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Rebuttal for DNC Talking Points Needed
An American Mother

Posted on 10/20/2004 10:22:22 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother

I have a favor to ask, hope somebody can help.

Our riding instructor is a Democrat (ouch) but we're working on it.

She posted a chart on her office door that is obviously an Email from the DNC or some other Dem source. It purports to be a side by side comparison of economic conditions under Clinton and under Bush. It compares such things as unemployment rates, national debt, etc. It purports to cite Bureau of Labor statistics. It is uniformly good for Clinton and bad for Bush.

I KNOW the figures are wrong because the unemployment rate is shown as TWO PERCENT during Clinton's term and that can't be right. Other numbers seem to be grossly out of whack. I don't have a cell phone camera or any way to photocopy the chart.

Does this sound familiar to anybody? I intend to make a stealth post on the other side of her office door rebutting this material, if I can source it.

Thanks for your help. A lot of people come through this barn, and I don't want the obvious errors here to go unrebutted.

TOPICS: Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: democrats; economy
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1 posted on 10/20/2004 10:22:25 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother
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To: AnAmericanMother

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2 posted on 10/20/2004 10:24:16 AM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (GET OUT THE VOTE NOV 2 ! IF YOUR NEIGHBORS OR RELATIVES NEED A RIDE TO THE POLLS OFFER TO HELP)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Hit the instructor with a joke:

Q: what's the difference between the DNC talking points and a bag of horse manure?

A: The bag!

If that doesn't work, whip some sense into the instructor with the horse whip! (just kidding)

3 posted on 10/20/2004 10:25:17 AM PDT by Heff ("Liberty is not America's gift to the world, it's the Almighty's gift to humanity" GW Bush 4/12/04)
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To: AnAmericanMother You can find all kinds of government data there.

2% unemployment? That's an absolute lie. That's impossible. And Bush's 5.4% uneployment rate today is lower than Clinton's 5.6% rate when HE was seeking re-election.

4 posted on 10/20/2004 10:26:04 AM PDT by atomicpossum (If there are two Americas, John Edwards isn't qualified to lead either of them.)
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To: AnAmericanMother
The Heritage Foundation is a good place to start. Here is a shortened version of some of its work.
5 posted on 10/20/2004 10:28:53 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: AnAmericanMother

2% unemployment... That would have been amazing, but it did not happen. I recall the avg during Clinton's admin was 5.5%. Last report I heard was that unemployment remains at 5.4% currently.

Try Bureau of Labor Stats:

I don't know where to find it, but earlier this year certain sectors in the economy were growing at 20 year records levels. Maybe someone else here remembers more specifics.

What other sort of things did the poster say?

6 posted on 10/20/2004 10:31:00 AM PDT by rebootd
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To: AnAmericanMother
Just cancel your periods instruction with her out of protest. Ride your horse in that hour on your own.

By the way, why do women have to yell so much at the stables? They yell whether they need to or not. The men don't. I always bring my ear plugs.

7 posted on 10/20/2004 10:31:42 AM PDT by elbucko ( Feral Republican)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Tell her that since so many people are in desperate needat this time according to the Democrats, it would be immoral for the Democrats to hide their secret to success so please tell us what was it they did to create such an economic boom? She will stutter and stammer around and ultimately point to paying down the national debt. This is when you hit her with:
A. This didn't happen until after the Republicans took over the Congress in 1994 with debt reduction their issue.
B. It was easy to do so since Clinton cut the size of the military and intelligence agencies using much of that money to decrease the debt.
C. Clinton included Social Security as taxable income.

8 posted on 10/20/2004 10:32:06 AM PDT by vigilence
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To: AnAmericanMother
There are all sorts of statistics and you can find them on the internet. The OMB website is first rate. Great charts, graphs showing endless data going back to the Revolutionary War era.

I don't know if this helps. The only fair way to compare Bush43 with Clinton, is to look at the first four years of the Clinton Presidency with Bush43`s Presidency. Under those standards, Bush43 wins hands down. And remember, in 1995 the GOP took over control of Congress after 40 years of Democrats running the federal government. It it wasn't for the GOP Congress advancing Newt Gingrich`s "Contract With America", welfare reform, the $500 child tax credit, cutting capital gains, regulatory relief and the anti-crime package wouldn't have been passed into law. The GOP accomplished many good things and Clinton basically went along for the ride.

