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'The Beast' movie: Jesus didn't exist; Former Christian director's secretive film
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Tuesday, October 12, 2004 | Ron Strom

Posted on 10/12/2004 2:54:10 AM PDT by JohnHuang2

A movie whose purpose is to prove that Jesus Christ never existed and that demonizes Christian fundamentalists is scheduled to open on June 6, 2006 – that is, 06-06-06, the "666" biblical mark of the Beast.

Directed by Brian Flemming, who is described on the film's website as a "former fundamentalist Christian," "The Beast" promises to spread the theory he claims is "gaining credibility among scholars" – that Jesus was made up out of thin air.

"The authors of the Gospels, writing 40 to 90 years after the supposed life of Christ, never intended for their works to be read as biographies. There are no credible non-Christian references to Christ during the period in which he is said to have lived," states the film's site.

Currently in pre-production, the film's cast and crew are "legally sworn to secrecy," the promotional site says.

Here's how the film's promoters describe its plot:

When her father, a biblical scholar, mysteriously disappears, a Christian high-school student named Danielle investigates. She discovers that he had stumbled across a cover-up of Christianity's best-kept secret: that Jesus Christ never existed.

Now that she possesses proof of this dangerous fact, Danielle must confront two strong forces: a band of fundamentalist Christians who will stop at nothing to suppress the truth, and her own desire for Jesus Christ to be real.

Diving into factual territory well-explored by scholars but largely hidden from the view of the public, "The Beast" is an epic story of innocence lost, faith in crisis and the astonishing power of the truth to survive.

On the trailer, which is viewable on the film's site, ominous music plays while these words flash across the screen: "Centuries ago, a legend was invented… forgery … fraud … coercion … wealth … greed … torture … murder … war … gave it the power to dominate the world." The words are displayed on a background of a painting of Christ's face.

The producers offer a newsletter for those interested in following the making of the movie.

Fleming is touted on the film's website as "internationally acclaimed."

States the site: "Flemming's work has been called 'a parallel universe' by the BBC, 'jaggedly imaginative' by the New York Times, and 'immensely satisfying' by USA Today. The Fox News Channel dubbed him 'a young Oliver Stone.' Flemming won the New York Times Claiborne Pell Award for Original Vision for his groundbreaking feature film 'Nothing So Strange,' which was released theatrically in 2003 and is currently distributed on DVD in more than 200 countries."

Supporters of the film have participated in a discussion forum on the site.

Says one excited poster: "I must say, I highly commend this director for his immense courage on putting something like this out!! The fact that he has the courage to put out a movie about the possibility of Christ never existing after all the controversy surrounding a movie about the LIFE of Christ (well death really) is just amazing!!

"Mad Kudos (and thanks) to EVERYONE involved in the making of this movie and good luck in handling all the 'adverse' reactions!!"

Another participant enthused, "I'm so excited! I can't wait until it's released! This is DEFINITELY the age of Aquarius!!"

Greg Koukl is head of Stand to Reason, a Christian apologetics organization. He says this kind of story line is not unusual among books and movies.

"It always turns out that fundamentalist Christians are the bad guys," he told WorldNetDaily.

"The problem with this is the evidence they draw from is always out on the fringes of academic scholarship" – evidence, he says, that is not even used by the leaders of the leftist Jesus Seminar.

Koukl noted historians that have no affinity for fundamentalist Christianity certainly write about Jesus and his impact on history.

"Nobody is trying to explain the indelible mark of Jesus of Nazareth on history by saying he never existed," he said. "That's way beyond the pale. No credible historian would make that claim. … It's a bizarre statement from an academic perspective."

Koukl wonders what motive anyone would have to invent Jesus and then "fool everybody."

He dismisses "The Beast" promoters' argument that because no non-Christian accounts of Jesus exist from the time of his life, he must be a fictional character.

