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Winter ^ | 09/25/04 |

Posted on 09/25/2004 4:57:31 PM PDT by RaceBannon

I was surprised to see the following:

John Kerry created a 7 point plan for Iraq, right?

Does everyone know John Kerry has a 7 Point Plan he and the VVAW dreamt up for VIETNAM, TOO?

TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 7; binh; iraq; kerry; kerryiraq; point; vietnam
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Peace Proposal of the Provisional Revolutionary Government of the Republic of South Viet Nam, July 1, 1971 1. Regarding the deadline for the total withdrawal of U.S. forces.

The U.S. Government must put an end to its war of aggression in Viet Nam, stop its policy of "Vietnamization" of the war, withdraw from South Viet Nam all troops, military personnel, weapons, and war materials of the United States and of the other foreign countries in the U.S. camp, and dismantle all U.S. bases in South Viet Nam, without posing any condition whatsoever.

The U.S. Government must set a terminal date for the withdrawal from South Viet Nam of the totality of U.S. forces and those of the other foreign countries in the U.S. camps.

If the U.S. Government sets a terminal date for the withdrawal from South Viet Nam in 1971 of the totality of U.S. forces and those of the other foreign countries in the U.S. camp, the parties will at the same time agree on the modalities:

A) Of the withdrawal in safety from South Viet Nam of the totality of U.S. forces and those of the other foreign countries in the U.S. camp. B) Of the release of the totality of militarymen of all parties and of the civilians captured in the war (including American pilots captured in North Viet Nam) so that they may all rapidly return to their homes.

These two operations will begin on the same date and will end on the same date:

A cease-fire will be observed between the South Viet Nam People's Liberation Armed Forces and the armed forces of the United States and of the other foreign countries in the U.S. camp as soon as the parties reach agreement on the withdrawal from South Viet Nam of the totality of U.S. forces and those of the other foreign countries in the U.S. camps.

2. Regarding the questions of power in South Viet Nam.

The U.S. Government must really respect the South Viet Nam people's right to self-determination, put an end to its interference in the internal affairs of South Viet Nam, cease backing the bellicose group headed by Nguyen Van Thieu at present in office in Saigon, and stop all maneuvers, including tricks on elections, aimed at maintaining the puppet Nguyen Van Thieu.

The political, social and religious forces in South Viet Nam aspiring to peace and national concord will use various means to form in Saigon a new administration favoring peace, independence, neutrality and democracy. The Provisional Revolutionary Government of the Republic of South Viet Nam will immediately enter into talks with the administration in order to settle the following questions:

A) To form a broad three-segment government of national concord that will assume its functions during the period between the restoration of peace and the holding of general elections and organize general election in South Viet Nam. A cease-fire will be observed between the South Viet Nam People's Liberation Armed Forces and the armed forces of the Saigon Administration as soon as a government of national concord is formed. B) To take concrete measures with the required guarantees so as to prohibit all acts of terror, reprisal, and discrimination against persons having collaborated with one or the other party, to ensure every democratic liberty to the South Viet Nam people, to release all persons jailed for political reasons, to dissolve all concentration camps and to liquidate all forms of constraint and coercion so as to permit the people to return to their native places in complete freedom and to freely engage in their occupations.

C) To see that the people's living conditions are stabilized and gradually improve, to create conditions allowing everyone to contribute his talents and efforts to heal the war wounds and rebuild the country.

D)To agree on measures to be taken to ensure the holding of genuinely free, democratic and fair general elections in South Viet Nam.

3. Regarding the questions of Vietnamese armed forces in South Viet Nam.

The Vietnamese parties will together settle the question of Vietnamese armed forces in South Viet Nam in a spirit of national concord, equality and mutual respect, without foreign interference, in accordance with the post-war situation and with a view to lightening the people's contribution.

4.Regarding the peaceful reunification of Viet Nam and the relations between the north and south zones.

