Kofi better pack a big lunch.
Posted on 10/03/2004 10:32:19 AM PDT by mojito
Bump.
The report largely implicates France and Russia, whom Saddam Hussein targeted as he sought support on the UN Security Council before the Iraq war. Both countries were influential voices against UN-backed action.
No more UN for US-list
If people want on or off this list, please let me know.
Thanks for the ping!
Any percentage of the German GDP is significant when it is in one's pocket.
BTW, it's not just the ILLEGAL deals that profited those who supported the regime. If you do your homework you'll find that the system was set up so Saddam could use the UN rules to effectively buy off anyone he wanted without breaking them. That fact doesn't make it any more reasonable for those who benefited from Saddam's terrorist regime to have done so (at US taxpayers' expense) or to have thwarted our efforts to end it.
You´re distracting. Answer my questions or try to find fact-founded arguments for your claim that the German government was bought by Saddam. I doubt you can do that and I think you merely included Germany in your list of countries which had real economic reasons to keep Saddam because it was so easy. It is beyond most of you that people can oppose war just because it is war. I will not say that Schröder was such a great man that he predicted what would happen after May 1st 2003 (nobody could), but it was opportunistic pacifism and nothing else that led to the German opposition to that war.
WHAT???????????????????
Jounalists are implicated in this scandal???
What journalists- I want NAMES! Wonder if American press members are in on this?? (Truthfully, a few come to mind!)
I never said Germany was bought by Saddam, or at least never intended to. What I said was Germany was bought for Saddam by German businessmen who were profiting from dealing with Saddam. Sorry that nuance was lost on you. You must have been distracted.
I strongly suspect the journalists involved are of the Al Jazeera and Eurotrash varieties.
This is equally ridiculous. Come on, gimme the stats. How much money was involved and relate this to the German economy! When you claim that a German Federal Government has been corrupt, you have obvious no idea of German politics.
It's got nothing to do with the economy of the country and everything to do with the economy of the individuals and corporations benefiting from it. Do you seriously expect me to believe German politicians are any less susceptible to the influence of wealthy friends and supporters than are politicians in virtually every other democratic country on the planet? Sell that story somewhere else.
Since you're playing Don Quixote today, here's one story about one German company that made chemical/bio weapons technology that ended up in Saddam's hands:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,70639,00.html
Excerpts:
Aerosil, made by the German chemical company Degussa AG....
Iraqi scientists know how to make chemical weapons that can penetrate military protective clothing, and Iraq imported up to 25 metric tons last month of a powder that is a crucial ingredient to such "dusty" weapons.
Iraq told the United Nations the powder was destined for a pharmaceutical company that a former weapons inspector says was ordered by President Saddam Hussein before the 1991 Persian Gulf War to work on chemical and biological weapons.
The powder, sold under the brand name Aerosil, has particles so small that, when coated with deadly poisons, they can pass through the tiniest gaps in protective suits.
Do some research on your own, now. Use Google and search on 'oil for food' and the word 'German'.
I´m everyday Don Quichote on FR. I am where my country is slammed on dubious/unjustified reasons, and I do not leave because I believe in the minds of y´all.
I know what comes as the results when searching for "oil for food german" - reports about the legal exports to Iraq on basis of the oil for food program of the UN. I may remind you that the contribution of Germany was minimal and that my country was not involved in the oil-for-food-scandal, unlike France and Russia who both had contracts with Iraq worth billions of Dollars.
You posted a nice excerpt of an article. Unfortunately, it does say that the chemical substances could have been used for pharmaceutical purposes. If you´re going to tell me, that it was used for chemical weapons of mass destruction, you gotta show me those WMD first. I´m terribly sorry pal, I was also convinced of the existance of these weapons, but I´m sure as h-ll that my administration is clean.
Oh, so you're happy because your country was only a little corrupt? Good on ya'. Or were you referring to your contribution to keeping a lid on Saddam and enforcing UN sanctions as being minimal? Good on ya' again, but it wasn't minimal it was none.
You posted a nice excerpt of an article. Unfortunately, it does say that the chemical substances could have been used for pharmaceutical purposes. If you´re going to tell me, that it was used for chemical weapons of mass destruction, you gotta show me those WMD first.
I never said it was used in WMD, merely posted an article that said a) they were doing business with Saddam, and that b) they sold dual-use technology.
Keep digging.
You are very welcome. :)
Pardon, you fail to draw the line between facts and rumors. Germany´s trade with Iraq was minimal, not even worthy to consider it influential on Germanys foreign policy. Trade with China is so important that it affects our foreign policy (-> we deal with people who daily violate human rights), but Iraq was and is not a influential trade partner of Germany.
Now that you admit that the sold substances was for dual-use, and it was legal, what´s your take? Why do you bother? You cannot prove that it was used for WMD, you cannot even say that these sales were illegal (although I note, that there have been illegal sales, but those were not approved by the Government and the State prosecutes those businessmen). Germany was not part of the oil-for-food scandal, and it was not recipient of Iraqi oil. So, why do you continue to claim that Germany was bought (directly or indirectly) by Saddam? You can check the annual reports of the parties finances, neither the governing Greens nor the ruling SPD have received contributions of the industry that sold things to Iraq. I know it must be hard for you to face the truth, that Germany is not the evil and corrupt country you would like us to be. It was pure opportunistic pacifism which led to the Iraq war opposition, nothing else. And if you still continue to spread your lies even though you should know better by now, I cannot take you for serious.
Farewell,
Michael
Caps off please. We would have gotten it without the caps. Thanks.
In the 80's, we more or less ran the UN. Now, Russia, China and France run the UN. Glad we act unilaterally and not let the greed effect our national security. Way to go Bush! Love you more and more man.
Never said Germany was evil (not since we deposed Hitler for you, anyway). And I never will. I was born in Frankfurt on the first of my father's two tours in Germany and lived there again a few years later. I was a German citizen until I renounced my German citizenship when I took my commission in the Army (a precondition of accepting that commission). I served there for 3 1/2 years as a Lieutenant to protect you from those who live on the other side of what used to be the iron curtain. I have been back on two occasions in the last year and a half and will return again at least twice next year. My mother-in-law is a German emigre (which makes my wife at least half German). I truly like and respect the individual German citizens I've dealt with.
Nevertheless, your country has not been much of an ally since the wall came down and many of your companies and politicians most certainly did benefit from Oil-For-Food, legally or otherwise. I'm glad of the help your country has given in Afghanistan, but when asked for additional support during the election season, you turned Afghanistan's new government down (not to mention ours).
Be a better ally and maybe folks won't look so much at your faults (no matter how minor) and will start looking at what you do with us in a better light.
BTW, nothing I've said is a lie. I do like your term 'opportunistic pacifism', though. It quite well describes your failure to support your allies (us, for instance, NATO for another). And just in case you didn't understand your own nuance, neither of those words have particularly good connotations in this country or in this forum in particular.
Kofi better pack a big lunch.
That stinks! The bums!
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