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FR Live Thread: Bush Kerry - First Debate - Thread 2 - Here we go!

Posted on 09/30/2004 5:57:19 PM PDT by Admin Moderator

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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I watched it and I was frankly distressed not so much about missed opportunities or the "unpreparedness". I was distressed at how disturbed President Bush looked at many points when Kerry was spinning responses. I thought he would be more cool and collected and in command. That is how Kerry will be percieved as winnning the debate.

BUT! Kerry also failed because it appears he was trying desperately to completely turn the tables and on Pres. Bush by labeling him as a flip-flopper while portraying himself as steadfast. THAT WAS THE USED CAR PITCH THAT ABSOLUTELY FELL FLAT. COUPLE THAT WITH NOT HAVING GIVEN ANY DIFFERENT IRAQ PLAN AND HIS APPEARANCE AS SIMPLY A CRITIC AND BACKSEAT DRIVER AND JFK CLEARLY FAILED IN WHAT HE NEEDED TO DO IN THIS DEBATE. No fundamentals of the race are changed.


2,651 posted on 09/30/2004 8:06:18 PM PDT by SolomoninSouthDakota
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To: concerned about politics

I didn't see it, and only heard the last of it. But all cosmetic issues aside, Bush crushed Kerry with one statement that probably is lost in the noise: If it's the wrong war, why would any "multinationals" step in and participate? Kerry was a well-spoken putz. We'll see...


2,652 posted on 09/30/2004 8:06:21 PM PDT by Chaguito
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To: sinkspur
Let's do better next time, but please, people, let's not turn into kooks.

Bush is clearly not the most articulate politician around, but that is one thing. The notion that Kerry had a heads up on the debate questions is not an impossible thing to consider. Despite Jim Leherer's initial comments, I simply do not trust journalists. Anyone who does is simply not paying attention to reality.

2,653 posted on 09/30/2004 8:06:28 PM PDT by Radix (What turns orange in Sept., is carved up in Oct., and is thrown out in Nov.?)
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To: All

so far the consensus on FOX and on NRO seems to be that the president was not on his game, but that there were no big mistakes. The Fox Panel did pretty much agree that the race will tighten now in a way that it wouldn't had the president knocked it out of the park.


2,654 posted on 09/30/2004 8:06:30 PM PDT by MMkennedy
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To: GVgirl

This debate was watched by diehard political junkies like us, ordinary Americans (like my husband) didn't watch. I don't think either guy won/lost. My expectations were too high for a slam dunk.

Posting time is atrocious.......gees, FR were sloooooowwwwwwww, which is great that all were participating.


2,655 posted on 09/30/2004 8:06:50 PM PDT by tioga
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To: MNJohnnie

I've quietly believed for a couple of months now that Bush will win in a landslide. Nothing tonight changed my opinion. Even in the course of this debate, Kerry gave about 3 different positions on the war in Iraq, and I think it would be noticable even to people who don't much follow politics that his advocacy that we "go it alone" in diplomacy with North Korea is completely inconsistent with his position that we didn't get enough of the world on our side on Iraq. Huh? This is a man whose only firm political position is that he really, really, really wants to be President.

I think the debate perfectly showed both Kerry's character and Bush's, and I think the American people are going to vote overwhelmingly for Bush. We'll see.


2,656 posted on 09/30/2004 8:06:51 PM PDT by walden
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To: Weirdad
It is obvious Kerry had the questions beforehand. He can't even answer straight at a news conference ordinarily. The press and media are determined Bush is going to lose. They gave him the questions.

Yup, the stealing by the Democrats HAS begun folks!!

2,657 posted on 09/30/2004 8:06:55 PM PDT by prophetic (What do u call someone who flip-flops so much? A Politician? No, a HYPOCRITE!!)
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To: All
Some of you getting ready to jump off the bridge need to read Hugh Hewitt:

Hugh Scores Big Win for Bush

2,658 posted on 09/30/2004 8:06:59 PM PDT by WoodstockCat (DNC and John Kerry: Forgers R' Us)
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To: hispanarepublicana

Classic.