A) The reunification of Viet Nam will be achieved step by step, by peaceful means, on the basis of discussions and agreements between the two zones, without constraint and annexation from either party, without foreign interference. Pending the reunification of the country, the north and the south zones will re-establish normal relations, guarantee free movement, free correspondence, free choice of residence and maintain economic and cultural relations on the principle of mutual interests and mutual assistance. All questions concerning the two zones will be settled by qualified representatives of the Vietnamese people in the two zones on the basis of negotiations, without foreign interference. B) In keeping with the provisions of the 1954 Geneva agreements on Viet Nam, in the present temporary partition of the country into two zones, the north and the south zones of Viet Nam will refrain from joining any military alliance with foreign countries, from allowing any foreign country to have military bases, troops and military personnel on their soil, and from recognizing the protection of any country, of any military alliance or bloc.

5. Regarding the foreign policy of peace and neutrality of South Viet Nam.

South Viet Nam will pursue a foreign policy of peace and neutrality, establish relations with all countries regardless of their political and social regime, in accordance with the five principles of peaceful coexistence, maintain economic and cultural relations with all countries, accept the cooperation of foreign countries in the exploitation of the resources of South Viet Nam, accept from any country economic and technical aid without any political conditions attached, and participate in regional plans of economic cooperation.

On the basis of theses principles, after the end of the war, South Viet Nam and the United States will establish relations in the political, economic and cultural fields.

6. Regarding the damage caused by the United States to the Vietnamese people in the two zones.

The U.S. Government must bear full responsibility for the losses and destruction it has caused to the Vietnamese people in the two zones.

7. Regarding the respect for and international guarantee of the accords that will be concluded. The parties will find agreement on the forms of respect for and international guarantee of the accords that will be concluded."

Source: Liberation Press Agency, July 1, 1971. Translation by Robert K. Brigham and Le Phuong Anh.

Last Updated Wednesday, March 17 2004 @ 08:14 PM PST

1 posted on 09/25/2004 4:57:32 PM PDT by RaceBannon
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To: RaceBannon

I'll be damned. Good post.

2 posted on 09/25/2004 4:59:13 PM PDT by Jaysun (It's getting hard to see through all of the "white out" on my screen.)
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To: RaceBannon; kdf1; AMERIKA; Lancey Howard; MudPuppy; SMEDLEYBUTLER; opbuzz; Snow Bunny; ...

At this link, to John Kerry's website, he outlines a 7 point plan for IRAQ.


Let's discuss the similarities!

3 posted on 09/25/2004 4:59:18 PM PDT by RaceBannon (KERRY FLED . . . WHILE GOOD MEN BLED!!)
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To: Jaysun; AnnaZ; Mercuria; tet68; incindiary; HangFire; CounterCounterCulture

One of my Marine buddies pointed this out to me today, I just had to post this !

4 posted on 09/25/2004 5:00:32 PM PDT by RaceBannon (KERRY FLED . . . WHILE GOOD MEN BLED!!)
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To: Jaysun

For the record, these ideas were not Kerry's originally, they were the VIETCONG's but VVAW fully endorsed them.

5 posted on 09/25/2004 5:03:52 PM PDT by RaceBannon (KERRY FLED . . . WHILE GOOD MEN BLED!!)
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To: RaceBannon

Bump..I have said he sounded like he was into his old 71 files...The words may change, the names change, the intent remains..

He is UNFIT!

6 posted on 09/25/2004 5:04:21 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL on issues of national security for two decades)
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To: RaceBannon

WONDERFUL observation. Was this Kerry's plan, though, or McGovern's. Kerry brought back Mme Binh's 8-pt. plant in June 1970. (Not that Kerry wouldn't have taken credit for McGovern's plan . . . )

7 posted on 09/25/2004 5:05:52 PM PDT by Mach9 (.)
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To: RaceBannon
Hanoi Kerry in Paris
and Hanoi Jane in Hanoi

Windows Media .......... Real Player .......... Quick Time .......... AOL

Copy and Paste these url's and e-mail them to everyone.

Look below for media contacts in your area.

Windows Media:



MPEG Version:

Guide to Local Media
Locate media and send them the truth about Hanoi Kerry
Look up your zip code, gives you links to YOUR local media with phone, e-mail etc info.

