Posted on 10/01/2004 3:09:50 PM PDT by Steven W.
Hugh on fire with the correct analysis on last night's debate.
A good counterbalance to the lead story on Brit Hume's show, where Carl Cameron says Kerry feels they're now on "offense" instead of defense and they're all happy in Democratland. Ugh.
I tend to think the more people realize what Kerry actually *said* last night, the less people will like it.
This may explain Bush's "lackluster" performance last night....As with most of this campaign, why butt-in when your opponent is in the process of destroying himself?
Now nit picking: Dean Acheson, not Dean Rusk who went to visit de Gaulle
I've read elsewhere that the comments about visiting KGB basement was wrong, too, in that Kerry specified name of Nazi concentration camp, not a square in Russia. Frankly I questioned the legitimacy of that story at all because it had all the tone and hallmarks of one of Kerry's ficticious lies he brings up in those kinds of situations ala Christmas in Cambodia.
They've all botoxed their sagging spirits.
That was inevitable & pre-ordained before the debate even started.
Kerry's voice.....is grating....I can't take it.
that's not the point as much as Kerry tried to use the Cuban Missile Crisis to justify his global test when it was not an example of such.
Exactly!!! The msm has been busy today pushing skerry. Never let the facts get in the way of a superficial story.
Treblinka is a imfamous Nazi concetration camp.
There's a fine line between joy and hysteria. The Democrats are in hysterics...insane hysterics. Seriously, the Dems are all a-twitter today because Kerry spoke to the base...that amorphous mass of leftist appeasers, defeatists, and French-lovers who make up the bulk of the Democrat Party. They loved what they heard, and Kerry was very good at articulating their beloved positions. But those comments didn't play well in Allentown today, nor in any other burg in flyover country.
Both Hugh and Britt might be accurate.
Kerry's camp probably feels they are on the offensive
I liked the analogy of his absurdity example of Roosevelt attacking Mexico in response to Pearl Harbor. Is it too late?
Fine. Let them push aggressively push forward with a foreign policy agenda and positions that are pre-9/11 in tone and relevancy. The majority of Americans will reject them.
They may very well feel they are on the offensive.
All the better for us. They are missing the undercurrents and when it hits them, they are going to be blindsided.
Exactly! When you listen to Kerry's words, your hair stands on end! The man is a total nutjob.
Bush had to convince the undecided voter who weren't paying attention before and won't pay attention in the future that he deserves to be re-elected.
With these people he had just this one shot and he didn't make the sale.
Granted, Kerry gave Bush some good sound bytes to use, but Bush could have still gotten those bytes while looking like he cared what was going on around him.
Bush gave the Kerry campaign new life.
Think about it - if anybody is on the fence between Kerry & Bush, they're NOT anti-war candidates. Anti-war candidates, whom Kerry was targeting with his posture in last night's debate, were split between Nader & Kerry. He did nothing to reassure true moderates who want to win the war on terror.
GW seemed tired last night, and no wonder. Imagine being President 24/7, campaigning, and going up against a very skilled debater who got the questions early!
If you don't do as well as you'd like in the debate, Rove will use the clips of Kerry, re: global test and other absurdities.
I think the deal made for the debates were that no clips could be used in ads. This is what I heard, could be wrong. Wouldn't apply to internet ads
They certainly are offensive.
The bright side of all this is that it really lowers the expectations for Bush in the next debate.
One thing we got out of last night's debate was a month's worth of damaging soundbites from Kerry. We'll see who actually "won" this debate when the final vote is take a month from tomorrow.
There isn't a times worth of difference between the three of them.
You hit the nail on the head. Kerry spoke to his base while Bush spoke to the swing voters; and the swing voters were turned off by Kerry's attacks and mean-spiritedness. And Kerry gave the Republicans ammo with his ill-advised comments on Global Testing, nuclear-tipped bunker busters and North Korea. Bush gave up a tactical loss in order to gain a strategic advantage. Kerry is bleeding out and doesnt even realize it.
Beaten by 24 seconds! Drat!
