Putin: Ally or Terrorist? (Russian FSB/KGB Real Culprits Behind "Chechen Terrorism")

The New American ^ | February 2002 | William Jasper

[Frank_Discussion]

Some of us aren't birchies, but don't trust ol' Pooty-poot. If you can't see Putin's power grab in response to Beslan, your blinders are huge. Some, if not most, conspiracy theories are paranoid bunk, but the avarice of Putin and his contemporaries is not one of them, IMHO. The books that GIJoel mentioned have been around for twenty years, and the plan outlined therein keeps getting validated.

Here's a thought to ponder: Who did Putin point to when responding to the tragedy of Beslan? The West. Given that Islam and its terror were borne of the Middle East, what is the logic of blaming the West? There is indeed a logic, albeit not a comfortable one.

[hchutch]

We got some serious problems in Chechnya - not only do the folks backing the Chechen terrorists have good press agents, they (and the Saudis) have a ton of influence at Foggy Bottom.

The State Department seems all too willing to take the side fo folks who wish us no good. Look what they did to Carlos Castano - and look how they give Israel and Taiwan the shaft whenever possible.

We ought to say that the next terrorist action involving Chechens against anyone will result in those who we've granted asylum to be turned over to Russia.

[Frank_Discussion]

"Sheesh!!! We actually have a terrorist supporter on Free Republic!"

Wait a sec, there, bud. The Chechens have their own issues with terror and dastardliness, but it's a matter of tools being wielded. The terrorists are convenient weapons, much as the "useful idiots" elsewhere. The Chechens terrorists have been bastards all on their own.

(Yeah, your reply was to GIJoel, not me, but I just didn't think it was a fair statement you made. And by association, I felt insulted.)

[MarMema]

Who did Putin point to when responding to the tragedy of Beslan? The West.

And almost immediately afterward, a muslim "charity" in Ashland Oregon was raided for sending funds to chechen terrorists, proving that Putin was correct. Big money.

[MarMema]

We ought to say that the next terrorist action involving Chechens against anyone will result in those who we've granted asylum to be turned over to Russia.

A few days ago I read that the Brits had changed their minds due to "increased activity" among the chechens they gave aslyum to.

The west needs to wake up. These chechens are infiltrating and collecting for their terrorist scum back home. The left loves them, like Vanessa Redgrave, who probably sends tons of cash to Basayev personally.

[sinkspur]

The Chechens have their own issues with terror and dastardliness, but it's a matter of tools being wielded.

LOL!!! Do the mullahs in Iran have a problem with their own terrorists, too?

[MarMema]

If you can't see Putin's power grab in response to Beslan,

What you see as a power grab, Italy saw as a way to fight corruption. They did the same thing when their local peasants were being intimidated and regional leaders were stuffing the ballot boxes.

The other important thing to understand is that only 2/3 of Russia's regions have governors to be appointed by Putin. So for instance Moscow is not under Putin's control. Coincidentally, those running Moscow are not crime moguls either.

[TOUGH STOUGH]

On this issue we are very much agreed.

[MarMema]

In some of those outlying areas, such as Beslan, where Putin will try to appoint leaders, only 20% of the population was even voting. These are poor parts of the world. People are struggling to eat, and when someone with cash offers them dinner for the next six months or tells them they will kill their husband if they vote, no problem.

Putin's suggestion will enable people he finds to be free of corruption to fill these slots and is a wonderful idea.

[wtc911]

About the Russian Army....I was in Kosovo a couple of years ago and witnessed the following one night while with a US Army unit....

I accompanied an escort of some civilian personnel from Bondsteel to a Russian facility at night. The Russian soldiers on guard were openly smoking reefer. While we were waiting a new Mercedes (the local gangsters' ride of choice) pulled up to deliver two whores for the Russian officers. When the guard changed they left their weapons for use by the arriving relief. The Joes I was with have no respect for the capabilities, the discipline, the training or the morale of the Russian Army.

Of course the boob who started this thread wants us to believe that this, along with the Russian Army's failure to control Chechnya is nothing more than a Machiavellian scheme to lull us into a false sense of security so that they may spring the trap when the time is right. But then he also wants us to believe that it is the left in America who has duped us into believing that the terrorists are muslims.