9 posted on 10/20/2004 10:35:57 AM PDT by Reagan Man (.....................................................The Choice is Clear....... Re-elect BUSH-CHENEY)
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To: AnAmericanMother

I'm sure others will provide point-by-point rebuttals to the economic statistics. But I would suggest you answer your instructor as follows:

Clinton enjoyed good economic times and statistics, but please consider what he left President Bush:

1. The stock market bubble had burst (starting in March 2000) and was in full melt-down mode when Bush entered the presidency.

2. The economy was sinking rapidly at the end of Clinton's Administration and was going into recession around March 2001.

3. Corporate scandals (Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, Global Crossing, etc.) exploded shortly after Clinton left office -- they all had their roots and origins in the Clinton years. These scandals not only wiped out thousands of jobs, they also undermined investor and consumer confidence. The reforms that followed are probably a deterrent to and constraint upon job formation.

4. The terrorist attacks on 9-11-01 cost this country probably $1 trillion in lost productivity, loss in stock market equity, and required investments in anti-terrorism.

5. Clinton had done nothing and invested nothing in preparing this country to confront the gathering terrorist threat that was evident (and we have learned flourishing) during the Clinton years.

6. Finally, Bill Clinton left Bush with the ticking time bombs of a bankrupt Social Security system, Medicare/Medicaid, and other transfer systems that Clinton just kicked down the road for the next guy.

All of the above should be viewed as the "Bridge to the 21st Century" that Clinton promised... Some "bridge."

10 posted on 10/20/2004 10:36:51 AM PDT by ReleaseTheHounds
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To: AnAmericanMother
Tell the instructor:

"economic conditions" aren't going to amount to a hill of beans if he/she is dying from radiation poisoning because a dirty bomb going off somewhere because a terrorist daiperhead thinks a Kerry election means we will back out of the middle east democracy efforts.

This election transcends politics and policy, it's a life or death decision

11 posted on 10/20/2004 10:42:24 AM PDT by Popman (Democrat Party Political Values are Condescension, Hypocrisy, Bigotry)
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To: AnAmericanMother
Btw, Bill Clinton's record is a nightmare.

Clinton was impeached and fined $85K for committing purjury before a grand jury, lost a civil lawsuit to Paula Jones and had to pay her $300K in compensation, lost his law license for 5 years, engaged in unethical behavior on public property, reduced defense and intelligence spending to the lowest levels since 1940, made questionable deals with foreign countries, appeased North Korea, allowed OBL to escape capture several times. Clinton also worked to contain international terrorism, not eliminate it.

12 posted on 10/20/2004 10:46:31 AM PDT by Reagan Man (.....................................................The Choice is Clear....... Re-elect BUSH-CHENEY)
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To: Reagan Man

TWO PERCENT during Clinton's term ???
4% is considered "full employment"

13 posted on 10/20/2004 10:53:14 AM PDT by kaktuskid
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To: EdReform


14 posted on 10/20/2004 10:55:10 AM PDT by EdReform (Have you seen FAHRENHYPE 9/11? -
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To: AnAmericanMother

Economic Comparison Between 1996 And 2004

John Kerry is traveling the nation on his misery tour, inundating voters with his pessimism about America's economy. What voters may not realize, however, is that the growing economy that Kerry continues to talk down is remarkably similar to the economy Bill Clinton touted during his 1996 reelection campaign and that Kerry speaks of in glowing terms. Unemployment was 5.6 percent in May 1996, the exact same level as it is now. The average monthly payroll growth from January to May 1996 was 233,000 jobs, and from January to May 2004 the economy created an average of 238,000 jobs each month. Many key economic indicators are stronger today than in 1996, including GDP growth and homeownership.

President Bush's leadership has helped America overcome great challenges, including 9/11, war and recession. As a result of the President's pro-growth policies, America's economy today is strong and getting stronger-even stronger than Bill Clinton's 1996 economy.

Economic Indicator



Job Growth



Average monthly payroll growth (Jan-May)



Number of manufacturing jobs created (Jan-May)



Average number of individuals working part time due to economic reasons (First term)

5 million

4.3 million

Number of individuals working part time because they could only find part time work




1.725 million



1.467 million

Jan-May average

1.6 million

1.4 million

First term average

2 million

1.2 million

Percent of new jobs paying

Above the median average (Jan-June)



Below the median average (Jan-June)












Jan-May average



Unemployment rate for African Americans



Unemployment rate for Hispanics



Broadest measure of unemployment (U6, seasonally adjusted)






Jan-May average



Of those unemployed, percent unemployed less than 5 weeks

First term average





Jan-May average



Of those unemployed, percent unemployed 5-14 weeks

First term average



Jan-May average



Of those unemployed, percent unemployed 15-26 weeks

First term average





Jan-May average






Debt as a percentage of GDP



Average monthly inflation (First term)



Average GDP over most recent three quarters



Increase in real per capita after taxes

(Jan 1993 - April 1996)

(Jan 2001 -
April 2004)

Stock Ownership

Percent of all Americans

41% (1995)

49.5% (2002)


40.6 million

52.7 million


69.3 million

84.3 million

Consumer Sentiment (June)




Consumer Conditions






Rate of bankruptcy filings.


