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Zapatero: Catholics Out, Islam In
Little Green Footballs ^ | 09/25/04 | Isambard Wilkinson in Madrid

Posted on 09/25/2004 7:38:56 AM PDT by JesseJane

The Spanish appeasement government of Zapatero is now planning to drastically cut ties with the Roman Catholic Church, slashing current funding in half: Funding for Church to be slashed by Spanish. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/25/wspain25.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/09/25/ixworld.html)

The Spanish government sparked a furious row yesterday after it emerged that it had drawn up a timetable to halve state funding of the Roman Catholic Church and to ban crucifixes from public buildings.

The Socialist government has already pedged to confront the Church ideologically and fiscally and to transform Spain into a fully secular society by scrapping the Church’s “privileged position in society”.

The newspaper El Mundo reported yesterday that the government has now drawn up a timetable to break the bonds, removing any lingering hopes that it might reach an accommodation.

The government plans to put an end to the arrangement whereby Spaniards can offer a percentage of their taxes to the Church. This arrangement contributes £54 million a year to Church funds.

This might be defensible as a move toward US-style separation of church and state—except that Zapatero is simultaneously planning to vastly increase state funding for Islam:

Further enraging conservatives, the government has drawn up plans to finance the teaching of Islam in state-run schools and to give funds to mosques on the grounds that it will create greater understanding of the country’s one million Muslims.

Although Spain has been a Catholic country since the expulsion of the Moors in 1492 is has also long had a tradition of anti-clericalism that flared violently during the civil war. The old saying was that “a Spaniard is always behind a priest, either with a candle or a stake.”

The Zapateristas seem intent on systematically dismantling Spanish society.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: appeasement; catholicchurch; catholics; churchandstate; cross; education; europe; islam; moors; politics; purge; religion; schools; socialist; spain; zapatero
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Fools.
1 posted on 09/25/2004 7:38:57 AM PDT by JesseJane
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To: JesseJane
So.....what's the method for recall of a Spanish President?

It appears this image of mine (made after Zappy's Al Quaeda-backed coup) was strangely prescient:

2 posted on 09/25/2004 7:41:51 AM PDT by atomicpossum (If there are two Americas, John Edwards isn't qualified to lead either of them.©)
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To: JesseJane
This might be defensible as a move toward US-style separation of church and state—
except that Zapatero is simultaneously planning to vastly increase state funding for Islam:


I just hope Dubya and his planners think over their "faith-based" system
of fundings...so we don't end up playing Cat Stevens (funding Islamic terrorism "charities").
3 posted on 09/25/2004 7:42:06 AM PDT by VOA
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To: JesseJane

Islam is the greatest force for evil in the world today. It is amazing that a Western government would consider funding it. This is yet another act of appeasement by the Spanish government.


4 posted on 09/25/2004 7:44:17 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo ("Armed with what? Spitballs?")
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To: atomicpossum


5 posted on 09/25/2004 7:45:07 AM PDT by Incorrigible (immanentizing the eschaton)
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To: JesseJane
Local radio here in JAX had Craig Winn, author of "Prophet Of Doom", on last night.

The more I learn about Islam and it's rise through out history, the more I understand it's a cult of death.

6 posted on 09/25/2004 7:45:38 AM PDT by OXENinFLA (John Kerry: Giving aid and comfort to the enemies of the US since 1970.)
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To: JesseJane

Nutcases.


7 posted on 09/25/2004 7:46:09 AM PDT by KantianBurke (Am back but just for a short while)
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To: JesseJane

IDIOTS--it's all over folks except for the US,Israel,Australia,and maybe G britain


8 posted on 09/25/2004 7:46:37 AM PDT by rang1995
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To: JesseJane
The Zapateristas seem intent on systematically dismantling Spanish society.

No doubt they are.

This is exactly what the Catholic Church needed: marytrdom. Now THEY are the "underdogs," persecuted and on the run. The Church functions very well in that capacity. Lol. THAT'S how they got started. Pharisees, Romans....Zapatistas. Nothing changes.

Questions:
1. The Zapatistas are named after Zapata. Is that the same Emiliano Zapata from Mexican history? Senor Revolution? (Pretend all tildes and accents are in place.)

2. Are these Zapatistas hand-in-glove with those Muslims who want to reclaim Spain for the Arabs and Islam?

9 posted on 09/25/2004 7:46:59 AM PDT by starfish923
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To: JesseJane

More proof that we get the government we deserve.