Personally, I've always found it easier to get others to disarm when I have a bigger gun. It's probably one of those ethnic Texan things.
I disagree, most experts say that the debate was even. Many gave the win to Kerry but it wasn't a knock out.
Bush made no big mistakes, but Kerry and "global test" will haunt him for weeks
That is TOTALLY wrong - note my point above.
For such a person is definitely NOT anti-war or else they'd already be for Kerry or Nader (or Dean) and NEVER for Bush. Kerry didn't target those people at all; it was all negative, derogatory anti-war michael-moore-onics galore, even Halliburton and war-for-oil stuff. No moderates are swayed by that and, in fact, likely ended up in Bush's camp (I guessed a small percentage, probably 1%).
Not only is Kerry a skilled debater, he spent the day yesterday getting preened, fluffed, botoxed, lip-glossed, and pampered. When you consider that Kerry is a guy who has hardly shown up for work in the Senate the past year, no wonder he looked more rested than Bush.
Translation: He didn't pee his pants on national TV.
I read on another thread that using the clips is verbotten until after the election, due to the debate rules agreed to.
Dunno if it is true. Certainly the statements can be used.
Clinton is smarter and smoother.
Gore's still trying to figure out what he wants to be when he grows up, although I think he's narrowed it down to either slimfast spokesperson or man who stands on the street corner shouting at no one.
Kerry's just as big a liar, but a lot less smooth than Clinton.
The left agrees with Kerry's subjection of American sovereignty to foreign control. That's why they're so giddy today. But this won't play well everywhere from New Jersey to the Nevada/California border.
W gave Kerry enough rope....
Or as my father used to say...
Don't get in a pi$$ing contest with a skunk
The end result of last night's exercise will be that Kerry thought he was going to a debate. Only this morning did he learn he was really filming RNC ads.
Can anyone give me a live stream? thanks!
Yes, but it was in the form of the global test ...
Otherwise he simply pointed people to johnkerry.com because he knew if he was to say 'train more Iraqis, suck up to Chirac, hold a summit & - whatever the other one is' - he'd have been laughed off the stage and left no plausible deniability for his campaign stooges.
"It's undeniable that President Bush did not have a strong debate."
I was listening to it on radio. I Bush sounded to me as though he was ahgry, resentful. I felt her resented having to entertein a man who gets away with lies and hypocrisy that would END ANY REPUBLICANS CHANCES FORTHWITH.
Also, I think Bush may have been over coached and was trying to remember prepared responses to certain cues from Kerry rather than listening and resopnding as HIMSELF.
PREDICTION: In one or both of the subsequent debates Bush will relax and his innate sense of humor will take over and he will SKEWER Kerry on live TV. Kerry is way too flawed NOT to be shown up.
Overall: Bush gets a big win, by hitting all his messages over and over again. He wins on substance. Biggest mistake by Kerry: "The Global Test." Sorry, the American voters aren't interested in passing any global tests. Bush stresses steadfastness and resolve. Kerry firmed up the hard-left vote, but you can't win on this.
Lehrer started poorly, but came on strong.
UPDATE: The FoxNews panel agrees: "Global Test" is the takeaway. On substance, Kerry wants appeasement of North Korea and Iran, globalization of conflict resolution, and a summit. Bush wants to take the war to the terrorists. Kerry wants meetings.
Bill Kristol thinks Kerry supporters are heartened. I agree. But so are Bush supporters. Kristol: "The core of the Bush claim is 9/11, and the world changed, and the Democrats want to go back to 9/10."
The message is simple, says Barnes: Your children will be safer. Fred's right. Bush knew what he had to do which is speak the truth about the war and the nature of the struggle.
Spinning is underway everywhere, but tomorrow and for 30+ days I'll be playing the global test clip, because it was the window into Kerry's soul, and Bush immediately rejected it because Bush wants nothing of it. As I wrote below: Game, set, match.
Presidential Debate Scorecard
September 11 changed how America must look at the world." Taliban gone. Elections coming. In Iraq, we saw a threat, and after 9/11 we realized we must act before threats fully materialize. Libya, A.Q. Khan. "Pursuing a strategy of freedom around the world.
