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Did KERRY CHEAT in the debate? (vanity)
http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11266&start=616 ^ | closer

Posted on 10/02/2004 3:03:31 PM PDT by igoramus987

from link posted by closer on page 42...


from link
fyi, it is about 2:07 into the video at http://www.c-span.org/. The CSpan debate links are link1 or link2.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: bush; cheat; cheated; cheater; cheatsheet; debate; firstdebate; kerry; notes
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Some think that the item is a pen, some think it is paper. Can someone please investigate further and get a screen capture.

Any foreign object is illegal according to the debate rules, but if it is paper, especially if had notes on it, then that is cheating.

1 posted on 10/02/2004 3:03:31 PM PDT by igoramus987
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: igoramus987

Really, though, who cares? Democrat Party Operatives, even high level ones like John F'n Kerry and TheBentOne will get a free pass for their behaviour. They're Democrats, you see.


3 posted on 10/02/2004 3:06:34 PM PDT by Recovering_Democrat (I'm so glad to no longer be associated with the Party of Dependence on Government!)
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To: igoramus987

He always cheats. I mean that in a good way.


4 posted on 10/02/2004 3:10:10 PM PDT by IamJustright
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To: samtheman
Was he ever.

Read the questions that Lurch asked him. They are the most biased set of questions I have ever seen. Only hit Gores Strong points and constantly misquoted what Bush had said. Looks like Lurch only had time to go over the DNC talking points before the debate. Gore never once needed to correct an assumption made by Leher.

Lurch was also supposed to prepare the questions beforehand then use them but he obviously added one that really favored Gore.
5 posted on 10/02/2004 3:12:21 PM PDT by ImphClinton (Four More Years Go Bush)
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To: igoramus987

Ithink Bush was too prepared. Each time Bush was asked a question he would try to remember what his preparers told hiom to say, That isnt the way bush has to win, buish does much better when he is spontaneous.


6 posted on 10/02/2004 3:12:49 PM PDT by sgtbono2002 (I aint wrong, I aint sorry , and I am probably going to do it again.)
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To: ImphClinton

Gore?

Maybe you should re-write your post so we can know exactly what you mean.

If you're agreeing with me, great.

If not, you have to re-write and get rid of "Gore" so I know what you're talking about.


7 posted on 10/02/2004 3:14:02 PM PDT by samtheman (www.swiftvets.com)
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To: igoramus987

If any foreign object is is illegal it doesn't matter what he pulled out. A "pen" could hold notes as easily as notepaper. Hesure is writing a lot during the debate. Maybe copying things to be easier read?


8 posted on 10/02/2004 3:14:24 PM PDT by rdeat (Live free or die!)
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To: igoramus987

This is no big deal. If Bush had his act together he would have done better than he did. He didn't have his act together.

That's not the fault of a piece of paper Kerry might have had.

I am sad to report that when times are a little bit bad, some on our side begin resembling the worst of the other side. ;-)


9 posted on 10/02/2004 3:15:00 PM PDT by HitmanLV (I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.)
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To: igoramus987

He pulled something out, but I recorded in SLP mode and couldn't really tell what it was.


10 posted on 10/02/2004 3:17:28 PM PDT by KStorm ("Just so you know, I'm ashamed the filmmaker Michael Moore is from Michigan." - JazzX)
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To: JazzX
As part of the Debate Rules they should have required that both Candidates had to turn over their notes to the media.

Now, that would be fun to see.

11 posted on 10/02/2004 3:23:31 PM PDT by pete anderson
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To: samtheman
The ... campaign manager set him up

Why do you keep posting the same same same same thing in all the threads? At least add a bit of variety from thread to thread....

Why do you keep posting the same same same same thing in all the threads? At least add a bit of variety from thread to thread....

Why do you keep posting the same same same same thing in all the threads? At least add a bit of variety from thread to thread....

Why do you keep posting the same same same same thing in all the threads? At least add a bit of variety from thread to thread....

Why do you keep posting the same same same same thing in all the threads? At least add a bit of variety from thread to thread....

Why do you keep posting the same same same same thing in all the threads? At least add a bit of variety from thread to thread....

