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'The Beast' movie: Jesus didn't exist; Former Christian director's secretive film
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Tuesday, October 12, 2004 | Ron Strom

Posted on 10/12/2004 2:54:10 AM PDT by JohnHuang2

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To: JohnHuang2; scripter; little jeremiah; EdReform

Brian Flemming appears to be another vile gay maggot who hates Christians and pushes the gay agenda constantly:

http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=Brian%20Flemming%20Gay


151 posted on 10/12/2004 6:16:46 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (When will the ABCNNBC BS lunatic libs stop Rathering to Americans? Answer: NEVER!)
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To: BibChr

LOL!
Somebody will make a movie that he never existed, because as vile and distasteful a creature as the hildebeast could never possibly have existed...


152 posted on 10/12/2004 6:16:57 AM PDT by djf
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To: djf

"We know Clintoon existed. We have the dress!"

Technically his DNA.


153 posted on 10/12/2004 6:17:17 AM PDT by SunnySide
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To: Bob_Dobbs
I wonder why the single most mind-blowing event of all time went unnoticed by historians who were in Rome at the time

Because they were in Rome at the time?

154 posted on 10/12/2004 6:17:47 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: JohnHuang2
ANTI-CHRIST!
 
 
What does the BIBLE say??
 
 



1 John 2:18-26
 18.  Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
 19.  They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
 20.  But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
 21.  I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.
 22.  Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.
 23.  No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
 24.  See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
 25.  And this is what he promised us--even eternal life.
 26.  I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.
 
1 John 4:1-3
  1.  Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
  2.  This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
  3.  but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
 

2 John 1:7-10
  7.  Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
  8.  Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.
  9.  Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
 10.  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.


 
Are there MAJOR groups that say that JESUS is NOT the CHRIST??
 
Avoid them!!!
 


666!
 
Revelation 13:11-18
 11.  Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.
 12.  He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.
 13.  And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.
 14.  Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.
 15.  He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
 16.  He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead,
 17.  so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
 18.  This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.
 
(Notice NO mention of 'anti-christ' in Revelation!)

155 posted on 10/12/2004 6:17:58 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: BibChr
Aaah! They found out!

How about Rome's best kept secret: Nero never existed. The government made him up out of necessity.

Evolution's best kept secret: Darwin never existed. His followers made him up out of necessity.

Like C.S. Lewis said, the existence of the largest religion in the world cannot be explained if Christ was not raised from the dead, and in order to be raised, he had to exist. And we have the testimony of many secular sources to satisfy all but the skeptic who covers his eyes with his hands. See Jesus & Christian Origins Outside the New Testament by F.F. Bruce.

156 posted on 10/12/2004 6:18:02 AM PDT by Dataman
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To: JohnHuang2
"...mentioning the four Gospels are themselves four separate accounts of Christ's life."

Who's ignoring scholarship now? Scholarship suggests they're single sourced and written decades post Crucifixion.

157 posted on 10/12/2004 6:18:32 AM PDT by newzjunkey (Why are we in Iraq? Just point the whiners here: http://www.massgraves.info)
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To: R. Scott

He declared Himself the Messiah. If He wasn't, He was an imposter - a liar who preyed on the emotions of a vulnerable society of oppressed Jews. You call that kind and considerate?

The point is, one cannot reason that Christ was not the Messiah, and at the same time claim He was just some benevolent rabbi.


158 posted on 10/12/2004 6:19:59 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever ("...upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.")
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To: newzjunkey
If by "scholarship" you mean "cutting-edge eighteenth-century scholarship and its modern echoes," yes.

Dan
How to Make Your Very Own Jesus

159 posted on 10/12/2004 6:21:29 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Grampa Dave

"Brian Flemming appears to be another vile gay maggot who hates Christians and pushes the gay agenda constantly: "

And there in is the true agenda of a deciple of the beast. It's feeding time, the beast has a voracious appetite.


160 posted on 10/12/2004 6:21:34 AM PDT by SunnySide
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To: newzjunkey
Scholarship suggests they're single sourced and written decades post Crucifixion.

And that's why they are identical to each other!

161 posted on 10/12/2004 6:22:35 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Bob_Dobbs
But the wandering dead were seen by "many." Did these people keep it to themselves?

