?

35 posted on 09/22/2004 7:53:00 AM PDT by ma bell (Niti cemo se pokoriti, niti ukloniti We shall neither yield or submit.)
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To: getgoing
>>>>>If the CIA can share ownership in Saudi oil does State have a stake in the drug/weapons cartels?<<<

Historically, The Company (a.k.a. Cocaine Import Agency ) was in charge of drug trafficking.

Methinks DOS is not up to snuff for drug trade. Taking Saudi money for spreading of radical islamism is an easy alternative.

36 posted on 09/22/2004 8:03:09 AM PDT by DTA
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To: ma bell
When ZETRA Ice Rink complex was opened for the Winter Olympics in Sarajevo in 1984 few knew what ZETRA means and why this term was chosen. It had no meaning in local language.

Popular explanation was that it stands for "ZElena TRAnsverzala", literally "Green transversal".

Think of two vertical lines representing WEST and EAST and horisontal one representing radical islamism.

At that time, Yugoslavia's eccomnomy was nosediving and the first signs of violent breakup were in the air.

Symbols are powerful tool of social control and this ZETRA thingk was great gimmick.

"Green transversal" route became political term 20 years before it materialized.

37 posted on 09/22/2004 9:09:36 AM PDT by DTA
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To: DTA
The only success USAAF scored was murdering of Serb civilians in Serbia and Montenegro.

We bombed the Zemun Aerodrome, the Belgrade rail marshalling yards, and the industrail area of Belgrade.

All military targets

Bombing being what it was back then, not all targets were hit with as much accuracy as we'd have liked - the Schweinfurt raid in 1943, for example, resulted in bombs hitting the ground 2 miles away from the intended target. So when you pitch a bitch about us missing our target on Easter in Belgrade by 600 yards, as the inquiry General Spaatz held into the matter found out, you're just going to have to realize that you need to be more of a man about it, like, say, the French, who lost between 15k to 20k civilians in the bombing leading up to D-Day, yet realize that what we were doing had a purpose directly related to defeating the Nazis.

As to your whining about how the Serbs got screwed after the war, Mihailovic made the mistake of revealing his 'Greater Serbia' aspirations to his British liason, in effect stating that he was going to deal with his non-Serb countrymen before taking the war to the Germans.

In essence, Mihailovic was just a stupid Serb, mired in the prejudices and grudges of his people, and willing to act upon them with bloody effect. Unfortunately, there are too many like him still around today.

UXO was found with inscription "happy Easter" written in Serbian

Well it makes perfect sense, doesn't it - the USAAF taught all it's recruits Serbian just so they could taunt the Serbs, knowing that some professional victims would make hay of it 60 years later. As we were excluding Serbian Americans from our military, it couldn't have been one of them expressing his feelings towards the German occupiers of his country, could it DTA.

38 posted on 09/22/2004 11:01:48 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
>>>>>We bombed the Zemun Aerodrome, the Belgrade rail marshalling yards, and the industrail area of Belgrade.<<<<

Belgrade and Zemun are located on the confluence of Sava and Danube rivers and unmistakable for target acquisition. (like gleaming silver T) Alleged targets were not hit.

>>>>Bombing being what it was back then, not all targets were hit with as much accuracy as we'd have liked - the Schweinfurt raid in 1943, for example, resulted in bombs hitting the ground 2 miles away from the intended target.<<<

Official USAAF reports show that special Norden ordnance sight enabled bombers to drop ordnance with such precission, colloquially "into pickle barrel". Do you want to say that USAAF lied ? If they did lie about Norden sights, on what grounds why we should believe into other reports?

>>>>So when you pitch a bitch about us missing our target on Easter in Belgrade by 600 yards, as the inquiry General Spaatz held into the matter found out, you're just going to have to realize that you need to be more of a man about it, like, say, the French, who lost between 15k to 20k civilians in the bombing leading up to D-Day, yet realize that what we were doing had a purpose directly related to defeating the Nazis.<<<<<

USAAF and RAF terror bombing of Serbian town did no harm to occupying German forces. This is in stark contrast with Operation Overlord. French did not die in vain. Serbs did die to allow easier Communist conquest.

>>>>In essence, Mihailovic was just a stupid Serb, mired in the prejudices and grudges of his people, and willing to act upon them with bloody effect. <<<<<<

FInally we agree on something. Before the war Mihailovic was the head of Intelligence Department of Yugoslav Army. But obviously he had no clue what Brits were doing in front of his nose, he had no clue who Tito was and had no clue that Brits are to ditch King Peter in favor of Tito. He was incompetent person who came at the top in the most dangerous time for Serbs.

