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Yellowstone Snowmobile Ban Struck Down
KSL Channel 5 TV ^ | 10/15/2004 | unknown

Posted on 10/15/2004 5:28:31 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity

CHEYENNE, Wyo. (AP) -- A federal judge on Friday struck down a ban on snowmobiles in Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks, calling it a "prejudged, political" move that sought to exclude the vehicles from all national parks.

U.S. District Judge Clarence Brimmer ruled that the Clinton-era ban was invalid because it did not involve adequate public participation and failed to follow federal law. His decision could clear the way for new rules that allow the machines.

The rule was "the product of a prejudged, political decision to ban snowmobiles from all the national parks," Brimmer wrote.

The National Park Service was expected to issue new snowmobile rules next month in time for the winter recreation season.

Gov. Dave Freudenthal praised the judge's decision, saying it recognized "the fundamentally unfair nature of the ban and ensured that citizens will get to see their national park."

Attorneys for snowmobile manufacturers, winter resorts and other tourism-related ventures asked Brimmer last month to permanently lift the ban so businesses could have peace of mind about their survival.

The ban, adopted during the Clinton administration and set to take effect last winter, was set aside in early 2003 by the park service to settle a lawsuit filed by snowmobile makers. Under the agreement, new rules were drafted to allow a limited number of snowmobiles inside the parks.

Brimmer's Washington colleague, U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan, later overturned the regulations and ordered the ban to begin this year. Brimmer set aside Sullivan's decision in February.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: enviralists; environment; freudenthal; grandteton; greenies; nancyboys; nationalparks; snowmobiles; treehuggers; yellowstone
The enviralists have been trying to shut down snowmobiling in northwest Wyoming for 25 years on the grounds of noise (wahh, they're going to disturb the buffalo and elk that have thousands of square miles to scatter to where the snowmobiles can't go) and pollution (which is infinitesimal, the air pollution indexes can't even get a reading). The ban was put in place by Klinton, who was probably well bribed to do it.
1 posted on 10/15/2004 5:28:32 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

Well, I'm a thousand miles away and have never ridden a snowmobile in my life (hate the things), but I still have to say...

Thank you God.


Many a small business will be saved if this ruling stands.


2 posted on 10/15/2004 5:30:01 PM PDT by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

They ~are~ noisy, and the last thing I want to hear in the wilderness... Only thing louder and more annoying are ORVs and dirt bikes.

~smiles~

But that's just me.


3 posted on 10/15/2004 5:31:17 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (<<<loves her hubbit and the horse he rode in on :~D)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

"a "prejudged, political" move that sought to exclude the vehicles from all national parks."
======
Many of us remember this type of authoritarian leftist scenario was very common during the time that Clinton held the USA hostage...government land grabs, restricting access and spending taxpayer dollars to buy up land for government ownership, without access to the people that really own it....I am sure this judge is NOT A LEFTIST ACTIVIST STOOGE...


4 posted on 10/15/2004 5:34:06 PM PDT by EagleUSA (wh)
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To: HairOfTheDog
I gotta stop reading these post titles too quickly. My eyes saw Yellowstone Snowmobile Ban Struck Down before I realized what the real title was.
5 posted on 10/15/2004 5:34:16 PM PDT by CatOwner
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

Huzzah!

I heard this this morning.

I hope to get up there one winter for a trip. get a cabin and snomobile. Its Freekin cold but I want to see geyser basin in winter.

All the wildlife moves in to take advantage of the heat from the geysers


6 posted on 10/15/2004 5:34:43 PM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

2 strokes rule!
I love my Polaris


7 posted on 10/15/2004 5:34:53 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: CatOwner

ROTFL! No that will be a totally different case ;~D


8 posted on 10/15/2004 5:35:31 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (<<<loves her hubbit and the horse he rode in on :~D)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

Good, this will get many a PETA freak's panties all twisted up.


9 posted on 10/15/2004 5:35:39 PM PDT by wolf24
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To: HairOfTheDog

President Bush wants to limit it to 4 stroke snomobiles vice the old 2 stroke noisemakers.

4 strokes are no louder than a car


10 posted on 10/15/2004 5:36:31 PM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
This Ruling SUCKS.

Yellow Stone and Grand Teton are National Treasures and should be preserved at ALL costs.

I surely don't want to see snow-mobile tracks and hear engines while I am in wilderness.