"It may be the case that only Caesar wrote about the Gaelic wars," he explained, "but just because there are no other writing about the Gaelic wars doesn't mean we can't trust Caesar," mentioning the four Gospels are themselves four separate accounts of Christ's life.

He mentioned there are a "number of historical references to Christ outside Christianity, which buttress the fact he did exist."

Ted Baehr, founder and publisher of MovieGuide and chairman of the Christian Film & Television Commission, predicts "The Beast" will bomb with American moviegoers.

"Generally, these movies do very poorly at the box office," he told WND. "'Saved!' which had a lot of publicity, did about $6 million at the box office. … That's pitiful."

Baehr said bringing the film's contentions into the light of day in the media works well to expose the agenda of its promoters.

"The way you pull the teeth of a false argument is bring up the argument first and show that it's frivolous and fallacious," he said. "Of course it's frivolous. The original apostles wouldn't have gone to their death for Jesus if they didn't believe he was real."

Baehr said, "There is a small group of teenagers who will see ['The Beast'] who will be convinced it is the truth. … It will have an impact on a susceptible few."

One of the film's producers, Amanda Jackson, was contacted for this story but did not respond by press time.




TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: fundies; getagrip; movies; stupidfundies; thebeast
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To: wimpycat
IIRC, the only earliest copies of Caesar's writings were made by...Christian monks.

Probably not, considering the Commentaries were written more than 50 years before Christ and references to its contents are made by numerous classical authors. This would imply numerous copies long before the monks came along (this was a fairly common practice).

Hell, classical scholars have been able to recreate whole sections of "lost works" because they were referred to by contemporary authors. In the case of the Commentaries, however, dozens of copies exist going back to around the time the originals were written.

51 posted on 10/12/2004 3:50:36 AM PDT by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: JohnHuang2
Anything for a buck.
My own opinion, for what it is worth:
"The authors of the Gospels, writing 40 to 90 years after the supposed life of Christ, never intended for their works to be read as biographies. There are no credible non-Christian references to Christ during the period in which he is said to have lived," states the film's site.

True, the writers of the Gospels were not writing history or biography but religious philosophy.
There are no credible references, but why would there be? If today we had to use a quill pen and ink that we made ourselves (and often the paper), how many of us would be in the historical record? At the time The Christ lived he was seen as nothing more than another rabble rousing itinerate preacher – hardly worthy of the effort by the ruling elite required to document him.

Let me first say that I am not a CHRISTIAN!!!, as the term is often used today.
I have no doubt that there was a man named Yeshua Ben Joseph born to Mary and Joseph, a carpenter in the area of Nazareth in Judea.
I have no doubt that he became an itinerate preacher. It would appear that he preached that simply obeying the letter of the Law was not enough, but that religion was in your heart, and not your actions alone. This was contrary to the line espoused by the ruling Jewish elite and would have aroused their ire. The Romans were having enough trouble with the people because of their numerous rebellions, and would not have looked on him with any favor – particularly if he refused to acknowledge the divinity of Caesar.
Due to political concerns it is quite reasonable to believe that the Roman governor would have appeased the Temple Priests and crucified him.
Without the intervention of Paul the Christ movement would have remained a minor Jewish sect. Paul was educated in the Greeko-Roman manner, was a Roman citizen, a bureaucrat and knew how to get things moving. Paul is not one of my favorite Christian writers, and I personally dislike much of what he interjected into Christianity – but without him the message of The Christ would not have survived.
As I look over this, and think of the origin and spread of Christianity I can find nothing that does not fit into historical perspective. I see no reason to doubt His existence. I see no reason to believe a group of power hungry people gathered together to formulate a new religion - an action that would not have generated any wealth or power for decades if not centuries.