Why do you keep posting the same same same same thing in all the threads? At least add a bit of variety from thread to thread....

Why do you keep posting the same same same same thing in all the threads? At least add a bit of variety from thread to thread....

12 posted on 10/02/2004 3:23:41 PM PDT by Theo
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To: igoramus987

FWIW -- I watched the C-SPAN tape repeatedly and it looked like it could be paper...but that video is of very poor quality.

The FNC video is clearer -- using a highspeed connection -- and it looks more like it coulod be just a Pen.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134152,00.html

Click on part one.


13 posted on 10/02/2004 3:24:55 PM PDT by Jackson Brown
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To: Theo

The problem with the Republican campaign is they paid attention to podium lights and 32 pages of rules and DIDN'T PREP THE PREZ.

You're problem is you're focusing on where I'm posting but you're not thinking about the possibility that I'm right.

What if I'm right? If we here on FR don't raise our voices to the possibility of a setup, who will?


14 posted on 10/02/2004 3:25:16 PM PDT by samtheman (www.swiftvets.com)
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To: igoramus987
Yes Kerry cheated. Every time he said "go to my website" rather than stating his position he avoided having to answer specifically.

Additionally the content on Kerry's website changes with the day's news and response to his positions. For example you will no longer hear of MANDATORY "volunteer" service for ALL HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS to graduate. Sounds to much like a DRAFT type obligation.
15 posted on 10/02/2004 3:25:19 PM PDT by weegee (What's the provenance, Kenneth? Where did the forged SeeBS memo come from?)
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To: samtheman
The goddamn campaign manager set him up....

Why would the president's campaign manager set him up? He may have made a mistake in judgement by having the Pres. out and about with hurricane victims, but I think you're overstating the scenario.

16 posted on 10/02/2004 3:28:48 PM PDT by xkaydet65 (" You have never tasted freedom my friend, else you would know, it is purchased not with gold, but w)
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To: igoramus987

Is the Pope Catholic?


17 posted on 10/02/2004 3:29:57 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: xkaydet65

It was a rather big mistake. And a multiple mistake. Not just out in the hurricane but systematically under-prepped.

Why would Rove do it?

I don't know.

LET'S ASK HIM.

How do we go about doing that?


18 posted on 10/02/2004 3:30:58 PM PDT by samtheman (www.swiftvets.com)
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To: Theo; samtheman
The ... campaign manager set him up..

I'm getting tired of seeing that crap also.

SamtheMAN - take off your GD tinfoil hat.

Take a deep breath.

Stop with the crap, ok?

LVM

19 posted on 10/02/2004 3:31:38 PM PDT by LasVegasMac (John Kerry says he has changed his mind about all those NO votes in the Senate.)
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To: Theo

I will write 5000 times on the board...I will not cheat. I will not cheat.


20 posted on 10/02/2004 3:32:29 PM PDT by queenkathy
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To: samtheman
What if I'm right? If we here on FR don't raise our voices to the possibility of a setup, who will?

It was a setup and Kerry stepped right into it. Notice him mocking Bush the day after the debate. He was actually imitating Bush's voice: 'We don't want to wilt or waver,' " said Kerry, at times lowering his voice to a mocking tone.

From http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/nation/9816844.htm?1c. The media is trying to cover up for Kerry, I didn't see much coverage of this. But rest assured, the American people don't take their President being mocked. The koolaid drinkers ate it up of course, but they are a small minority, maybe 1/4 of the population.

21 posted on 10/02/2004 3:33:39 PM PDT by palmer (Solutions, not just slogans -JFKerry)
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To: igoramus987

IMO, the bigger issue is whether or not the Kerry campaign was fed the questions before the debate. Kerry seemed to know what was coming and his responses were too polished and, in some cases, segue'd right into the next question a little too neatly.

Has anyone dug into whether Lehrer clued Kerry in on the questions in advance?


22 posted on 10/02/2004 3:34:44 PM PDT by DustyMoment (Repeal CFR NOW!!)
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To: igoramus987

The notes? All designed to psych out the opponent. He's not really taking notes, it's just a prop or device to spook the opposition.

~Just like that tactic of walking so slowly that President Bush had to walk to him, and then not letting go of his hand during the handshake.

