Posted on 09/21/2004 3:17:51 AM PDT by F14 Pilot
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - The United States plans to sell Israel $139 million worth of air-launched bombs, including 500 "bunker busters" able to penetrate Iran's underground nuclear facilities, Israeli security sources said on Tuesday.
The Haaretz newspaper quoted a Pentagon report as saying the planned procurement sought "to maintain Israel's qualitative advantage and advance U.S. strategic and tactical interests."
The U.S. embassy in Israel had no comment, referring queries to Washington. Israel's Defense Ministry also declined comment.
But a senior Israeli security source who confirmed the Haaretz story told Reuters: "This is not the sort of ordnance needed for the Palestinian front. Bunker busters could serve Israel against Iran, or possibly Syria."
Haaretz quoted Israeli government sources as saying the sale, including 4,500 other guided munitions, was not expected to go through until after the U.S. elections in November. Earlier this month, Haaretz said Israel sought to obtain the U.S.-made, one-ton "bunker buster" bombs for a possible future strike against arch-foe Iran's atomic development program, which the Jewish state considers a strategic threat.
Tehran denies hostile designs, saying its nuclear program has peaceful purposes only. This week, it rejected international calls to comply with a U.N. International Atomic Energy Agency demand that it halt all uranium-enrichment activities.
Among the nuclear facilities that Iran has declared are uranium mines near the city of Yazd, and a uranium-enrichment plant in Natanz incorporating large underground buildings that could accommodate thousands of gas centrifuges.
Western diplomats accuse Iran of having several undeclared facilities close to Tehran thought to be related to uranium enrichment, a process the United States and some other countries believe Tehran will use to produce fissile material for weapons.
The exiled Iranian opposition group known as the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI) says Iran is constructing numerous secret facilities under its Defense Ministry.
DIPLOMACY STILL SEEN AS PREFERABLE
Known by the military designations GBU-27 or GBU-28, "bunker busters" are guided by lasers or satellites and can penetrate up to 30 feet of earth and concrete. Israel may already have some of the bombs for its U.S.-supplied F-15 fighter jets.
As they are part of the weapon set for the F-15, I would assume them to be in place," said Robert Hewson, editor of Jane's Air-Launched Weapons. He said the bombs proved effective in the 1991 Gulf war and 1990s NATO strikes on Serbian forces. Israel, which is widely assumed to be the Middle East's only nuclear-armed nation, wants to stop Iran going atomic, but officials say diplomatic pressure on Tehran is the best method.
Many believe a military strike, especially by Israel, could kill off any chance of a diplomatic resolution or efforts by Iranian opposition groups to achieve internal reform. "I think (military action) should be a last, last, last resort. Unlike Iraq and North Korea, there is at least some chance of bringing about an undermining of the Velayat-e Faqih's authority," former CIA director R. James Woolsey told Reuters this month, referring to Iran's ruling Islamic clerics.
Convinced Saddam Hussein was developing nuclear weapons, Israel bombed Iraq's Osiraq reactor in 1981. While the move drew international censure, eventually many U.S. experts saw it as an important blow to Saddam's strategic weapons capabilities.
"The response of the United States was, unfortunately, negative with respect to Osiraq," Woolsey said. "The Israelis were right and everybody else was wrong, including us, in 1981."
The Osiraq strike did not stop Saddam's quest for the bomb. Instead, Iraq went underground and worked in secret until the program was uncovered by the U.N. nuclear watchdog in 1991.
(Additional reporting by Louis Charbonneau in Vienna)
IMPORTANT PING
If Israel is talking about it, this is a political interdiction effort, not a military operation in the planning pipeline.
However, once the capability is in place, one has the capacity to turn into the other.
GBU 28's will be effective against above ground reactor containment shells, perhaps against the core vessel itself. Underground facilities are another story. I hope the US Legislature doesn't have cause to regret its refusal to grant research into high energy systems for this purpose.
To our US President:
Oh, Mr. President, please send 'em the ordnance! ...please!
Those bunker busters are safe, humane, effective, and there's very little clean-up!
Even our very large craters made by the very old test cratering devices in the US southwest were easy to clean up. People in the US take sightseeing tours into them.
The bunkerbusters would be no problem for civilians in Persia.
There are nuclear bunker busters, though, that are very safe and leave very little above-ground fallout. Israel should be requesting those, IMO, and before the target is made more dangerous by the fuel rod shipment.
I think the Israelis should be seeking cratering devices (bunker busters) that go deeper, though. They would be safer than any device that only penetrates 30 feet.
If we wait for the fuel rods to be loaded, the contamination would reduce the odds of reusing the site. The cpntamination might also mask our use of a nuclear bunker buster, or at least make it argumentative.
Deeper and deeper using 3 waves of bunker busters to dig deeper on each turn until the Ayatollahs squeal....