(March 1995-March 1996)

(March 2003-March 2004)

Consumer credit as a share of household debt

First term average



First quarter



Percent of high school graduates who enroll in college



Percent of population who achieved bachelors degree


17.7% (2002)




Homeownership rate (first quarter)



Housing Affordability Index (first quarter)



Quality of Life



Food Stamps program



Number of participating households (March)

10.7 million

10.3 million

Number of participating individuals (March)

25.9 million

23.8 million

Number of Americans without health insurance

Number of uninsured

41.7 million uninsured (1996)

43.6 million uninsured, (2002)

Percent of population



Average annual household expenditure for food away from home (constant 2002 dollars)

$2,240 per household or $877 per person (1998)

$2,276 per household or $910 per person (2002)

Number of cruise passengers (50% of whom earn between $20,000 and $59,000)

4.7 million

8.2 million

Percent of new one family homes with more than 2,000 square feet of floor-area. 


57% (2003)

Charitable giving

$ 150.7 billion

$241 billion (70% of households)


Job growth is as robust as it was in the mid-1990s. Average monthly payroll job growth for the last five months is stronger than during the same period in 1996. And contrary to Kerry's claim, the gross job growth is occurring in high-paying industries including manufacturing. On average, more Americans were in part-time jobs during President Clinton's first term than President Bush's first term. Kerry says that today's job growth is occurring only in part-time work and food service jobs, yet ignores Clinton's eight year record:


The unemployment rate is lower than the average of the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. The unemployment rates match President Clinton's during the exact same time periods.


Production has soared during President Bush's stewardship. Real GDP increased at an average 5.6% over the last three quarter, more than two percentage points faster than the comparable period of the Clinton Administration. Propelled by low inflation and middle class tax relief real after tax workers' pay has increased at more than twice the rate experienced at this point in the Clinton Administration, $1,900 under President Bush versus just $980 under President Clinton. Despite the stock-bubble bursting and mutual fund scandals, more American households own stock and mutual funds than in 1996. Where Kerry sees misery, consumers see progress and opportunity. Consumer sentiment is as high as it was in the mid-1990s and consumer expectations are strong as well.


Homeownership is at record levels and for the first time in our nation's history, more than half of all minorities own their own home. The National Realtors Association's Housing Affordability Index reveals that during the first quarter of 2004, the nation's typical household had 144.1% of the income needed to purchase a home at the median existing-home price, which was $170,800. In the first quarter, a median-income household ($54,517) could afford a home costing $246,100, which is well above the national median price of $170,800. In contrast, a median-income household could only afford a home with a median price of $145,000 in 1996.

Middle-income families are not only able to afford a home, but they're buying much larger homes. More than 57% of new home construction in 2003 were housing units larger than 2,000 square feet of floor area - up from only 48% in 1996. And today, despite Kerry's claims that middle-income families are more squeezed, families are spending more dining out, giving more to charity, and even going on more cruises - a vacation option once thought only available to the wealthy.

More To Be Done

President Bush has said that he will not rest until every American who wants a job can find one. He understands the difficulty of workers transitioning from old economy jobs to Innovation economy jobs which is why he has increased job training funding by 12% to $23 billion and raised support for Trade Adjustment Assistance by 150%. President Bush is determined, even with today's record homeownership levels, to close the gap between minority and non-minority homeownership. He has proposed the No Down Payment Mortgage and enacted the American Dream Downpayment Act to help thousands of families own their own home. The President's policies are working to strengthen our growing economy, train workers for high-paying jobs, and help Americans achieve their dreams.