10 posted on 09/25/2004 7:48:50 AM PDT by jmaroneps37 ( Kerry's not "one of us": catholicsagainstkerry.com. needs your help.)
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To: atomicpossum

I haven't any idea. The Socialists have made a beeeg mistake for the sake of socialism. I try to keep in mind they and Aznar's government was with us, and they did have some level of support. I hope those people fight.. but if they will not.. so be it. If they try to 'nuance' them, when the Islamists step up their demands, you know what's going to happen already. They will use terror to get their way... no matter what.


11 posted on 09/25/2004 7:48:55 AM PDT by JesseJane ( “fake but accurate” ... it’s like saying a body in a pine box is “dead but lifelike.” -- Lileks)
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To: JesseJane

It appears Mr Zapatera plans to turn the country back over to the Moors. This is exactly what appeasement policies will get you. And this is the same road Kerry would take us down .. appease .. appease .. appease. There is a big lesson in here.

This is an amazing story because Spain is the mother of the church. Spain did more to spread Catholicism than any other country in the world. I cannot imagine that the people would allow this.

Of course this was an easy decision to reach because the Catholics are not bombing their trains or threatening the masses. If they want to become secular that is one thing. But to start teaching Islam in the schools and building their mosques? Unimaginable! We could see a civil war over there.

In my mind .. the significance of this story to the Catholic Church and to Spain is HUGE !!!



12 posted on 09/25/2004 7:49:49 AM PDT by CometBaby (You can twist perceptions .. reality won't budge!)
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To: JesseJane

This could happen here under a Kerry presidency. Join us
at catholicsainstkerry.com.
We're fighting to make sure this never happens.
We need your help. - NOW!


13 posted on 09/25/2004 7:51:41 AM PDT by jmaroneps37 ( Kerry's not "one of us": catholicsagainstkerry.com. needs your help.)
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To: VOA

So to I.

The anti-semitism from the ACLU needs to be stopped.. In fact, that organization needs to be shut down. I'm not sure if there has been a battle between them and the Muslim community yet or not. I remember something a while back about the 'call to prayer' in Michigan I think... and I thought that was outrageous.. Local communities have to put up with that screetching 5 times a day, but yet, the noon churhbell can not ring.. We've let ACLU get away with ripping our country apart for too long, and we all are going to have to dig deep and fight back hard... We need politicians who don't cow everytime they hear the word lawsuit, and we need judges who will back up the constitution.


14 posted on 09/25/2004 7:52:02 AM PDT by JesseJane ( “fake but accurate” ... it’s like saying a body in a pine box is “dead but lifelike.” -- Lileks)
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To: Incorrigible

Haaaaaaaaaa!!

Have they ever been seen together??


15 posted on 09/25/2004 7:52:32 AM PDT by JesseJane ( “fake but accurate” ... it’s like saying a body in a pine box is “dead but lifelike.” -- Lileks)
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To: OXENinFLA

I know what you mean.

The media (ha) needs to spend more time laying the facts out there for people to see who and what we are fighting.. I know some Muslims are said to be speaking out about this, but, hey.... I don't see it. Tells me, they are afraid to speak out, because, it is exactly..the cult of death.. if you do not toe the line, you are dead meat.


16 posted on 09/25/2004 7:55:05 AM PDT by JesseJane ( “fake but accurate” ... it’s like saying a body in a pine box is “dead but lifelike.” -- Lileks)
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To: jmaroneps37

Exactly.

John Kerry's attack on Allawi yesterday was a slap in the face to the Jewish community as well. I hope that community sees that.


17 posted on 09/25/2004 7:56:45 AM PDT by JesseJane ( “fake but accurate” ... it’s like saying a body in a pine box is “dead but lifelike.” -- Lileks)
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To: JesseJane
Time to rediscover the bones of St. James.

 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/22/wstat22.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/22/ixworld.html

Public outcry forces church to keep Moor Slayer's statue
By Isambard Wilkinson in Madrid
(Filed: 22/07/2004)

St James the Moor Slayer, Spain's patron saint, has notched up another victory.

Church officials have been forced to overturn a decision to remove a statue of the saint from the cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in north-west Spain.

 
 
The controversial statue of St James in the cathedral of Santiago de Compostela

The statue, an 18th-century work by Jose Gambino which depicts St James on a white charger hacking off the heads of Moors beneath his rampant mount's hooves, was deemed to be offensive to Muslims.