[wtc911]

"Sheesh!!! We actually have a terrorist supporter on Free Republic!"

This might be the only comment by sinkspur with which I agree. The poster you are defending has launched a campaign here to convince us that the left is behind the terror, not islam and that islam is just a misunderstood, peace loving group of lugs. He also sings praises for the religious freedoms in turkey, a country that is 99% muslim and where you can get arrested for giving a Bible to a friend.

I don't know what your inclinations are but dig a bit before you jump to defend a propagandist for islam.

[Frank_Discussion]

I'm happy that the SOB's were shut down. However, I don't believe that was Putin's context when pointing to the West. He specifically aligned us with those who wished the "carve out a chunk" of Russia, or some similar hyperbole. I certainly don't expect that you think it's resonable of him to say we're aiding and abetting terror front groups in this country.

Look, I've come in late to this discussion, and I've only been able to skim the comments. Here's my take:

There are published plans for the USSR playing possum that have been existence for a long, long time. Prior to the dissolution of the Soviet system, I might add. These plans continue to gain validation, the steps back to reconstitution continue to fall on the path. Not everything has gone the Bolsheviks' way, but by and large the march seems to be relentlessly forward.

Of course, those who see this and dare mention it are labeled "terrorist supporters" for pointing out ulterior motives and subsequent actions of those who would take advantage of the terrorists. Hogwash.

I don't think any right-thinking, moral person would condone terrorism like Beslan. What is being pointed out is that there are two options some of us consider: A man like Putin may either be taking advantage of the situation, or is involved in a an actual bit of puppetry. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in-between.

No one wants to see the USSR reconstitute, rather the whole point of highlighting the antidemocratic nature of Putin's moves is to try to confront it and stop it.

I am not wearing a tinfoil beanie, I assure you. I'm a big-R Republican with an eye on those things that say "truth is stranger than fiction." Politics and International relations have always been shadowy things, and there is a lot of denial about the current shadows.

[Frank_Discussion]

"In some of those outlying areas, such as Beslan, where Putin will try to appoint leaders, only 20% of the population was even voting."

If you substituted the name "Bush" for "Putin", would you still be okay with it? There are areas of THIS country with very low voter participation, I personally don't think the right to vote needs to be deleted just because "they weren't using it anyway". I've had cars I didn't use for a long time in my driveway, that wouldn't give someone the right to steal them.

I'd be d*mned if someone took away my right to vote, just because I hadn't exercised it for a while.

[GIJoel]

None of the above. I'm an AMERICAN.

[jb6]

My quote pertains to the reporting of the presence of tanks in the battle...it was reported by PRO-PUTIN PUBLICATIONS.

Hmm, then you must be reading different special versions of those 3 sources, because I can't find anything in them pro_Putin. Care to send links to the pro-Putin stories?

[jb6]

Pravda is not state controlled. It is part of the communist party papers, they are an opposition party. Please keep those facts straight, it will make this conversation much easier.

[Frank_Discussion]

I don't quite get your intended meaning. Let me rephrase what I said, for clarity:

Just because the Chechens can be heinous, evil terrorists does by no means exclude the Russian government from taking advantage of the situation, or indeed guiding events, to achieve a desired domestic result.

To be honest, I think this was possibly an FSB/KGB op that went beyond its mission definition, and I think Putin has some true anger over the brutality that resulted. Threatening to kill as many children as were in school would have been enough to anger the population, and I think the whole thing unexpectedly went to hell in a handcart. I'm disinclined to blindly swallow that Putin ordered the outright death of those poor babies, but I am prepared to accept that he was negligent.

[jb6]

One correction..."...the people voted freely...", past tense.

Boy that sounds just like what DNC is already saying about the upcoming elections in the US and how Bush is going to steal them. You slant that by the fact that this is not an election year, last year was the last Duma election year. As I said, you were well taught on propaganda and using half truths.

[A. Pole]

You mean she wasn't Jewish? A non-Jewish liberal, I'm shocked.

I do not understand, what is your point?

[jb6]

Putin just suspended elections for governors in Russia,

And England never had them. As a matter of fact, England doesn't even have a constitution and Blair has been in power almost 10 years. We had better get really concerned with the English Communist Empire.