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Rebuttal for DNC Talking Points Needed
An American Mother

Posted on 10/20/2004 10:22:22 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother

I have a favor to ask, hope somebody can help.

Our riding instructor is a Democrat (ouch) but we're working on it.

She posted a chart on her office door that is obviously an Email from the DNC or some other Dem source. It purports to be a side by side comparison of economic conditions under Clinton and under Bush. It compares such things as unemployment rates, national debt, etc. It purports to cite Bureau of Labor statistics. It is uniformly good for Clinton and bad for Bush.

I KNOW the figures are wrong because the unemployment rate is shown as TWO PERCENT during Clinton's term and that can't be right. Other numbers seem to be grossly out of whack. I don't have a cell phone camera or any way to photocopy the chart.

Does this sound familiar to anybody? I intend to make a stealth post on the other side of her office door rebutting this material, if I can source it.

Thanks for your help. A lot of people come through this barn, and I don't want the obvious errors here to go unrebutted.


TOPICS: Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: democrats; economy
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 10/20/2004 10:22:25 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother
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To: AnAmericanMother

Send these url's to your e-mail lists and media contacts.

Media contacts in all 50 States

http://congress.org/congressorg/dbq/media/

Copy and paste this in your E-mail.
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NY Times and the Old Media
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There is a backup site
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We will not tire, We will not fail,
We WILL take down Hanoi Kerry Nov 2


2 posted on 10/20/2004 10:24:16 AM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (GET OUT THE VOTE NOV 2 ! IF YOUR NEIGHBORS OR RELATIVES NEED A RIDE TO THE POLLS OFFER TO HELP)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Hit the instructor with a joke:

Q: what's the difference between the DNC talking points and a bag of horse manure?

A: The bag!

If that doesn't work, whip some sense into the instructor with the horse whip! (just kidding)


3 posted on 10/20/2004 10:25:17 AM PDT by Heff ("Liberty is not America's gift to the world, it's the Almighty's gift to humanity" GW Bush 4/12/04)
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To: AnAmericanMother
fedstats.gov. You can find all kinds of government data there.

2% unemployment? That's an absolute lie. That's impossible. And Bush's 5.4% uneployment rate today is lower than Clinton's 5.6% rate when HE was seeking re-election.

4 posted on 10/20/2004 10:26:04 AM PDT by atomicpossum (If there are two Americas, John Edwards isn't qualified to lead either of them.)
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To: AnAmericanMother
The Heritage Foundation is a good place to start. Here is a shortened version of some of its work.
5 posted on 10/20/2004 10:28:53 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: AnAmericanMother

2% unemployment... That would have been amazing, but it did not happen. I recall the avg during Clinton's admin was 5.5%. Last report I heard was that unemployment remains at 5.4% currently.

Try Bureau of Labor Stats:
http://www.bls.gov/

I don't know where to find it, but earlier this year certain sectors in the economy were growing at 20 year records levels. Maybe someone else here remembers more specifics.

What other sort of things did the poster say?


6 posted on 10/20/2004 10:31:00 AM PDT by rebootd
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To: AnAmericanMother
Just cancel your periods instruction with her out of protest. Ride your horse in that hour on your own.

By the way, why do women have to yell so much at the stables? They yell whether they need to or not. The men don't. I always bring my ear plugs.

7 posted on 10/20/2004 10:31:42 AM PDT by elbucko ( Feral Republican)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Tell her that since so many people are in desperate needat this time according to the Democrats, it would be immoral for the Democrats to hide their secret to success so please tell us what was it they did to create such an economic boom? She will stutter and stammer around and ultimately point to paying down the national debt. This is when you hit her with:
A. This didn't happen until after the Republicans took over the Congress in 1994 with debt reduction their issue.
B. It was easy to do so since Clinton cut the size of the military and intelligence agencies using much of that money to decrease the debt.
C. Clinton included Social Security as taxable income.


8 posted on 10/20/2004 10:32:06 AM PDT by vigilence
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To: AnAmericanMother
There are all sorts of statistics and you can find them on the internet. The OMB website is first rate. Great charts, graphs showing endless data going back to the Revolutionary War era.

I don't know if this helps. The only fair way to compare Bush43 with Clinton, is to look at the first four years of the Clinton Presidency with Bush43`s Presidency. Under those standards, Bush43 wins hands down. And remember, in 1995 the GOP took over control of Congress after 40 years of Democrats running the federal government. It it wasn't for the GOP Congress advancing Newt Gingrich`s "Contract With America", welfare reform, the $500 child tax credit, cutting capital gains, regulatory relief and the anti-crime package wouldn't have been passed into law. The GOP accomplished many good things and Clinton basically went along for the ride.

