Question about Kerry's DD214

Kerry Campaign ^ | unk | usnavy

[Stopislamnow]

Some sharp cookie at Ted Nugent's site brought this up.

Why does J Effin Kerry's 214 indicate he was discharged as an Ensign, wasn't he a LTJG?

Someone? Anyone?

[Gibtx]

reduction in rank for conduct un becoming an officer

[Old Sarge]

PING?

[Faeroe]

Regular Navy rank vs. reserve rank?

[gortklattu]

ping

[Stopislamnow]

agreed, I'd go a step further and say treason, but the point is, this is from his site. Need to find quotes by him stating what rank he left the service as.

[kilowhskey]

I suspect that the 214 in question is the 214 he received when he left the enlisted reserves after completing OCS.

[TADSLOS]

Regular Navy rank vs. reserve rank?

Most probably.

[Stopislamnow]

ah, that must be it, false alarm, damn

[Mike Fieschko]

This is not a discharge.

This is the DD214 issued to Kerry when he completed OCS. He was commission as a LTJG.

Ensign is a commisisoned officer in the Navy, BTW.

Please also note that the document on Kerry's web site that you have excerpted is TWO separate DD214s, the first (which you have excerpted) from 1966, the second DD214 (page two of the two page document on Kerry's web site) is from 1970, when Kerry left active duty.

[counterpunch]

So he went from O-2 to O-1...
Interesting.
It looks like he was demoted.

[Stopislamnow]

no, his "medals" including the silver star with V are on it also.

I always was under the impression that reserve ranks were usually higher than active duty. At least in the army that was mostly the norm.

[Jewels1091]

I'm going to email my cousin who just got out of the Navy after 20 years and ask him....

[Stopislamnow]

thanks for clearing that up

[Polybius]

That particualr DD-214 is the one that Kerry recieved when he left Officer Candidate School (OCS).

He was then discharged from the enlisted ranks as an Officer Candidate (the equivalent of an enlisted E-5 rank) in order to be commissioned as an Ensign.

The record on Kerry's web page is far from complete and is designed to baffle the reader, not educate him.

Kerry Deceives News Media About His Navy Discharge on JohnKerry.com

[GoLightly]

I think that's for the end of his officer training, not the end of his active service.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

January 1, 1970 Kerry was promoted to (full) Lieutenant, USNR

http://www.archive-news.net/Kerry/JK_timeline.html

I have no idea what this could mean.

Officers don't end up "losing rank"

[Polybius]

So he went from O-2 to O-1... Interesting. It looks like he was demoted.

No. In that particular DD-214, he went from OCS Officer Candidate (E-5) to Ensign (O-1).

See Post 15.

[investigateworld]

Looks more ( in military lingo) "discharged to accept commission".
Old rules about being enlisted vs. and "officer and a gentlemen".
Keep looking though, the dates on what the Goofus has released aren't kosher so to speak.

[kabar]

This is from Kerry's first DD214, which was issued on December 15, 1966 when he was discharged as an OCIU2 (E-5) to accept a commission in the United States Naval Reserve. Kerry accepted his Ensign Commission on Dec 16, 1966.

[aft_lizard]

He was enlisted before he was an officer.

[aft_lizard]

There shouldnt be any difference between the reserves and active duty ranks.

This from when he went through basic training but hadnt gone through ocs yet, remember you are an enlisted member before you accept a commision as an officer.

[debboo]

Incorrect. I m not a Kerry supporter but... He attended a Naval Commissioning program. The day prior to his commission as an Ensign, he was discharged from his Enlisted position. An enlistment and a Commission are two different animals. He went from his Enlisted rank to an O-1.

[Faeroe]

I am thinking of Custer as an example of the difference between regular Army rank and reserve (?) rank. He made major general during the civil war, but his regular Army commission never went over lieutenant colonel.

[Polybius]

This from when he went through basic training but hadnt gone through ocs yet, remember you are an enlisted member before you accept a commision as an officer.

Actually, this was from when he went through OCS.

An OCS Officer Candidate holds an elisted rank equivalent to an E-5.

If he successfully completes OCS, he is commissioned as an O-1.

If he washes out of OCS, then he gets busted to E-1 and owes the Navy service in the enlisted ranks.

[Polybius]

I am thinking of Custer as an example of the difference between regular Army rank and reserve (?) rank. He made major general during the civil war, but his regular Army commission never went over lieutenant colonel.

That was back in the days of "brevet" rank.

Nowadays, rank is rank.

[Mike Fieschko]

Thanks for the correction.

[auusn]

I used to type these things when I was a Personnelman in the NAV. The first DD 214 Discharges him to accept a commission as an Ensign. If you look at the top of the 214, you will see his rank as OC (officer candidate). The second 214 discharges him as a Junior Goat (LTJG).

[Mortikhi]

Rank from Active duty to Reserve duty carries over.

In fact, alot of times, when you go to the Reserves from Active, the Reserves 'give' you a rank. That's what happened to me when I went Active to Reserves.

[Faeroe]

When I was in the Army, I served with a certain PFC/SP4 Griggs. She had a reserve commission, but was enlisted on active duty. I wonder where she is now.

[BIGLOOK]

Discharged from enlisted and reassigned to OCS. See post #10. This means nothing.

[igoramus987]

I've read somewhere that Page 1 in the pdf document is from just after his training, and Page 2 in the pdf document is from a later date (1972?).

Maybe the previous page of Page 2 in the pdf document contains something that he wants the public to know.

[El Gato]

This is the DD214 issued to Kerry when he completed OCS. He was commission as a LTJG.

No, he was commissioned as an Ensign. He made Lt. JG a couple of years later.

However his second DD-214 shows him separating from active duty as a JG, although his time line shows him promoted to full LT two days before his separation. That is decidedly odd, in two ways. First the that the DD-214 shows his rank as Lt. JG. and that he would have been promoted two days before his separation. Normally they require you to serve some period after a promotion, IIRC.

[El Gato]

January 1, 1970 Kerry was promoted to (full) Lieutenant, USNR

Or so he claims, however the DD-214 posted at his website shows his rank at separation as LTJG.

[El Gato]

If he washes out of OCS, then he gets busted to E-1

Or his original enlisted rank, whatever that might have been, if he/she was prior enlisted, either reserve or active duty.

[supercat]

Why does J Effin Kerry's 214 indicate he was discharged as an Ensign, wasn't he a LTJG?

Note that the cited portion of the form is produced by a rubber-stamp or equivalent, which would support the suggestion by others that this particular form was for his completion of OCS (since a lot of people would be completing OCS, it would be useful to have a rubber stamp for that).