52 posted on 10/12/2004 3:51:43 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: laconic
If Christ was just a figment of Paul's imagination (as some revisionists have alleged), then why are people like this so-called director so obsessed with disproving His existance? BTW, Tacitus also mentions Jesus as a historical figure (In writing about the rise of Christianity, which he considered an evil cult.)
53 posted on 10/12/2004 3:52:42 AM PDT by WestVirginiaRebel (Whose side would you rather be on? The Moon god worshippers, or people who've been to the Moon?)
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To: CourtneyLeigh; kstewskis; Victoria Delsoul; Raquel; NYer; narses
This is something...

Even if the movie perports Jesus never existed, ergo there is no God, then how do they explain the Old Testament?

54 posted on 10/12/2004 3:52:57 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier!)
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To: JohnHuang2
"Centuries ago, a legend was invented… forgery … fraud … coercion … wealth … greed … torture … murder … war … gave it the power to dominate the world."

Hmmmm, sounds like islam to me.

55 posted on 10/12/2004 3:54:09 AM PDT by newfreep
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Comment #56 Removed by Moderator

To: JohnHuang2
I highly commend this director for his immense courage on putting something like this out!!

Real courage - Christians might do something drastic like... complain!

Real courage would be making a similar movie exposing Islam and its founder Mohammed!

I know I'm dreaming but what I'd like to see is Christians to totally ignore this movie as irrelevent (which it is).

57 posted on 10/12/2004 3:55:20 AM PDT by rockprof
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To: LadyDoc
They are talking as if they found pontius pilate's hard drive with a list of the thousands of people he had crucified, and Jesus wasn't on it

Funny you should mention it -- I heard CBS has just been given exactly this and is planning an expose ....

58 posted on 10/12/2004 3:55:30 AM PDT by sphinx
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To: Bob_Dobbs

There are other references. I believe the gnostic "Gospel of Thomas" has been found in a couple of different sites, virtually identical, owned by different if not competing ministries of the time, and all dated not much later than the very first part of the second century AD.

It would profit no one to go to some sect at the time and promote Christ's teachings, death and resurrection, unless that person was a first hand witness, or had very close intimate contact with first hand witnesses or the apostles themselves.

The widespread acknowledgement that there was a man named Christ who had been put to death by the Romans by almost all of the religious communities of the day is very compelling evidence indeed.


59 posted on 10/12/2004 3:57:19 AM PDT by djf
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To: Bob_Dobbs

The Gospels were not intended to be an accurate history, but religious philosophy.


60 posted on 10/12/2004 3:57:40 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: R. Scott
The Gospels were not intended to be an accurate history, but religious philosophy.

If it's only philosophy, then how do explain the aramaic words of Christ only with His Disciples being written down on paper years later.

When Only His Immediate Disciples did He speak this language to? And anyone from those 11 that wrote anything down, would be an accurate testification to that historical event/relationship.

61 posted on 10/12/2004 4:00:48 AM PDT by CourtneyLeigh (Why can't all of America be Commonwealth?)
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To: R. Scott
The Gospels were not intended to be an accurate history, but religious philosophy.

They need to be historically accurate about the Resurection or the rest is a pious fraud.

62 posted on 10/12/2004 4:02:13 AM PDT by sphinx
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To: JohnHuang2; All

MORE SKERRY BACKERS' PUPPET MASTER

IDIOCY, SOUNDS LIKE, to me. I see this as another demonic attack on Christianity, the Church and Western civilization as we have known it. These people don't wake up on a Monday morning and decide to lose their minds and souls as an alternative to jogging around the block.

We are in a fierce battle for souls, for our nation, planet and in a sense all creation. Soros and company are driven by demonic forces which have deluded some very controlling megabucks folks into thinking that satan is going to win at Armageddon.

I wonder if there's Soros money in this project. Sounds like something dear to his heart.

God will deal with them all in short order when it suits Him. Until then, we have to put up with the eventual Nazi gestapo tactics of those who agree with him--and the rising goons in the world government headed down the same track as fast as their lies and billions of dollars can carry them.

GET OUT THE VOTE WITH YOUR CONSERVATIVE ASSOCIATES, GROUP!