Free Internet Fax Service
Free E-Mail to Fax from your computer, just fill in form on page , they do the rest.
Make sure you enter fax # like this 12025551212 (no spaces or -)

Is the number you want them to SEND FREE FAX covered?

Complete list of areas they SEND FREE FAXES to

"First I picked Edwards BUT now I pick Hanoi Jane!"

Edwards played football in 1971 when he turned 18
instead of serving in Vietnam.
Hanoi Jane at least was a Viet Cong!
Just like me!

Hanoi Jane and I know how to demoralize US Troops serving today!

We hate US Troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We hate all US Troops!

We lie about them in 2004 the same as we did in the 60's and 70's!

We vow to protect the UN and the Oil for Food Scandal

We vow to keep secret the ties between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaida

We vow to free Saddam Hussein with help from our old friend Ramsey Clark.

John F. Kerry
Timeline of a traitor.
Click Here


Harvard Crimson : Kerry refused order to destroy Viet Cong village

Published on Wednesday, February 18, 1970
John Kerry: A Navy Dove Runs for Congress


Crimson Staff Writer

"...One time Kerry was ordered to destroy a Viet Cong village
but disobeyed orders and suggested that the Navy Command
simply send in a Psychological Warfare team to be
friend the villagers with food, hospital supplies,
and better educational facilities."

Hanoi Kerry and Hanoi Jane sitting in a tree F-R-E-N-C-H-I-N-G

Jane Fonda tells the student audience at the Michigan State University in 1969:

"I would think that if you understood what communism was, you would hope,
you would pray on your knees, that we would someday become communist."

Joe Moore, Can Tho Airfield 550th Signal Company

8 posted on 09/25/2004 5:06:17 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (MAKE SURE YOU ARE CURRENTLY REGISTERED AND VOTE Nov 2nd!)
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To: RaceBannon

History repeats itself using the fools who didn't learn from history.

9 posted on 09/25/2004 5:06:26 PM PDT by pipecorp ("never know where you're going till you get there." the philosopher Insectus Harem)
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To: Mach9

Sorry--"plant" was an obvious Freudian slip. Plan.

10 posted on 09/25/2004 5:06:30 PM PDT by Mach9 (.)
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To: RaceBannon

If you guys can get this comparison down a one page explanation, it would be great.

11 posted on 09/25/2004 5:07:38 PM PDT by gilliam
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To: RaceBannon

What a coinkydink...7 must be Kerry's lucky number

12 posted on 09/25/2004 5:09:33 PM PDT by mystery-ak (Mr Kerry, how did we ever get along without you?)
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To: MEG33

Sapping the morale of our troops for 4 decades, the Kerry's of the world will be trounced come November.

13 posted on 09/25/2004 5:09:45 PM PDT by Rome2000 (The ENEMY for Kerry!!!!!)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

More enemy propaganda in our press.

Posted on Sat, Sep. 25, 2004

Iraqi civilian casualties mounting


Knight Ridder Newspapers

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Operations by U.S. and multinational forces and Iraqi police are killing twice as many Iraqis - most of them civilians - as attacks by insurgents, according to statistics compiled by the Iraqi Health Ministry and obtained exclusively by Knight Ridder.

According to the ministry, the interim Iraqi government recorded 3,487 Iraqi deaths in 15 of the country's 18 provinces from April 5 - when the ministry began compiling the data - until Sept. 19. Of those, 328 were women and children. Another 13,720 Iraqis were injured, the ministry said.

While most of the dead are believed to be civilians, the data include an unknown number of police and Iraqi national guardsmen. Many Iraqi deaths, especially of insurgents, are never reported, so the actual number of Iraqis killed in fighting could be significantly higher.

During the same period, 432 American soldiers were killed.

Iraqi officials said the statistics proved that U.S. airstrikes intended for insurgents also were killing large numbers of innocent civilians. Some say these casualties are undermining popular acceptance of the American-backed interim government.

That suggests that more aggressive U.S. military operations, which the Bush administration has said are being planned to clear the way for nationwide elections scheduled for January, could backfire and strengthen the insurgency.