Probably not. Did they write it down? Probably not. If they had, would the documents be around today? Probably not, unless they were copied and recopied by monks over the centuries...

162 posted on 10/12/2004 6:22:47 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Dataman
If that's the case, I'm not even sure I exist.

What's disturbing is not that some fool decided to make a movie declaring that Christ never existed. What's disturbing is that people will believe it if the director can get a guest spot on TRL.

163 posted on 10/12/2004 6:23:25 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever ("...upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.")
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To: navycorpsman

Welcome aboard Navy man. From a Navy dad.


164 posted on 10/12/2004 6:24:49 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATmedia will no longer control American politics if patriots have their way.)
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To: jriemer

Perhaps, since I was basing it on the total dollar loss. But it's quite possible Gigli was seen by fewer people.


165 posted on 10/12/2004 6:26:31 AM PDT by Casloy
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To: johnb838
Miracles are ultimately useless in conversion because 1) If it didn't happen on TV it didn't happen, and 2) If it DID happen on TV it must have been faked. See Exodus. People take the miracles then always demand more. No, faith is built on something other than miracles.

Generally true, except for these ongoing miraculous events (except for Fatima, which is otherwise well-documented):

Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano
The Tilma of Guadalupe
Incorrupt bodies of the saints
Fatima
Shroud of Turin
Sudarium of Oviedo

166 posted on 10/12/2004 6:26:49 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Cvengr

I thought that there was mention of Jesus in Roman records of the time. Tax records maybe? I can't remember.


167 posted on 10/12/2004 6:27:02 AM PDT by dljordan
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To: newzjunkey
Scholarship suggests nothing of the kind.

Even if we assume for the sake of argument that the Synoptic Gospels have a common source, what do you do with John?

Another point: my father fought in WWII, over 50 years ago. Recently he gave an account of the Italian campaign to my daughter for a history class. That's "decades post" WWII - five whole decades. Does that invalidate his account? It seems likely that the memories of those who knew Jesus are as good or better than my dad's recall (which is remarkably detailed.)

In the case of the Gospels, you have multiple sources, varying with their own individual recollections but confirming the basic facts of what occurred. You would expect accounts to be similar (but not identical) given that they are recounting the same story. And they are. As C.S. Lewis says, either the Evangelists anticipated the modern school of "realistic fiction" by about 1900 years, or they were telling the truth.

168 posted on 10/12/2004 6:27:36 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of ye Chace (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
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To: highlander_UW

Right! They all got together one night over a glass of wine and said "hey, I've got an idea on how to make some big shekels!".


169 posted on 10/12/2004 6:28:32 AM PDT by dljordan
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To: SunnySide

This same vile group has thousands of so called reporters and newscasters who daily attack our President with lies.

A prime example was Tom Hays of the AP. He was the maggot who did the fake article re the boos at the GW meeting in Wisconsin when GW announced that Clintoon was in the hospital.

For an interesting and revealing exercise, whenever you see a name associated with something like this. Go to Yahoo search and enter the name and Gay and run the search. The results can be quite revealing.


170 posted on 10/12/2004 6:28:41 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (When will the ABCNNBC BS lunatic libs stop Rathering to Americans? Answer: NEVER!)
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To: Rutles4Ever
He declared Himself the Messiah. If He wasn't, He was an imposter - a liar who preyed on the emotions of a vulnerable society of oppressed Jews. You call that kind and considerate?

I don’t really know if He declared Himself the Messiah or not. I do know that His followers wrote that He did.
As I posted earlier, should The Christ be held accountable for the actions of others?

171 posted on 10/12/2004 6:29:37 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: mhking

Stop the insanity!!!


172 posted on 10/12/2004 6:30:06 AM PDT by msp2004
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To: AppyPappy
If you saw a person walking down the street, how would you know if they had previously died (and many have)

At the time, bodies of the dead were wrapped in shrouds or burial cloths. I think that would be a dead give away....pun intended.
173 posted on 10/12/2004 6:31:01 AM PDT by newcats
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To: JohnHuang2

Jesus is referenced by name by the Roman historian Suetonius in Twelve Caesars.

Whoops! Now I'm going to have to rely on suspension of disbelief.


