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Adventist, Fired for Sabbath Observance, Seeks Reinstatement and Damages
ANN (Adventist News Network ^ | October 19, 2004 | ANN staff

Posted on 10/21/2004 12:48:09 PM PDT by Tamar1973

Austin, Texas, United States .... [ANN Staff]

An employee fired from Dynacon, Inc. of Bryan, Texas, for religious beliefs protected under federal law is seeking reinstatement to his job. Hector Rivera wants his welder's job restored, along with back pay and punitive damages, according to a lawsuit filed in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas. Representing Rivera is attorney Malcolm Greenstein of Austin.

Rivera joined Dynacon in 1988 as a welder and became a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in May 2002. He asked for, and received, accommodation for his belief that he should not work on Saturday, the biblical Sabbath. A new supervisor ended that practice in August 2002; when Rivera refused to work on a Saturday, he was terminated.

"This is only one of many examples of illegal discrimination against Sabbath-keepers," said Mitchell Tyner, an associate counsel for the Seventh-day Adventist Church world headquarters. "Every year more than 1,000 Adventists [in the United States] are either denied employment or lose their jobs over their religious beliefs, which are guaranteed protection under Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act."

According to Tyner, the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission reports an 80 percent increase in religious discrimination cases during the past five years. Seventh-day Adventists, observant Jews, and members of other faith communities are among those who regularly suffer discrimination for requesting accommodation.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: discrimination; minority; religiousliberty; seventhdayadventist; texas
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This is what happens when the majority presumes to impose their definition of religion upon others.
1 posted on 10/21/2004 12:48:10 PM PDT by Tamar1973
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To: Tamar1973

If the job is open seven days a week, don't complain if you have to work each of those days.


2 posted on 10/21/2004 12:52:16 PM PDT by orionblamblam
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To: orionblamblam

It's illegal to force people to work 7 days a week. (The fact that small business owners of various kinds do that voluntarily not withstanding).


3 posted on 10/21/2004 12:54:18 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("He who is compassionate to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the compassionate." Chazal)
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To: Tamar1973

Tough issue. I can see it both ways.

1) He took a job knowing what the requirements were. I worked with a Orthodox Jew who was fired for similar reasons (he wouldn't work during the Sabbath and after a year things blew up while he was on-call). No lawsuit for him.

2) Freedom of religion (not freedom FROM religion). He should be free to express his religious beliefs.

This is a toss-up for me. I'm going Kerry on this one (I'm for it, I'm against it, I'm for it). LOL


4 posted on 10/21/2004 12:54:41 PM PDT by LiberalSlayer99 (Follow-Up)
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To: Tamar1973

Bump to the top!!! This stuff up 80% in the last 5 years!!!


5 posted on 10/21/2004 12:55:56 PM PDT by SierraWasp (The demeaning of America's morale... Why can't people see it's "an inside job?")
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To: Tamar1973
Seems that the shoe is on the other foot now. Nothing against Adventists, I assure you, but quite a few years ago, they tried hard to get Christmas outlawed in Williamsburg, VA. It didn't make the majority very happy with them.

And I'm not meaning to really bash them. I'm just mentioning this to show that tolerance is not a one-way street.
6 posted on 10/21/2004 12:57:16 PM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: Tamar1973

Yeah, this is also why there's a constitutional amendment against establishing a state religion.


7 posted on 10/21/2004 12:57:54 PM PDT by sddINRep (Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy - Ex. 20:8)
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To: Tamar1973

I'm also an Adventist, and it's not an option for me to work on Saturdays. This isn't just an excuse to get out of work...

For the most part, Adventists like me generally will offer to work (if necessary) other undesirable shifts... extra hours during the week, Sunday, whatever.. I'm more than happy to attempt to make up the slack in whatever way possible. And I always mention my requirements when I interview for a job. Who knows if I've missed out on employment opportunities in the past as a result of this or not, but it seems better to be up front about it.


8 posted on 10/21/2004 1:01:07 PM PDT by rayvd
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To: Frumious Bandersnatch

I don't know the details of this story... outlaw Christmas? Adventists celebrate Christmas too... I have no idea why there would be any attempt on my church's part to outlaw it.

Sounds fishy.


9 posted on 10/21/2004 1:04:05 PM PDT by rayvd
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To: Tamar1973

It is illegal to discriminate against someone for their practice of religion. If the job is open seven days a week then the employer obviously must have staffers for the full week and accomadating this fellow is just a matter of scheduling.
I ran into this years ago with a Hindu employer who insisted I had to work Christmas.

It cost him $7200 and legal fees.