9 posted on 10/20/2004 10:35:57 AM PDT by Reagan Man (.....................................................The Choice is Clear....... Re-elect BUSH-CHENEY)
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To: AnAmericanMother

I'm sure others will provide point-by-point rebuttals to the economic statistics. But I would suggest you answer your instructor as follows:

Clinton enjoyed good economic times and statistics, but please consider what he left President Bush:

1. The stock market bubble had burst (starting in March 2000) and was in full melt-down mode when Bush entered the presidency.

2. The economy was sinking rapidly at the end of Clinton's Administration and was going into recession around March 2001.

3. Corporate scandals (Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, Global Crossing, etc.) exploded shortly after Clinton left office -- they all had their roots and origins in the Clinton years. These scandals not only wiped out thousands of jobs, they also undermined investor and consumer confidence. The reforms that followed are probably a deterrent to and constraint upon job formation.

4. The terrorist attacks on 9-11-01 cost this country probably $1 trillion in lost productivity, loss in stock market equity, and required investments in anti-terrorism.

5. Clinton had done nothing and invested nothing in preparing this country to confront the gathering terrorist threat that was evident (and we have learned flourishing) during the Clinton years.

6. Finally, Bill Clinton left Bush with the ticking time bombs of a bankrupt Social Security system, Medicare/Medicaid, and other transfer systems that Clinton just kicked down the road for the next guy.

All of the above should be viewed as the "Bridge to the 21st Century" that Clinton promised... Some "bridge."


10 posted on 10/20/2004 10:36:51 AM PDT by ReleaseTheHounds
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To: AnAmericanMother
Tell the instructor:

"economic conditions" aren't going to amount to a hill of beans if he/she is dying from radiation poisoning because a dirty bomb going off somewhere because a terrorist daiperhead thinks a Kerry election means we will back out of the middle east democracy efforts.

This election transcends politics and policy, it's a life or death decision

11 posted on 10/20/2004 10:42:24 AM PDT by Popman (Democrat Party Political Values are Condescension, Hypocrisy, Bigotry)
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To: AnAmericanMother
Btw, Bill Clinton's record is a nightmare.

Clinton was impeached and fined $85K for committing purjury before a grand jury, lost a civil lawsuit to Paula Jones and had to pay her $300K in compensation, lost his law license for 5 years, engaged in unethical behavior on public property, reduced defense and intelligence spending to the lowest levels since 1940, made questionable deals with foreign countries, appeased North Korea, allowed OBL to escape capture several times. Clinton also worked to contain international terrorism, not eliminate it.

12 posted on 10/20/2004 10:46:31 AM PDT by Reagan Man (.....................................................The Choice is Clear....... Re-elect BUSH-CHENEY)
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To: Reagan Man

TWO PERCENT during Clinton's term ???
4% is considered "full employment"


13 posted on 10/20/2004 10:53:14 AM PDT by kaktuskid
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To: EdReform

Bookmarking


14 posted on 10/20/2004 10:55:10 AM PDT by EdReform (Have you seen FAHRENHYPE 9/11? - www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1240926/posts)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Economic Comparison Between 1996 And 2004

John Kerry is traveling the nation on his misery tour, inundating voters with his pessimism about America's economy. What voters may not realize, however, is that the growing economy that Kerry continues to talk down is remarkably similar to the economy Bill Clinton touted during his 1996 reelection campaign and that Kerry speaks of in glowing terms. Unemployment was 5.6 percent in May 1996, the exact same level as it is now. The average monthly payroll growth from January to May 1996 was 233,000 jobs, and from January to May 2004 the economy created an average of 238,000 jobs each month. Many key economic indicators are stronger today than in 1996, including GDP growth and homeownership.

President Bush's leadership has helped America overcome great challenges, including 9/11, war and recession. As a result of the President's pro-growth policies, America's economy today is strong and getting stronger-even stronger than Bill Clinton's 1996 economy.

Economic Indicator

1996

2004

Job Growth

 

 

Average monthly payroll growth (Jan-May)

233,000

238,000

Number of manufacturing jobs created (Jan-May)

15,000

91,000

Average number of individuals working part time due to economic reasons (First term)

5 million

4.3 million

Number of individuals working part time because they could only find part time work

May

 

 

1.725 million

 

 

1.467 million

Jan-May average

1.6 million

1.4 million

First term average

2 million

1.2 million

Percent of new jobs paying

Above the median average (Jan-June)

60%

60%

Below the median average (Jan-June)

40%

40%

Unemployment

 

 

Unemployment

May

 

5.6%

 

5.6%

Jan-May average

5.6%

5.6%

Unemployment rate for African Americans

10.2%

9.9%

Unemployment rate for Hispanics

9.6%

7.0%

Broadest measure of unemployment (U6, seasonally adjusted)

May

 

9.7%

 

