Russia moves to ratify Kyoto Protocol

Boston Globe ^ | September 24, 2004 | Kim Murphy, Los Angeles Times

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Putin readies measure on global warming for a vote in parliament

MOSCOW -- Key ministries of the Russian government began the process of ratifying the Kyoto Protocol yesterday, signaling that President Vladimir V. Putin is preparing to put the landmark global-warming treaty to a vote in parliament.

After weeks of behind-the-scenes meetings aimed at weighing costs and benefits, including Russia's possible admission later this year into the World Trade Organization, Putin directed his Cabinet ministers to ''sign as soon as possible" the draft ratification documents, the first step toward allowing Russia to join the 1997 accord.

The Ministry of Natural Resources approved the documents yesterday, but the Economic Development and Trade Ministry called for more scrutiny of the pact's economic consequences, signaling a possible fight before ratification could occur. Still, environmental activists said they hoped the issue could be presented to the Russian Parliament within the next several weeks.

Russia's participation is a crucial step toward implementation of the protocol, which requires participating industrialized countries to cut their emissions of greenhouse gases, blamed for what many scientists believe could be a precipitous change in global climate.

The protocol, which cannot take effect unless Russia signs, aims to reduce greenhouse gases to 5.2 percent below 1990 levels by 2012.

Analysts cautioned that Russia's ratification would not be certain until the final package cleared the parliament and was presented to Putin for signature, a warning that reflected the deep divisions that persist within Russia over the benefits of instituting the treaty.

[dfwgator]

Just say "nyet."

[Cincinatus' Wife]

They should but Putin is off the reservation.

[MegaSilver]

PING

The world 4 A.C. (After Clinton).

[BookaT]

I dont know a lot but I am thinking they can't be running clean enough to meet standards

[A CA Guy]

Russia wouldn't honor what they sign, so why not expect them to sign?

[Always Right]

I dont know a lot but I am thinking they can't be running clean enough to meet standards

Kyoto has nothing to do with clean. CO2 is not a pollutant, but a life substaining part of our air.

[keysguy]

You read my mind, these guys could sign anything and it wouldn't mean diddly.

[Getsmart64]

Why is Putin caring about Kyoto right now??? Doesn't he have some terrorists to go kill???

[Frank_Discussion]

Think about who has an opposite stance on Kyoto. That will provide an answer, methinks.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Kyoto is about putting the screws to the U.S. and giving passes to developing countries.

[kaylar]

He's decided that an antiUS alliance with the EU is the best bet for Russia. :-( This is Very Bad News...IIRC, once they reach their magic 55% with Russia's signature, the Kyoto Treaty becomes part of international law ,and all nonexempt nations (Exempt : India, China eg) can be subjected to financial penalties to force ratification and compliance. Given all GWB's had to do to try to defend our national sovereignty from the ICC (which we also have not ratified) , I'd say it's a given that sooner or later we will see an embargo against the US in the name of this treaty. I honestly believe the EU and the rest of the world would happily see a worldwide megadepression, if that's the price that must be paid to destroy US sovereignty.

[A CA Guy]

We are in fact about the only good industrial GREEN country.

Meaning, we have functional filters on smoke stacks, cars, good filtration in water where the rest of the world does not.

The only ones who can claim to be better at this than us are those who have no industry (MAYBE).

If alternative forms of energy come about to replace oil that are clean, then this treaty would be of no consequence, but as long as we need oil, we can't sign this treaty which is a restriction on success.

Let the rest of the world implement the good filters we have on everything first and then MAYBE we can consider any treaty.

Right now, this treaty and this world tax for starvation treaty is BS.

[joebuck]

"I'd say it's a given that sooner or later we will see an embargo against the US in the name of this treaty."

They have more to lose from such an embargo than we do. Embargos work both ways.

[Publius6961]

and all nonexempt nations (Exempt : India, China eg) can be subjected to financial penalties to force ratification and compliance.

How exactly? Please be thourough in your explanation. Omit no details.

There is this fundamental problem I have had since childhood with the concept of "international law" defined by the helpless delusionals.

[Shermy]

Chirac and the natural gas interests must have offered a lot.

The Russian politicos aren't getting their "oil vouchers" any more from Saddam, maybe some new sources?

[alex]

Madness of King Vlad

[ckilmer]

this may have something to do with the announcment on Monday by scientists in Antartica of the acceleration of the breakup of the glaciers there.