174 posted on 10/12/2004 6:33:12 AM PDT by RinaseaofDs (The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.)
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To: freekitty
God and Jesus are not an intellectual conversation. They are the belief in your soul. There are some things in life that one knows without seeing.

Don't dismiss intellectual arguments for the existence of God. The Design Argument is even mentioned in the Bible:

Romans 1:18-22

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.


175 posted on 10/12/2004 6:33:31 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: JohnHuang2
"....There are no credible non-Christian references to Christ during the period in which he is said to have lived," states the film's site......"

I thought it was reported that there were some references to Jesus in the Dead Sea Scrolls that were found near Quomran (sp?)?

176 posted on 10/12/2004 6:36:13 AM PDT by DoctorMichael (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: djf
We don't know yet what lies buried in the Vatican.

St. Peter?

In a work issued in 1959, Father Kirschbaum, a member of the archeological commission excavating under the basilica during the 1940's, has given a summary of the findings. These are in brief that it is reasonably certain that the place where St. Peter was buried has been discovered. According to historical records, supplemented by these new discoveries, this is the "history" of the tomb. The Christians buried the Apostle's body in a simple grave on the southern slope of Vatican Hill and covered it with a few brick slabs. Soon other graves were made near that of St. Peter, and these have been recently discovered. Their existence and inscriptions on the wall make clear that from the very first St. Peter's tomb was a place of pilgrimage so that there was uninterrupted Christian veneration and observation of this spot.

About the middle of the second century the grave was marked by a simple monumental slab, the "trophy" mentioned by Father Gaius about 200. During Valerian's persecution, when Christian cemeteries were closed for the first time, St. Peter's relics, but probably only the skull, were moved to a more secure place on the Via Appia. They were returned in the fourth century when Constantine began the first basilica over St. Peter's tomb. To this end he went to great labor and expense to fill up piles on the sloping Vatican Hill to provide a level foundation. This is why St. Peter's tomb is at a considerably lower level than the floor of the Basilica of Constantine and its modern replacement.

St. Gregory the Great carried out extensive alterations between 594 and 604, placing an altar over the tomb, but leaving a shaft through which objects might be lowered to touch the tomb for the veneration of pilgrims. During a Saracen raid in 846 much of the basilica and tomb were plundered, although the actual grave was not penetrated. It was soon after, probably, that the skull was removed and placed, together with that of St. Paul, in the Lateran, where they still remain. To prevent further vandalism the tomb shaft was filled up and the crypt sealed.

In 1503, work was begun to construct the modern basilica which was built over the tomb without disturbing it. During construction some attempts were made to reach the tomb, but were abandoned, it is now clear, before reaching the actual grave. The discoveries of 1940-51, however, successively penetrated the various layers and reached the actual site of the original grave of St. Peter. Here were found bones, all belonging to the same person, "an elderly and vigorous man," with the skull missing.

The cautious archeologists will affirm no more than that these bones were believed to have been those of St. Peter by those who detached the skull for preservation during Valerian's persecution in the third century. In view of the continuous record up to that time of Christian devotion to the tomb, we believe that this ought to be enough to satisfy any reasonable man.

We may conclude, then, that not only St. Peter's authority and spirit, but even the relics of his body, have remained in Rome. Nature and grace have conspired to justify the Latin inscription on the dome of St. Peter's Basilica, towering some 400 feet above the once simple earthen grave: "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and I will give you the keys of heaven."


177 posted on 10/12/2004 6:40:30 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: JohnHuang2

Readers of Dan Brown's tripe should flock to this.


178 posted on 10/12/2004 6:43:04 AM PDT by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: R. Scott

I know you. I've met you many times. The detached observer who swivels in his chair and resists the desire to commit fully to any idea. Bully for you.


179 posted on 10/12/2004 6:48:21 AM PDT by O.C. - Old Cracker (When the cracker gets old, you wind up with Old Cracker. - O.C.)
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To: newcats

In Jesus' case, the shroud was left behind.


180 posted on 10/12/2004 6:50:15 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: JohnHuang2
A lot of the people involved in making "The Passion" had interesting and life-changing encounters with the Holy Spirit. I wonder what kind of experiences the makers of this trash are going to have???
181 posted on 10/12/2004 6:53:16 AM PDT by mollynme (cogito, ergo freepum)
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To: Bob_Dobbs

Thallus, Greek historian, records a discussion of the darkness which fell upon the land during the crucifixion of Christ (refer to Matthew 27.45, Mark 15.33, Luke 23.44,45).