A
Election of Sen. Kerry increase the chances of 9/11-like attacks? Great deflection. "It isn't going to happen." 10,000,000 registered to vote in Afghanistan
A
"We also have to be smart, Jim. And smart means not taking your eye off the target."
List of a few generals. Weak response.
Osama bin Laden escaped. Blaming Bush for outsourcing
B-
Cheap shot. Biased question. Kerry got a straightforward question. Bush got one Kerry could have drafted. Mistakes Bush made? Says Kerry declared Saddam was a grave threat. Nice comeback, "I agree with him" on Kerry's 2003 statement
A
"Somebody who's been in combat" Talking points. Says Afghanistan is going bad
B-
Another biased question, leading Kerry to where he wants to go. Split screen briefly "What about Senator Kerry's point?" Bin Laden v. Saddam "We've got the capacity to do both."
Global nature of war. Staying power. Praises Allawi.
A
"Iraq was not even close to the center of the war on terror until the president invaded it."
Big mistake.
F
Another biased question, one that Kerry would want. Lehrer is four for four. Both Kerry and Bush look quite good. "He voted to authorize the use of force." I don't see how you can lead this country if you say wrong war, wrong place...what message does that send."
A
"We have to be steadfast and resolved, and I am. We can't leave. But that doesn't mean it was a mistake to take the focus off Osama."
B
"As president, what would you do, differently to increase the Homeland Security of the U.S.?" "I hope he gets to how he;s going to pay for all these promises. My administration has tripled the amount of money that we have spent on Homeland Security." Facts. 3.1 billion for fire and police. But the best way to protect this homeland is to be on the offense. We have to be right 100% of the time, the enemy has to get it right once."
Stumbled on delivery. Good content
B
"What kind of mixed message does it send to ...police there, not here, firemen there, not one nickle into tunnels, bridges, subways, bridges. Containers not inspected. Cargohold not x-rayed. More important to this president to give tax cuts to wealthiest Americas..."
A nice set of charges.
Unbelievable. Does Kerry get any fast balls tonight? Of course we are doing everything to protect America. I wake up every morning thinking about how to do that. It is hard work. You'd better have a president who chases these terrorists down and bring 'em to justice." FBI changed its culture? There are 100,000 hours of tape unlistened to. test is not more money, it is everything possible. Didn't need that tax cut. Criteria for bringing troops home? I want to do so because we have achieved an objective. When our generals on the ground and Ambassador Negroponte tells me the Iraqis are ready to defend themselves.."
Notes Kerry's six month promise.
"This is a vital mission..."
A
My message to the troops is also thank you, but it is also "Help is on the way." The troops deserve better than they are getting. Story of "we need you. You gotta help us over there."
Cites Bush 41. "That's exactly where we find ourselves today. The only building that was guarded was the oil ministry." Moore's Disease?
"I know what its like to go out on one of those missions..."
D
Shades of Vietnam, Jim. Why don't you ask him if he thinks about Lyndon Johnson. Help is on the way: Wrong war wrong place. Wrong time. Not a message a Commander in Chief gives. $87 billion. Flip flop. That's not what a Commander in Chief does.
Home run.
A
President made a mistake in invading Iraq.
"Vietnam" mentioned.
D
You spoke to Congress...How do you ask a man to die for a mistake? "That's totally absurd." Nails Kerry on blasting our allies. "Join us in a grand diversion."
Core convictions keep changing because of politics in America."
Boom.
A
"It isn't a mistake."
Huh? He just said it was a mistake.
Incoherent.
Halliburton shot.
D
Finally, a good question, tough. And Kerry whiffs. Both candidates still speaking well and making their points. To Bush:What was the miscalculation of conditions. Rapid victory allowed Baathists to lay down arms and slip away. I am a realist and an optimist, but we cannot win if we send mixed signals to our troops, our friends, and the Iraqi citizens."
B
North Korea?
C
Tough but fair question for the president To Kerry: You have accused the president of lying. Give us examples. My opponent just said that Osama used the invasion of Iraq...Osama doesn't get to decide how we defend...Uses Kerry's own words. I wasn't misleading. And uses Kerry's word agains and again.
