An Israeli journalist looks at the wreckage of a car believed to be one of those used in the bombing of the Hilton Hotel in Taba, Egypt, Friday, Oct.8, 2004, where an explosion Thursday night killed at least 27 Israelis.
Posted on 10/07/2004 1:29:18 PM PDT by yonif
I was lurking, but I have to answer your posts. My husband is sleep already, it's too bad, as he has been reading and studying the Koran for some time now and knows it better than I do.
When you say that you can't blame an entire religion for the actions of a few sick individuals, you have it backwards, you can't blame all Muslim peoples for the teachings of a sick religion.
These animals as you put it that are taking part in the numerous Jihads are true followers of Allah and Muhammed and the civilized ones that are living peacefully with the Israelis and in other parts of the world are not true followers in the complete sense.
The most respected Islamic sources, the Qur’an, the Hadith of al-Bukhari, the biography of Ibn Ishaq, and the history of al-Tabari paint a portrait of Muhammad that is different from what we’re being told.
Qur’an 47:4 “When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.”
From the Hadith: “Allah’s Apostle has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us a tribute [tax]. Our Prophet informed us that Allah says, ‘Whomever among us is martyred shall go to paradise to lead a luxurious life beyond imagination, and whoever among us survives the battle shall become your master.” Or, “I heard the Prophet saying, ‘Jihad will bring about either a reward in the hereafter or booty in this world.” Civilized people are willing to comdemn Hitler and Nazism as well as Stalin and Communism as bad but not when it comes to Muhammad and Islam even though the factual evidence is equally comdemning.
I would recommend that you study the Koran and the other Islam texts, I can suggest other materials to read if you are interested.
Yonif says, Israeli Arabs are continued to be "Palestinianized" each and every year. Militant Islam is moving through their ranks.
Kahane warned about this years ago.
you said: The blame should be put squarely on the shoulders of those that are carrying out these acts.
>Who do you think plans, authorizes, and funds these attacks? The bedouins of the Sinai peninsula? are you really this ignorant or are you an apologist? Follow the $$$$$$ and youll find the culprit!!!
Real world response:
Goodwin's law does not apply when dealing with genocidal behavior against Jews.
This attack was carried out by members of a group formed from the Muslim Brotherhood.
I close on my house today and when I get home, I am hoping that Israel has responded BIG TIME!
Thank you for the verification. I corrected myself on #361.
I am curious how many Muslims you know? Do you talk to them about what you are reading to find out what their opinion is? I have read more than my share of books about Islam and the Koran and if I based everything I know about Muslims just off of thoses texts, I would have a pretty bleak view also. Knowledge does not equal wisdom.
Thank you for agreeing that only a minority of the Arabs in Israel currently feel this way. Of course, I have no doubt that these numbers are growing. The issue is what to do about it. Considering the number of Arabs living inside of Israel proper (IIRC, the number is close to 20% of the population), this is much more of a doomsday situation for Israel than what is happening in Gaza and the West Bank. Does Israel embrace these people and use them as part of the solution or isolate them? It is very easy to blame the 'other guy' without looking also at ourselves. What has changed so radically in the past 10 years to bring about this situation?
I think only an excorcism or radiotherapy will cure that infestation.
Debka:
October: Friday, October 8, on the morning after an terrorist bombing rampage at three idyllic Sinai desert resorts – with two dozen known dead and scores still missing – the first clues have been found to the identities of the hands behind the massacre and their targets. DEBKAfile’s intelligence and counter-terror sources report that the explosives used to tear away the entire frontage of the Taba Hilton and hit the Nueiba oasis campside further south on the Red Sea coast were of Iranian manufacture; the same make as the bombs used in the 1996 Khobar Towers blast and he 2003 Istanbul attacks.
Egyptian intelligence investigators are working on the same premise as their Israeli counterparts that a Hizballah cell based in Sinai rigged the four bomb cars and by mid-September had them ready for Thursday’s multiple strike. Two were reserved for the 10-storey Taba Hilton, where bodies are still being dug out of the rubble.
Intelligence of suggestive Hizballah movements prompted the counter-terror center at the Israeli prime minister’s office to warn Israeli travelers on the eve of the Jewish New Year to miss out on their favorite holiday sites in Sinai. Nonetheless, 15,000 Israelis were trapped there Thursday night.
(The Hizballah’s Sinai cell is part of the Palestinian international weapons smuggling network that has grown out of the Sinai-Gaza tunnel system and which now branches out to East Africa, Arabia, the Persian Gulf, Syria, Turkey and Chechnya.)
Two of the four bomb cars have been identified as “Ramses,” an Egyptian version of the Fiat. They were kept hidden in caves and wadis around the Sinai desert in waiting for the suicide bombers. Another Egyptian intelligence premise is that between 4 and 6 bombers activated the death cars, arriving one or two days earlier by one of two routes - from Sudan or from Saudi Arabia via Sudan. They would have reached the Egyptian Red Sea port of Gardaka and taken a regular ferry to Sharm el-Sheikh. Disembarking passengers are only lightly searched as Egypt has no wish to hurt its tourist trade. The other possibility is that the bombers crossed the Red Sea from Saudi Arabia and arrived at the Sharm el-Sheikh marina aboard a Saudi yacht, knowing the Egyptians would never search it.
A few hours later, they would have been picked up and driven to the hidden bomb cars by Hizballah operatives.
Friday's Casualty Figures.