9.7%

Jan-May average

9.8%

9.7%

Of those unemployed, percent unemployed less than 5 weeks

First term average

 

36%

 

36%

Jan-May average

36%

32%

Of those unemployed, percent unemployed 5-14 weeks

First term average

31%

31%

Jan-May average

31%

29%

Of those unemployed, percent unemployed 15-26 weeks

First term average

 

15%

 

16%

Jan-May average

15%

16%

Economy

 

 

Debt as a percentage of GDP

48.5%

38.6%

Average monthly inflation (First term)

2.8%

2.2%

Average GDP over most recent three quarters

3.1%

5.6%

Increase in real per capita after taxes

$980
(Jan 1993 - April 1996)

$1,900
(Jan 2001 -
April 2004)

Stock Ownership

Percent of all Americans

41% (1995)

49.5% (2002)

Households

40.6 million

52.7 million

Individuals

69.3 million

84.3 million

Consumer Sentiment (June)

Sentiment

92.4

95.2

Consumer Conditions

105.4

108.1

Expectations

84.0

86.9

Rate of bankruptcy filings.

 

17.9%
(March 1995-March 1996)

2.8%
(March 2003-March 2004)

Consumer credit as a share of household debt

First term average

21.4%

22.8%

First quarter

23.4%

21.2%

Percent of high school graduates who enroll in college

62%
(1995)

64%
(2003)

Percent of population who achieved bachelors degree

15.8%

17.7% (2002)

Homeownership

 

 

Homeownership rate (first quarter)

65.1%

68.6%

Housing Affordability Index (first quarter)

131.5

144.1

Quality of Life

 

 

Food Stamps program

 

 

Number of participating households (March)

10.7 million

10.3 million

Number of participating individuals (March)

25.9 million

23.8 million

Number of Americans without health insurance

Number of uninsured

41.7 million uninsured (1996)

43.6 million uninsured, (2002)

Percent of population

15.6%

15.2%

Average annual household expenditure for food away from home (constant 2002 dollars)

$2,240 per household or $877 per person (1998)

$2,276 per household or $910 per person (2002)

Number of cruise passengers (50% of whom earn between $20,000 and $59,000)

4.7 million

8.2 million

Percent of new one family homes with more than 2,000 square feet of floor-area. 

48%

57% (2003)

Charitable giving

$ 150.7 billion

$241 billion (70% of households)

Analysis

Job growth is as robust as it was in the mid-1990s. Average monthly payroll job growth for the last five months is stronger than during the same period in 1996. And contrary to Kerry's claim, the gross job growth is occurring in high-paying industries including manufacturing. On average, more Americans were in part-time jobs during President Clinton's first term than President Bush's first term. Kerry says that today's job growth is occurring only in part-time work and food service jobs, yet ignores Clinton's eight year record:

Unemployment

The unemployment rate is lower than the average of the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. The unemployment rates match President Clinton's during the exact same time periods.

Growth

Production has soared during President Bush's stewardship. Real GDP increased at an average 5.6% over the last three quarter, more than two percentage points faster than the comparable period of the Clinton Administration. Propelled by low inflation and middle class tax relief real after tax workers' pay has increased at more than twice the rate experienced at this point in the Clinton Administration, $1,900 under President Bush versus just $980 under President Clinton. Despite the stock-bubble bursting and mutual fund scandals, more American households own stock and mutual funds than in 1996. Where Kerry sees misery, consumers see progress and opportunity. Consumer sentiment is as high as it was in the mid-1990s and consumer expectations are strong as well.

Homeownership

Homeownership is at record levels and for the first time in our nation's history, more than half of all minorities own their own home. The National Realtors Association's Housing Affordability Index reveals that during the first quarter of 2004, the nation's typical household had 144.1% of the income needed to purchase a home at the median existing-home price, which was $170,800. In the first quarter, a median-income household ($54,517) could afford a home costing $246,100, which is well above the national median price of $170,800. In contrast, a median-income household could only afford a home with a median price of $145,000 in 1996.

Middle-income families are not only able to afford a home, but they're buying much larger homes. More than 57% of new home construction in 2003 were housing units larger than 2,000 square feet of floor area - up from only 48% in 1996. And today, despite Kerry's claims that middle-income families are more squeezed, families are spending more dining out, giving more to charity, and even going on more cruises - a vacation option once thought only available to the wealthy.

More To Be Done

President Bush has said that he will not rest until every American who wants a job can find one. He understands the difficulty of workers transitioning from old economy jobs to Innovation economy jobs which is why he has increased job training funding by 12% to $23 billion and raised support for Trade Adjustment Assistance by 150%. President Bush is determined, even with today's record homeownership levels, to close the gap between minority and non-minority homeownership. He has proposed the No Down Payment Mortgage and enacted the American Dream Downpayment Act to help thousands of families own their own home. The President's policies are working to strengthen our growing economy, train workers for high-paying jobs, and help Americans achieve their dreams.