2,659 posted on 09/30/2004 8:07:06 PM PDT by steveegg (John F'em Ke(rr)y - I was for outsourcing assassinations before I was against it.)
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To: george wythe
Who can sift through well over 2,500 posts! So someone may have already said it, but Kerry did make one flub that I did not see anyone on the internet catching yet:

KERRY WENT TO THE OLD KGB BUILDING IN MOSCOW (with Senator Bob Smith). That area is called "Lubyanka Square" NOT "TREBLINKA SQUARE."

Lurch just placed a notorious Nazi concentration camp in Poland right into Soviet Russia!!

2,660 posted on 09/30/2004 8:07:07 PM PDT by AmericanInTokyo ( MSM is the nanny watchdog of everyone/everything; yet they explode w/rage when THEY are audited.)
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To: Hi Heels; All
And he played to middle class America. IMHO he was very effective.

Well, i an honestly say i pray that you are right, and i am wrong. But, at BEST, Bush missed soooo many opportunities. i don't think i even heard Bush mention Kerry voting against the first gulf war.

2,661 posted on 09/30/2004 8:07:10 PM PDT by tame (Are you willing to do for the truth what leftist are willing to do for a lie?)
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To: goldstategop
My impression is its a draw. Its not where Senator Kerry needs to go to change the dynamics of this race.

I agree. Kerry has committed to using Iraq has his centerpiece for the rest of the campaign and tonight he needed to put the President in a corner on that issue and he didn't. The next 2 debates will be easier for the President and don't forget what Karl Rove said yesterday about having a couple of 'suprises' for Kerry in the next few weeks.

2,662 posted on 09/30/2004 8:07:12 PM PDT by Semper Paratus
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To: Joy Angela

Liberal Paul Sullivan on WBZ Boston calls it a draw.


2,663 posted on 09/30/2004 8:07:12 PM PDT by zook
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To: Wormwood

I feel very let down. The man did not prepare. He thought he would just skate through this, even though everyone told him that it was going to be tough!

Shame on him. This is very important. We can not have Kerry in charge. Bush needs to work harder. Bone up on his Kerry facts, and humble himself. Pride got him flustered. He needed to work on this. This type of thing is hard for him and he knows it. He should have had a coach and worked hard.


2,664 posted on 09/30/2004 8:07:17 PM PDT by tuckrdout (Grant Teri Schindler (Schiavo) her wishes: Divorce and LIFE!)
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To: rwfromkansas

Local group of uncommitted , Nashville TN, dead even, 50/50 after debate.


2,665 posted on 09/30/2004 8:07:21 PM PDT by MagnumRancid
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To: Tribune7
The only thing you can say bad about Bush is that he garbled his syntax a little, stammered...

I'm not sure how that will play with the undecideds, but to me, it made him appear unrehearsed and very sincere - so I thought that was actually all right.

Kerry looked polished, but there's only so much you can do to hide the fact that someone is an arrogant a__hole who has nothing to offer besides criticism.

(Trying to be positive here...I think this probably helped Kerry and hurt Bush a little, because it's hard to win against someone who will say anything, no matter how outrageous a lie.)

2,666 posted on 09/30/2004 8:07:41 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (The police never think it's as funny as you do.)
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To: george wythe

>Bush look tired, the way I look when I have to stay up past my bedtime.<

That's the problem with being an incumbent. Bush has to actually work, while Kerry gets to have Manicures and Man Tans.


2,667 posted on 09/30/2004 8:07:48 PM PDT by Darnright
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To: tame
ROTFLOL.....doubly wrong.Facts aren't "projection" and neither are facts "argumentum ad hominem". Learn two new terms lately,have you? ;^)
2,668 posted on 09/30/2004 8:07:57 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: finallyatexan
Looks like the Dummies are flooding the polls

Because of Terri's memo today .. sites like the DU and the Daily KOS .. have been pushing to vote on the polls

So I wouldn't count on those polls as being accurate

2,669 posted on 09/30/2004 8:08:01 PM PDT by Mo1 (Why is the MSM calling the Vietnam Vets and POW's a suspected group??)
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To: SilentServiceCPOWife
He came across as an arrogant snob

That was precisely the impression I got from the first words spoken from his mouth and his facial grimaces. Bush will get my vote for his honesty in answering questions...BTW, didn't it seem kerry spoke for longer periods of time???