>>>>Well it makes perfect sense, doesn't it - the USAAF taught all it's recruits Serbian just so they could taunt the Serbs, knowing that some professional victims would make hay of it 60 years later. As we were excluding Serbian Americans from our military, it couldn't have been one of them expressing his feelings towards the German occupiers of his country, could it DTA<<<<

It was an ORTHODOX EASTER, stupid. Germans are Protestants, Calvinists and RC. Bombs were intended to hit Serbs on THEIR EASTER. Any Serbian speaking RC or Communist could write such blasphemy.

>>>>As we were excluding Serbian Americans from our military,<<<<<

What are you talking about? Serb Americans earned Congressional Medals of Honor and Purple Hearts for WWII service.

39 posted on 09/22/2004 1:24:03 PM PDT by DTA
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To: DTA
What are you talking about?

Things of which you are incapable of understanding, apparently.

40 posted on 09/22/2004 2:41:46 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
I understand too well that you are Serb hating bigot who misinterpret the official historical records, resort to Nazi revisionism in order to defend indefendable, Croatian and Muslim Nazi past and present.

My intention is not to convince you of anything, you know the truth to well. I write only for the sake of lurkers who may not posses in depth knowledge of history.

When exposed in lies, you act like five year old xcaught with hands in a cookie jar.

41 posted on 09/22/2004 4:00:24 PM PDT by DTA
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To: DTA
You understand nothing, DTA.

You'd have Hap Arnold tried alongside Goering before you're done.

And I don't hate Serbs, DTA. I just won't accept people like you using FR to prosecute your idiotic little pseudo-race war through means disingenuous. When I point out that you don't know what you're talking about, all you have left is the bigot card, so you play it.

It's simple really, just like you.

42 posted on 09/22/2004 4:38:49 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
You claim that Serb Americans were EXCLUDED from U.S. military during WWII.

This is the level of your factual knowledge.

43 posted on 09/22/2004 6:56:40 PM PDT by DTA
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To: DTA
I was making the point that the most likely author of Serbian language bomb graffiti would be a Serbian American, and figured you'd understand that, as the USAAF didn't teach it's recruits Serbian, regardless of your opinion of the relative importance of such a skillset.

Do you know who Mitchell Paige is?

Look him up.

44 posted on 09/22/2004 7:50:07 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
So, you do know. Beside him, there are 7 Serb-American Congressional Medal of Honor recipients.

Speaking of language used for ordnance inscription for April 24 1944 raid, the key point is the foreknowledge of the ground crew about Belgrade being primary target than who wrote it. It could be anyone who knew the phrase "SRECAN USKRS". This inscription is full of cynicism because proper Eester greeting is CHRIST IS RISEN.

On that day 520 bombers were used, accompanied by the 100+ fighter planes. Interestingly enough, there is almost no record what they did over Belgrade. Take for example 97th Bombardment group:

5 April 1944 - Ploesti Marshalling Yard, Rumania
16 April 1944 - Belgrade Marshalling Yard, Yugoslavia
17 April 1944 - Belgrade Aircraft Factory, Yugoslavia
24 April 1944 - Ploesti South Marshalling Yard, Rumania
29 April 1944 - Toulon Submarine Pens, France
5 May 1944 - Ploesti Pumping Station, Rumania
6 May 1944 - Brasov Aircraft Factory, Rumania

Happy Easter detail is important because it shows that the records for April 24th were rigged. Downtown Belgrade WAS PRIMARY TARGET, not a target of opportunity on a way back from Ploesti.

Orthodox Easter bombing of Belgrade was premeditated murder. of civilians.

45 posted on 09/22/2004 9:54:04 PM PDT by DTA
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To: DTA
You know, I find myself looking into your allegations and coming up with yet another case of you not knowing what the hell you're talking about.

Ploesti was bombed on the 24th of April, as was an aircraft factory in Belgrade. The 520 bombers were a total sent out to all targets by the 15th on that day, not just those assigned to Belgrade.

