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The Fall
National Review Online ^ | September 24, 2004 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 09/24/2004 6:21:27 AM PDT by sola_fide

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1 posted on 09/24/2004 6:21:28 AM PDT by sola_fide
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To: sola_fide

Another great piece by Victor Davis Hanson.


2 posted on 09/24/2004 6:22:34 AM PDT by sola_fide
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To: sola_fide; seamole; Lando Lincoln; quidnunc; .cnI redruM; yonif; SJackson; dennisw; monkeyshine; ...


    Victor Davis Hanson Ping ! 
3 posted on 09/24/2004 6:24:37 AM PDT by Tolik
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To: sola_fide

This is playing out like a Geek tragedy.....(sic).....


4 posted on 09/24/2004 6:30:59 AM PDT by Red Badger (If you shoot from the hip enough times, eventually you'll shoot yourself in the a$$......)
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To: sola_fide
“...wigged aristocrats on their way to the Guillotine”

Hope 'ol Danny-boy tips the guy dropping the 'slicer'.

For a small pittance... they used to resharpen the blade to ensure a clean cut.

When dealing with sooo many customers, the blade... alas... loses its edge and the process becomes redundant.

5 posted on 09/24/2004 6:35:52 AM PDT by johnny7 (“You talkin' bout' the Queen again Bob? ON INDEPENDENCE DAY?!!” -Little Bill)
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To: Tolik

As old a story as the garden of eden and all greek drama...UBRIS...THE FALL:

If we wonder why CBS is in trouble, why no one trusts the universities or the U.N., or why the Democrats may soon lose the Senate, the House, the presidency, and the Supreme Court, the answer has a lot to do with ...ARROGANCE.


6 posted on 09/24/2004 6:38:05 AM PDT by UltraKonservativen (( YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID ))
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To: sola_fide

Very well said. Dan.............go now!


7 posted on 09/24/2004 6:38:44 AM PDT by Sunshine Sister
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To: Tolik

Nail this one to the door of every network and to the tail of every reporter and editor. He is simply terrific..BRAVO!


8 posted on 09/24/2004 6:40:55 AM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL on issues of national security for two decades)
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To: sola_fide

VDH should have his own television show just for the sake of a wider audience. He is terrific.


9 posted on 09/24/2004 6:51:34 AM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (Savor the present as the days of Kerry's whine and poses. It'll be a nice memory when you are old.)
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To: sola_fide

Its interesting since Victor Davis Hanson is a conservative Democrat. He despises his own party for trashing both its soul and and its best causes in the pursuit of power and naked expediency. No wonder they've long had it coming to them.


10 posted on 09/24/2004 6:56:39 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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Danron CBS Logo

[Danron logo, Rev 2.0.]

11 posted on 09/24/2004 6:57:34 AM PDT by Fixit (comedian.blogspot.com)
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To: sola_fide

The libs are going supernova. They'll end up as a white dwarf glowing inconspicuously in a corner of our consciousness.


12 posted on 09/24/2004 7:01:13 AM PDT by claudiustg (Go Sharon! Go Bush!)
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To: sola_fide

PREACH IT BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!

Victor Davis Hanson is right on the mark with this beauty!! This article is a keeper!!!!


13 posted on 09/24/2004 7:01:45 AM PDT by kb2614 ( You have everything to fear, including fear itself. - The new DNC slogan)
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To: sola_fide

Well, that does a pretty good job of 'splaining it. Arrogance and Hypocrisy have been the suicidal weapons of modern Liberalism. Is a Liberal just naturally a spoiled arrogant, hypocritical brat out of which spouts Liberal thought as a matter of course, or is Liberal thought and teaching presented in the public school system without much competition resulting in whole new crops of Liberals who didn't use their brain cells to reason things out? Which came first, the Liberal chicken or the Liberal egg? Is Liberalism merely a personality disorder that has been allowed to seek its level like water?


14 posted on 09/24/2004 7:05:27 AM PDT by Twinkie
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To: WorkingClassFilth
VDH should have his own television show just for the sake of a wider audience. He is terrific.