CHANGE THE MINDS OF AT LEAST 3 MODERATE LIBERALS IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, IN YOUR NETWORK.

ABOVE ALL, PRAY FOR OUR PRESIDENT'S SUCCESS AND THE SAFETY OF HIS FAMILY AND CLOSE ADVISORS.

GOD SAVE OUR REPUBLIC!




BTW, I posted an excellent book chapter on CESSATIONISM--the idiotic doctrine that Holy Spirit quit speaking to man--one poster claimed at Christ's resurrection and others contend when John the Beloved wrote the last character in the last word of the last sentence in the last chapter of Revelation.

Great treatment of the subject beginning at post 668 at:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1233624/posts?page=671

THIS is a thread REALLY SETUP to present and discuss DREAMS AND VISIONS of terror attacks on the USA and around the world--the first one concerning masses of such before the election. AND TO THEREBY GENERATE MORE PRAYER FOR OUR PRESIDENT, THE ELECTION AND OUR REPUBLIC.

Sadly, the thread has been greatly (not totally) hijacked, stolen by the blind folks determined to spew their UnBiblical doctrine of men/ demonic docrtine about Cessationism.

Plenty of great points with which to consider the issue yourself in posts 668 and 669 in that thread.


63 posted on 10/12/2004 4:02:49 AM PDT by Quix (PRAYERS 4 PRES, FAMILY, ADVISORS N OUR REPUBLIC IN OCT MAY BE VITALLY CRUCIAL)
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To: JohnHuang2
I am not a Christian and do not believe in the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth, but there is ample proof that he did indeed exist. Many authors refer to him from the time. An excellent book which mentions this period of history and the role of Jesus of Nazareth is "A Short History of the Jewish People" by Cecil Roth, 1936.

Old, well written authoritative history books are worth their weight in gold. I have many of them.

The film maker is being disingenuous with the truth. Re-writing history to suit one's commercial purposes is not a good idea. History has meaning. Everything happens for a reason.
64 posted on 10/12/2004 4:05:33 AM PDT by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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Comment #65 Removed by Moderator

To: Bob_Dobbs

You may consider it poor now. These days, any lunatic can espouse any theory he wants, with no fear of incrimination, just alot of winks and nods and people laughing behind his back.

But matters were quite different back then. The penalties for misrepresentation were a little bit more severe. Crucifixion, being stoned to death, in some cases being burned or buried alive.

So if a person maintained something, he had better believe it fully, and be prepared with some kind of corroborating evidence.

They were a bit grumpier back in those days.


66 posted on 10/12/2004 4:12:20 AM PDT by djf
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To: Bob_Dobbs
earthquake followed by deceased persons arising

Who would have believed anybody who talked? Miracles are ultimately useless in conversion because 1) If it didn't happen on TV it didn't happen, and 2) If it DID happen on TV it must have been faked. See Exodus. People take the miracles then always demand more. No, faith is built on something other than miracles.

67 posted on 10/12/2004 4:14:34 AM PDT by johnb838 (MSPO: Main Stream Propaganda Organ)
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Comment #68 Removed by Moderator

To: PetroniusMaximus

Cash is probably the true motivator behind this.


69 posted on 10/12/2004 4:26:16 AM PDT by freekitty
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To: fortheDeclaration; editor-surveyor; Commander8
The Beast (Nero) 'evangelical' movie........here they come......anti-pre-tribulational-fundamentalism...

From another thread.....

In the 'Afterword' section of, The Last Disciple, book is mentioned that Tyndale House is 'coming out' with a new title called, 'Exegetical Eschatology'.

My guess is that it will be on George E. Ladd's, 'Historical (Preterism) Pre-millenniumism mixed with Dodd's 'Universalism'.

It will NOT 'expose' EVANGELICALISM's Progressive Dispensationalism as being the same as 'Historic Pre-millenniumism. ie. Post-Tribulationism.