Sources:
Jobs and Unemployment: BLS
Economy: Richard Rahn, "Tallying Presidential Economic Success," Washington Times, 6/18/2004; Equity Ownership in America, SIA and Investment Company Institute, 2002; Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts, 5/21/2004; U.S. Census Bureau, "Statistical Abstract of the United States," 1996 and 2003; BLS
Homeownership: Census/HUD; National Realtors Association
Quality of Life: US. Census Bureau Current Population Survey; Food and Drug Administration; National Restaurant Association; Cruise Line International Association; "The 'personalities' of cruise ships," MSNBC, 12/12/2003; Giving USA 1996, 2003

Source: Here

15 posted on 10/20/2004 10:58:34 AM PDT by Justin
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To: AnAmericanMother

Point out to them that:

1. The economy and the market started to turn down, starting March 2000, while Clinton was in office and Bush inherited the shrinking economy from Clinton.
2. Remind them of 9-11 and its impact on our economy.
3. Remind them of how Bush's tax cuts got us out of the recession and economy is growing again, and current unemployment is the same as under Clinton in 1996.
4. What do they think is going to happen to the economy, if Kerry won't fight the War on Terror and we get attacked.

5. Have them read this article:

Stern warning on Kerry from prophet of profit (Predicts economic disaster if Kerry elected)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1159520/posts


16 posted on 10/20/2004 10:58:36 AM PDT by QQQQQ (Defeat Kerry. Support the SwiftVets. Keep the ads on the air. http://www.swiftvets.com)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Anyone who thinks Clinton had anything to do with the great economy in the 90s just doesn't get it. The great economy was due to a couple of trends that came together like a perfect storm:

1) Y2k required every decent sized company to completely changed their entire technical infrastructures. Almost all software written and used by every company in the world had to be checked and fixed for the "millenium bug." Most invested heavily in new software and hardware and transitioned from 70s mainframes and 80s minis to client/server based ERP systems. Trillions were spent in a short time. That is why companies like SAP, peopleSoft, Oracle, SUN, etc., became such high flyers so quickly and also explains why shortly after Y2K, the economy began to crash and the NASDAQ was more than cut in half in just a few months.

2) The rise of the Internet caused trillions to be invested in new software and systems to take advantage of the new technology. All the telecom companies went nuts building capacity for all the new data. Equipment manufacturers like CISCO and Lucent couldn't keep up with the demand for all the new equipment to carry all that data. Full of Bull? Just ask DNC Chairman Terry McAullife how much he made off Global Crossing!

Hosting companies like Exodus sprung up from nowhere to become very large companies. Companies like eBay and Amazon sprung up to create whole new markets where non existed before.

3) The rise of the PC - Companies and homes alike spent trillions to buy PCs and software to take advantage of the new technology. Just look at when companies like Microsoft and Dell came into their own.

4) Republican control of the House (remember Newt) kept the brakes on spending and authored balanced budgets while the country reaped huge win-falls from the peace dividend resulting from the fall of the USSR (That you Ronald Reagan)

5) As the market began to rise trillions more flowed into the stock market from a whole new class of Americans known as the Investor class - this helped companies like Fidelity and Vanguard and alike to become enormous financial powerhouses.

I can go on and on and on.... never confuse the cow with the milkmaid.


17 posted on 10/20/2004 11:01:19 AM PDT by PajamaTruthMafia
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To: elbucko
Does her chart show how much of the "Clinton economic boom" was really dot-com bubble, CEOs cooking books and savings from gutting military and intelligence?
18 posted on 10/20/2004 11:02:49 AM PDT by snarkpup (Kerry is to national security what Clinton was to morality.)
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To: Justin

nice job - thanks for the info


19 posted on 10/20/2004 11:02:51 AM PDT by stainlessbanner (For Liberty!)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Unfortunately the fact of the matter is that to many people, statistics only matter if they support your opinion. Statistics that are false apply equally. I personally feel that the truth, for better or worse, is just that: the undisputable truth. Many people do not feel this way. Even confronted with facts and figures, they will cling to their opinions. Many times more tightly than before since it is now challenged.