2,670 posted on 09/30/2004 8:08:04 PM PDT by ejo
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To: kpp_kpp

"I could care less about style -- I could not keep track of the number of flip-flops and inconsistencies just within the debate itself. And everyone saying "Kerry had facts" is just silly, he may have made statements that sounded like facts but it was so absurd one doesn't know where to start."


That is my take also. Good post!


2,671 posted on 09/30/2004 8:08:12 PM PDT by gigi
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To: okokie

Because then the crows won't leave, and the wizard won't recognize you.


2,672 posted on 09/30/2004 8:08:18 PM PDT by TheLurkerX (I weep for the stupid.)
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To: annyokie
Put down the koolaid.

Put away the cynicism. Not everyone thinks Bush dropped the ball on this. Different people see things differently. That doesn't mean everyone is drinking "koolaid".

2,673 posted on 09/30/2004 8:08:20 PM PDT by Sister_T (Democrats AND The Partisan Press are the REAL enemies to freedom in the world!)
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To: deport

Absolutely perfect. Thanks for the link.


2,674 posted on 09/30/2004 8:08:22 PM PDT by Southflanknorthpawsis (FR = A pajama party 24/7)
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To: cyncooper

Karen Hughes is on w/ Hannity & Colmes nailing Kerry to the wall.


2,675 posted on 09/30/2004 8:08:26 PM PDT by savedbygrace
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To: Admin Moderator

I CAN'T BELEIVE NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT KERRY GIVING IRAN NUCLEAR FUEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'M I DRUNK OR DID HE SAY THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING HE SAID TONIGHT IN SUPPORT OF OUR ENEMIES!!!!!!!!!!!

IF HE SAID THAT WE NEED TO HAMMER IT HOME EVERYWHERE!!!!!!


2,676 posted on 09/30/2004 8:08:38 PM PDT by wvromania (CHALLENGE KERRY to release DATE and TIME he Visited Troops at hospital!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Hi Heels; All
And he played to middle class America. IMHO he was very effective.

Well, i an honestly say i pray that you are right, and i am wrong. But, at BEST, Bush missed soooo many opportunities. i don't think i even heard Bush mention Kerry voting against the first gulf war.

2,677 posted on 09/30/2004 8:08:38 PM PDT by tame (Are you willing to do for the truth what leftist are willing to do for a lie?)
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To: RasterMaster

RasterMaster,

I can't refute your observations as my comments were based on what I heard on the radio, not TV. I hope your right that Kerry's activities at the podium distracted people from the BS coming speying out of his pie-hole. However, when listening on the radio, Bush seemed to stammer and hesistate like I've never heard before. He needs to be better prepared and take the offense in D2.

Best.


2,678 posted on 09/30/2004 8:08:45 PM PDT by He'sComingBack! (God Bless our Troops & Pres. Bush)
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To: All

Bottom line is this, friends. If you were looking for a knock out punch from either side you might see it, or you might not. But campaigns are not necessarily won in a single snapshot moment -- they are won or lost over time.

These so-called "undecideds", along with the MSM are looking for the "A-HA!" moment -- that moment in a debate or a speech when something said or done confirms a bottom line, deeply held belief. There were tiny little moments of that tonight, but no big "A-HA!" that will be played over and over again.

A day is a lifetime in a campaign, friends. It will swing this way and that like a pendulum all the way up to election day. Do not be distracted, over-confident or in despair. Instead, focus like a laser beam on the result and the result only.


2,679 posted on 09/30/2004 8:08:47 PM PDT by ConservativeGadfly
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To: dead
There will be a townhall style Presidential debate and then another moderator-lead Presidential debate on domestic issues.

I was not aware that there were going to be three presidential debates, plus the VP debate. What is a "townhall-style" debate?

I was nervous about this debate and felt Bush underperformed. Kerry is such an obvious liar though, that Bush's stumbling may not matter. I can't wait to see the Cheney/Edwards debate- I have no doubt that Cheney will manhandle Edwards.
2,680 posted on 09/30/2004 8:08:53 PM PDT by Blowtorch
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To: F16Fighter

Fighter, plain folk always rally around those who can't think straight.
It's a sign of character.
I, myself, would prefer a mute president.


2,681 posted on 09/30/2004 8:08:54 PM PDT by alcuin (getridofthateffinlooselipssinkshipsgesture)
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To: Admin Moderator

Have Karen Hughes and Bea Arthur ever been seen at the same time?