Thallus explains away the darkness as an eclipse of the sun. Two things we can infer:

1. That the gospel story (crucifixion & resurrection) was known in Rome in non-Christian circles towards the middle of the first century.
2. That the enemies of Christianity tried to refute the story by giving a naturalistic explanation to the facts which it reported.


182 posted on 10/12/2004 6:53:39 AM PDT by bexardave
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To: wildwood

"a cover-up of Christianity's best-kept secret: that Jesus Christ never existed. "

Let me get this straight .. These same people who are trying to tell us that Christ never existed expect us to believe that Bush is the anti-christ?????


183 posted on 10/12/2004 6:57:31 AM PDT by msp2004
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To: JohnHuang2
I have a question: why is it that these films and books that purport to "expose" chr*stianity always focus on Fundamentalist Protestantism, which is only a few hundred years old? Where are the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Non-Chalcaedonian and Non-Ephesine churches in all these "anti-chr*stian" attacks? They would be much more implicated in such a millenia-old chr*stian conspiracy, yet liberals seem to be obsessed with pinning all chr*stian crimes (real and imagined) onto Louisiana tent Pentecostals. Of course, since the director is a former Fundamentalist Protestant, he probably has never heard of these ancient churches in the first place. Maybe he still believes the Southern Baptist Convention is two thousand years old?

While we're being all "courageous" and everything, when is an expose of Mohammed coming out? (That question was rhetorical. I realize that "courage" and exposing "truth" only applies to the Abstract Host Population and that protecting the "otherness" of other cultures is just as important to liberals. Of course, this merely confers that they are jumbles of internal contradictions.)

184 posted on 10/12/2004 7:00:24 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (G-D'S TORAH defines Conservatism.)
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To: R. Scott

"Without the intervention of Paul the Christ movement would have remained a minor Jewish sect. Paul was educated in the Greeko-Roman manner, was a Roman citizen, a bureaucrat and knew how to get things moving."

Who intervened with Paul...what persuaded him to do a 180 degree turnaround? What persuaded him to trade in his comfortable life for one that would lead to scourging, stoning, shipwreck, imprisonment and ultimately beheading?

I like Gamaliel's Counsel from Acts 5.38,39

"So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God."


185 posted on 10/12/2004 7:00:58 AM PDT by bexardave
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To: AppyPappy
Having problems with concentration?
We were not talking about Jesus. You were commenting on the dead rising from their graves and walking around, line.
Focus...
186 posted on 10/12/2004 7:02:04 AM PDT by newcats
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To: newcats
Having problems with concentration?

No but thanks for asking

We were not talking about Jesus. You were commenting on the dead rising from their graves and walking around, line.

Yes so was I. You mentioned they would be wearing shrouds and I mentioned that Jesus left his in the grave as would many of the people who left their graves. Jesus=left his grave without His shroud thereby proving that others might has as well.

Focus...

Thanks and welcome to the world of reasoning. Glad you have joined us.

187 posted on 10/12/2004 7:07:50 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: tomnbeverly

"There is no doubt we are in the time of tribulation. Revelation tells us to beware the False Prophet... And how will we know who he is...

Some say that you can tell because he will claim False miracles promising life from death.. well isn't a promise of life from death exactly what Embryonic stem cell research is? "

Deception was Christ's first warning regarding the sign to his return. He was not talking to non-Christians either. The instead of jesus, the "anti-christ will have the power to perform miracles, and "IF" possible will deceive even the "very elect".

Think about it, what would cause "Christians" to pray for mountains to fall upon them, and what would cause Christ to tell those who claim they taught in His name, cast out devils in His name to be told get away I never knew you..... cause they worshiped the wrong Christ they were deceived.

Paul said IIThessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, (so Satan comes first, pretending to be Christ)

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be save.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:




188 posted on 10/12/2004 7:18:59 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Casloy
That's funny.

You'd think that the success of the film "The Passion of the Christ" would have, maybe, given Hollywood a clue? Maybe?