American military officials said "damage will happen" in their effort to wrest control of some areas from insurgents. They blamed the insurgents for embedding themselves in communities, saying that's endangering innocent people.

Lt. Col. Steve Boylan, an American military spokesman, said the insurgents were living in residential areas, sometimes in homes filled with munitions.

"As long as they continue to do that, they are putting the residents at risk," Boylan said. "We will go after them."

Boylan said the military conducted intelligence to determine whether a home housed insurgents before striking it. While damage would happen, the airstrikes were "extremely precise," he said. And he said that any attacks by the multinational forces were "in coordination with the interim government."

The Health Ministry statistics indicate that more children have been killed around Ramadi and Fallujah than in Baghdad, though those cities together have only one-fifth of the Iraqi capital's population.

According to the statistics, 59 children were killed in Anbar province - a hotbed of the Sunni Muslim insurgency that includes the cities of Ramadi and Fallujah - compared with 56 children in Baghdad. The ministry defines children as anyone younger than 12.

"When there are military clashes, we see innocent people die," said Dr. Walid Hamed, a member of the operations section of the Health Ministry, which compiles the statistics.

Juan Cole, a history professor at University of Michigan who specializes in Shiite Islam, said the widespread casualties meant that coalition forces already had lost the political campaign: "I think they lost the hearts and minds a long time ago."

"And they are trying to keep U.S. military casualties to a minimum in the run-up to the U.S. elections" by using airstrikes instead of ground forces, he said.

American military officials say they're targeting only terrorists and are aggressively working to spare innocent people nearby.

Nearly a third of the Iraqi dead - 1,122 - were killed in August, according to the statistics. May was the second deadliest month, with 749 Iraqis killed, and 319 were killed in June, the least violent month. Most of those killed lived in Baghdad; the ministry found that 1,068 had died in the capital.

Many Iraqis said they thought the numbers showed that the multinational forces disregarded their lives.

"The Americans do not care about the Iraqis. They don't care if they get killed, because they don't care about the citizens," said Abu Mohammed, 50, who was a major general in Saddam Hussein's army in Baghdad. "The Americans keep criticizing Saddam for the mass graves. How many graves are the Americans making in Iraq?"

At his fruit stand in southern Baghdad, Raid Ibraham, 24, theorized: "The Americans keep attacking the cities not to keep the security situation stable, but so they can stay in Iraq and control the oil."

Others blame the multinational forces for allowing security to disintegrate, inviting terrorists from everywhere and threatening the lives of everyday Iraqis.

"Anyone who hates America has come here to fight: Saddam's supporters, people who don't have jobs, other Arab fighters. All these people are on our streets," said Hamed, the ministry official. "But everyone is afraid of the Americans, not the fighters. And they should be."

Iraqi officials said about two-thirds of the Iraqi deaths were caused by multinational forces and police; the remaining third died from insurgent attacks. The ministry began separating attacks by multinational and police forces and insurgents June 10.

From that date until Sept. 10, 1,295 Iraqis were killed in clashes with multinational forces and police versus 516 killed in terrorist operations, the ministry said. The ministry defined terrorist operations as explosive devices in residential areas, car bombs or assassinations.

The ministry said it didn't have any statistics for the three provinces in the north: Arbil, Dohuk and Sulaimaniyah, ethnic Kurdish areas that generally have been more peaceful than the rest of the country.

The Health Ministry is the only organization that attempts to track deaths through government agencies. The U.S. military said it kept estimates, but it refused to release them. Ahmed al Rawi, the communications director of the International Committee of the Red Cross in Baghdad, said the organization didn't have the staffing to compile such information.

The Health Ministry reports to interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, whom the United States appointed in June.

Iraqi health and hospital officials agreed that the statistics captured only part of the death toll.

To compile the data, the Health Ministry calls the directors general of the 15 provinces and asks how many deaths related to the war were reported at hospitals. The tracking of such information has become decentralized since the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime because both hospitals and morgues issue death certificates now. And families often bury their dead without telling any government agencies or are treated at facilities that don't report to the government.