04/24/44
Fifteenth AF
520-plus B-17's and B-24's bomb M/Ys at Bucharest and Ploesti, hit aircraft factory at Belgrade, and attack rail line between Rimini and Ancona. Over 250 ftrs fly spt for the HBs.
Source

Mission No. 14, 24 April 1944 – Chitila M/Y, Bucharest, Roumania

For the third time during the month the Group went to Chitila Marshalling Yard at Bucharest, Roumania.  This time the weather was CAVU with haze.  The target was picked up by the lead plane, but unfortunately a bomb rack malfunction temporarily held up the bombs in the lead plane, which overshot the target.  This was also true of most of the planes in the first attack unit who were dropping on the section leader.  The second Section saved the day for the Group by getting 11 per cent of all the bombs dropped by the Group on the briefed aiming point.  The flak was intense and heavy, but inaccurate.  Of the twenty-five enemy fighters seen, several were encountered, one was destroyed, and one was damaged.
Source
461 BG, 49th Bombardment Wing, 15th AF

Target: Ploesti, Romania - Marshalling Yard. 34 B-24's dropped 84 tons of bombs on target.
Source 450th BG, 15th AF

Also, 456th BG, 15th AF, 4/24/44, Mission No. 37, 18 Aircraft, Bucharest Romania.
Source

And unless you can document your "Happy Easter" allegation, it's just a confused retelling of the stories bandied around during Allied Force of similar messages being written on ordinance by NATO personnel.

It is interesting to note that the Clinton administration in the winter of 1998-1999 stopped its brief bombing campaign on Iraq due to the period of Ramadan on the Islamic calendar. However, both English and American warplanes continued to bomb the Serbian Christians throughout the Christian Holy Week and especially on Easter Sunday of the Orthodox Christian calendar. Some of the bombs that were dropped by English pilots had the message painted on them, "Happy Easter."
Source

The other grievance was who Nato was targeting. From the foreign broadcasts (CNN, SKY, BBC) the message came across loud and clear - we have no quarrel with the people of Serbia, only with the president and the army. So why, asked the people of Serbia, did you have to bomb over Easter, one of the most holy periods in the Serb calendar, as the Nazis had done in 1941? Why did we find an unexploded bomb with the words "Happy Easter" engraved, if you were on the side of the "people?"
Source

Russian Minister of Defense and the head of the Russian Orthodox Church Alexis II said that NATO bombed one of the oldest Christian Orthodox monasteries in Kosovo and British soldiers write "Happy Easter" on the bombs they drop on Serbs. If all of this does not qualify as crimes against humanity, I don't know what does.
Source

So in short, DTA, you're a victim of disinformation, and you compound that problem by accusing American servicemen of the premeditated murder of Serbian civilians.

Have you thought about posting at some other site? Perhaps one where your infantile anti-American BS would pass without such rudimentary scrutiny as I felt obligated to provide here?

Maybe you can write a column for antiwar.com, help Jared Israel out over at tenc.net, or compose your material for Ramsay Clark over at iacenter.org.

46 posted on 09/22/2004 11:46:32 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Nepalis

Clinton's Allies in the War On Terror.
47 posted on 09/22/2004 11:49:12 PM PDT by spodefly (A bunny-slippered operative in the Vast Right-Wing Pajama Party.)
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To: Hoplite; Balkans
According to data you posted (and one I saw before, along others), one can conclude that the area bombing of Belgrade April 24 1944 did not happen.

In reality, more than 2000 civilians were murdered. To put this number in perspective with known symbols of Nazi savagery:

">

GUERNICA: Luftwaffe murdered 1500 civilians

COVENTRY: Luftwaffe murdered 554 men, women and children

ROTTERDAM May 14 1940: Luftwaffe murdered 600-900 civilians

Sorry, no art is available to commemorate murder of 2000 civilians in Belgrade, although the number of murdered is larger than COVENTRY AND ROTTERDAM COMBINED.

All we got are rigged USAAF reports. Deception is also some kind of art, I guess.

That is how Democrats wage wars.

48 posted on 09/23/2004 7:45:09 AM PDT by DTA
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To: DTA
According to data you posted (and one I saw before, along others), one can conclude that the area bombing of Belgrade April 24 1944 did not happen.

No, one can conclude that you are incapable of dealing with facts, and choose to keep playing the victim regardless of said facts.

The limitations of the technology of the time, and the toll paid by the French, for example, have already been explained to you, yet here you are keeping with your original line of argument, impervious to any information that does not conform to your views on the subject.

How's about getting some documentary evidence backing up your allegation regarding that "Happy Easter" UXO?

49 posted on 09/23/2004 8:06:18 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: DTA; Hoplite
distortions become facts when written on "official letterhead". i.e Racak Hoax on the number of dead and the tragic story of Albanians being duped by their fellow Albs.

Bewailing oneself onto the muslims of Kosovo besmirches all those who are fighting our war on terror. Aint that right hop?

50 posted on 09/23/2004 8:31:43 AM PDT by ma bell (Niti cemo se pokoriti, niti ukloniti We shall neither yield or submit.)
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