I would recommend this: simply compile your own list and post it. I recommend the above posts as well as education reform statistics from the US department of education:

http://www.ed.gov/nclb/landing.jhtml

They have stats on the No Child Left Behind Act. Also you may try bringing up Kerry's senate record. Give a list of what he has voted for, against and what votes he hasn't even been there to cast. Incidentally, he's missed hundreds of votes just campaigning. Bush has not yet left a bill unsigned. You can find a broad list of votes at the senate website, but you can look around for a more condensed version. Bush's website has a few short lists. Try this as well:

http://data.bls.gov/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?request_action=wh&graph_name=LN_cpsbref3

It may not be what you're looking for, but it's a chart of overall unemployment rate for the US. Marked on it is the period of time after 9/11. During this time, consumer confidence dwindled, foreign investment plumetted and our stocks dropped, if you will remember. The unemployment rate is now a full percent better than after this recession. Please note that at no time, even in Clinton's administration, was it EVER 2%. 3.9% is the record low in the last 10 years which happened during the first year of Bush's presidency, if you will kindly note. I hope this helps.


20 posted on 10/20/2004 11:07:22 AM PDT by TrojanMan
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To: AnAmericanMother
File a lawsuit with the ACLU.

Claim the business is discriminating against you because of your political beliefs.

Hold a protest outside the barn and invite the local media cameras to photograph the affair.

Start a letter writing and telephone campaign to force all of your instructor's paying students to quit the program.

Research and dig up some particularly juicy gossip about some of your instructor's more embarrassing indiscretions - prepare a media campaign to debunk the chart on her door by highlighting these juicy bits of gossip.


However, please don't attempt to debunk the chart on her door with factual information. It will only confuse her.

21 posted on 10/20/2004 11:11:16 AM PDT by been_lurking
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To: AnAmericanMother

Print this out to give to her:

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/downloads-pdfs/InternalSenateReportOnKerryPolicyProposals.pdf


22 posted on 10/20/2004 11:12:50 AM PDT by jcb8199
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To: AnAmericanMother

You should point out that unemployment during Clinton's 1st term when he was running for reelection was at 5.6% and that unemployment is currently at 5.4%


23 posted on 10/20/2004 11:15:41 AM PDT by Tempest (Click on my name for a long list of press contacts)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Did you go to the Bureau of Labor site yourself, and view them? That would be a good way to verify the numbers.


24 posted on 10/20/2004 11:18:57 AM PDT by stuartcr (Neither - Nor in '04....Who ya gonna hate in '08)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Tell her that Clinton isn't running for President, just in case she's stuck in a time warp.

Ask her this, If Bubba would've taken Bin Laden the 3rd time he was offered to us, would the Twin Towers still be standing, 3000 people still be alive, and does it matter to her. If NO, slap her and withdraw from the class.. She's too stupid to teach anyone anything. If Yes, tell her to take the frikken sign down, or you'll cancel your class and encourage others to do the same.

Liberals love a genocide, but now their murder party is over.


25 posted on 10/20/2004 11:24:02 AM PDT by JesseJane (~On November 2, keep in mind what mattered most on 9-11.~)
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To: Reagan Man

bump!


26 posted on 10/20/2004 11:45:39 AM PDT by jonno (We are NOT a democracy - though we are democratic. We ARE a constitutional republic.)
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To: Justin

Thank you for such a concise, comprehensive tabulation.

I know I can sure use it on a few relatives.


27 posted on 10/20/2004 11:50:59 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
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To: AnAmericanMother

http://www.citizensunited.org/images/citizens_FINAL_061604.mov

Citizens United Launches New Anti-Clinton Ad Campaign
to Air during “60 Minutes” Interview
http://www.citizensunited.org/

Amidst the hype surrounding the release of former President Clinton’s new book, “My Life”, Citizens United sets the record straight by exposing the real legacy President Bill Clinton left for America.

The former President will be publicizing his new memoir during his first televised interview to CBS’ “60 Minutes” on Sunday, June 20, 2004.

The Citizens United ad, which was to debut during the interview, shows multiple images of terrorist attacks throughout Clinton’s presidency that he failed to respond to, including: the World Trade Center bombings in 1993, the Khobar Towers bombing in 1996 the dual embassy bombings in East Africa in 1998, and the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole in 2000.

President Clinton gutted defense and intelligence spending and was MIA for eight years while terrorists continuously attacked the United States. Consequently, President Bush inherited a decayed intelligence apparatus and a terrorist network, already living among Americans, that was planning the largest attack ever on U.S. soil.

Citizens United believes America needs a strong leader in the War on Terror, and President Bush has proved that his steadfast and principled leadership is crucial to defeat our enemies for this generation and generations to come.

View the ad in Quicktime format
View the ad in RealPlayer format

Read the script


28 posted on 10/20/2004 12:01:09 PM PDT by JesseJane (~On November 2, keep in mind what mattered most on 9-11.~)
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To: JesseJane
Here's something to paste on her door.

Clinton Spent More Time with Lewinsky than Tenet

April 14, 2004

At the top of the program, I wondered, "I'll bet if you look at the records, they'll show that Bill Clinton spent more time with Monica Lewinsky than he did the CIA director. I will bet you that that can be established. If he met with Tenet twice, and that's the story, if he met with Tenet personally twice during Tenet's career as CIA director when Clinton served, then it's easily ascertainable that he met with Lewinsky much more than that."