Mr. Bush needs a prop. I suggest using his body, hand gestures toward the Kerry, strong sort of pointing motion, using that gesture to hammer home whatever Kerry's adverse position is.


23 posted on 10/02/2004 3:36:12 PM PDT by OpusatFR (Let me repeat this: the web means never having to swill leftist garbage again. Got it?)
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To: igoramus987

Kerry "cheated" hmm? Well he did a pretty majorly poor job of it. Must not of seen these poll numbers.

And don't forget this from the CNN/Gallup poll. So who am I suppose to belive CNN/Gallup or Newsweek?

Kerry/Bush

Expressed himself more clearly 60%/32%
Had a good understanding of the issues 41%/41%
Agreed with you more on the issues you care about 46%/49% Was more believable 45%/50%
Was more likable 41%/48%
Demonstrated he is tough enough for the job 37%/54%

Gallup Poll post 1st 2004 Election Debate
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ..


Gee, if this is Kerry "winning" what is going to happen when he "loses" a debate?



24 posted on 10/02/2004 3:36:27 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Vote Bush 2004-We have the solutions, Kerry Democrats? Nothing but slogans)
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To: xkaydet65
I'm beginning to wonder a little about Karen Hughes ... she's the one that thought it was so "cute" to put the Bush girls up there in that embarrassing moment. Somebody let us down badly on this one, and with what we've all got riding on it, we'd better "fix" it pretty quickly.
25 posted on 10/02/2004 3:41:02 PM PDT by DHC-2
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To: igoramus987
HANOI KERRY
CLICK HERE TO SIGN FORM 180

BUSH DID

WHAT ARE YOU HIDING?
WHAT IS YOUR SECRET?
WHAT DON'T YOU WANT
AMERICA AND THE PRESS TO KNOW?


Free online version of
Kerry's "The New Soldier"
You can read it online right now.

26 posted on 10/02/2004 3:42:01 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (MAKE SURE YOU ARE CURRENTLY REGISTERED AND VOTE Nov 2nd!)
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To: igoramus987

Bush is a poker player. First you make the other player think he is better than you, then you take all of his money.

Let's watch what happens later on...


27 posted on 10/02/2004 3:42:32 PM PDT by OK
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To: igoramus987
If you check CSPAN, Kerry is shown taking his "notes" out of his breast pocket as he stepped behind his podium.

Check it again. You'll see Bush pulled out his own set of notes.

28 posted on 10/02/2004 3:42:59 PM PDT by Reagan Man (.....................................................The Choice is Clear....... Re-elect BUSH-CHENEY)
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To: igoramus987

Looks like a pen to me


29 posted on 10/02/2004 3:46:02 PM PDT by tonyinv (This message has been forged, but the contents are true....)
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To: igoramus987

it looks like they both signed something


30 posted on 10/02/2004 3:51:53 PM PDT by chemical_boy
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To: OK
Bush is a poker player. First you make the other player think he is better than you, then you take all of his money.

Let's watch what happens later on...


I have no doubt that Bush won the debate. In terms of style it was even. I don't see the frowns as a negative, it is just a real reaction to crap. If someone spews out crap which makes your job harder and puts US lives in danger you would be angry too. I wish the Bush team would put out this explanation. Kerry had his awkard moments too. This is just DNC spin.

In terms of substance, Bush beat Kerry. I think the strategy was to let allow Kerry to finally settle on a position in the debate, which the Bush team can attack in the future. The bonus is the "global test". Kerry is going to be nailed on this one. Also not knowing about sanctions in Iran, is a pretty bad blunder and wanting North Korea bilateral talks is illogical.
31 posted on 10/02/2004 3:52:41 PM PDT by igoramus987
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To: samtheman

In response to:
"The ...... campaign manager set him up."

Please refrain from taking our Lord's name in vain. One can debate a point or call attention to an individual without the use of profanity. Thank-you.


32 posted on 10/02/2004 3:55:36 PM PDT by Mustng959 (In loving memory of those that gave their all to preserve our Freedoms!)
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To: ImphClinton

Huh? You write Lurch as if you are referring to Lehrer, but Kerry is also known as Lurch.