I always seem to miss him when he is on TV. I'm with you, if he had a show, I would be sure to watch. I first "discovered" him after 9/11. The articles he wrote for NRO then were just outstanding. His grasp of history and ability to put current events in historical context are unsurpassed.

I do get the impression that he is a bit of what I call an "agrarian utopist." While I don't share this view, he does make some valid points.

15 posted on 09/24/2004 7:13:51 AM PDT by sola_fide
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To: sola_fide

He is big on the agrarian thing, but I can live with that since his allegiance to the traditions of freedom and the eminence of truth are solid. I first found him with his book on 'The Western Way of War' (heavily into the relationships of culture, war and agriculture) but, like you, rediscovered him after 9/11. Maybe the best thing I like is his clarity and the ability to put context into the grasp of every reader. No intellectual BS - just the facts with balance. A good read every time.


16 posted on 09/24/2004 7:19:21 AM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (Savor the present as the days of Kerry's whine and poses. It'll be a nice memory when you are old.)
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To: sola_fide

Good find!


17 posted on 09/24/2004 7:20:20 AM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: IncPen; Nailbiter; Forecaster
But in the process there also began a professional devolution, as questionable legal and ethical methods were excused in the name of the greater good. We got the Ellsberg pilfered documents, the blank check of "unnamed sources," trips to Hanoi and Paris to meet the enemy, Peter Arnett broadcasting gloom and doom live from Baghdad — all culminating in the two-bit forgeries used for the "higher" cause of unseating George Bush. Daniel Ellsberg, Jane Fonda, and CBS may have done things that were legally wrong (like the latter's promulgating fraudulent government documents to defame a government official), but in postmodern logic they were morally "right" given their superior knowledge, character, and progressive intentions.

Devastating indictment.

18 posted on 09/24/2004 7:24:08 AM PDT by BartMan1
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To: sola_fide
>Mr. Rather would do well to remember Leo Amery's famous evocation of Cromwell . . .

Everyone who quotes
the Protector would do well
to remember what

happened when he died.
(And the extremes he went to
to "protect" England

while he was alive.
It's not at all clear he was
really a good guy . . .)

19 posted on 09/24/2004 7:57:57 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: Twinkie
"Is a Liberal just naturally a spoiled arrogant, hypocritical brat out of which spouts Liberal thought as a matter of course, or is Liberal thought and teaching presented in the public school system without much competition resulting in whole new crops of Liberals who didn't use their brain cells to reason things out?

This is a great question and one that could be debated endlessly since it is, in effect, the age-old question of "nature vs. nurture".

If forced to choose, I'd say the latter is the cause, and the former is merely the dreadful result. Being a spoiled hypocrite strikes me as being more of a learned behavior as opposed to an inherent part of one's nature. When you have teachers that are on a constant vigil against having someone's baby dumpling's precious self-esteem shaken in even the slightest way and the teacher dare not tell them them they're wrong or lacking somehow, I'm amazed that the result could be anything else.

Surely the lack of competing ideas and an insistance on "political correctness" leads, ironically, to a kind of cookie-cutter conformity which seems to be the antithesis of the liberal notion of "individuality". (I can't help thinking about the young tattooed and pierced person who did it as a form of self-expression, and ends up looking like all of his or her tattooed and pierced peers who did it for the same reason, and it all makes me chuckle.)

There are many other things that reinforce the liberal mindset in school, but I don't have the time to get into them...I have to get back to work!

Of course, as we learn more about the structure and function of the brain, perhaps we will learn that liberals and conservatives are indeed born and not made, but I have a gut feeling the odds are against it. Time will tell, I suppose.

20 posted on 09/24/2004 8:28:43 AM PDT by P H Lewis ("I wish somebody would tell me what diddy-wah-diddy means." - Blind Arthur Blake)
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To: sola_fide; Tolik
Thanks for the VDH post and ping!

I am glad to have known before Rathergate.

Imagine the shock of finding out your "friends" on TV and in "hometown" papers have been deceiving you - after election 2000, 911, and after over 18 months of daily spinning re. Iraq?

I felt so guilty about Vietnam - for having betrayed our veterans by believing Walter Cronkite and Hollywood lies.

We didn't have access to the primary sources then.