[keysguy]

More eco/feel-good stuff from the lib/rats. You can bet if we ever did sign up there would be a new one that was even more demanding five years later, makes you wonder if it's not just a big power play.

[No Longer Free State]

Why is Putin caring about Kyoto right now??? Doesn't he have some terrorists to go kill???

He needs money to do that. He probably figures he'll get more loans to default on out of the World Bank and other Kyoto signatories if he disses us publicly. And, he's probably right.

[keysguy]

You don't think Rasputin has become a KGB environmentalist over night?

[trebb]

Hmm... Boston Globe story. Suuure they will "ratify" it. They will vote it down and be done with it.

[Sprite518]

India and China has 2/5 of the World's population, and they are financially exempt. Hmmm.... LOL! This treaty is a joke. It focuses only on the USA alone. which is 20% of the issue. So let me put it to you this way. If you had a problem would you only focus on 20% of it, and leave the other 80% AS IS. No wonder why this thing about it being shot down in the Senate 97-0 back when Clinton was in office.

Europe is still very unstable. All we have to do is leave the Bulkins, and Europe will implode into a huge war. That is the reason why we were sent their in the first place. Serbia is skilled enough to kick the snot out of most of those countries over their.

[pepperdog]

Ratifying it and living by the rules are two distinctly different things.

[Fast1]

India and China are the Polluters and they get a free ride screw them.

[Seadog Bytes]

...and you thought the "cold war" was over...

Evidently, Putin is a closet algore fan.

Eco-idiot ping

[kaylar]

Tariffs. The same thing the EU is always at least threatening to levy on us when the WTO rules against us. I've read pretty much every article on Kyoto posted to FR and elsewhere that I've run across, and I assure you that various EU politicos and bureaucrats and NGO wonks have ALREADY threatened to levy punitive tariffs on the USA just as soon as Kyoto becomes part of international law, in the name of 'fairness' (since their industries are supposedly hurt so terribly by measures taken to ensure Kyoto compliance-actually, they're already in compliance because the reduction target levels were set for the year BEFORE the worst east european factories were shut down).And not just fairness, of course-to try to force us to ratify.

Yes, they would be terribly hurt by this-the whole world would probably enter a global megadepression, including China and India. I honestly think they may not care-that they are obsessed with destroying US sovereignty as the sole obstacle to the global governance led by the UN, which the EU thinks it can control via its de facto alliance with the Third World. They may actually believe any price is worth paying, so long as the US is no longer the One Superpower at the end. And of course, they believe the EU will become the Great Economic Power by default if Kyoto kills the US economy-they may be WRONG to believe that, but that seems to be the belief.

If not tariffs and fines, you can expect them at least to try to blackmail us at every turn with,"If you'd only sign Kyoto, we'd-" Look at how that POS Chirac is openly speculating that if JFK wins, Kyoto , the ICC, and God knows what else will be "back on the table."

One other thing : I seem to recall that if Kyoto DOES become part of international law, it will be administered by the UN GA.Now there's a horrible thought...But that may be one measure to the protocol that was removed in what critics called "watering Kyoto down."

[hchutch]

A thread from July:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1169510/posts

A lot of mixed signals, it seems. But can the EU really try to force us to go along, when the Senate unanimously REFUSED to ratify the treaty?

[keysguy]

"And ever since I invented the internet....

[reformedliberal]

Can you explain the carbon credits/arbitrage aspect of this? IIRC, this is going to generate billions in trading carbon credits.

Russia has vast tracks of forest, which is the basis (again, IIRC) for their allotment of credits from their carbon sinks. But, we have these, as well.

I do expect the bar to be raised as the appetite for the money this is going to create increases, as it will.

[jimt]

Our recent treatment of Russia with regard to Chechens, handling of terror, etc. might have something to do with this.

[kaylar]

To be honest, that's not an aspect I'd really considered much : The antiUS/antisovereignty issues were what most struck me. I've heard that some corporations here in the US are hoping to 'cash in' on emissions trading when Kyoto takes effect. There was a very strange article posted to FR awhile back, about some northeastern state's governors traveling to Canada , to try to interfere with Canada's Kyoto debate. IIRC, they tried to go around the US state department and sign up with Canada-as if they represent independent countries-and some Kyoto compliance measures being discussed there! No link-didn't bookmark-maybe someone else will post it.

The threats of financial actions against the US were muted prior to the Australian Kyoto debate. At that point, the threats started becoming blatant-I guess they assumed at that point that Kyoto was bound to become international law sooner or later, so they could be more open about their goals and intents.