Well, a few minutes later I got a flash e-mail from our old buddy Carl Limbacher at Newsmax: "Dear Rush: Responding to your on-air query about the CIA or Lewinsky, who had more access to Clinton, the very day that Sudanese officials were in Washington trying to hand off Osama bin Laden to the Clinton CIA, Clinton himself was meeting with Monica Lewinsky in the White House. In his book 'Losing Bin Laden', Richard Miniter reports that on March 10th, 1996, Sudanese defense minister Elfatih Erwa, traveled to Washington to meet with CIA officials to discuss turning over bin Laden. Where should we send him, Irwah asked the unnamed CIA representative. However, Bill Clinton wasn't on hand to broker the deal for bin Laden's arrest. The Starr report shows that on the same day, March 10th, Clinton was meeting with Monica Lewinsky and one of her friends in the White House."

From the Starr report: "On March 10, 1996, Ms. Lewinsky took a visiting friend, Natalie Ungvari, to the White House. They bumped into the President, who said to Ms. Ungvari when Ms. Lewinsky introduced them: 'You must be her friend from California.' Ms. Ungvari was 'shocked' that the President knew where she was from."

Since their relationship was technically on hiatus at the time, Clinton and Lewinsky didn't have sex that day, but the ice was thawing. On March 29th, 1996, Bill and Monica resumed their physical relationship. Meanwhile, Osama bin Laden was making preparations to leave Sudan for Afghanistan. So it's a relevant question, my friends.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reprinted from NewsMax.com

Saturday, April 3, 2004 12:33 p.m. EST

Bin Laden Arrest Offer Spurned as Clinton Met Lewinsky

http://www.newsmax.com/cgi-bin/printer_friendly.pl?page=http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/4/3/123551.shtml

At least two offers from the government of Sudan to arrest Osama bin Laden and turn him over to the U.S. were rebuffed by the Clinton administration in February and March of 1996, a period of time when the former president's attention was distracted by his intensifying relationship with White House intern Monica Lewinsky.

One of the offers took place during a secret meeting in Washington, the same day Clinton was meeting with Lewinsky in the White House just miles away.

On Feb. 6, 1996, then-U.S. Ambassador to the Sudan Tim Carney met with Sudanese Foreign Minister Ali Osman Mohammed Taha at Taha's home in the capital city of Khartoum. The meeting took place just a half mile from bin Laden's residence at the time, according to Richard Miniter's book "Losing bin Laden."

During the meeting, Carney reminded the Sudanese official that Washington was increasingly nervous about the presence of bin Laden in Sudan, reports Miniter.

Foreign Minister Taha countered by saying that Sudan was very concerned about its poor relationship with the U.S. Then came the bombshell offer: "If you want bin Laden, we will give you bin Laden," Foreign Minister Taha told Ambassador Carney. Still, with the extraordinarily fortuitous offer on the table, back in Washington President Clinton had other things on his mind.

A timeline of events chronicled in the Starr Report shows that during the period of late January through March 1996, Mr. Clinton's relationship with Monica Lewinsky was then at its most intense.

On Feb. 4, 1996, for instance - two days before Ambassador Carney's key meeting with the Sudanese Foreign Minister, the president was focused not on Osama bin Laden, but instead on the 23-year-old White House intern.

Their rendezvous that day included a sexual encounter followed by a leisurely chat between Clinton and Lewinsky, as the two "sat and talked [afterward] for about 45 minutes," according to the Starr Report.

Later in the afternoon that same day, as Sudanese officials weighed their decision to offer bin Laden to the U.S., Clinton found time to call Lewinsky "[to say] he had enjoyed their time together." If there were any calls from Clinton to the State Department or Khartoum that day, the records have yet to surface in published reports.

The Feb. 4 encounter with Lewinsky followed a period of intense contact detailed in the Starr report in interviews with the former White House intern, including a sexual encounter on Jan. 6, 1996, several sessions of phone sex during the week of Jan. 14 - 21, and another sexual encounter on Jan. 21.

Sudan's offer to the U.S. for bin Laden's extradition remained on the table for at least a month, and was reiterated by Sudanese officials who traveled to Washington as late as March 10, 1996.

On March 3, Sudan's Minister of State for Defense Elfatih Erwa met secretly with Ambassador Carney, another State Department official and the CIA's Africa bureau Director of Operations at an Arlington, Va., hotel, according to Miniter's book.

Erwa was handed a list of issues the U.S. wanted taken care of if relations were to improve. The list included a demand for information on bin Laden's terrorist network inside Sudan.