There are so many other places where these LOSERS can destroy, why should they have to exploit these two National treasures.

They would trash the place, destroy the peace, and disturb the wildlife.

This is terrible.

Hopefully, the next level of court system would reverse this asshole's ruling.
11 posted on 10/15/2004 5:37:57 PM PDT by The_Republican
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To: The_Republican

destroy?

The machines are intended for use on the roads there just like cars do all summer long


12 posted on 10/15/2004 5:39:27 PM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: The_Republican

You sound like someone that has actually been in the woods with these types. Me too, and I am on your side ;~D. These are National Parks, not ORV parks.


13 posted on 10/15/2004 5:41:04 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (<<<loves her hubbit and the horse he rode in on :~D)
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To: The_Republican

do you live near there?? do you go there often?? have you ever been there??

do you complain about the "thumper" radio systems in cars passing your house?


14 posted on 10/15/2004 5:42:12 PM PDT by cajun-jack
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To: The_Republican

I agree.


15 posted on 10/15/2004 5:42:33 PM PDT by ecurbh (Albatross!)
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To: HairOfTheDog

No one is suggesting that these parks be used for Off road activity.

Far more cars will pass thru every summer than snomobiles in winter.


16 posted on 10/15/2004 5:45:33 PM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
There is more to this story than you realize.

The Clintonista EPA types pulled a bait and switch on the manufacturers.

The EPA and the manufacturers were working in good faith to come up with emissions standards and this ruling came out of nowhere.

I have on a disk somewhere the remarks form a a Big Kahuna at Bombardier (Ski doo) and he was p*$$ed and spoke in a candor that is not often seen in our politically correct world.

At the heart of the buffoonery is the fact that "2 Stroke" engines can employ technologies such as semi-direct and Direct Injection (no one has chosen to use Orbital Engine's Air Assisted Direct Injection yet, IT is the best) that make them just as clean if not better than 4 strokes with good fuel economy.

The 2 Stroke engine is not dead yet, look at Mercury Marine's Optimax line of engines, Tohatsu's TLDI engines, and Aprilia's DI-Tech scooter engine.

17 posted on 10/15/2004 5:46:47 PM PDT by taildragger
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To: mylife
No one is suggesting that these parks be used for Off road activity

You are naive. Off-road is ~exactly~ what they do.

18 posted on 10/15/2004 5:48:06 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (<<<loves her hubbit and the horse he rode in on :~D)
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To: HairOfTheDog
Thank-You! There is nothing like our wilderness and people who have not spent time in it will never understand what they are losing.

There are so many other places where one can enjoy the rush of going fast on Snow, but it should not be in these precious parks.

There two kind of people, who get rush by making noise in middle of heaven, and those who are moved beyond words, just hearing the quiet and peace of those places. This is a sad day for the later.
19 posted on 10/15/2004 5:50:18 PM PDT by The_Republican
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: mylife

The two strokers are also notorious oil emitters. Any day now, I expect to see 2 stroke outboard motors banned.


21 posted on 10/15/2004 5:55:41 PM PDT by kylaka
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To: The_Republican
This is a business out there. Just like skiing is a business in vermont. You prevent them from snowmobiling you damage the businesses in the area.
Easterners have a real flair for subjugating large parcels of land to their rules, yet do not live by the rules themselves. The locals should be the ones to control the issue.
22 posted on 10/15/2004 5:55:59 PM PDT by ProudVet77 (W stands for Winner)
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: ProudVet77

Somethings should not be for sale. Yellow Stone is ONE OF A KIND. There is NO OTHER PLACE IN THE WORLD LIKE it. There are TONS of other places where Snow-Mobiling can be done. If few hundered jobs are lost, then it is STILL worth it to keep these parks in their natural state, AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.


24 posted on 10/15/2004 5:59:00 PM PDT by The_Republican
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To: kylaka
The two strokers are also notorious oil emitters. Any day now, I expect to see 2 stroke outboard motors banned.

As the other poster suggested, there are technologies coming to the fore that minimize (nearly eliminate) unburned hydrocarbons.

When I was a kid we mixed two stroke lubricant with the gas at a 1:16 ratio. Now I mix a sophisticated synthetic lube at 1:50. That alone eliminates the trailing blue fog, even without any internal engine modifications.

