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Independent Review Finds Bush Records Texas National Guard Officials Missed
TBO.COM ^

Posted on 10/15/2004 2:43:15 PM PDT by Sub-Driver

Independent Review Finds Bush Records Texas National Guard Officials Missed By Matt Kelley Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - Weeks after Texas National Guard officials signed an oath swearing they had turned over all of President Bush's military records, independent examiners found more than two dozen pages of previously unreleased documents about Bush. The two retired Army lawyers went through Texas files under an agreement between the Texas Guard and The Associated Press, which sued to gain access to the files. The 31 pages of documents turned over to AP Thursday night include orders for high-altitude training in 1972, less than three months before Bush abruptly quit flying as a fighter pilot.

The discovery is the latest in a series of embarrassments for Pentagon and Texas National Guard officials who have repeatedly said they found and released all of Bush's Vietnam-era military files, only to belatedly discover more records. Those discoveries - nearly 100 pages, including Bush's pay records and flight logs - have been the result of freedom of information lawsuits filed in federal and Texas courts by AP.

A Texas National Guard spokesman defended the continuing discoveries, saying Guard officials didn't find all of Bush's records because they are disorganized and in poor shape.

"These boxes are full of dirt and rat (excrement) and dead bugs. They have never been sitting in an uncontrolled climate," said Lt. Col. John Stanford. "It's a tough task to go through archives that were not set up in a way that you could easily go through them."

(Excerpt) Read more at ap.tbo.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: 2004electionbias; agitprop; apmediabias; bushhassers; ltbush; mediabias; militaryrecord; overlookkerryspast; tang; unlockkerrys
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1 posted on 10/15/2004 2:43:15 PM PDT by Sub-Driver
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To: Sub-Driver
AP is lusting for Bush's blood.
2 posted on 10/15/2004 2:45:22 PM PDT by atomicpossum (If there are two Americas, John Edwards isn't qualified to lead either of them.©)
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To: Sub-Driver

GOvernment has hard time finding 30 year old documents....quite shocking....what a scandal...time for impeachment.....


3 posted on 10/15/2004 2:45:37 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: Sub-Driver

Although you might not want to touch some of Bush's records, (decomposed, soiled by rats)I would not use Kerry's medal citations for Butt-Wipe.


4 posted on 10/15/2004 2:46:21 PM PDT by Ramonan (Honor does not go out of style.)
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To: Sub-Driver

You mean there are records that say he was actually THERE and training???? sarcasm


5 posted on 10/15/2004 2:46:21 PM PDT by TXBubba ( Democrats: If they don't abort you then they will tax you to death.)
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To: Sub-Driver

you know, this goes ON AND ON AND ON, while John Kerry wont release his... its sickening


6 posted on 10/15/2004 2:47:05 PM PDT by ArmyBratCutie ("Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:soap, ballot, jury, ammo in this order!")
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To: Sub-Driver

YAWN!!!!


7 posted on 10/15/2004 2:47:19 PM PDT by JaguarXKE
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To: Sub-Driver

So exactly where is the balance. The MSM won't even ask Kerry to release his records. Now that is what is called fair --- NOT.


8 posted on 10/15/2004 2:49:28 PM PDT by snooker
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To: atomicpossum
"These boxes are full of dirt and rat (excrement) and dead bugs. They have never been sitting in an uncontrolled climate,"

DNC headquarters, perhaps?

9 posted on 10/15/2004 2:50:15 PM PDT by Cult of Personality
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To: All

And where ARE Kerry's records???


10 posted on 10/15/2004 2:50:41 PM PDT by TexasTaysor
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To: ArmyBratCutie

AP filed to see there under Freedom of Information. Has any media outlet or other group done the same for Kerry's records?


11 posted on 10/15/2004 2:51:00 PM PDT by pieces of time (No longer the "silent" majority.)
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To: Sub-Driver

When is AP suing for access to Kerry's military records?


12 posted on 10/15/2004 2:51:17 PM PDT by freespirited
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To: Sub-Driver

Think AP will release them all ? Or only those not favorable to The President ?


13 posted on 10/15/2004 2:51:44 PM PDT by stylin19a (Of all the things i have lost in my life, I miss my mind the most.)
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To: Sub-Driver

It never ceases to amaze me what excites the un-American left in this country.

Still staining their pants over what might be in Bush's TANG records.

Yeesh. Get a life. Enough already.


14 posted on 10/15/2004 2:51:50 PM PDT by BlueYonder
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To: Sub-Driver

Can't be true. We've all been told he wasn't there so there was no training or flight logs. End of story.