My guess,.....FWIW

The Beast (Nero).........says it all.......?

70 posted on 10/12/2004 4:26:24 AM PDT by maestro
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To: Bob_Dobbs

I understand that. There never really was a vendetta of sorts by the Romans against the Christians. But the Christians of the time denounced the Roman Gods, and thereby sealed there fate.

On another matter, it is rumored that Severus Alexander, the youngest Emperor of Rome ever, had interesting statues in his private church. Statues of the Roman gods, and a statue of an old guy named Ibrahim, and another (mythical) fellow named Chrestus.

Alexander, while not one of the most revered emperors, had been afforded the height of Roman education and resources.

I suspect he himself had some direct evidence of Christ.


71 posted on 10/12/2004 4:31:34 AM PDT by djf
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To: djf

there fate = their fate

too late..... yawn...


72 posted on 10/12/2004 4:33:05 AM PDT by djf
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To: Bandaneira
Whatever any author got about the Lord Jesus Christ, he got from the Gospels.

No contemporary historian mentioned him.

It was alleged that Josephus mentioned him but that was exposed as an later insertion.

73 posted on 10/12/2004 4:33:26 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration

Not entirely true. He also mentions in another section, the death? of the brother of James.

This passage is generally accepted as speaking of James, Jesus's brother, and Jesus himself.

And it is also accepted as being authentic.


74 posted on 10/12/2004 4:39:43 AM PDT by djf
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To: Bob_Dobbs

"That news of an earthquake followed by deceased persons arising did not spread immediately is full proof of a hoax."

I don't think earthquakes were so rare at the time that the Romans would have sent their special correspondents over to Jerusalem. And the evidence for the dead coming back to life would have been - a lot of living people, who claimed they were dead once. You see how it sounds.

It's odd to get hung up on some talking point about why the Romans didn't apparently mention a miraculous event, if they didn't. Most people instinctively - and quite sensibly - dismiss reports of miraculous events unless they experience them first hand. The Church itself automatically assumes reported miracles to be false unless there is excellent evidence. So why would the Romans have been any different?


75 posted on 10/12/2004 4:45:57 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: JohnHuang2

God and Jesus are not an intellectual conversation. They are the belief in your soul. There are some things in life that one knows without seeing.


76 posted on 10/12/2004 4:47:52 AM PDT by freekitty
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To: Bob_Dobbs
Earlier you said:

There must be lots of Roman historians who wrote of an earthquake accompanied by the dead wandering the town. Tacitus? Pliny? Seutonius? Someone should check because that would just clinch it!

And in your last post you said:

But the wandering dead were seen by "many." Did these people keep it to themselves? I used to live in a town of 20,000: news of anything spread like wildfire. That news of an earthquake followed by deceased persons arising did not spread immediately is full proof of a hoax.

The major historians lived in or close to Rome at the time. In a town of 20,000 people, with telephones, modern transportation, and television, of course news is going to spread like wildfire. Whether it did in Jerusalem or not, we cannot say either way. That entire part of the Empire was considered to be quite backwater at the time. In an empire that spreads across the entire Mediterranian Sea, rumors such as that take months (if not years) to spread, if they are spread at all. There were no railroads, no cars, no planes, no steam or electric ships - there were horse and carriage and there were VERY slow ships. People did not travel very much.

On top of this, the information was spread by word of mouth. If someone tells you by word of mouth that there was an earthquake in a backwater part of the empire and that dead people were walking down the street, you would more likely than not simply chalk it up to rumor. Furthermore, "investigative reporting" wasn't exactly on anyone's agenda back then. If you lived in Rome and heard "mystical stories" about things that happened in far away lands, it was most likely not on top of your list of "things to do" to go out and spend the next twenty years of your life travelling to that place to find out whether it was true or not. In times like that, stories of such events are always floating around.