We may need a national period of mourning, forgiveness, to get beyond this latest national shame - the latest betrayal of all we hold dear by our own mighty free press, and those who bought the slickly packaged lies.

...millions of Americans learned long ago that there are probably more liberals on Fox than conservatives on PBS, NPR, CBS, ABC, and NBC combined — and the former are honest about politics in a way the latter are not.

21 posted on 09/24/2004 9:01:35 AM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl ("The proper response to difficulty is not to retreat -- it is to prevail."- Pres. Bush, CinC, 9/21)
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To: sola_fide

Beautiful. Hanson at his best.


22 posted on 09/24/2004 10:22:55 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: theFIRMbss

No, Cromwell was not a good guy. But it was a great line.


23 posted on 09/24/2004 10:23:26 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: sola_fide

BTTT.

VDH is always good, but this one is especially good.


24 posted on 09/24/2004 11:00:18 AM PDT by spodefly (A bunny-slippered operative in the Vast Right-Wing Pajama Party.)
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To: sola_fide
But the regime is crumbling on campuses as well.

I pray that it is so.

25 posted on 09/24/2004 1:07:18 PM PDT by happygrl
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To: sola_fide

I absolutely love this guys mind. I can't imagine the pleasure I'd have being a student in his class.


26 posted on 09/24/2004 1:09:31 PM PDT by bikepacker67 (Sandy wasn't stuffing his socks, he was stuffing A sock.)
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To: Cicero
No, Cromwell was not a good guy. But it was a great line.

Cromwell was not a good guy but he did one great thing. He reversed the policy of forbidding Jews to live in England. This act led to England, and ultimately America, becoming a sanctuary for Jews who otherwise might have perished, first in the pogroms and later in the Holocaust. An underappreciated act of extraordinary importance.

27 posted on 09/24/2004 1:13:03 PM PDT by jalisco555 ("The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity." W. B. Yeats)
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To: Tolik; JohnHuang2; Luis Gonzalez; writer33

WOW!!! This rocks!


28 posted on 09/24/2004 1:16:11 PM PDT by Republic (Terri Schiavo,saved by TERRI's LAW after 7 days of starvation, fights ACLU-Felos to keep law intact)
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To: Republic
This nugget is especially tasty:

The U.N. also seems to be going the way of CBS. Only a little over a quarter of our citizenry feels that the organization reflects American values. Kofi Annan was blind to the greatest financial scandal of our time, one that contributed to the deaths of thousands in Iraq and enriched cronies, including perhaps his own son. He survives only because a biased media has judged that his progressivism warrants shielding him from the type of scrutiny afforded Halliburton.

Under Mr. Annan, the U.N. won't say a word about Tibet or do anything about the thousands butchered in Africa — how can it when murdering states such as Cuba, Algeria, and Iran are on its committees overseeing human rights? Kofi Annan's U.N. has lost its ideals, become counterfeit, and thus is now mostly irrelevant.

29 posted on 09/24/2004 1:17:36 PM PDT by bikepacker67 (Sandy wasn't stuffing his socks, he was stuffing A sock.)
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To: BartMan1
You are so right-that is writing of devastating quality and insight.

Especially the first line of that paragraph-

But in the process there also began a professional devolution, as questionable legal and ethical methods were excused in the name of the greater good.

Absolutely dead on. And scary. And we have been LIVING with this ideology from our MSM for a LONG TIME.

Thank GOD for the internet, talk radio and Fox News and writers like the author of this article and their publishers, who so clearly nail the deception.

30 posted on 09/24/2004 1:21:59 PM PDT by Republic (Terri Schiavo,saved by TERRI's LAW after 7 days of starvation, fights ACLU-Felos to keep law intact)
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To: bikepacker67

It almost hurts to see these truths in print.


31 posted on 09/24/2004 1:22:58 PM PDT by Republic (Terri Schiavo,saved by TERRI's LAW after 7 days of starvation, fights ACLU-Felos to keep law intact)
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To: Republic
I know what you mean...

It makes you want to cry out:
"WHAT TOOK SO DAMN LONG?"