What is misleading is to say that you can lead and succeed if you keep changing your positions. Not how Commander in Chiefs act.
Same intelligence.
A, because Kerry cannot answer this.
You cannot change positions on this war on terror if you change positions.
B. Stumbled on the Osama explanation.
I have never used the harshest word, I'll tell you exactly how.
Yellowcake! Unbelievable.
The coalition wasn't big enough
The UN was cut short
I have worked with these leaders longer than the president
C
Tough question for Kerry To Bush: Has the war in Iraq been worth the 1,052 lives lost in Iraq "The hardest part of the job is to know I committed the troops to the mission, and then to comfort the loved ones who lost a son or a daughter or a husband and a wife." "I told her after we prayed and teared up and laughed some that I thought her husbands sacrifice was noble and worthy, because I understand the stakes of this war on terror."
Was it worth it? Every life is precious, that's what distinguishes us from the enemy. But I think it is worth it.
Bush has made the "wrong war" comment half a dozen times. He knows this is the doom for the Kerry candidacy.
A
I understand what the president is talking about because I understand what it means to lose people in combat ...Vietnam again...It is vital for us not to confuse the war with the warriors. That happened before [who did that JFK, in 1971?]
Weak
C-
The Pottery Barn rule? Yeah, Powell said that years ago. But this isn't the Pottery Barn
Tough but fair. The number is just drama from a moderator who isn't supposed to hunt for drama. To Kerry: Specifics, time-lines, for ending major US military involvement in Iraq "There's 100,000 [Iraqi] troops trained. Now my opponent says he is trying to change the dynamics on the ground. Alklawi was here. My opponent questioned his credibility. You can't change the dynamics on the ground when you do that. nailed the Lockhart"puppet" slam. Very strong.
Bush is very well prepared and confident.
A
Bad for Kerry: "I didn't say six months, I said six months if..."
Sound bite.
Fallujah? Heading to the right of the President as RogerLSimon suggested on my show tonight? Shouldn't have backed off. Bush needs to answer that.
Bad start, good finish. B-
Fair question, needs a follow up Another pre-emptive war? I would hope never to have to do so again. But by speaking clearly, sending messages that are clear...Look at Libya...Libya understood. But there's a solemn duty to protect...
A
In answer to your question, he just said "The enemy attacked us. Saddam didn't attack us. Al Qaeda attacked us. We had him cornered, we didn't use the best trained troops in the world, they outsourced the job..."
A from the fever swamps view; a disaster for mosy of the electorate.
D
Great question To think that another round of resolutions would have caused Saddam to disarm is ludicrous. 35 to 40 countries had a greater capability of making weapons than Saddam Hussein. And while he's gotten diverted, NK, Iran Darfur... To Kerry Pre-emptive war? What's he mean, passes a global test? You take preemptive action in order to protect the American people."
Game, set match.
A
President always has the right. "But if and when you do it Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the global test..."
The global test? Prove to the world that you did it for legit reasons?
Disaster. Major disaster. UN John surfaces.
F
Great question NK/Iran: Diplomacy and sanctions enough I certainly hope so. Explains five party process. Firmness on Iran.
A
We should have given Iran the fuel?
Another disaster.
Misrepresents the North Korean dynamic, which won't last through tomorrow as it
Ais a tissue of lies.
Good questions Lehrer: Talks The minute we have bilateral talks. The breach of the agreement was the highly enriched uranium. We have already sanctioned Iran. Kerry wants bilateral talks Kerry: Darfur
Responds on Iran by noting the sanctions were there long before he got there. Good reply to the bad move by Kerry.I agree it is genocide, and Colin Powell so stated. Offers some troops. Takes same position as Kerry.
B
Back to Iran. Bad form. Wants more cooperation. There again he kind of slid by the question. Yes it is a genocide. We can do this through the African Union provided we give them the logistical support...
"Back door draft taking palce today..."