Jobs and Unemployment: BLS
Economy: Richard Rahn, "Tallying Presidential Economic Success," Washington Times, 6/18/2004; Equity Ownership in America, SIA and Investment Company Institute, 2002; Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts, 5/21/2004; U.S. Census Bureau, "Statistical Abstract of the United States," 1996 and 2003; BLS
Homeownership: Census/HUD; National Realtors Association
Quality of Life: US. Census Bureau Current Population Survey; Food and Drug Administration; National Restaurant Association; Cruise Line International Association; "The 'personalities' of cruise ships," MSNBC, 12/12/2003; Giving USA 1996, 2003

Source: Here

15 posted on 10/20/2004 10:58:34 AM PDT by Justin
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To: AnAmericanMother

Point out to them that:

1. The economy and the market started to turn down, starting March 2000, while Clinton was in office and Bush inherited the shrinking economy from Clinton.
2. Remind them of 9-11 and its impact on our economy.
3. Remind them of how Bush's tax cuts got us out of the recession and economy is growing again, and current unemployment is the same as under Clinton in 1996.
4. What do they think is going to happen to the economy, if Kerry won't fight the War on Terror and we get attacked.

5. Have them read this article:

Stern warning on Kerry from prophet of profit (Predicts economic disaster if Kerry elected)

16 posted on 10/20/2004 10:58:36 AM PDT by QQQQQ (Defeat Kerry. Support the SwiftVets. Keep the ads on the air.
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To: AnAmericanMother

Anyone who thinks Clinton had anything to do with the great economy in the 90s just doesn't get it. The great economy was due to a couple of trends that came together like a perfect storm:

1) Y2k required every decent sized company to completely changed their entire technical infrastructures. Almost all software written and used by every company in the world had to be checked and fixed for the "millenium bug." Most invested heavily in new software and hardware and transitioned from 70s mainframes and 80s minis to client/server based ERP systems. Trillions were spent in a short time. That is why companies like SAP, peopleSoft, Oracle, SUN, etc., became such high flyers so quickly and also explains why shortly after Y2K, the economy began to crash and the NASDAQ was more than cut in half in just a few months.

2) The rise of the Internet caused trillions to be invested in new software and systems to take advantage of the new technology. All the telecom companies went nuts building capacity for all the new data. Equipment manufacturers like CISCO and Lucent couldn't keep up with the demand for all the new equipment to carry all that data. Full of Bull? Just ask DNC Chairman Terry McAullife how much he made off Global Crossing!

Hosting companies like Exodus sprung up from nowhere to become very large companies. Companies like eBay and Amazon sprung up to create whole new markets where non existed before.

3) The rise of the PC - Companies and homes alike spent trillions to buy PCs and software to take advantage of the new technology. Just look at when companies like Microsoft and Dell came into their own.

4) Republican control of the House (remember Newt) kept the brakes on spending and authored balanced budgets while the country reaped huge win-falls from the peace dividend resulting from the fall of the USSR (That you Ronald Reagan)

5) As the market began to rise trillions more flowed into the stock market from a whole new class of Americans known as the Investor class - this helped companies like Fidelity and Vanguard and alike to become enormous financial powerhouses.

I can go on and on and on.... never confuse the cow with the milkmaid.

17 posted on 10/20/2004 11:01:19 AM PDT by PajamaTruthMafia
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To: elbucko
Does her chart show how much of the "Clinton economic boom" was really dot-com bubble, CEOs cooking books and savings from gutting military and intelligence?
18 posted on 10/20/2004 11:02:49 AM PDT by snarkpup (Kerry is to national security what Clinton was to morality.)
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To: Justin

nice job - thanks for the info

19 posted on 10/20/2004 11:02:51 AM PDT by stainlessbanner (For Liberty!)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Unfortunately the fact of the matter is that to many people, statistics only matter if they support your opinion. Statistics that are false apply equally. I personally feel that the truth, for better or worse, is just that: the undisputable truth. Many people do not feel this way. Even confronted with facts and figures, they will cling to their opinions. Many times more tightly than before since it is now challenged.

I would recommend this: simply compile your own list and post it. I recommend the above posts as well as education reform statistics from the US department of education:

They have stats on the No Child Left Behind Act. Also you may try bringing up Kerry's senate record. Give a list of what he has voted for, against and what votes he hasn't even been there to cast. Incidentally, he's missed hundreds of votes just campaigning. Bush has not yet left a bill unsigned. You can find a broad list of votes at the senate website, but you can look around for a more condensed version. Bush's website has a few short lists. Try this as well:

It may not be what you're looking for, but it's a chart of overall unemployment rate for the US. Marked on it is the period of time after 9/11. During this time, consumer confidence dwindled, foreign investment plumetted and our stocks dropped, if you will remember. The unemployment rate is now a full percent better than after this recession. Please note that at no time, even in Clinton's administration, was it EVER 2%. 3.9% is the record low in the last 10 years which happened during the first year of Bush's presidency, if you will kindly note. I hope this helps.

20 posted on 10/20/2004 11:07:22 AM PDT by TrojanMan
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