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Things Fall Apart: The Coming End of the Free Trade Coalition
The American Conservative ^ | September 27, 2004 | Ian Fletcher, VP, American Engineering Association

Posted on 09/30/2004 4:35:23 PM PDT by rmlew

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To: The Old Hoosier
BTW, we're still short on health care workers--some parts of the country are in crisis.

Wonderful news.

We are to become nurse maids while WHO defends us?

We will lob "Depends" at the enemy?

41 posted on 10/01/2004 1:55:30 PM PDT by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan)
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To: justshutupandtakeit; NewRomeTacitus

ping


42 posted on 10/01/2004 2:01:49 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: The Old Hoosier

.....sounds nice until you factor in Chinese working for 80 cents a day. Then your theory gets blown out of the water. This is where tarrifs come into play.

"Protectionism" (Tarrifs) are what was origionally supposed to fund Uncle Sham, before income taxes.


43 posted on 10/01/2004 3:33:32 PM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: Regulator

re: post #34. Great point.


44 posted on 10/01/2004 3:35:08 PM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: applemac_g4

How about my case, where I have my own government turning a blind eye to employers who hire criminal trespassers? Is this fair to me? I pay my help well, and pay FICA and all the other Gub-mint bull$hit taxes and regulatory fees. My closest competitor, 40 feet away, does not have to pay. GWB sucks on this issue. He is just as bad as his predecessors.


45 posted on 10/01/2004 3:39:23 PM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: taxed2death

Thanks!


46 posted on 10/01/2004 3:50:22 PM PDT by Regulator
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To: taxed2death

To all those worried about the capability of our country to defend itself in the world, they might consider the ability to sustain a military with no economy to support it. Our economy is as essential to our national defense as any of our military weapons. The economy supports the means to buy the weapon. No economy, no defense will be true over the long run. Welcome the terrorists in with a third world economy, keep buying Made in China!


47 posted on 10/01/2004 4:06:12 PM PDT by meenie
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To: OXM_1962
"For the life of me I don't know why GM and Ford can't compete against Honda and Toyota."

Well, the biggest reason is that the Japanese of the generation now retiring were extraordinarily hungry. Hungry for the wealth, the manufacturing prowess, and the respect of America. The Japanese are still driven by this desire for respect.

Another reason, in the case of Toyota's Prius, is that the battery and charging system is a major achievement. My own estimate is that Matshusta Electric (Panasonic) spent well over a billion dollars developing this technology. General Motors would have to pay for such an investment out of it's own resources. In Japan things don't work like that.

Toyota is selling the Prius at a very big loss. Tens of thousands of dollars. The development costs were incurred by Panasonic. Who actually loaned the money or bought the stock to supply the cash is unknown. Japanese banks carry an incredible amount of bad loans on the books.
48 posted on 10/01/2004 5:17:55 PM PDT by Iris7 ("Man has always sacrificed truth to his vanity, comfort and advantage. He lives... by make-believe.")
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To: Iris7
Who actually loaned the money or bought the stock to supply the cash is unknown.

Used to be that the bank at the top of the manufacturer's keiretsu would underwrite the R&D... isn't Toyota's Mitsui Bank?

49 posted on 10/01/2004 5:30:08 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: Sociopathocracy

Pretty close to my sentiments - no nukes dropped on Saudi's however. I think they could get the message with the Syrian and Iranian regimes changed.


50 posted on 10/01/2004 8:44:46 PM PDT by Henchman (Kerry lied, good men died!)
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To: Sociopathocracy

Come over to try and make the site look like a haven for lunatics?


51 posted on 10/01/2004 10:02:22 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (My father is 10X the hero John Fraud Kerry is.)
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To: The Old Hoosier

>When it isn't, I'll need to find another line of work

And that line of work will be?


52 posted on 10/01/2004 10:03:54 PM PDT by applemac_g4 (Oderint dum metuat!)
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To: rmlew

Trade policy has always been set by national interests. It is in the national interest to compete and create the new as it always has.


53 posted on 10/01/2004 10:04:18 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (My father is 10X the hero John Fraud Kerry is.)
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To: The Old Hoosier; A. Pole; Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; Cacophonous; Jhoffa_; FITZ; arete; ...

As the quality in IT hardware and services declines in order to cut costs, the consumer or small business owner does not see the difference between domestic American products and services. If based on cost alone, it doesn't matter. The acceptance of poor quality service turns into a downward spiral of cost slashing and even further deteriorating quality in equipment and services.