25 posted on 10/15/2004 6:01:50 PM PDT by steve86
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To: The_Republican

True wilderness is gone. It is not to be found even in Alaska.


26 posted on 10/15/2004 6:03:01 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
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To: Petronski

*** (I'm not always cranky.)***

LOL! I keep wondering, Petronski, what are you when you're not cranky. GRIN


27 posted on 10/15/2004 6:03:51 PM PDT by kitkat
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To: The_Republican
Tell you what. Next January, why don't you walk the 30 MILES from West Yellowstone to Geyser Basin in 10 feet of snow, in sub-zero temps, and let's not forget the wolves, and coyotes, who don't hibernate, or perhaps a real thrill, a mountain lion, and maybe a hungry grizz with insomnia... Remember, no guns on Federal land, and we'll look for your well-chewed bones in the spring...

Better yet, bring a friend, and you can become as famous as Alfred C. Packer, the noted Republican gourmet.

Remember to put bells on your pack and carry pepper spray, so when we find jingly wolf scats smelling of pepper, we can tell your next of kin.

Wanna-be Liver-Eating Johnsons are why there are rescue teams 24/7 in the High Lonesome.

28 posted on 10/15/2004 6:04:48 PM PDT by jonascord (What is better than the wind at 6 O'Clock on the 600 yard line?)
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To: ProudVet77

Locals neither own nor manage Federal land. It's the property of the people, not the few who happen to have found a niche nearby.


29 posted on 10/15/2004 6:06:06 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
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To: kylaka
Ky,

Read post 17, the 2 Stroke is not dead.

Mercury Marine and the Optimax system is so robust they have version that can run diesel fuel without being a diesel engine.

They have created a Spark Ignited Heavy Fuel Engine, that is a direct injected 2 stroke.

The application is "Military" for our guys.

The Brit's have one that can burn four fuels from a company called EP Barrows. It looks like a re-badged Totatsu engine but it is the same Orbital Direct Injection Process. Again a 2 stroke, and again for the "military".

30 posted on 10/15/2004 6:06:37 PM PDT by taildragger
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To: jonascord
Tell you what. Next January, why don't you walk the 30 MILES from West Yellowstone to Geyser Basin in 10 feet of snow, in sub-zero temps, and let's not forget the wolves, and coyotes, who don't hibernate, or perhaps a real thrill, a mountain lion, and maybe a hungry grizz with insomnia...

Well, people are there for a wilderness experience ;~D

31 posted on 10/15/2004 6:06:38 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (<<<loves her hubbit and the horse he rode in on :~D)
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To: The_Republican

In many ways I agree with you. A longtime hiker, have thousands of miles on my feet rambling over the rocks and screes and slickrock. The satisfaction derived from being able to travel effectively and efficiently for long periods in the wild is something few experience in today's fast-paced world.

However comma I mostly take issue in the way these policies (banning snomobiles) are enacted. In a country that prides itself on the democratic process, judges banning activities by fiat and similar legislation are part and parcel of the left's dominance of the public sphere. Whether it's a school board or city council, leftists outmaneuver the locals with tried and true methods. Public input isn't part of the equation, no matter how many public meetings are held. An end run around public opinion and desires is the goal. It is essentially a local issue being decided by special interest groups.

The fact is, Yellowstone is HUGE, and snomobiling is a long time wintertime activity in the area. There's a certain elitism inherent to the "environmentalists" that in aggregate is a very unhealthy phenomenon. Not everyone can
slap a pack on their back, or a set of skis, nor would even want to. Too, there are enormous Wilderness Areas designated throughout the region where all forms of motorized power are prohibited - even chainsaws. As citizens we have a myriad of recreational choices on public lands, there is room for all.


32 posted on 10/15/2004 6:06:39 PM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: jonascord
This is the WORST explanation that I have ever read for not preserving wilderness: WILD ANIMALS EAT PEOPLE
33 posted on 10/15/2004 6:08:09 PM PDT by The_Republican
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To: All

I enjoy Yellowstone N.P. very much. I think there should be a tightly controlled and monitored winter program. The animals should not be hazed or otherwise stressed because they use up important reserves for their winter survival. I've seen pictures where these ATV neanderthals have wandered off trail and the crap they do in the name of "fun". It just takes a few to spoil it for everybody.


34 posted on 10/15/2004 6:13:55 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rearview mirror.)
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To: The_Republican; ProudVet77
It's clear that many of you have never ridden a snowmobile and have no clue as to what "damage they do or don't do.