"Such is the will of Allah the merciless, who the Jews control"
Jackmercer's earlier speculation: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1177612/posts?page=1,50
You know, that's not a bad idea. It would be more cost effective than using the devices I mentioned.
My thinking was limited to experience with firing an old ground-based cratering device (M180).
I'd read it, Thanks
...true. And might a good hit or twelve even prevent a meltdown? That would also take care of the problem of the existence of the fuel. Hmmm.
A 15-25 megaton warhead detonated at the surface digs REALLY deep. About 600 feet. Yes, there's lots of fallout. At least it would be fallout that we could predict, unlike any fallout from an Iranian device that was detonated at a place and time of their choosing.
The Nuclear Bunker Busters in our arsenal have never received a full field test, but the specs are awesome.
http://www.wired.com/news/story/0,1240,47319,00.html
Check out the B61-11... our nuclear bunker buster.
Nice! The article does not point out that the bombing of osiraq set saddam's bomb efforts back years.
thanks for posting
Iran is OPEC's second largest producer of oil. Why do they need a nuclear reactor to produce energy? They lie.
Wait, I thought a nuclear power plant could be destroyed by a Cessna-150. That's why we need to ban general aviation from those areas, according to the feds.
Thanks for the link. The B61-11 sounds pretty handy. I suspect it would be hard to know for sure if it ever had a full field test.
I'm fascinationed how you make a nuke into a directional charge.
What ever did happen to Sadaam's Bunker, anyway?
I would be shocked if that were not the real device of choice for the job. That's what I had in mind earlier in the thread when talking about easy clean-up. They go deep and don't make much of a high dirty cloud at all.
Even our old cratering devices tested in Nevada (several hundred feet depth) didn't make much fallout.
Defying a key demand set by 35 nations, Iran announced on Tuesday that it has started converting raw uranium into the gas needed for enrichment, a process that can be used to make nuclear weapons.
"Tests are going on successfully" to make uranium hexafluoride gas, the feed stock for enrichment, said Iranian Vice-President Reza Aghazadeh.
FYI >>> that Nuke plant in Bushehr was made back in 1975 during the Shah's reign. German Siemens company started that in 1975 and halted the project right after 1979 revolution.
No doubt a substantial discount was involved. ; )
Israelis don't do anything half-way, do they?
I hope we won't see another bloodshed in Iran
Bang!
If they take out Iran's nuke program for us, why not GIVE them the bombs?
Since 1978 when the Iranians took over our embassy and took hostages, the U.S. has been referred to as the great satan and we have been on the receiving end of terrorists attacks from Iran's minions.
I remember all too well the marines in Lebanon (Beirut) and the airliner that was hijacked and flown to Beirut.
Our lack of appreciation for what the Islamists have sought for these three decades plus has only emboldened them.
Preemptive action similar to what the Israelis did to Saddam's nuclear program is past due. For that matter for North Korea as well.
If we give these people enough rope, they will hang us.
When their recent military parade had missiles capable of carrying nuclear devices and on those missiles were hung anti-American, death to USA slogans, I'd say their concept of telling us the truth isn't worthy of our trust.
I'm going to have to look up a story from my youth, "Ali Babba and the Forty Thieves" to see what that was all about. It's only a vague memory now.
I agree. But we must maintain the appearances. I say, oh, about $1.99 each, would be a fair price.
Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
By the way, if you really fly F-14's I would love your opinion on those who claim that the Preisident is not to smart. Seems to me that you have to be pretty sharp to fly at Mach 2
Cripes! Why sell them?!?! Lets GIVE them the toys for free and keep 'em coming! Only condition on the gift? They toys muct be USED.
"I agree. But we must maintain the appearances. I say, oh, about $1.99 each, would be a fair price."
If they're buying them with military aid $$, then they are sort of free. (to them.)
I personally think it's money well spent.
Popular Mechanics is still the best:)
Boom ~ Bump!!
Sell them some stealth bombers too.
according to the Discovery Channel, who did a show on this - it wasn't even touched. these conventional bunker busters will not have any effect on modern bunkers.
did you see the Discovery Channel show on these bunkers? at best, in one of Saddam's bunkers, some of the doors wouldn't close straight. that's it.
that bunker complex at Tora Bora that we all say sketches of - never existed, it was a myth.
kewl!
how many do you need?
It's not like they couldn'y build bunker-busters themselves...The first ones were made from surplus 8-inch artillery tubes...ie the barell of a cannon.
If the devices are accurate you just stack them. The first goes 30'. The second goes >30' and <60', etc., etc.
> why not GIVE them the bombs?
Free after rebate.
Actually, we are giving them the weapons. The sale is from the military aid we give Israel. Israel gets the money and has flexibility in choosing what US weapons it wants to spend it on.
If i was in charge i'd ship them over to Israel for free and then they can do us all a favour...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.