15 posted on 10/15/2004 2:51:54 PM PDT by mtbopfuyn
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To: ArmyBratCutie

Yeah. Where is the AP article suing to get John F'ing Kerrys records?


16 posted on 10/15/2004 2:52:07 PM PDT by MCRD
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To: Sub-Driver

Looks like there is no there there & the URL at the end of the article doesn't work.


17 posted on 10/15/2004 2:52:39 PM PDT by GoLightly (If it doesn't kill ya, it makes ya stronger.)
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To: TexasTaysor

Kerry's records are sealed because he was in Cambodia.


18 posted on 10/15/2004 2:54:04 PM PDT by oyez (¡Qué viva la revolución de Reagan!)
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To: Sub-Driver
The 31 pages of documents turned over to AP Thursday night include orders for high-altitude training in 1972, less than three months before Bush abruptly quit flying as a fighter pilot.

Excellent news! This proves Bush had not been planning to stop flying. All flight crew have to re-qual in the pressure chamber every four years as part of recurrent flight physiology and survival training. That Bush completed the training proves he was not planning to "avoid flying" as the brain-dead MSM contend.

19 posted on 10/15/2004 2:54:28 PM PDT by pabianice
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To: GoLightly
that's suspicious
20 posted on 10/15/2004 2:54:50 PM PDT by Sub-Driver (Unelect All NJ Politicians....)
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To: atomicpossum

AP spun it as bad as possible for Bush, but still couldn't get much into it.


21 posted on 10/15/2004 2:55:00 PM PDT by San Jacinto
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To: Sub-Driver

If they can't dig more dirt on Bush's NG service, they are going to have to try a few more Abu Ghraib photos in the next two weeks.


22 posted on 10/15/2004 2:55:06 PM PDT by TomGuy (His VN crumbling, he says 'move on'. So now, John Kerry is running on Bob KerrEy's Senate record.)
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To: freespirited

I think the Wash. Post tried, but if he doesn't sign the 180, I don't think they can get them.


23 posted on 10/15/2004 2:56:31 PM PDT by Tom_Busch (Vote Bush/Cheney in 2004)
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To: oyez
Kerry's records are sealed because he was in Cambodia.

When Nixon was President.

24 posted on 10/15/2004 2:56:58 PM PDT by dfwgator (It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military.)
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To: pabianice
Hi altitude training eh...thats scary in those planes Bush flew...."widow makers" I believe they were called.

Must have the right stuff.

25 posted on 10/15/2004 2:57:10 PM PDT by spokeshave ( "I own a timber company? That's news to me!!" ... Ya need some wood?)
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To: pieces of time
AP filed to see there under Freedom of Information. Has any media outlet or other group done the same for Kerry's records?

Yes. The Washington Post, of all people, filed an FOIA request for Kerry's records as part of their reporting on the Swift Boat Vets for Truth controversy.

In the article, they reported that a.) there were over 100 pages of records on Kerry, but b.) only six pages could be released in the absence of Kerry signing an SF-180.

And there the matter stands. Apparently, the Post and their cohorts are afraid of what the other ninety-or-so pages might tell them...

26 posted on 10/15/2004 2:57:26 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: ARROGANCE & IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: oyez

Kerry's Mil. record==LETTERS OF REPRIMAND
Master Chief ret. Larry Gehlkin | 10/15/04 | greg mcclure

Posted on 10/15/2004 2:40:06 PM PDT by wildcatf4f3

Forget the discharge, what Kerry is hiding are the letters of reprimand.
TOPICS: Free Republic; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: FORM180; KERRY; USNAVY; Click to Add Keyword
[ Report Abuse | Bookmark ]
Speaking with my friend Larry, 27 years U.S. Navy, Master Chief, The focus on the discharge is a red herring. Officers being granted gentlemens rights, they are usually asked to resign their commissions. Their discharges may be uprated with time BUT any letters of reprimand are PERMANENT! It is these letters of reprimand that he does not want any one to see. Considering his behavior after his return from Viet Nam, one can only guess at how scathing they are. SIGN the 180 form.


27 posted on 10/15/2004 2:57:58 PM PDT by TexasTaysor
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To: Sub-Driver
These boxes are full of dirt and rat (excrement)

That's not the only Rat excrement in this story.

28 posted on 10/15/2004 2:58:15 PM PDT by dfwgator (It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military.)
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To: Cult of Personality
Rat poop and dead bugs huh.