The ministry is convinced that nearly all of those reported dead are civilians, not insurgents. Most often, a family member wouldn't report it if his or her relative died fighting for rebel cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militia or another insurgent force, and the relative would be buried immediately, said Dr. Shihab Ahmed Jassim, another member of the ministry's operations section.

"People who participate in the conflict don't come to the hospital. Their families are afraid they will be punished," said Dr. Yasin Mustaf, the assistant manager of al Kimdi Hospital near Baghdad's poor Sadr City neighborhood. "Usually, the innocent people come to the hospital. That is what the numbers show."

The numbers also exclude those whose bodies were too mutilated to be recovered at car bombings or other attacks, the ministry said.

Ministry officials said they didn't know how big the undercount was. "We have nothing to do with politics," Jassim said.

Other independent organizations have estimated that 7,000 to 12,000 Iraqis have been killed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush declared an end to major combat operations.

Iraqis are aware of the casualties that are due to U.S. forces, and nearly everyone has a story to tell.

At al Kimdi Hospital, Dr. Mumtaz Jaber, a vascular surgeon, said that three months ago, his 3-year-old nephew, his sister and his brother-in-law were driving in Baghdad at about 9 p.m. when they saw an American checkpoint. His nephew was killed.

"They didn't stop fast enough. The Americans shot them immediately," Jaber said. "This is how so many die."

At the Baghdad morgue, Dr. Quasis Hassan Salem said he saw a family of eight brought in: three women, three men and two children. They were sleeping on their roof last month because it was hot inside. A military helicopter shot at them and killed them: "I don't know why."

U.S. officials said any allegations that soldiers had recklessly killed Iraqi citizens were investigated at the Iraqi Assistance Center in downtown Baghdad.

"There is no way to refute" such stories, said Robert Callahan, a spokesman at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad. "All you can do is tell them the truth and hope it eventually will get through."

14 posted on 09/25/2004 5:16:37 PM PDT by Rome2000 (The ENEMY for Kerry!!!!!)
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To: Rome2000
I just received the 5 copies of Stolen Honor that I ordered. Two copies are out already to 2 of my Democrat friends that were wavering about voting for Kerry or not.

I highly recommend that you order Stolen Honor and view it.

How ANYONE can look our POW's in the eye and say that they are going to vote for Kerry is beyond me.

15 posted on 09/25/2004 5:16:57 PM PDT by Viet-Boat-Rider (((KERRY IS A NARCISSISTIC LIAR, GOLDBRICKER, AND TRAITOR!)))
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To: RaceBannon

Good catch. Thanks for the ping.

16 posted on 09/25/2004 5:17:03 PM PDT by LisaFab
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To: Rome2000; Kokojmudd
This is one of the most ONE SIDED reports I've ever read. At the end of this analysis one would wonder if there's even ONE IRAQI that favors being liberated.


We're not killing the bad guys, we're mostly killing "children" and innocent civilians.


Why aren't they asking if they miss Saddam? They sure make it sound like that's what the "reporter" would "really" like to hear.

17 posted on 09/25/2004 5:44:49 PM PDT by Mister Baredog ((Part of the Reagan legacy is to re-elect G.W. Bush))
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To: Kokojmudd

previous post refers to this Knight Ridder report from Iraq.

18 posted on 09/25/2004 5:46:03 PM PDT by Mister Baredog ((Part of the Reagan legacy is to re-elect G.W. Bush))
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To: Mister Baredog
Knight Ridder is actively egaged in the business of sapping America of of its will to fight and underming the morale of our brave soldiers.

VP Cheney will not let its reporter travel with him, for good reason.

Knight Ridder will pay a high price for its treachery.

19 posted on 09/25/2004 5:52:35 PM PDT by Rome2000 (The ENEMY for Kerry!!!!!)
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To: RaceBannon

No. A four point plan would be too short, and people would actually read it. 5 or 12 sounds too much like a self help program. Seven is a lucky number. Six is evil and eight sounds complicated. Other than that, seven is a secret signal to the skull and bones society members to overthrow the government and dynamite all of the oil wells in Saudi Arabia.

20 posted on 09/25/2004 5:55:33 PM PDT by dr_who_2
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