32 posted on 09/24/2004 1:25:37 PM PDT by bikepacker67 (Sandy wasn't stuffing his socks, he was stuffing A sock.)
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To: sola_fide
Bookmarked. This is an indictment of a profoundly dishonest generation of political enthusiasts, and one of the finest pieces I have seen on the topic. The better part of the Democratic party - the Millers, the Hansons - sits back appalled at the wreckage these people have visited on one of the pillars of our republic.

The purging will have to come from within - Republicans can't do it. It is high time for the party of Scoop Jackson, Hubert Humphrey, and Harry Truman to find its soul again after a nightmare tramp through the swamp of postmodern nihilism, courtesy of the folks - the Clintons, the Kerrys - who imagined they were freeing the world when they spit on the troops lo those many years ago. It will not be easy. They are at the high arc of their political careers and will not go quietly.

Hillary in particular intends to resurrect their effort four years hence. That, I suspect, will represent the final battle for the soul of a generation. The battle-lines are being drawn in this election, the veterans have awakened and are discovering that at last they have a voice, and the forces that shouted them down thirty years ago are surprised and shaken, but not defeated. This is going to be a long struggle.

33 posted on 09/24/2004 1:48:46 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: sola_fide
The mama pajama rolled out of bed
She ran to the PC station
When the papa Freeped out, he began to shout
And he started the investigation
Forging’s against the law, Rather’s against the law
What the mama saw, it was against the law
Now mama looks down and spits on the ground
Every time Rather’s name gets mentioned
The papa said, "Oy, if I get that boy
I'm gonna stick him in the house of detention"
Well, I'm on my way
I don't know where I'm going
I'm on my way
I'm taking my time but I don't know where
Goodbye to Danny, the King of Media
See you, me and Julio down by the schoolyard
See you, me and Julio down by the schoolyard

In a couple of days they come and take me away
But the press let the story leak
Now when the FR Poster came to get me released
We was all on the cover of Newsweek
And I'm on my way
I don't know where I'm going
But I'm on my way
I'm taking my time but I don't know where
Goodbye to Danny, the King of Media
See you, me and Julio down by the schoolyard
See you, me and Julio down by the schoolyard
See you, me and Julio down by the schoolyard.

34 posted on 09/24/2004 2:00:34 PM PDT by O Neill (Swift Vote Republicans For Bush)
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To: O Neill

Simon and Garfunkel bump ;-)


35 posted on 09/24/2004 4:07:56 PM PDT by bikepacker67 (Sandy wasn't stuffing his socks, he was stuffing A sock.)
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To: Billthedrill
courtesy of the folks - the Clintons, the Kerrys

Don't forget the goober farmer.

36 posted on 09/24/2004 4:09:45 PM PDT by bikepacker67 (Sandy wasn't stuffing his socks, he was stuffing A sock.)
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To: sola_fide
Hanson, Steyn, Coulter... name a writer on the left that can hold a candle to any them. Another great commentary from Hanson. He puts a sharp stick right in CBS's lying "eye".
37 posted on 09/24/2004 4:25:54 PM PDT by bootyist-monk (<--------------------- Republican Attack Machine)
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To: sola_fide; William Wallace
"...worse than all that was Rather's ten-day denial of reality, culminating in the surreal half-admission that the phony documents could not be verified as accurate. That's the equivalent of saying that a corpse cannot be proven to be alive."

Great stuff!

38 posted on 09/24/2004 4:50:48 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Republic

Thanks for the heads up!


39 posted on 09/24/2004 5:34:37 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: sola_fide
The Fall: A bankrupt generation is fading away.

That was the full title of the article. I've been thinking this but it takes guts to put it in print.
40 posted on 09/24/2004 5:39:29 PM PDT by etradervic (If Kerry is the answer, what was the question?)
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To: Billthedrill

Your fabulous post reads as beautifully real as this particularly excellent article.


41 posted on 09/24/2004 7:18:40 PM PDT by Republic (Terri Schiavo,saved by TERRI's LAW after 7 days of starvation, fights ACLU-Felos to keep law intact)
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To: MEG33; PhiKapMom; YaYa123; jimrob; Wait4Truth; ohioWfan; afraidfortherepublic; kristinn; ...
Nail this one to the door of every network and to the tail of every reporter and editor. He is simply terrific..BRAVO!