While there's a certain pleasure in blasting the mountains with a LOUD pipe, However, the new snowmobiles have very low noise levels compared to the machines built even 5 years ago. The Canadians have noise ordinances in place especially in Quebec where snowmobiling is BIG business. They check your machines and if you are out of compliance you get your sled impounded for the rest of the season and a pretty stiff fine to go with it. Further, most of the trails are not where there are going to be hikers or anyone looking to enjoy the unspoiled wilderness in the middle of winter anyway so what are you complaining about.

As far as pollution goes, the diesel engines from the RV's and buses that travel into Yellowstone and Grand Teton emit more noise and fumes than a late model snowmobile. So get a grip on yourselves and stop trying to rain on someone else's parade

35 posted on 10/15/2004 6:13:58 PM PDT by eeggler1 (Kerry is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America)
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To: The_Republican

Winter snowmobile traffic in Yellowstone is a very small fraction of summer car traffic...probably less than 5%.
Also, I believe the snowmobiles must stay on the roads.

My wife and I snowmobiled into Yellowstone park 2x over the past few years and it was unbelievably beautiful. In my opinion, Yellowstone is most beautiful in the winter.
Steaming geysers, snow shrouded bison...what a place!

I am a very happy man tonight knowing I will once again be fortunate enough to visit the park in the winter and experience it's beauty.


36 posted on 10/15/2004 6:14:23 PM PDT by ptlurking
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To: Freedom4US
Well Said! I know the leftist philosophy of getting around Democracy by using activist judges. I hate it and hope President Bush wins and we hold Congress and he is able to get some of descent people appointed as judges. However, I don't think that inability of some or even many to enjoy wilderness without destroying it, should be enough reason to destroy it.

Some of the old traditions started when the wilderness belonged to 'few' millionares, who demanded SAME luxury in wilderness as in their Mansions. It won't be such a great loss, if some of those traditions are allowed to expire.

JMHO.
37 posted on 10/15/2004 6:16:14 PM PDT by The_Republican
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To: The_Republican

Who are you to tell us how to live, out here? Standard Eastern tree-hugger goatroper propagandist, spends two weeks fishing in Wisconsin and can't tell a hackamore from a Silverbelly, and yet is an expert on the West and how it SHOULD be. Just like all these Kali flatlanders who buy 10 acres of scrub and calls it a ranch, and then whines when the family pet starts chasing cattle on leased BLM land and gets shot.


38 posted on 10/15/2004 6:26:18 PM PDT by jonascord (What is better than the wind at 6 O'Clock on the 600 yard line?)
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To: eeggler1
eegg,

You are right, What I posted about in post 17 I left one item out.

After going back and re-examining the metrics of the pollution level of sleds, It was found out that the original estimates by the Feds for the "Parks" were off by 90%!!!!!!!

That really got the sled makers P.O'd...

39 posted on 10/15/2004 6:26:32 PM PDT by taildragger
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To: The_Republican

Well, Mr. Republican, there are many who would like to ban ALL human activity in the parks. This would keep WINNERS like you out, so maybe it's not such a bad idea after all. So nice to see a self-proclaimed "The Republican" willing to inflict his views on others to their detriment. NOT!


40 posted on 10/15/2004 6:51:45 PM PDT by diogenes ghost
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To: The_Republican
This ruling is a hell of a lot easier on the land than the Forest Service's fire policies.

I don't buy your argument that this is destroying the wilderness. I'm from that area. I can tell you personally that snowmobiles have been ridden there for over 40 years and it hasn't destroyed anything. The places that they can go and the things that they do are very restricted. And, the snowmobilers are really good about following the rules because the situation is on a hair trigger and they don't want to do anything to get it shut down. This isn't about forest preservation, this is about a bunch of greenies who want this area for themselves. They have very successfully lobbied politicians who make the rules so that they can use the area the way that they see fit and run off everybody else. It's supposed to be "public" land, not "Sierra Club only" land.

41 posted on 10/15/2004 7:52:30 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Gun-control is leftist mind-control.)
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity

Wooo hooo!

Common sense and a beatch slap to the clintoons!

Life is good.


42 posted on 10/15/2004 10:18:39 PM PDT by MonroeDNA (In Islam, a woman can be married at any age even when she is a newly born baby.)
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