189 posted on 10/12/2004 7:21:25 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: Aquinasfan
Actually that citation is very much disputed.

However, there is the citation in antiquites XX 9:1 regarding the death of James, the Lords brother (as dbf stated)

Also, Josh McDowell lists Tacitus, Lucian of Samosata, Suetonius, Pliny the Younger, as sources to show that Christ was known to have existed through his followers.

190 posted on 10/12/2004 7:22:59 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: AppyPappy
Yes so was I. You mentioned they would be wearing shrouds and I mentioned that Jesus left his in the grave as would many of the people who left their graves. Jesus=left his grave without His shroud thereby proving that others might has as well.

So they would all be walking around naked, or in spritial garb?
Either way, I think they would stand out from the living.
191 posted on 10/12/2004 7:23:37 AM PDT by newcats
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To: qam1

But he was born close enough to the events to know that Jesus existed because those around him could attest to it. In fact many of them were part of Jesus' generation.


192 posted on 10/12/2004 7:26:12 AM PDT by agrace
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To: JohnHuang2
It will be interesting to see who distributes and finances this.

The pre-production secrecy and creation of 'controversy' is an attempt to mimic Mel Gibson's success with The Passion of The Christ.

As for the premise of the story, I'm sure some will cling to it to rationalize their own beliefs.

193 posted on 10/12/2004 7:26:32 AM PDT by DaveMSmith (One Day at A Time || Blue Angel in PJs)
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To: Bob_Dobbs
That news of an earthquake followed by deceased persons arising did not spread immediately is full proof of a hoax.

What makes you think it didn't? Such a rumor out of the provinces wouldn't likely have been considered credible by folks such as P. the E.

Besides which, you need to re-examine your notion of what constitutes "proof." Haven't you heard the old-but-valid aphorism "Absence of proof does not constitute proof of absence"?

194 posted on 10/12/2004 7:27:02 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: Buggman
Agreed.

They are listed in Josh McDowell's work A Ready Defense

Probably a better way to state the importance of the Gospel accounts is that they give us the only history of Christ's life, (manner of birth, his sayings, his manner of death etc)

The secular historians cited prove that he was a real person.

195 posted on 10/12/2004 7:28:05 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: R. Scott

"Without the intervention of Paul the Christ movement would have remained a minor Jewish sect. Paul was educated in the Greeko-Roman manner, was a Roman citizen, a bureaucrat and knew how to get things moving. Paul is not one of my favorite Christian writers, and I personally dislike much of what he interjected into Christianity – but without him the message of The Christ would not have survived."

Interesting, Paul did know his Old Testament, and he did pen most of the New Testament. Paul made the Old the basis and the foundation which Christianity has credibility. Man is the one who has played with the original text the Old and the New, but hey that was written would take place.


196 posted on 10/12/2004 7:29:08 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: JohnHuang2

If Jesus didn't exist, then why did 1st Century Jews write about him in the Talmud?


197 posted on 10/12/2004 7:29:23 AM PDT by Redcloak (Vikings plundered my last tag line.)
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To: newcats

Who knows how they would have walked around? You are missing the point. People saw them and it was cited in the text. The clothing is irrelevant at that point.


198 posted on 10/12/2004 7:31:17 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: Bandaneira
"I am not a Christian and do not believe in the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth, but there is ample proof that he did indeed exist. Many authors refer to him from the time. An excellent book which mentions this period of history and the role of Jesus of Nazareth is "A Short History of the Jewish People" by Cecil Roth, 1936.

Old, well written authoritative history books are worth their weight in gold. I have many of them.

The film maker is being disingenuous with the truth. Re-writing history to suit one's commercial purposes is not a good idea. History has meaning. Everything happens for a reason."


Interesting, no one can force anybody to be "Christian". Many are called few are chosen.

Psalms 22 written hundreds of years prior to the even, penned by King David, a prophet and interestingly that is exactly what took place.
199 posted on 10/12/2004 7:33:46 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Aquinasfan

There are two versions of Josephus' account.

Greek Translation:

Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.

Arabic:

At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon their loyalty to him. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive. Accordingly they believed that he was the Messiah, concerning whom the Prophets have recounted wonders.


200 posted on 10/12/2004 7:34:22 AM PDT by Poison Pill
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