77 posted on 10/12/2004 4:49:17 AM PDT by MWS (Errare humanum est, in errore perservare stultum.)
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To: djf
Interesting.

Thanks, I will check it out.

78 posted on 10/12/2004 4:49:17 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: JohnHuang2

Ah, yes. Satan's rebuttal to "Passion of the Christ"...


79 posted on 10/12/2004 4:52:29 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever ("...upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.")
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To: rockprof

i see crowds of christians with brochures outside the theatre, life-size cross replicas... prayer vigils. stories by the anti-christian media how the "mean christians' made the atheists "feel uncomfortable". i would personally favor churches showing "the passion of the christ" at the same time this horrible lie is being shown to give an alternative to people to get the real story. that's probably wishful thinking on my part.


80 posted on 10/12/2004 4:53:07 AM PDT by badmrbunny
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To: fortheDeclaration

Do you realise that there are some other references to Jesus of Nazareth written around that time, i.e. 33 ace apart from Josephus ?

It all depends how good your reference books are really.


81 posted on 10/12/2004 4:54:26 AM PDT by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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To: MWS

And remember, politics back then were not much different. The empire was basically a familial based oligarchy, with competing family groups gaining control of the empire over the centuries.

It was not unusual at all when an overthrow took place to try to eradicate all evidence of preceding reigns.

There were over 700,000 texts lost when Alexandria burned.

We don't know yet what lies buried in the Vatican.

When they finally publish the Dead Sea scrolls, we might find out.


82 posted on 10/12/2004 4:54:37 AM PDT by djf
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To: JohnHuang2

They'll love it in Lower Slobovia.


83 posted on 10/12/2004 4:54:37 AM PDT by Savage Beast (9/11 was never repeated--thanks to President Bush!)
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To: wildwood

Not only that, all of this can survive for 2000 years.


84 posted on 10/12/2004 4:55:20 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: djf
There is an excellent saying which goes...

"It doesn't matter what you think, we will all know the truth and what is correct in the end."

That time is rapidly approaching. I am talking weeks and months, not years.
85 posted on 10/12/2004 4:57:25 AM PDT by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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To: Bob_Dobbs

If you saw a person walking down the street, how would you know if they had previously died (and many have)?


86 posted on 10/12/2004 4:57:48 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: Bandaneira

I've thought for a long time that the Vatican has stuff that they can't release because it conflicts with orthodox Catholicism.


87 posted on 10/12/2004 5:00:49 AM PDT by djf
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To: Bob_Dobbs

Christians were not persecuted for their beliefs as much as they were persecuted to keep order. Considering that Christians were more orderly than even the Jews of the time, it leads one to a conclusion that defies logic.


88 posted on 10/12/2004 5:02:27 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: maestro
Next new series of movies will be,.....Moses never existed,......10 Commandments must be removed from schools.

To paraphrase "Princess Ann," "they're really just talking points, and it's not like they're written in stone!"

Yes, I'm fully aware of the rule...

Wait for it...

Mark

89 posted on 10/12/2004 5:02:38 AM PDT by MarkL (Power currupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. But it rocks absolutely, too!)
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To: Bandaneira
Do you realise that there are some other references to Jesus of Nazareth written around that time, i.e. 33 ace apart from Josephus ? It all depends how good your reference books are really.

Might you name some?

90 posted on 10/12/2004 5:03:49 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: R. Scott

There's no room for fence-sitting on the question of Jesus. It's as simple as this:

1. If Jesus spoke the truth, then He was/is the Son of the Living God of Abraham, Yaweh. The Messiah.

2. If Jesus was not the Son of the Living God (not to mention, God himself), then He was the greatest charlatan of all history, a man of deception, cunning, and evil.

There's no room in between. Those who say, "Jesus was a benevolent preacher" are flat out wrong. Either He was who He said He was, or He was Satan incarnate.