I really hoped the US and Russia could become allies. Looks like they've decided to try to rebuild fences with China and ally with the EU instead. :-( What (if anything) they plan to do about Islamic terrorism remains to be seen.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

He reacted awfully harshly on that.

He's taking heat but he's running the show so this was going to come sooner or later.

[finnigan2]

This is not a good sign. To me, it signals that Putin has managed to gain more and more power to the point where he feels free to enter into agreements for political advantage with the EU, without fear that his own country's continued non compliance will ever be made an issue. Look at his actions following the massacre of the Russian school children. He blamed the US and moved immediately to increase his legislative authority to deal with the "crisis". This is exactly how Stalin maneuvered to assume complete control of the state after Lenin's death. Bush continues to try and portray Putin as an ally, but I think he knows that Putin is, if anything, only a fair weather friend of the US.

[finnigan2]

This is not a good sign. To me, it signals that Putin has managed to gain more and more power to the point where he feels free to enter into agreements for political advantage with the EU, without fear that his own country's continued non compliance will ever be made an issue. Look at his actions following the massacre of the Russian school children. He blamed the US and moved immediately to increase his legislative authority to deal with the "crisis". This is exactly how Stalin maneuvered to assume complete control of the state after Lenin's death. Bush continues to try and portray Putin as an ally, but I think he knows that Putin is, if anything, only a fair weather friend of the US.

[farmfriend]

Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.

[farmfriend]

My frustration grows every day.

[Carry_Okie]

I dont know a lot but I am thinking they can't be running clean enough to meet standards.

They'll cheat, just like the Europeons do with the Maastricht budget controls. This move is aimed squarely at us.

[A CA Guy]

Yep, I think everything is a power play to restrict and lower our strength as a country and producer.

[Nowhere Man]

Russia wouldn't honor what they sign, so why not expect them to sign?</>

Chuck's (my first name) Law #1 - "Treaties are made to be broken."

Maybe that is my cynical side showing but like speed limits, treaties are meant to be broken. Everyone cheats on them and to me, they are a waste of time and paper. Even if every nations signs Kyoto, it's worthless anyhoo and many will break it. Of course, I'm still against signing such a thing, I mean there are chumps out there like Algore and FrankeKerry the Spitball that would follow it or try to at our expense, but when the day is done and them oney counted, Kyoto, like all other treaties are only good for tolietp aper if that. The bad side is that these chumps will make us pay for it.

[Nowhere Man]

Oops, should take out the italics. B-) </I>

[Nowhere Man]

One other thing about all of this I learned from the Playstation game "Roadrash Jailbreak" one of my favorite games: "Laws are the spider webs through which the big bugs fly past and the little ones get caught."

Treaties are the same way and with Kyoto, we "little bugs" will pay.

[A CA Guy]

I agree with you, but it seems while Russia would be allowed to get away with murder, the United States would be held to the actual treaty and every blemish by the United States would be screamed of from mountain tops while other nations will receive no scrutiny.

[Nowhere Man]

I agree with you, but it seems while Russia would be allowed to get away with murder, the United States would be held to the actual treaty and every blemish by the United States would be screamed of from mountain tops while other nations will receive no scrutiny.

Unfortunatly, that's true and the worst part is that many of those screaming the loudest would be the lefty, FrankenKerry voter, Michael Moore types we have here in the good, old USA.

[Libertina]

Putin must think they'll get money "pay back" from the UN. He's probably correct. Any guess on the "bribe" amount for this?

[sergeantdave]

Sign it Putin, you SOB, and expect no help or sympathy from me when the terrorists start blowing Moscow to pieces.

[ApesForEvolution]

We all have more conclusive proof that we've been duped by the Communists we supposedly bankrupted. Never trust a Communist, and require a lot of 'reformed' miles to be examined before taking a 'reformed' or 'former' Communist seriously. In fact, watch those even closer. Having seen the USSR's Communist 'playbook' and studied it, I'm convinced we've been had. Watch the Russian/Chinese Communists very, very closely and start the process of untangling ourselves from them. They always have and always will be (in our lives) the head of the World Terror Serpetn...

[ApesForEvolution]

Kyoto is about putting the screws to the U.S. and giving passes to developing countries.


>>>


Yup. Just another Communist ploy to tie us up and slit our throats. Friggin aholes.

[ApesForEvolution]

Serpent (ok, I'll give spell checker another try...lol)