Updated interim casualty figures from terrorist attacks on three Sinai resorts Thursday night: Total number of dead estimated at 28 including 14 Israelis and 6 Egyptians. Others will be identified by DNA testing. Six bodies transferred to Israel thus far. Of the 142 known Israeli wounded, 126 were taken to Eilat hospital and 16 to Beersheba. Six thousand Israeli trippers are still in Sinai of the 15,000 at the time of the attacks. No contact has been established with 250. At the ravaged 10-storey Taba Hilton, 70 Israeli rescue teams with heavy equipment are burrowing in the rubble for survivors alongside Egyptian teams. Altogether 200 Israeli aid and rescue personnel operating now in Sinai.
Part II coming soon.
Sorry for the delay in replying to your post, I was away.
I won't tell you that some of my best friends are Muslims, but I have known a few here in the USA and the ones my son knew were very nice to him and he liked them very much.
I think you missed my point, my problem is with the teachings of Islam. The terrorists have not corrupted their religion, Islam corrupted them.
True followers of Islam or Muslim militants, those known and referred to as Islamic Jihad, Hamas, al-Qaeda, Jemaah Islamiyah, Hezbollah, the PLO, Black September, Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade, and the Muslim Brotherhood are thought about in the terms you yourself used, "animals" but no one seems to look for the source of their hatred and what drives them to act the way they do. These people study and follow the words and deeds of Muhammad, Allahs prophet and messenger as they are presented by the Koran, Tabari, Ishaq, and Bukhari.
The first four generations following Muhammad's death were some of the most barbaric peoples the world has ever known. But eventually, the once peaceful Arabs before Islam, became peaceful again. After 4 generations they lost their passion for their prophet's orders to fight jihad. The hundred years that followed was Islam's one bright moment in its 1400 year history. But then something terrible happened in Baghdad, the capital of the Islamic world. Hisham published Ishaq's Sira. Bukhari published his Hadith Collection. The Qur'an was written and distributed. Once again, Muslims were confronted by the hateful, covetous, and violent words of their prophet and god. They ceased being tolerant to their victims and ceased being productive as a culture. As to all the billions that follow Islam, in societies that are not free, the penalty for speaking out against Islam or Muhammad even today is truly severe. Where are the Islamic states with a free press, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, or even freedom of thought? Islamic studies dominate these state's education, the citizens of these states are indoctrinated, the Islamic war teachings are preached to them in every mosque as well as by the state controlled media, terrorists are portrayed as martyrs and idolized and the inductors of these terrorist use them to encourage the young to follow their path.
The older generation of Muslims don't know any better. They follow the ritual, are accustomed to being told what to think and do with very little outside information, questioners and outspoken independent thinkers are forced to submit or die. The younger generations are being indoctrinated from birth by different Islamic sources to be violent fundamentalist, this is what they learn in school, what they hear in the mosques and in street rallies and from militants who they have been taught to admire.
While there are plenty of Muslims who may be good and may not desire to hurt anyone, they are irrelevant if they do not denounce and renounce the teachings of Islam. If they don't accept all the doctrines of Islam as taught in the Koran and all the other texts I have quoted, then they are not true Muslims and I don't think any Islamic cleric will disagree with me. These "good" Muslims are thought of as "bad" by true followers of Islam.
An Israeli journalist looks at the wreckage of a car believed to be one of those used in the bombing of the Hilton Hotel in Taba, Egypt, Friday, Oct.8, 2004, where an explosion Thursday night killed at least 27 Israelis.
This is very obvious with Iraq. Iraq was a secular government. Why was "God is Great" added to the Iraqi Flag in 1991? Did the government have a great religious conversion? No, it was done to further political goals. Saddam is still using Islam. Look at his dress when he was brought to court in Iraq. He is deliberately adopting a 'Muslim' look to gain sympathy. This is something he never had before. Why are the beheadings taking place in Iraq? If it was for religious reasons, they would not be demanding ransoms. They would not be offering payments to common folk to attack US soldiers. This is all about using religion to further political goals.
I have read enough of the Koran to know it is not for me. The same can be said about portions of the Bible and the Torah. Everything can be taken out of context and used as someone sees fit. Islam does not have a monopoly on hate. The difference between Christianity and Islam at this point is Islam is being actively used by people in positions of power, many secular, to further their political will. This has been done in the past with Christianity also and it can be argued that it is still happening in places. (I do not wish to get into a debate on the history of Christianity or Judaism.)
For me, this all boils down to the question, why are mainstream Arabs living inside of Israel not blowing themselves up like the suicide bombers? It is definately not because of a lack of ability or materials. I am not an expert on Israel, but my guess is because they don't suffer the same desperation that those in Gaza do.
In Thailand you have problems in the south with Muslim terrorists. The provinces in question are also some of the poorest areas in Thailand. They feel that they are ignored by the government because they do not fit into 'normal' Thai Buddhist society. There are also Muslims in other provinces in Thailand that do not resort to terrorism. Again, why?
It is much easier to blame Islam than it is to try to find the real causes of the problems. It is also easier to say that a bomb will fix problems that can only be fixed through education and the removal of poverty. Yes, war is 100% necessary and some people do need to die for there to be peace. The problem is it is only part of the solution.
I agree.
This is "Peace" with Egypt? Screw 'em. Reoccupy Sinai. Carpet bomb Cairo.
Why don't you read this, and get back to us--
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