The cultural differences offshore and "programmed" responses is very significant to those that are at least half-way knowledgeable about computer equipment. In only recent years has the bulk of computer manufacturing (not including specialized components and circuit boards which have been made overseas for quite a while) and support services been offshored. All of this cost savings have not been significantly been passed along to the consumers of their products except the extremely larger companies which purchase in such large quantities. The bulk of the savings is retained by the companies offshoring. Many of the companies offshoring (especially those offshoring some of the much more technical jobs such as financial analysts, engineering, etc.) are saving significant funds by offshoring, but the largest expenses have been with mid- and upper-level management whose salaries are grossly misaligned in comparison to the average and even technical employee. Greater funds could be saved by eliminating non-productive and redundant management staff or cutting the pay raises to the corporate executives who think that they deserve all of the funds that they are saving the companies when they should earn only a percentage...but ignore the fact that in actuality, they are gutting the long-term value of their companies at the advantage of short-term profits.

Also, there is a very continued push to bring in more experienced foreign technical workers (including engineers, nurses, and others) through the H-1B and L-1 visas. Corporations don't want to put the investment into assisting or supporting local employees who are going through technical and academic learning. Buy the workers for a couple of years, and then send them back. If it saves them bucks...why have to actually be a corporate leader/manager and work too hard developing and implementing cost savings through improvements in productivity and service efficiency...it is too much hard work...and nobody expects it.

Maybe American citizens should make corporate management more accountable to all of their stockholders and stakeholders. So many Americans own outright or own interests in stock or mutual funds, and it is time to actually make CEOs work at building companies and their long-term value rather than just building excuses and biding time until their forced (or ultimate) departure.


54 posted on 10/01/2004 10:05:51 PM PDT by Jerr (What would Ronald Reagan do?)
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To: rmlew

You are mistaking Hamilton's views if you believe he would make the same economic program for a young, underdeveloped nation with no money supply as for the most developed and technilogical nation in the world.

He had to ideal to move toward free trade but could not in an era where foreign trade terms were almost completely determined by governmental needs.

Competitive, highly productive and creative nations have nothing to fear from free trade. Actually no country does rather the fear is of the unfree trade policies which often lead to general enmiseration.


55 posted on 10/01/2004 10:12:37 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (My father is 10X the hero John Fraud Kerry is.)
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To: OXM_1962

Trade barriers reduce income in the home country and throughout the rest of the world. It is an Iron Law and unavoidable. As a result of the lowered income abroad less is exported from here. So we sell less and income is reduced again. This cycle continues until a new equilibrium with lowered supplies and demands is reached.

Just because my profits go up when my factory's product is protected does not mean the increase is not offset by losses to the rest of the country. Tariffs are an income redistribution scheme.

Reducing trade barriers on the other hand RAISES income inside and Outside the nation reducing them.

This is a no-brainer.


56 posted on 10/01/2004 10:27:53 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (My father is 10X the hero John Fraud Kerry is.)
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To: The Old Hoosier

Opponents to Free Trade cannot understand that barriers reduce income here and abroad. Or they don't care if their policies hurt us as long as they hurt someone else.

An economic policy of Malice.


57 posted on 10/01/2004 10:30:46 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (My father is 10X the hero John Fraud Kerry is.)
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To: Clintonfatigued

Of course the average American benefits from the lower prices given by free trade. That is a ridiculous statement.
How much would gasoline cost if derived entirely from American wells? $10 a gallon? How deep a depression would result from oil prices like that? How much would it cost to heat your home or cool it with energy prices like that?

Don't let that Clinton fatigue extend to your brain.


58 posted on 10/01/2004 10:36:05 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (My father is 10X the hero John Fraud Kerry is.)
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To: ovrtaxt

Since you say that you clearly identify yourself as a prime jackass yourself. Imagine a twit attacking one of our greatest patriots, Washington's right hand man.

You obviously know nothing of Hamilton.


59 posted on 10/01/2004 10:38:51 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (My father is 10X the hero John Fraud Kerry is.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit

Reading all posts with interest.


60 posted on 10/01/2004 10:50:15 PM PDT by Ciexyz (At his first crisis, "President" Kerry will sail his Swiftboat to safety, then call Teddy.)
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