Erwa replied that he would have to consult with Sudan's President Omar Hassan al-Bashir about the list. When he returned for a March 10, 1996 meeting with the CIA's Africa bureau chief, "Erwa would be empowered to make an extraordinary offer," writes Miniter.

On instructions from its president, the government of Sudan agreed to arrest bin Laden and hand him over to U.S law enforcement at a time and place of the Clinton administration's choosing. "Where should we send him?" Erwa asked the CIA representative.

President Clinton has acknowledged being fully briefed on the Sudanese efforts to turn over the 9/11 mastermind, admitting that he made the final decision to turn the offer down.

"The Sudanese wanted America to start dealing with them again," Clinton confirmed during a February 2002 speech to a New York business group.

"They released him. At the time, 1996, he had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here because we had no basis on which to hold him, though we knew he wanted to commit crimes against America."

As chronicled in the Starr report, however, Clinton's relationship with Lewinsky proved to be a growing distraction around this time.

Two weeks before the secret meeting between Erwa, Carney and the CIA bureau chief, the president summoned Lewinsky to the White House to inform her that he "no longer felt right" about their relationship and it would have to be suspended until after the election.

Lewinsky explained, however, that Clinton's decision to put their relationship on hold did little to change its basic character, telling Starr's investigators, "There'd continue to be this flirtation when we'd see each other."

The Starr report noted, "In late February or March [1996], the president telephoned her at home and said he was disappointed that, because she had already left the White House for the evening, they could not get together."

The call, Lewinsky said, "sort of implied to me that he was interested in starting up again."

On March 10, 1996, as Sudanese Defense Minister Erwa was making his extraordinary offer for bin Laden's arrest to the CIA's Africa bureau chief, Clinton met with Lewinsky in the White House.

The Starr report:

"On March 10, 1996, Ms. Lewinsky took a visiting friend, Natalie Ungvari, to the White House. They bumped into the president, who said when Ms. Lewinsky introduced them, 'You must be her friend from California.' Ms. Ungvari was 'shocked' that the president knew where she was from."

Though there was no physical contact that day, three weeks later, on March 31, 1996, Clinton resumed his sexual relationship with Lewinsky.

It was around this time, the president later admitted, that he was involved in delicate negotiations to try to persuade Riyadh to take bin Laden, after refusing to accept his extradition to the U.S.

"I pleaded with the Saudis to take him, 'cause they could have," Clinton admitted in the 2002 speech. "But they thought it was a hot potato and they didn't and that's how he wound up in Afghanistan."

On April 7, 1996, Monica Lewinsky was transferred to the Pentagon. Around the same time, the administration's hunt for bin Laden finally seemed to begin in earnest. Just weeks after Clinton spurned Sudan's bin Laden offer, for instance, the CIA created a separate operational unit dedicated to tracking down bin Laden in Sudan.

But it happened too late to capture the 9/11 mastermind. On May 18, 1996, bin Laden boarded a chartered plane in Khartoum with his wives, children, some 150 al-Qaida jihadists and a cache of arms - and flew off to Jalalabad, Afghanistan.

To hear NewsMax.com's exclusive audio recording of ex-President Clinton explaining why he turned the Sudanese offer down, Click Here.

29 posted on 10/20/2004 12:05:05 PM PDT by JesseJane (~On November 2, keep in mind what mattered most on 9-11.~)
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To: Justin

Sweet!


30 posted on 10/20/2004 12:08:16 PM PDT by Howlin (Bush has claimed two things which Democrats believe they own by right: the presidency & the future)
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To: 1stMarylandRegiment; 1Mike; 3catsanadog; ~Vor~; ~Kim4VRWC's~; A CA Guy; A Citizen Reporter; ...

Post #15 for reference!


31 posted on 10/20/2004 12:09:21 PM PDT by Howlin (Bush has claimed two things which Democrats believe they own by right: the presidency & the future)
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To: Justin; Howlin

The unemployment rate is now only 5.4%.

32 posted on 10/20/2004 12:12:26 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Mark fo Save


33 posted on 10/20/2004 12:14:36 PM PDT by UB355
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To: Justin; Howlin

Thanks ... This one is going out in an email also!


34 posted on 10/20/2004 12:14:52 PM PDT by Mo1 (This Sept 10th attitude is no way to protect our country)
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To: Howlin

thanks Howlin.


35 posted on 10/20/2004 12:56:57 PM PDT by iceskater (France & Germany=old Europe; CBS & NYT = old media)
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: Justin; Howlin

What an awesome source! Thanks so much.

I'm going to work on a letter to the editor using those facts.

Freepers are the best.


37 posted on 10/20/2004 1:07:33 PM PDT by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Howlin

Thanks- that's exactly what I was hoping to show up!