91 posted on 10/12/2004 5:04:56 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever ("...upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.")
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To: JohnHuang2
They better hope for an Oscar. Probably the only positive recognition they will get, here and beyond.
92 posted on 10/12/2004 5:05:36 AM PDT by ditto h
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To: JohnHuang2

I feel sorry for these people on judgement day.


93 posted on 10/12/2004 5:05:57 AM PDT by MeekMom ((HUGE Coulter fan!!!) (Life-long Python Addict))
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To: JohnHuang2
The religious equivalent of The Day after Tomorrow. The nuts will latch onto it as "fact", but then, the dingbats who believe in nothing will believe in anything.
94 posted on 10/12/2004 5:07:17 AM PDT by Publius6961 (I, also, don't do diplomacy.)
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To: The KG9 Kid

And I have no doubt this will thrill the producers of this tripe. They won't get a soul to go see that movie unless it appears it's offending someone. Aside from how offensive it will be to Christians, it sounds incredibly dumb.


95 posted on 10/12/2004 5:10:44 AM PDT by Casloy
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To: fortheDeclaration

Do a Google on "Dominus Flevit"

Note that these items date from 30-40 AD, predating the accepted dates of any of the gospels.


96 posted on 10/12/2004 5:12:15 AM PDT by djf
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To: AngloSaxon
Now there's a thought. From the purely commercial perspective and, keeping with today's standards of entertainment, the life of muhammed is head and shoulders more perverse, and twisted and the more obvious and rational box office hit.

Of course, I know why it was not chosen instead. Those who wish to keep their heads about them...

*snrk*

97 posted on 10/12/2004 5:13:03 AM PDT by Publius6961 (I, also, don't do diplomacy.)
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To: Cvengr
You ding-dong.

You cant't use information contained in a fictitious document to prove its validity!

It's a miracle that religion exists at all with brainiacs like this one.

98 posted on 10/12/2004 5:15:22 AM PDT by Publius6961 (I, also, don't do diplomacy.)
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To: MWS

hate to tell you, but merely resurrecting the dead would not be proof of anything. Lots of "scholars" claimed that Jesus was merely "revived" by some expert in medicine...(one reason many of these same people got upset at Gibson's "bloody" film was that he showed the extent of Jesus' wounding, making their story of a fast "revival" improbably-- heck, even with modern antibiotics and an ICU you'd take more than 36 hours to get up and around with those wounds).

In Africa, a person in a coma might be considered "dead" and then buried (like Muslims, they buried by sunset the day of death). Then the person would wake up, and be considered "resurrected".

The point with Lazarus was that he was dead (and, as Martha pointed out, stinking i.e. decomposing) but then was publically resurrected. This astounded people. A similar miracle was the man "born blind" who regained his sight. Lots of people with psychological blindess or other blindness that could come and go (glaucoma, trachoma flaring up with corneal opacity) were cured all the time. But people knew that you just didn't cure a person born blind...

So if a lot of people "resurrected" with the earthquake, and some were alive, it would only "prove" they were prmaturely buried to skeptics. If they had been long dead, they would be considered "hallucinations" or fraud.

Romans were superstitious, but most were hard nosed skeptics...even Luke, a trained doctor, didn't take the "gospels" as proof: He checked the sources before writing about Jesus....

And the Gospel of John, written the last, has details of the city of Jerusalem that were lost to history until modern archeology, because Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD.


99 posted on 10/12/2004 5:19:50 AM PDT by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: Uncle Vlad
The Day After Tomorrow was not ignored. It was justifiably ridiculed, until its writer admitted that he knew nothing of science and just made it up as entertainment. It even shut up the "I invented the internet" wack-job.

Ridiculing this one will have identical effect.

I still wonder why Islam wasn't picked on instead; It would be a smash hit, what with mayhem, murder, pedophilia, and universal raping going on all over the place...

100 posted on 10/12/2004 5:21:19 AM PDT by Publius6961 (I, also, don't do diplomacy.)
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