However a spokesman for the church, which is Christendom's third holiest site after Rome and Jerusalem and attracts half a million pilgrims each year, said yesterday that, due to public anger over the proposed move, the statue will now remain in place.

"It is still here on the same spot. It is not going anywhere," a spokesman for Alejandro Barral, the president of the cathedral's art commission, said. "We have decided that the statue of St James will stay in the cathedral. There is no reason why it should be removed in the near future. For the moment the debate over its future has been suspended."

The Spanish press reported that terrorist bomb attacks on Madrid trains in March had precipitated the withdrawal of the statue.

The Spanish national newspaper, El Mundo, said: "According to our sources the authorities fear that the image could attract the anger of the Arab world in a period of high tension."

The plan was to put the statue in a museum and replace it with a less provocative effigy, one of St James the Pilgrim.

The decision outraged Roman Catholics. One newspaper commentator dubbed it "political correctness gone mad". People gathered in strength to place flowers at the foot of the statue and newspapers published letters of complaint condemning the "intolerable heresy".

The announcement of the withdrawal was welcomed by the Muslim community as a "step towards peace" according to Houssam El Mahmoudi, the president of the Association of Moroccan Students in Santiago.

St James, who was described by Cervantes' Don Quixote as "the most valiant", still exerts a strong hold on the Spanish popular imagination.

Spanish troops deployed to Iraq were issued with a special badge depicting the Moor Slayer's red cross. Santiago Matamoros, as he is known in Spanish, was the brother of St John the evangelist. He was beheaded in AD44 in Palestine after the King of Judea, Herod Agrippa, sentenced him to death, making him the first apostle to be martyred.

According to tradition his body floated in its sarcophagus to the lands where he had been a missionary and was buried in the westernmost part of the peninsula near Santiago de Compostela.

St James, of whom bloodthirsty statues abound throughout Spain, has been a figure of veneration since he appeared on a white cloud at the battle of Clavijo in 844 and spurred Spanish soldiers on to victory against the Moors.

On Sunday, in a ceremony that will resound with ancient symbolism, King Juan Carlos will pay homage to the Moor Slayer on his saint day by making the annual National Offering at Santiago.

The dictator Gen Francisco Franco once sent his only Moroccan general, Mohamed ben Miziam del Qasim, to make the offering. Sensitive officials covered the base of the statue with cloth to hide the decapitated heads of his compatriots.

 

18 posted on 09/25/2004 7:56:45 AM PDT by Incorrigible (immanentizing the eschaton)
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To: Thane_Banquo

Totally agree..

They are planting flowers in their own graveyard. (Metaphorically speaking)


19 posted on 09/25/2004 7:57:38 AM PDT by JesseJane ( “fake but accurate” ... it’s like saying a body in a pine box is “dead but lifelike.” -- Lileks)
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To: JesseJane
It's not only the Islamists who are doing Christianity.

"There is something missing in Redlands, California. It is missing from the doors of the local government buildings. It has been covered over with masking tape on the sides of government vehicles, drilled out of fireman's badges, and colored over with magic marker on official city patches. It is the cross; a symbol that the ACLU says is so offensive, it must be removed from the city seal. And the ACLU threatened to sue Redlands unless the city government voted it off the city seal."

20 posted on 09/25/2004 7:57:53 AM PDT by ex-snook ("BUT ABOVE ALL THINGS, TRUTH BEARETH AWAY THE VICTORY")
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To: Incorrigible
The decision outraged Roman Catholics. One newspaper commentator dubbed it "political correctness gone mad". People gathered in strength to place flowers at the foot of the statue and newspapers published letters of complaint condemning the "intolerable heresy". The announcement of the withdrawal was welcomed by the Muslim community as a "step towards peace" according to Houssam El Mahmoudi, the president of the Association of Moroccan Students in Santiago.
:( .........
21 posted on 09/25/2004 7:59:27 AM PDT by JesseJane ( “fake but accurate” ... it’s like saying a body in a pine box is “dead but lifelike.” -- Lileks)
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To: ex-snook

I read about that too.. Our communities need to stand up and start removing politicians by recall if necessary to stand and protect the constitution. The ACLU has got to be purged of it's communists and anti-semites.. or shut down entirely. It's long lost it's purpose.. In fact, it's sort of like a terrorist organization that threatens lawsuit after lawsuit to bankrupt a community if necessary to get it's way.. and finds a willing 'judge' to help. It's gotta stop.