33 posted on 10/02/2004 3:56:35 PM PDT by dougherty (I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free. - Michelangelo)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
I think Kerry cheated a few times.Bush just did not deliver the knock out punch and he could have on at least two occassions.I cannot figure out why.Now Newsweek is saying he lost the lead.Whoever advised Bush to spend the day visiting the hurricane victims made a colossal mistake.He appeared tired and not on the ball.The stakes are huge and now he has to play catch-up.I guess Moore and Streisand are dancing in the streets. Bush should have known he cannot be cavilier with Kerry and his cut throats.
34 posted on 10/02/2004 3:57:01 PM PDT by ricoshea (Reiily)
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To: Theo

I think he's just a troll... or he's off his meds...


35 posted on 10/02/2004 3:59:29 PM PDT by DanTheAdmin
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To: DustyMoment
If you analyze the "questions" you will see Kerry was asked to state his position on an issue and really didn't have to answer a specific question.

Bush on the other hand was typically asked to defend a position that was described using pejorative terms.

There was definitely a bias in the questions asked by a "star" of the Media Wing of the DNC.

36 posted on 10/02/2004 4:04:58 PM PDT by Paladin2 (SeeBS News - We Decide, We Create, We Report - In that order!)
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To: Paladin2

I agree that the "Media Star" was biased beyond belief, however, I think that your reply is proof enough that Kerry was fed the questions in advance. Kerry would have to have more time than was available during the debate to develop a position on any of the topics covered during the debates.


37 posted on 10/02/2004 4:19:10 PM PDT by DustyMoment (Repeal CFR NOW!!)
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To: igoramus987
Today I mailed out the following letter to the President:

Oh, how I wished I was the President in that first debate last Thursday!!

I would have blown Senator Kerry out of the water many times. What happened to Mr. Bush?

Whoever prepared him for that debate must be fired from his job now!

While I watched the debate I literally blew a fuse over the subjects of North Korea and Iran!!!!

The President should have replied to Senator Kerry something like this:

So you would give nuclear fuel to Iran? Your people tried that with North Korea 10 years ago. President Carter, Madeline Albright and my predecessor thought they had a deal with North Korea,

but they were

snookered

real good.

And now North Korea has atomic bombs and the threats to go with them. We've learned from that amateur mistake. And you would make that same mistake again?

The American people will not allow that to happen this time!

And the Bunker Buster bombs? Just like all the other weapons systems Kerry voted against And how about bring up the UN "oil for food" scandal??

Why bring in the UN when it was the crooks there who were stealing food and medicine from the poor starving children in Iraq.

Why did the President not bash the French, Germans and Russians for having sweetheart deals with Saddam Hussein that dwarfed anything Halliburton gets?

Remember, the President is the American people. He represents us.

Tell it!

Now we have the next debate looming only a week away. Who is helping the President prepare for this one?

I hope it's not the same dope who helped last time!!

I know the subject of outsourcing jobs will come up. I hope the President knows that there were millions of jobs outsourced during the Clinton years. That's when the trend really took off. The economy in those years fared all right. Also let it be known that Europe and Japan outsource jobs to America. It's a world economy now.

Senator Kerry never took that bridge to the 21st century. He's stuck fighting Vietnam all over again. That's very dangerous to mistake Iraq for Vietnam.

And he's stuck in the 20th century when it comes to economics.

Please help my president do better in the next two debates. His policies are working.

There is no excuse for him not to be tuned in and ready to parry Senator Kerry's attacks.

Kerry is a good debater, but he argued losing positions every time and the President was too tired, zoned out or just plain lazy to counter him.

I'm just an average American.

Just prayer alone won't help my president.

Let him use his natural "down home" humor. Kerry is an empty suit with a big mouth. He bullied the President last time.

Don't let it happen again, please!!!!

As for all those TV talking head nitwits............

It is unfortunate when people confuse relentlessly negative critical comments as intellectual sophistication. Kerry was AWOL for 20 years in the US Senate. He has been on the anti-American side of nearly every important issue for 30 years.

Are all your experts asleep at the switch over there?