I have a vision of Mapes swating flys and cockraches and Rather squeezing the s**t out of little white mice.

Too funny!

29 posted on 10/15/2004 2:58:30 PM PDT by timydnuc (I'll die on my feet before I'll live on my knees.)
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To: Sub-Driver; Howlin; Miss Marple; blam; Alas Babylon!; Quilla
The 31 pages of documents turned over to AP Thursday night include orders for high-altitude training in 1972, less than three months before Bush abruptly quit flying as a fighter pilot.

DING DING DING -- irrefutable proof that the RATHER docs were forgeries. Everyone knows they were, but this proves it. How could Bush be ordered to training if his flight status was taken away for disobeying orders. HuH HUH HUH?? Hello Lefties??? What is the silenece I hear.

30 posted on 10/15/2004 2:59:24 PM PDT by commish (Freedom Tastes Sweetest to Those Who Have Fought to Preserve It)
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To: Sub-Driver
Soiled by rats?

Sort of like the CBS documnents.

31 posted on 10/15/2004 3:02:09 PM PDT by TruthWillWin
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To: stylin19a
Think AP will release them all ? Or only those not favorable to The President ?

If any paragraph in those 31 pages were unfavorable to Bush it would lead every national newscast this very night.

32 posted on 10/15/2004 3:02:46 PM PDT by sinkspur ("If you disagree with me, you are a heretic. " Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: Sub-Driver

must be nothing in them since AP's headline is to infer a coverup Rather than an allegation about his service.


33 posted on 10/15/2004 3:02:55 PM PDT by Homer1
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To: Sub-Driver

Why can't they do the same for kerry's records?


34 posted on 10/15/2004 3:06:06 PM PDT by Inge C (,)
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To: Sub-Driver

I'm noticing a direct correlation between when items about Kerry's military record are brought up, something new about Bush's records appear magically.

It only goes to further collaborate that Kerry is trying to hide something by trying to change the subject.


35 posted on 10/15/2004 3:09:49 PM PDT by BushisTheMan
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To: Sub-Driver
The newly released documents shed no new light on the most controversial periods of Bush's guard tenure.

Duh.

I'm sure Kerry will now permit some GOP lawyers to crawl through his military records to see if (by chance) all his records haven't been released.

< /holding breath >

36 posted on 10/15/2004 3:16:20 PM PDT by Earl B.
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To: pieces of time; Timesink; martin_fierro; reformed_democrat; Loyalist; =Intervention=; PianoMan; ...
Media Schadenfreude and Media Shenanigans PING

And yet the buggy whip media denies being biased.

The AntiChrist will portray himself as the Saviour too.

We already know they LIE, why should they be honest about their bias?

37 posted on 10/15/2004 3:24:20 PM PDT by weegee (Ted Kennedy, your brother defined Vietnam antiwar protesters as traitors, giving aid to Ho Chi Mihn)
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To: commish
The Alabama unit's commanders say they never saw Bush or any paperwork showing he performed drills there. A January 1973 document says Bush got a dental examination at the Alabama unit's base. ^---

This is yet another lie; evidently the AP believes statements don't count unless THEY find them.

38 posted on 10/15/2004 3:28:27 PM PDT by Howlin (Bush has claimed two things which Democrats believe they own by right: the presidency & the future)
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To: Inge C
Why can't they do the same for kerry's records?

The ONLY reason the AP can sue under FOIA is because Bugh signed the 180 to release any and all documents concerning his service.

Kerry won't do that.

39 posted on 10/15/2004 3:29:42 PM PDT by Howlin (Bush has claimed two things which Democrats believe they own by right: the presidency & the future)
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To: Sub-Driver

Don't you wish they'd applied similar effort to finding the Rose Law Firm billing records? Or authenticating Vince Foster's "suicide" note and paramedic photos? Or Ron Brown's autopsy files?


40 posted on 10/15/2004 3:31:30 PM PDT by RightOnTheLeftCoast (You're it)
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To: Sub-Driver; stockpirate
So, as Bush was fulfilling his duties, Kerry and his VVAW cronies were aiding the enemy by releasing information about troop movement to the media, including the movement of the Air National Guard. And AP thinks the former, not the latter, is news. Incredible.
VVAW FBI Files, Section 17
page 95-102
re: Houston VVAW National Steering Committee Meeting

(snip)