More fever swamp stuff
B
Good question. Neutral. name the subject and back away. Cameras have been solid throughout. To Bush: Are there underlying character issues that you believe are serious enough to deny Bush doesn't take the bait. Starts with many compliments. But comes back to changing positions on Iraq. "You cannot lead if you send mixed messages. Mixed messages send the wrong signals to our troops, to our allies, to the Iraqi citizens. I admire his service, but I just know how this world works, and in the councils of government there must be certainty from the US president."
A
I appreciate the personal comments the president just made. Gracious back. Nice moment.
This issue of certainty..it is one thing to be certain, but don't be certain and be wrong. Take new facts and change and get the policy right. he's not acknowledging stem cell research global warming etc
A
"That's a loaded question.." said Bush. He's right Agree if you need to shift tactics, but I won't do is change my core values because of politic or because of pressure. You cannot wilt under that pressure
A
I have no intention of wilting...my position has been consistent...
Doesn't make sense.
D
If you are electeded, what's the single most serious threat We have increased funding for dealing with nuke proliferation. I agree that weapons of mass destruction in the hands of a terrorist network is the biggest threat. We began the proliferation security initiative. 60 nations involved. Effective. We busted A.Q. Khan. A proliferator. Libya disarmed.
Continue with missile defenses. We have a robust r&d program. Implementing it quickly. Kerry opposes missile defenses.
B
On re-ask: Nukes in hands of terrorist enemy
Big mistake to have bilateral talks with NK. China no longer involved. Must have China's leverage,
Nuclear proliferation. Unsecured nuclear material in Russia. Wrote a book about this. Is Kerry saying he foresaw the war against the terrorists? Too great a reach. Demands more money. Then on to North Korea. Blasts bunker busting nuclear weapons. It doesn't make sense? Again, the freeze is back! The US can't be trusted? I am going to shut that program down. It is the freeze. How stupid can you be?
F
On re-ask
The difference between us is North Korea's got more weapons, Iran is moving there. I am going to do it in 4 years
To Bush: Did you misjudge Putin Not ok to change democratic processes. Need checks and balances. He's sending a signal to US that perhaps he doesn't believe in checks and balamnces I have told them that. He's also an ally in the war on terror. That's the nature of the enemy which is what Putin understand. "I have a good relations with Vlaidmir, and that's important. I have told him my opinion, and I look forward to discussing it with him. Very important for the president to remidn him of the great benefits of democracy.I will continue working with him over the next four years."
Lehrer" He used the word truth again.
"I am a pretty calm guy. I don't take it personally. I don't hold it against him that he said "grave threat" and I don't go around the country saying he didn't tell the truth.
I watched that transition up close and personal, one of the first senators to go down into the KGB and see reams of files andsee names in them. I regret what's happened in these last months. Mr. Putin now controls all the televisions tatsions. His oppsoition is being jailed. We always have to stand up for democracy.
Back to China: Just because the president says it can't be done, doesn't mean it can't be done. We can have thos ebilateral talks and still get China.
Follow-Up: Kerry shifts away from WMD. "incredible mess in Iraq," it is not what the American people thought they were getting
Closing statement "If America shows uncertainty or weakness in this decade, the world will drift towards tragedy. That will not happen if I am president."
No draft. Stay on offense. We will fight the terroists around the world so we do not have t fight them at home. No veto on American foreign policy.
A
We both love this country very much. But we have a different set of conmvictions about making us stronger at home and respected at home. You want to know who can get your kids in Iraq home and get the job done. To other [parents: Let me look you in the eye and say to you I defended this country as a young man and I will defend it as president. I am not talking about leaving. I am talking about winning. A plan to win the war on terror. Re-warmed acceptance speech from Boston.
B-
Click link for thread and once on Hugh's site, select "Listen Online" from box in upper right corner, then choose station ie KRLA or 1170 from 8-9 EST (3rd) hour.
Precisely. Kerry and his band of metrosexual men now think they're "on the offensive," when it's really the final high speed run before hitting a brick wall. They've convinced themselves that they're turning the campaign around, when what they're feasting on, and trying to feed the electorate, is 'Rat poison. Let them follow their own delusions for the next four weeks.
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