22 posted on 09/25/2004 8:01:50 AM PDT by JesseJane ( “fake but accurate” ... it’s like saying a body in a pine box is “dead but lifelike.” -- Lileks)
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To: JesseJane

He would reaaaly hate the courtrooms in Greece. In each courtroom is a picture of Christ and a cross and a bible.


23 posted on 09/25/2004 8:02:33 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! NOV 2, 2004 is VETERANS DAY! VOTE!)
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To: JesseJane
I hope those people fight

From talking to my brother and dad... I doubt it. Over all, people in Spain are sorry for their blunder, but unwilling to do anything about it. Maybe it's the 40 years of repression under Franco that taught them not to speak out. Maybe it's Islam itself... some scholars believe it to be the apostate religion spoken about in the book of Revelation. Either way, they are toast and I'm glad that I cut my ties to Spain years ago. I even find it hard to feel sorry for my relatives over there, considering the nonsense I hear over the phone. Franco used to call Spain "the spiritual reserve of the West"... what a joke!

24 posted on 09/25/2004 8:03:16 AM PDT by Former Fetus (aren't we all?)
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To: JesseJane
The Socialist government has already pedged to confront the Church ideologically and fiscally and to transform Spain into a fully secular society by scrapping the Church’s “privileged position in society”.

Looks like the commies have never given up in Spain.
25 posted on 09/25/2004 8:03:52 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: CometBaby
In my mind .. the significance of this story to the Catholic Church and to Spain is HUGE !!!

=====

I totally agree, but will we hear this story in OUR MEDIA?? Doubtful. Pass the word.

26 posted on 09/25/2004 8:04:09 AM PDT by JesseJane ( “fake but accurate” ... it’s like saying a body in a pine box is “dead but lifelike.” -- Lileks)
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To: JesseJane

El CID shall rise again!

DEATH TO THE MOSLEM HOARDE!


27 posted on 09/25/2004 8:05:34 AM PDT by steplock
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To: JesseJane

Francisco Franco is spinning in his grave.....but he is still dead.


28 posted on 09/25/2004 8:06:49 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (DEMS STILL LIE like yellow dogs.)
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To: Incorrigible
authorities fear that the image could attract the anger of the Arab world

I will never understand those who think capitulation to intimidation is a good policy. What is that going to accomplish other than an increase in the level and breadth of intimidation?

29 posted on 09/25/2004 8:07:20 AM PDT by tdadams ('Unfit for Command' is full of lies... it quotes John Kerry)
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To: starfish923
This is exactly what the Catholic Church needed: marytrdom. Now THEY are the "underdogs," persecuted and on the run. The Church functions very well in that capacity. Lol. THAT'S how they got started. Pharisees, Romans....Zapatistas. Nothing changes.

You see this as an opportunity to display your personal bias against Catholics?

As to your question about Zapatistas. I believe you are correct. The Zapatistas in Spain are an importation from the revolutionaires in Mexico. The Communist party is pretty much represented by the Zapatistas.

30 posted on 09/25/2004 8:08:11 AM PDT by CometBaby (You can twist perceptions .. reality won't budge!)
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To: miltonim

Ping!


31 posted on 09/25/2004 8:09:26 AM PDT by happygrl
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To: NYer

Your ping list may want to look at this too.


32 posted on 09/25/2004 8:10:53 AM PDT by happygrl
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To: Former Fetus

How sad.. Perhaps some of your relatives may decide at some point to immigrate.


33 posted on 09/25/2004 8:11:27 AM PDT by JesseJane ( “fake but accurate” ... it’s like saying a body in a pine box is “dead but lifelike.” -- Lileks)
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To: JesseJane

You are right; Spain is majority, traditionally, RC. There will either be a "moving" out of Spain of traditional RC; or some fascinating events -- which of course the squelching biased, censorious MSM will not report.


34 posted on 09/25/2004 8:12:13 AM PDT by Alia
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To: Former Fetus

Your post #24, bet my scummy relatives still in germany are worse than yours in spain!


35 posted on 09/25/2004 8:12:18 AM PDT by rrrod
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To: atomicpossum
Why are you insulting Mr. Bean ?

He may look like Zapatero, but he's not diabolical.