Information was received from the "Intelligence Center" which is run by Mike Roche, VVAW Regional Coordinator, Cambridge, Massachusetts, and includes the "Ad Hoc Committee on U.S. Military Buildup in Indochina" which is composed of the "Chicago Area Military Project," the GI Movement people and the GI Press Services. The information was that 6 ships, 181 aircraft, and 11,000 personnel have been dispatched to the Republic of Vietnam (RVN); that 160 planes, 4 ships, and 5,500 hundred personnel are to be dispatched to RVN within 48 to 72 hours; that 5 ships, 115 planes, and 1,300 personnel to be dispatched in few days to unknown destination; that 21 ships, 173 planes, 8,500 personnel, have already been dispatched to destinations unknown; that 3 ships, 9 aircraft, and 26,000 personnel are to be dispatched soon, destination unknown, capabilities unknown; that 7 aircraft carriers, including the Saratoga, Midway, and Constellation, presently assigned in Gulf of Tonkin and armed with nuclear weapons; that a 400 man special operations unit similar to unit that raided Prisoner of War (POW) camps in North Vietnam, has been deployed, destination unknown; that major military installations in U. S. on alert. Intelligence Center obtained above information from active duty military personnel throughout U.S. Intelligence Center received "no comment" from Pentagon officials and Intelligence Center plans to release all information gathered to the press.

(snip)

VVAW concerned with mobilization of U. S. forces on global scale such as 7th Marine Division in Okinawa, Marines at Camp Pendleton, California; absence of F-104 jet fighters from east coast bases; absence of Cargo planes including C-5A Transports from Travis Air Force Base, California, and Air National Guard standby alert nationwide.


41 posted on 10/15/2004 3:32:35 PM PDT by calcowgirl
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I wonder if the same team of experts could look for my lost Army Reserve records! I've been trying for more than 15 years to get my complete set of records from the Reserves and only get a scant few documents. The recordskeeping of the Reserves/Guards is horrible.


42 posted on 10/15/2004 3:36:09 PM PDT by koba37
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To: Sub-Driver

More Dan Ratheresque forgies, only this time from AP


43 posted on 10/15/2004 3:37:59 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Sub-Driver

Oh! and I forgot to add something about forgery. AP should know something about rat schidt and rat schidt-soaked documents.....they generate it every day.......


44 posted on 10/15/2004 3:40:31 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: atomicpossum
This has been beaten to death. Geez - will they EVER GET A CLUE that nobody gives a rat's a$$ about this issue. There is nothing to see!

Are the Dems this desperate? I guess after the Mary Cheney comment - I'm thinking the answer is clearly - YES!!!
45 posted on 10/15/2004 3:40:44 PM PDT by dixiechick2
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To: calcowgirl
Good work! Check this beloow for some real food for thought.

VVAW distributes literature at an event that is used to collect intelligence on military tactics and methods in Vietnam. Considering the fact that the VVAW has meetings with the North Vietnam Communists and VVAW members travel to Moscow and Hanoi, this is a very serious matter. VVAW collects military intelligence concerning US tactics and methods in Vietnam War. To read the type of intell the VVAW was collecting from the Vietnam veterans go to page 51-57 of the link to the FBI files.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1241877/posts?page=1

46 posted on 10/15/2004 3:43:20 PM PDT by stockpirate (Kerry; supported by, financed by, trained by, guided by, revered by, in favor of, Communists.)
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To: calcowgirl

Good point!


47 posted on 10/15/2004 3:44:09 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: freespirited
EXACTLY!!!! Nobody in their right mind (which leaves out most of the Democrats) gives 2 cents about re-hashing Bush's National Guard record.

The BIG UNANSWERED QUESTIONS lie in the fact the John Kerry refuses to sign the document 180.

He is hiding something and we, as the American public, have a right to know everything in Kerry's military records.

John Kerry - SIGN THE 180 - don't be a girly man!
48 posted on 10/15/2004 3:44:54 PM PDT by dixiechick2
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To: calcowgirl

Leaders of the VVAW meet with Soviet KGB agents while Kerry is a national leader.


49 posted on 10/15/2004 3:47:11 PM PDT by stockpirate (Kerry; supported by, financed by, trained by, guided by, revered by, in favor of, Communists.)
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To: stockpirate; Fedora
Leaders of the VVAW meet with Soviet KGB agents while Kerry is a national leader.

Not to forget VVAW leaders going to Cuba to join the Venceremos Brigade, as well as trips to Hanoi, Paris, Stockholm, etc. I've been slowly reading through those files and get more irate every day that our media remains silent. (Of course, I see in the FBI files the names of our media on some of those same trips to Hanoi).

50 posted on 10/15/2004 3:53:43 PM PDT by calcowgirl
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