Posted on 10/14/2004 2:15:18 PM PDT by Hawk44
I figured you were giving me a friendly dig, but I wasn't sure what the dig meant. Was the post a "surprise" because, given the usual tenor of my posts on other subjects, my words were uncharacteristically harsh? Or did you use the word "surprise" with a touch of sarcasm because you know I've taken the girl's side since almost the beginning of the case, and so my opinion of Kobe was really no surprise at all?
Or, as a third alternative, was it surprising to hear a dirtbag like me call someone else a dirtbag? Like I say, I wasn't sure. :-)
Er....I meant what PROOF is there that she was raped?
Hey, Red,
I've been saving that thread for about 6 weeks. The Kobe coverage is a little tiresome, eh? If my kids were kidnapped, whatever; do y'all think this piece would be on national tv for weeks/months/years?
Just read the rest of the thread. The soap opera moms just suck this stuff up. Another three years of boreing local news. Wondering if the same folks have a clue what is going on in American politics. Seems athletic heroes are more important in murder cases in America by "EVIL" assault weapons. BTW, in OZ, there is a bill to ban swords. Can you beleive it? Next, the Aussies will ban rocks, spiders, snakes, kangeroos, and soup (y'all might drown).
You sound like Douglas Brinkley, who keeps arguing that the eye witness statements of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are not evidence. Not only are Kobe's accuser's statements evidence of rape, Kobe's contradictory statements are as well. Note that (a) he was denying ever having sex with her until after the police told him they had semen and pubic hair samples from her exam, and (b) he was asking if there was any way he could settle the matter before he was even charged with anything. That's strong evidence of consciousness of guilt. The physical evidence (blood, semen, pubic hair, etc.) is also strong evidence of his guilt.
Perhaps there was little chance that a jury would find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but as with O.J., that doesn't mean there was no convincing evidence of his guilt.
Trust me,
you freeze.
Which, of course, turned out to be a lie on the part of the police.
Michael Baden and the SARS nurses told the DA that the "evidence" they saw didn't prove rape; of course, Hurlbert "forgot" to share that information with the defense.
It was just a little dig, friend.
I never referred to him as a rapist. I only offered my opinion that I am inclined to believe that he raped the woman based on the evidence I've read.
Does that mean that I can call someone else a rapist and you will all join in with me? I mean, I could make up a pretty believable story so it must be true, right?
Your story wouldn't be very believable without the kind of evidence that was presented in Kobe's case (eg. blood, semen, pubic hair, incriminating admissions by the accused, independent witnesses verifying parts of your story, etc.)
A lot of people assume that just because Kobe is rich, athletic, and arrogant he MUST have raped that poor, innocent girl.
Not I, because he had a pretty spotless reputation before the evidence of his guilt was made public.
There is no way that she could have planned this whole thing out to either get some money from him or get a little attention for herself, right.
As I've stated, Kobe was anxious to pay money to settle the case as soon as the cops went to question him, but instead of trying to seek money before anything went public, she reported a rape to the police almost immediately. She knew that he was married and had a spotless reputation and that she could have received plenty of attention or plenty of money just by claiming that he had sex with her.
The point is, you can say what you want about Kobe Bryant but the fact of the matter is that the girl decided that she didn't want to go ahead with the criminal case because she didn't want to face a heated cross examination that might have embarrassed her by bringing her personal life into question. Instead she is going ahead with the civil suit where she will stand to make roughly 2 million dollars plus whatever she gets for the book deal. Doesn't anyone find that a little odd?
Not at all, particularly if she is pregnant as has been reported. Do you remember the way the defense and the press savaged the woman who accused Teddy Kennedy's nephew of rape? I wouldn't be surprised to see her drop the civil case for some kind of half-assed apology for the same reason(s).
One thing that many defenders of Kobe don't seem to realize is that rapists have an intuitive way of choosing vulnerable victims whose credibility would be questioned because of their flirtacious tendancies and lack of any stature in the community.
For one thing, if it were your daughter, would you not want Kobe to fry for doing something like this?
Not if the price of doing so was ruining her life -- and nothing close to "frying" would ever happen to Kode even if he were to be convicted of rape.
Anyway, I just don't think it's fair to call Kobe a rapist and her a victim without a verdict being handed down.
Then you must not support the 1st Amendment, which thankfully makes it perfectly legal for anyone to state their opinion that Kobe is a rapist or O.J. is a murderer.
I don't know if the police were lying or not (read their statements carefully), but under the circumstances I have no problem with the police lying to try to get Kobe to make admissions which tend to prove a consciousness of guilt rather than the indignancy of a person falsely accused.
Michael Baden and the SARS nurses told the DA that the "evidence" they saw didn't prove rape...
Physical evidence alone would not be likely to prove a rape by threat of force. Nevertheless, they had her blood on Kobe's shirt.
First of all, the semen and pubic hair turned out to be from a WHITE GUY.
And even if it doesn't bother you that they lied, they STILL didn't get Kobe to confess to anything other than consensual sexual intercourse, did they?
Physical evidence alone would not be likely to prove a rape by threat of force.
You are aware, aren't you, that Michael Baden AND the SARS nurses were the ones who were suppose to PROVE this case for the DA, right?
Simply put, there is NO credible evidence of rape, much less forced rape.
They got him to admit that he was lying to the police at first and to make many other incriminating statements.
You are aware, aren't you, that Michael Baden AND the SARS nurses were the ones who were suppose to PROVE this case for the DA, right?
According to whom? No DA worth his salt would ever ignore witness statements, and they also had her blood on Kobe's shirt, which corroborated her statement.
Simply put, there is NO credible evidence of rape, much less forced rape.
More like simplistically put. Rape is still rape whether's it's committed with brute force or under threat of force, and there was credible evidence of both force and threat of force. I'm not saying that the prosecution could have easily gotten a conviction under the circumstances, but I think it's more likely than not that Kobe raped her. You seem to be approaching this case as if you believe that because she was kissing him in his hotel room and had a checkered background, she deserved whatever he did to her, even forced sex.
Yeah, maybe 30 seconds.
and to make many other incriminating statements.
There're not incriminating unless they prove something; and they sure didn't.
According to whom?
According to the judge, that's who.
No DA worth his salt would ever ignore witness statements
Well, you have finally found the problem; he's NOT worth his salt -- in fact, he's been lying.
and they also had her blood on Kobe's shirt, which corroborated her statement.
And proved nothing except they had sex, period.
and there was credible evidence of both force and threat of force.
Yeah? List some then.
I'm not saying that the prosecution could have easily gotten a conviction under the circumstances
Well, then you agree with us: it has to be proven without a shadow of a doubt.
And this case is FULL of doubt -- all on her part.
If he raped her he raped her, whether he was convictable or not -- just like O.J. obviously murdered his wife even though he got off. Our criminal system is set up to err on the side of the defendant, but the civil system is supposed to be about simply weighing the evidence, and I think the weight of the evidence is against Kobe, and I am sure that any decent defense attorney would be very dismayed about their client saying what Kobe said to the police. He had consciousness of guilt suggestions running all through that statement.
You haven't been paying attention: there IS no evidence to support rape, except her statement, which she's redacted more than once.
It's a he said, she said; and so far, she's losing in the credibility department.
Sorry, trust me doesn't get it..
On either side of the line..
Nowadays, people are brought up not to resist
That is foolishness beyond comprehension..
Given that sort of philosophy, there will come a day when predators have free rein, as no one will have the capacity to resist their abominations..
I refuse to be prey for any animal or human, and refuse to bring up any of my offspring to be prey as well...
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