38 posted on 10/20/2004 1:11:04 PM PDT by backhoe (Just a Keyboard Cowboy, ridin' the Trackball into the Dawn of Information...)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Every topic under the sun is in these fact sheets listed from newest to oldest:

http://www.gop.com/News/NewsList.aspx?ID=16


39 posted on 10/20/2004 1:13:01 PM PDT by ride the whirlwind (Poor John Kerry, he can't help it. He was born with a silver flip-flop in his mouth.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Just mark the timelines for when the market started down, when the recession began, 9/11 and WHEN BUSH'S FIRST BUDGET WENT INTO EFFECT. Essentially the first year of Bush's presidency was WJC's economy.


40 posted on 10/20/2004 1:13:15 PM PDT by WildTurkey
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To: dlong514
This method fails to take into account those people who have left wage-earning jobs and taken up self employment in small business.

The trend has been towards the formation of more small businesses and so, much more self-employment.

Also, the 5.4% is Bush's 2004 figure- 5.6% is Clinton's 1996 figure.

41 posted on 10/20/2004 1:16:38 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude Adjustments Offered Here Free of Charge)
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: Howlin

Thanks for the ping


43 posted on 10/20/2004 1:36:11 PM PDT by firewalk
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To: AnAmericanMother

bump for later read

See the anti-DNC portal at http://www.noDNC.com


44 posted on 10/20/2004 3:04:43 PM PDT by woodb01 (Take out the 'dnC'BS "news" trash... SEE ---> http://www.noDNC.com)
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To: AnAmericanMother

I have argued with Dems. most of my life. Their stats mean something that you can't refute but yours mean nothing to them. They have to be shown pictures.

We have had a huge building boom since Bush took office of housing, new restaurants, new huge grocery stores, new medical offices, new bank buildings, ect.

Focus on your local area, take pictures and make a poster. Especially, anything you can think of that is new regarding her riding stables. She can't refute pictures of new buildings and jobs that the construction creates. Title your poster as how President Bush has helped (town name).


45 posted on 10/20/2004 3:33:22 PM PDT by texastoo (a "has-been" Republican)
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To: AnAmericanMother

I have argued with Dems. most of my life. Their stats mean something that you can't refute but yours mean nothing to them. They have to be shown pictures.

We have had a huge building boom since Bush took office of housing, new restaurants, new huge grocery stores, new medical offices, new bank buildings, ect.

Focus on your local area, take pictures and make a poster. Especially, anything you can think of that is new regarding her riding stables. She can't refute pictures of new buildings and jobs that the construction creates. Title your poster as how President Bush has helped (town name).


46 posted on 10/20/2004 3:35:27 PM PDT by texastoo (a "has-been" Republican)
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To: texastoo

Thanks! (and you can say that again! worth saying twice! < g > )


47 posted on 10/20/2004 3:41:25 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of ye Chace (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
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To: PajamaTruthMafia
2) The rise of the Internet caused trillions to be invested in new software and systems to take advantage of the new technology. All the telecom companies went nuts building capacity for all the new data. Equipment manufacturers like CISCO and Lucent couldn't keep up with the demand for all the new equipment to carry all that data. Full of Bull? Just ask DNC Chairman Terry McAullife how much he made off Global Crossing!

Equipment purchases are just the tip of the internet boom iceberg. The real business explosion due to the internet was a result of businesses being able to find other businesses to work with, and customers finding vendors and vice versa, like never before. For the first time in history, millions of people (in businesses and out) could easily locate (and then immediately contact) the supplies, products, providers, workers, and customers they wanted via a quick computer search.

Looking for a left-handed square-holed widget? Do a quick web search and within seconds find a company selling them in Kermit, West Virginia. Want to buy a company which makes plastic penguins to round out your firm's product line? Do a web search. Need to research anything about anything? Hit Google. Fifteen years ago you'd have had to spend days in the library and on the phone, trying (and often failing) to find the info you needed -- or just do without and have your company limp along as best you could.

Yet another factor is that companies have saved trillions on advertising and information flyers and manuals and... "See our website" has replaced countless advertising billboards, sales brochures, printed manuals, weekly flyers, etc. etc. etc.

The internet absolutely revolutionized most of the ways that companies do business, and made them cheaper and more efficient. And it's incredible how quickly we've come to take it for granted.

48 posted on 10/20/2004 3:43:19 PM PDT by Ichneumon ("...she might as well have been a space alien." - Bill Clinton, on Hillary, "My Life", p. 182)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Your welcome, twice!


49 posted on 10/20/2004 3:46:30 PM PDT by texastoo (a "has-been" Republican)
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To: Howlin
Sorry. Jim and Dales decided to ban me, again, so I don't have much to say.

It seems I don't like being pusjed aside for Dales.

50 posted on 10/20/2004 4:31:28 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty ( 2004, Ravin' Lunatic since 4/98)
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