2,682 posted on 09/30/2004 8:08:58 PM PDT by southernnorthcarolina (about as sensitive as a goddam toilet seat)
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To: international american
"YOU are correct!! Kerry will pick up NO votes from this debate!!"

FOX panel consensus...Kerry did better than Bush and polls will tighten "slightly." Kristol seemed bummed. Fred seemed unphased, still thinks Bush will win election.

2,683 posted on 09/30/2004 8:09:10 PM PDT by DestroytheDemocrats
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To: Admin Moderator
My opinion of Bush's performance was that he didn't deliver a knockout punch, but he didn't have to. As long as he didn't make a gaffe, he was fine.

His hammering home of Kerry's indecision and that the war was crucial for American safety was smart. Bush didn't have to counter Kerry's BS about the Uranium in Niger or WMDS. All he had to do is keep repeating the fact that Kerry saw the same intelligence and voted accordingly.
2,684 posted on 09/30/2004 8:09:11 PM PDT by Freepdonia (Victory is Ours!)
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To: Gunder
I don't know what debate you and some others watched this evening.

I waited until after the debate to post on FR so I would not see the rabble of critical thinkers we seem to have here.

Bush did well. He did exceptionally well during the first half of the debate.

The second half was not quite as good but it was enough to carry the debate in my opinion.

Kerry was typical Kerry. All talk and no substance.

He failed to explain any of his positions and further damaged his campaign by threatening cancellation of another weapons program and the stupid statements about N Korea.

Bush's closing was good and he lay-ed out his plans for Iraq in simple enough terms for any idiot to understand.

Kerry counters with "He has no plan".

I give the debate to Bush. 60/40!IMHO

2,685 posted on 09/30/2004 8:09:12 PM PDT by Cold Heat (http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/staticpages/index.php?page=20040531140357545)
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To: walden
Bush spoke to the American people.
Kerry spoke at them.
2,686 posted on 09/30/2004 8:09:36 PM PDT by concerned about politics (Vote Republican - Vote morally correct!)
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To: COURAGE

"Welcome to the Grim FReeper Club!"

Boy, ain't that the truth. Gloom and doom throughout the land. The American people out there heard Bush saying (in between his inarticulateness, which translates as sincere) I will keep you safe, I will fight terrorism on your behalf, I'm not slick but I'm determined to protect America and I won't waffle. That's what middle America will see and hear, not all the negativity of too many Freepers here, which really surprises me. Did any of you think that Bush was a great debater? He's not a lawyer like Kerry, he's not smooth, but that is part of his charm. Kerry came across like what he is, a pompous senator, a great talker with no plan. We'll see what the verdict of the ordinary souls like us turns out to be, and I believe that will be positive for Bush, and negative for Kerry. Come on Freepers, cheer up. Do you want the enemy that cruises our site to see all this gloom? I don't.


2,687 posted on 09/30/2004 8:09:43 PM PDT by flaglady47
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To: annyokie
Our beloved President didn't redeem himself. Kerry looked nervous at first, but Dubya fumbled. Kerry won this round on points.

A small part of me is pleased that this happened. I've been hearing an awful lot of "this one's in the bag" talk from Freepers since Bush went up across the board in the polls. A very wise person once said that you should always "campaign like you're 10 points behind".

In my opinion, this is a much-needed splash of cold water in the face when it comes to complacency in the ranks. With all the RAT voter fraud that's already being unearthed, we really do need to campaign like we're 10 points down.

2,688 posted on 09/30/2004 8:09:48 PM PDT by asgardshill (Got a lump of coal? Tell Mary Mapes to 'shove it' - in 2 weeks you'll have a diamond.)
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To: nopardons
I didn't post any doom and gloom -

I posted a fact - When John Kerry answered Jim Leherer's question of what position is yours with concern to the situation in North Korea......

John Kerry said he took "BOTH" positions!! -

G.W. Bush should have jumped all over that - Said that says it all about my opponent America - He tries to take BOTH positions when it comes to HARD Decisions.....(and you can't do that when you are President).