38 posted on 10/02/2004 4:24:54 PM PDT by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN (Anybody but Kerry!!)
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To: igoramus987

I'd bet that the Bush team never expected the democrats would honor more than half the points they agreed to. For a democrat, that's actually a pretty good compliance rate.


39 posted on 10/02/2004 4:49:05 PM PDT by Bonaparte (twisting slowly, slowly in the wind...)
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To: igoramus987
it wouldn't take much to print out the answers in certain places on the paper in invisible ink that when he gets on stage he writes over that spot with a magic marker that reveals the answer???

my wife took a couple home tests where only the right answer turned green so when you sent in the books they could grade them. if only the right answer was highlighted it was right, but by the number of wrong colors they could tell how many times it took you to get he right answer.

40 posted on 10/02/2004 4:55:37 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist )
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To: igoramus987

No this was clearly a debate on sKerry's strongest issue. Most pundits have said over the past couple of days. This was Bush's strongpoint durring the 1st debate and the 2nd Debate will be on Domestics suposedly sKerry's strong issue. Based on Bush's speach in PA on Friday. He will do better on Domestic issues. Debate one sKerry has been preparing for since 1971 as a Anti War dove.

Dont worry.


41 posted on 10/02/2004 4:57:26 PM PDT by bensdaddy
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To: Brilliant
[ Is the Pope Catholic? ]

NO.. The pope is Roman Catholic and thats NOT universal..
Catholic = Universal..

42 posted on 10/02/2004 5:09:36 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: igoramus987

Did Kerry cheat? Do bears sh*t in the woods?

He cheats every time he breathes. Waste of food and oxygen, that's Kerry.


43 posted on 10/02/2004 5:09:53 PM PDT by buffyt (You don't create terrorists by fighting back. You defeat the terrorists by fighting back. ~GWBush~)
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To: igoramus987

Bringing this up will not further our cause in any way. Even when you are right, people do not like whiners.


44 posted on 10/02/2004 5:13:56 PM PDT by Clump
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To: CROSSHIGHWAYMAN

Fired from HIS job? I think HER job.


45 posted on 10/02/2004 5:40:52 PM PDT by DHC-2
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To: Theo

Thanks. The moderator set W up not the CAMPAIGN MANAGER!


46 posted on 10/02/2004 5:43:11 PM PDT by torchthemummy (Florida 2000: There Would Have Been No 5-4 Without A 7-2)
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To: JazzX

I recorded on my DVR and it is unquestionable a piece of paper. He unfolds the paper, actually switching it around so as to unfold it in the correct direction.

And W unquestionably does not.

Now this really pisses me off!


47 posted on 10/02/2004 5:50:42 PM PDT by torchthemummy (Florida 2000: There Would Have Been No 5-4 Without A 7-2)
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To: chemical_boy

It is clear for me - both were prepped to "prime" their writing utensil - but again Kerry definitely had a piece of paper and unfolded it.

That be cheatin'!


48 posted on 10/02/2004 5:54:50 PM PDT by torchthemummy (Florida 2000: There Would Have Been No 5-4 Without A 7-2)
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To: igoramus987
He also cheated by going into an extra inning on the Iran question before he answered the question he was supposed to answer. So then Bush rebutted the extra rebuttal--I was so glad he did.

And all of this took place after Kerry made some totally obnoxious remark about "Let's break all the rules," when Bush wasn't breaking the rules at all, just requesting the extra 30 seconds that it was the moderator's prerogative to grant. Kerry got a nice little hum from the audience at this "joke," even though they were supposed to remain silent.

This stuff may seem picayune and petty, but it's really not.

49 posted on 10/02/2004 5:57:09 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: torchthemummy
I recorded on my DVR and it is unquestionable a piece of paper. He unfolds the paper, actually switching it around so as to unfold it in the correct direction.

And W unquestionably does not.

Now this really pisses me off!


Why would he have to change to switch it around if it was blank? Mmmm. Maybe so what was written on it was not upside down and easily readable.

To the argument that no one likes whingers. Well no one likes cheaters. If an athelete takes illegal drugs to enhance their performance, that is cheating. Cheating shows bad character.
50 posted on 10/02/2004 6:10:29 PM PDT by igoramus987
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