OH YEAH!

All-FYI-this read is just so brilliantly put, so revealing and all encompassing. Just about every sentence is worth quoting.

42 posted on 09/24/2004 7:23:17 PM PDT by Republic (Terri Schiavo,saved by TERRI's LAW after 7 days of starvation, fights ACLU-Felos to keep law intact)
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To: Billthedrill

"Hillary in particular intends to resurrect their effort four years hence. That, I suspect, will represent the final battle for the soul of a generation. The battle-lines are being drawn in this election, the veterans have awakened and are discovering that at last they have a voice, and the forces that shouted them down thirty years ago are surprised and shaken, but not defeated. This is going to be a long struggle."

Bumpus Maximus. You, Sir, are not just astute. You are a prophet. (Not that many Freepers aren't).

Yes, this will be a long struggle; we are in very deep weeds as a republic with the malleable middle of the electorate profoundly ignorant of history, the Constitution and the massive manipulation of truth by the media elites. Freepers are, alas, an anomaly: by and large both informed and intelligent.

Hillary Regina and Bubba Rex, the ultimate opportunistic infections of our body politic, are waiting in the wings... Pray.


43 posted on 09/24/2004 7:35:26 PM PDT by esopman (Blessings on Freepers Everywhere)
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To: Darksheare

Must read..!


44 posted on 09/24/2004 7:35:38 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL on issues of national security for two decades)
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To: Republic
Printing it off.....

THANKS for the ping for this excellent analysis, Republic!

45 posted on 09/24/2004 7:41:50 PM PDT by ohioWfan (BUSH 2004 -Leadership, Integrity, Morality)
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To: jalisco555
Cromwell was not a good guy but he did one great thing. He reversed the policy of forbidding Jews to live in England. This act led to England, and ultimately America, becoming a sanctuary for Jews who otherwise might have perished, first in the pogroms and later in the Holocaust. An under appreciated act of extraordinary importance.

Thank you for this post...I never knew this, or had forgotten it like about a thousand other things, lol, and reading your post was so enlightening. Cromwell certainly did perform an immense 'act of extraordinary importance'.

46 posted on 09/24/2004 7:55:50 PM PDT by Republic (Will michael shiavo and his concubine and children now preside over the murder of Terri?)
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To: sola_fide

Bump.


47 posted on 09/24/2004 8:38:34 PM PDT by bad company (What's the font kenneth?)
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To: sola_fide

bttt


48 posted on 09/24/2004 9:02:28 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: P H Lewis
Of course, as we learn more about the structure and function of the brain, perhaps we will learn that liberals and conservatives are indeed born and not made, but I have a gut feeling the odds are against it.

My gut feeling is that the odds are for it. Leftists have predominated in education for a very long time, and yet half the population ends up 'conservative' anyway.

Thomas Sowell's A Conflict of Visions and The Vision of the Anointed do a good job of reducing "liberal" and "conservative" views to a very small set of fundamental assumptions about how the world works. Sowell explains, for example, why if you find someone opposed to nuclear power, that person is probably also pro-abortion, in favor of affirmative action, and so on, right down the liberal line. These issues don't seem related, but Sowell shows how they are.

One of my fundamental assumptions about how the world works is that Nature likes systems that wobble around a mean. The world is full of them. Such systems don't seek the mean and stay there; the wobbling is part of the system, designed to shake things up and foment continuous change and experimentation.

My hunch is that Sowell's "constrained" and "unconstrained" visions will someday be shown to be inherent, and like sex, distributed roughly 50-50 in the population. This creates the system that we see: one where neither liberals nor conservatives ever "win the final battle." It's a system that continuously battles around a mean, with no finality to any of it. Nature doesn't want finality. It wants to keep the game going.


49 posted on 09/24/2004 10:23:52 PM PDT by Nick Danger (www.swiftvets.com www.wintersoldier.com www.kerrylied.com)
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To: Nick Danger

" My hunch is that Sowell's "constrained" and "unconstrained" visions will someday be shown to be inherent, and like sex, distributed roughly 50-50 in the population. "

In the chromosomes?


50 posted on 09/24/2004 10:26:04 PM PDT by Fatalis
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