Posted on 10/19/2004 5:44:26 PM PDT by Fishing-guy
Well, I am glad that you are as American as I am, and I am telling you this without the psychobabble.
"Still trying to tell people how to think and act?"
Ah, but isn't that how this thread started, by you condemning the Taiwanese people for taking up their native language, history, culture at the peril (in your opinion) of losing their "Chinese" culture? Why don't you allow the people of Taiwan to think and act as they choose and stop holding Chinese culture over their heads like a sword? In my opinion this is absolutely the most cynical manipulation of the Chinese culture and shows that there little real appreciation of the same.
Your post#51: "..in many respects Taiwan in general is a much better representation of traditional Chinese culture than China."
Well, which side do you stand?
Then again, you really don't need to follow my lead.
"Anything you see in Tokyo will be on display in the streets of Taipei within a few months."
If Chinese culture can't survive Hello Kitty, Totoro, Pokemon and a few slang words then you might as well turn off the lights and close the door. What about baseball and bluejeans? Or what about Christianity for that matter? I've seen lots of churches in Taiwan but don't recall seeing any shinto temples (at least actively used as such.)
"An ex-girlfiend's mom used to learn Japanese at the local LKK club that she hung out at."
And how common is that compared to people studying English? If you are concerned about diluting Chinese culture then perhaps you should work to ban English schools and get Westerners out of Taiwan.
It is interesting. I have found almost invariably that those people who are hyper-sensitive about Japanese cultural influence on Taiwan or exaggerate the same, are almost always looking for a justification to forcefully suppress the voice of the people of Taiwan. It almost never has anything to do with any real appreciation of Chinese culture.
"Well, which side do you stand?"
I am in favor of the people of Taiwan living their lives and enjoying all apsects of their cultural heritage, regardlesss of whether it is from before Japanese occupation, during Japanese occupation, before the arrival of Zhiang Zhe Shi or afterwards. I believe they should have the right to celebrate their culture without having parts of that culture held over their heads as a threat. I love Taiwan and believe the Taiwanese people have the moral right to decide their own destiny, whether it is independence or reunification, without threat of military aggression. I love traditional Chinese culture and can't stand to see it cynically manipulated by some in an attempt to supress the voice of the people of Taiwan.
Then you must be very upset with the Chinese communists and Taiwan independence movement supporters, because that is exactly what both sides are doing. I would read the article again.
Do you support the right of the people of Taiwan to choose their destiny, whether its independence or reunification, without threat of force? I do. If the Taiwanese don't like the policies of their ministry of education then they will elect other officials. This is called democracy. I suspect that the majority of Taiwanese will approve of some form of increased emphasis on the history and culture of Taiwan especially in light of the fact that this had been supressed for many years under the KMT.
Huh? When have I ever said anything in favor of 'supressing the voice of the people of Taiwan'? On the contrary, I stated that Taiwan should have been made an independant country after WWII. All of the current political problems in Taiwan can be traced directly to the KMT invasion of the island.
I am all for people of Taiwan's right to democratically decide their own future.
Of course, you also know about the political manipulation of the people of Taiwan and US by the Taiwan independence movement supporters, just like the Chinese communists.
Sorry, I must have gotten some messages mixed up or overreacted.
Can you give some examples of this?
"I am all for people of Taiwan's right to democratically decide their own future."
Good, then there is nothing to disagree about. Do you agree that they have the right to make that decision without military threat from the PRC?
"Of course, you also know about the political manipulation of the people of Taiwan and US by the Taiwan independence movement supporters, just like the Chinese communists."
Considering the relative power of these two group I would say that the PRC's one-China message certainly gets by far most of the airplay. The U.S. is probably the only major country in the world that will stand up at all for Taiwan. There has to be some place where the pro-independence voices can be heard outside of Taiwan since a significant portion of the Taiwanese population does in fact agree with this position. Most other countries in the world cower when China protests at even the most insignificant mention of Taiwan. To claim that the TI-movement has even a fraction of the power the the CCP to manipulate internal politics of the U.S. is laughable.
Give me a break. There are nuts in any group but the fact is that the vast majority of people in Taiwan who would support independence for Taiwan (if it weren't for military threats from the PRC) are just normal people trying to live their lives. To think that some fringe groups on the net are representative of the majority of Taiwanese who are in favor of self-determination is just silly and indicates how deeply you have bought into the steady stream of propoganda flowing out of the PRC.
You should keep in mind that the Taiwan Independence movement started during the Japanese occupation and during that time Mao supported the goal of Taiwan Independence. The Island and its people has been used for a pawn for long enough. They have more than earned the right decide their future.
It is difficult to answer this since you do not define what 'ethnically Chinese' means? Do you mean Han? Some in Taiwan are, some are not. Some are Chinese, some are aboriginals. Being ethnically Chinese has no meaning in the scope of the debate. Koreans and others are ethnically Chinese also. Others inside of China, specifically minority groups like the Hmong and Wa are not ethnically Chinese. Should they still be under Chinese control? What is your point?
Many of them also deliberately mix Taiwan independence movement with ROC vs. PRC issue to confuse people. Of course, the goal of Taiwan independence movement is to dissolve ROC. They want nothing to do with anticommunism.
The ROC on Taiwan was started when CKS invaded the island. Prior to that, the island was under Japanese control. If it wasn't for the "Cairo Declaration" Taiwan would be independant right now. When CKS came to Taiwan, were the people already living there given any say in if they wanted to be called the "Republic Of China"? Obviously not if you consider the 2-28 violence that left tens of thousands of Taiwanese dead at the hands of KMT troops.
It's well known that the radical elements of Taiwan independence movement have the backing of Imperial neo-colonial Japanese.
I have no idea if this is true or not but I can find a 'radical element' in any discussion. Even if it is true, what is your point? Another red herring.
If you really want to know about Taiwan independence movement, check the web. The web encyclopedia have an impartial description of Taiwan independence movement.
Can you recommend some websites? Silly me, I thought since I lived a few years in Taiwan I might know a little about it.
Status quo is independence.
The majority of people in Taiwan support status quo because they are afraid that the PRC will attack. Without the threat of military attack from the PRC the majority would of Taiwanese would certainly support independence. I believe that the people of Taiwan have the right to choose the destiny of their country without threat of military attack.
Status quo is not independence. Check the web.
You can do a web search under "Taiwan independence" and check any of those encyclopedia sites for an impartial description. I wouldn't want to be accused of sending you to one of those wacky sites.
Have you ever lived in Taiwan?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.