The fact is that would have been the HUGE Zinger of the whole debate......it would have been played over and over -

2,689 posted on 09/30/2004 8:09:49 PM PDT by Khaosai
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To: Darnright

Even if Kerry won he did not win big. It will not effect teh real polls only the fake ones. Mort already had talking points Rush was saying. The polls will narrow. A tiger is a Tiger.


2,690 posted on 09/30/2004 8:09:59 PM PDT by Brimack34
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To: ApesForEvolution

I'm trying to vote for Bush on the CNN.com quick poll and it won't let me submit my answer.

Looks like they aren't allowing votes anymore because the total numbers aren't changing (and it looks great for Kerry).


2,691 posted on 09/30/2004 8:10:04 PM PDT by jq2
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
"I don't know what debate you watched. Bush spoke from the heart, to the heartland. And Kerry just promoted the UN. Bush won, plain and simple."

Correct. The IMPRESSION people will get overall is of Bush in command, and sincere, and human. Bush was ON MESSAGE--once the debate is forgotten, the IMPRESSION will remain. Bush won.

2,692 posted on 09/30/2004 8:10:06 PM PDT by Darkwolf377
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To: sinkspur

Actually, it may not have been that bad; Bush talked to his base and I'm sure he held them.

He is what he is.

I don't think Bush could have BEAT Kerry tonight.......but Kerry didn't win anything; people I have talked to who aren't politicos like us are telling me that Kerry was an empty suit, just bashing Bush.


2,693 posted on 09/30/2004 8:10:06 PM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: Eva

I suspect certain polls were open early!


2,694 posted on 09/30/2004 8:10:26 PM PDT by OldFriend (It's the soldier, not the reporter who has given US freedom of the press)
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To: dead
Bush started horribly, finished decently

I thought he started well and did worse towards the end. Doesn't matter. Americans knew he wasn't a great debater. But he plainly stated his positions and made sense. Kerry didn't. Bush probably made more sense to the mushy middle and independents. That's what counts.

2,695 posted on 09/30/2004 8:10:30 PM PDT by plain talk
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
I thought President Bush did just fine

I agree. I don't believe any of the dynamics of the race changed tonight, and that hurts Kerry.

I'm suprised few FReepers noticed - Kerry made several pointed references to liberal causes (Kyoto, nuclear proliferation, etc.), a clear indicator that his grip on the left of his party is weak.

That being the case, did attempting to appear to be a hawk help him with his base? IMO, no.

2,696 posted on 09/30/2004 8:10:38 PM PDT by TonyInOhio (We ARE the New Media.)
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To: AMDG&BVMH

Kerry doesn't even remember the history with Iran.


2,697 posted on 09/30/2004 8:10:40 PM PDT by Jaded ((Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. - Mark Twain))
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To: oceanview

What blows my mind is that Rather, who's credibility is already circling the toilet bowl, decided to follow up memo-gate with the draft story and and lies about what the director of selective service said. The man is sad excuse for human being let alone a journalist.

The upside to all this should be that, regardless of how poorly the president may come off in this or subsequent debates, the attacks from the left are going so over the top that few can ignore the lies being told or pass them off as anything but.

I'm still hoping for the big Osama catch to materialize before the election.

As for the next debate, they should put Terriza up against the First Lady. When people see those two together Kerry's campaign will be over. Crass vs. Class.


2,698 posted on 09/30/2004 8:10:42 PM PDT by PsyOp (The bombing begins in five minutes. - Ronald Reagan.)
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To: Texas Eagle

"Now, now. Calm down. Senator Spitball pointed out earlier in the debate that he would increase funding for police and firefighters. So if we should suffer a nuclear attack there will be plenty of police and firefighters on hand."

"Unless they happened to get nuked. But what are the odds?"

;) Thanks I needed that. I was a tad upset.

Seriously, if Kerry is in the odds are in the favor of terrorists. So we'll be caught with out pants down and unlike Sandy Berger we won't have anything there ... but heck we'll clean up what ever survives and march on with white flags and hope our "sensitivty" to them makes them like us more.

I do wish Bush had clobbered this freak. He can do it nicely and in a joking manner. You don't have to be all mean and nasty.


2,699 posted on 09/30/2004 8:10:51 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: MNJohnnie

BRAVO...well said.


2,700 posted on 09/30/2004 8:10:56 PM PDT by nopardons
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