NOTHING about this is funny.

36 posted on 09/25/2004 8:12:55 AM PDT by happygrl
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To: JesseJane

you'd think that he'd read some post-roman history of the iberian peninsula.


37 posted on 09/25/2004 8:13:46 AM PDT by ken21 (require econ in hi skools + the democrat party wd evaporate)
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To: VOA
I just hope Dubya and his planners think over their "faith-based" system of fundings...so we don't end up playing Cat Stevens (funding Islamic terrorism "charities").

I have been opposed to this for the same reason.

I also saw what a racket the Scientologists run in California, and know that other cults would love to get their hands on public money.

38 posted on 09/25/2004 8:14:38 AM PDT by happygrl
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To: NYer

Catholic Ping!


39 posted on 09/25/2004 8:15:56 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: JesseJane
Additional comments at: Funding for Church to be slashed by Spanish
40 posted on 09/25/2004 8:16:40 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: CometBaby

I guess Spain started down this road when they stopped having babies. They will cut their numbers in half each generation with a birthrate of 1.1-1.2 children per woman. If the Muslims there are having 4 children per woman (just a guess) it probably means Spanish women are have a birth rate of less than one.

And NOTHING else they do matters if they don't have babies.


41 posted on 09/25/2004 8:16:48 AM PDT by heartwood
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To: heartwood

'are have' = 'have'. I knew I shouldn't check that box.


42 posted on 09/25/2004 8:17:38 AM PDT by heartwood
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To: JesseJane

We need to quit handing out countries over to the Muslims. They will take as much as they think they can get and every capitulation only makes them bolder.

They can choose to immigrate to western cultures, but they must be the ones who adopt to western culture, not the other way around. If they are not comfortable with our society, their option is to leave. They don't belong here in that case.


43 posted on 09/25/2004 8:18:23 AM PDT by tdadams ('Unfit for Command' is full of lies... it quotes John Kerry)
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To: Incorrigible
Don't forget the photo:


44 posted on 09/25/2004 8:20:15 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (Kerry lied while courageous veterans died.)
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To: livius
Are you still on the forum ?

What sdo you hear from your friends in Spain?

45 posted on 09/25/2004 8:20:41 AM PDT by happygrl
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To: JesseJane
...Zapatero is now planning to drastically cut ties with the Roman Catholic Church...

The commissars are now in full control of the Spanish Central Government. The only difference today is that there is no U.S.S.R. Politburo to back them up. They must rely on Papa Fidel and their new friend in Venezuela.

No more trips to Spain!

46 posted on 09/25/2004 8:21:05 AM PDT by JesseHousman (Execute Mumia Abu-Jamal)
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To: tdadams
They don't belong here in that case.

They don't belong here in ANY case.

47 posted on 09/25/2004 8:22:09 AM PDT by JesseHousman (Execute Mumia Abu-Jamal)
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To: CometBaby; starfish923
You see this as an opportunity to display your personal bias against Catholics?

If I may, I don't think this was intended as bias, but as truth.

The early church writings are quite clear in their idea that persecution brought faith, and the evidence of faith led to the conversion of many souls.

The Christian Faith in Europe needs a jump-start: this may do it.

48 posted on 09/25/2004 8:26:20 AM PDT by happygrl
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To: JesseHousman

I don't have any problem with immigrants of any stripe, as long as immerse themselves in the spirit and customs of their adopted land, and of course immigrate legally.

The problem is, most Muslims, most immigrants in general these day, do not want to do that. They want to come to America or Europe and demand that the people there accommodate them and adapt to their culture and beliefs.

Hell no. If you make the decision to leave your country behind and come to a new land, as a consequence it is incombent upon you to live within the norms and beliefs of your adopted land. Don't work to make the new land just like your old land. Why did you leave in the first place?


49 posted on 09/25/2004 8:27:17 AM PDT by tdadams ('Unfit for Command' is full of lies... it quotes John Kerry)
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To: happygrl
Why are you insulting Mr. Bean ?

He may look like Zapatero, but he's not diabolical.

NOTHING about this is funny.

If you're talking about post #3, that's not the one you replied to.

The picture in my post, #2, IS Zapotero, and is not meant to be funny.

50 posted on 09/25/2004 8:28:08 AM PDT by atomicpossum (If there are two Americas, John Edwards isn't qualified to lead either of them.©)
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