10 posted on 10/21/2004 1:04:37 PM PDT by PeterFinn ("Tolerance" means WE have to tolerate THEM, they can hate us all they want.)
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To: Tamar1973

This is a truly hard one. Most Christian religions have Sunday as a Sabbath. Saturday is the Old Testaments Sabbath. I guess if you're going to make yourself "different" by following Jewish law, you might want to try to get a Mon-Fri job. My d-i-l is a 7th Day and works in daycare so she has no conflict other than following laws on the Sabbath/Saturday ie: no TV, no buying & selling, no meat anytime etc. I, personally, have a problem with a "Christian" religion that follows Judaic law.


11 posted on 10/21/2004 1:04:58 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Save a Democrat! Vote Republican!)
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To: rayvd

"I'm also an Adventist, and it's not an option for me to work on Saturdays."

Sounds to me like the new supervisor had a thing about Adventists. Apparently it was OK before the new supervisor came on the job. There should always be a way to accomodate people's religious rules, I think.


12 posted on 10/21/2004 1:05:12 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: DJ MacWoW

"I, personally, have a problem with a "Christian" religion that follows Judaic law."

Interesting. I've read the Bible several times, and saw nowhere that the Sabbath was on Sunday. I don't believe Jesus had anything to say about Sunday as the Sabbath.

What "problem" do you have with Christian denominations which celebrate the Sabbath on Saturday, and why?


13 posted on 10/21/2004 1:07:01 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Frumious Bandersnatch
...but quite a few years ago, they tried hard to get Christmas outlawed in Williamsburg, VA.

Are you series? That just blows my mind. Christmas is a major cash cow in Williamsburg.

Did they really think they could succeed?

14 posted on 10/21/2004 1:07:22 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands (Please God...deliver us from "President Kerry!")
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To: Frumious Bandersnatch
I'm just mentioning this to show that tolerance is not a one-way street.

You can't have true religious liberty without a profound respect for minority rights.

Most Americans take their religious liberty for granted. But public opinion no longer supports the basic premise behind religious liberty: that in matters of conscience, the majority has no power. This is why most Adventists don't believe that the government has any business exalting the religious holidays of one religion above another in the public square.

Both Conservatives and liberals alike seem all-too-willing to subject religion to majority vote. I personally am committed to the truly historic Protestant Principle of religious freedom: that we are all responsible, individually to God, for our religious beliefs and worship, that government must stay out of it.

This is what made our country a beacon of religious tolerance and freedom all over the world. This love of religous liberty is what caused the founding of our great nation.

If we deviate from the pattern laid out by our Founders, we will end up going the way of France, that would be a disaster for religious freedom worldwide.

15 posted on 10/21/2004 1:08:51 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("He who is compassionate to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the compassionate." Chazal)
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To: DJ MacWoW
I, personally, have a problem with a "Christian" religion that follows Judaic law.

Well, I personally have a problem with "Christians" who follow the pagan Sun god's "holy day" rather than what is laid out in the bible. The Bible, from Genesis to Revelation NEVER declares Sunday the day of rests for his true people. But I digress...

This is a truly hard one.

It's not hard at all. The law of the land is that employers must respect the religious convictions of their employees, unless it would be a significant burden to do otherwise and a business as large as the one involved in this lawsuit can't possibly make that argument with a straight face.

16 posted on 10/21/2004 1:12:36 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("He who is compassionate to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the compassionate." Chazal)
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To: Tamar1973; SJackson; NYer

What if Mr. Rivera was Jewish? Orthodox Jews also observe Saturday as their Sabbath.

I don't know any 7th Day Adventists, but they should be able to practice their religion freely. Christians are forced to work on Sundays, but everyone quit complaining about it. Nothing used to even be open on Sunday at one time. Remember "blue laws"?


17 posted on 10/21/2004 1:15:56 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl ("In the Kingdom of the Deluded, the Most Outrageous Liar is King".)
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To: PeterFinn
I ran into this years ago with a Hindu employer who insisted I had to work Christmas.

I have a story for you. I am a claims investigator and I had a claim were a guy tried to change the date an estimate for auto repairs was written so it would read that it was written on 12-25 rather than 12-15.

I knew that the particular body shop in question was run by a Muslim, so I called the owner and asked him flat out, "Were you open on Christmas writing estimates?" He replied something to the effect of, "You've gotta be kidding? Christmas is a federal holiday. Everyone was off work that day."

The guy who fudged that estimate got in some trouble with the Dept. of Ins. for filing a fradulent claim.

18 posted on 10/21/2004 1:16:32 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("He who is compassionate to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the compassionate." Chazal)
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To: Tamar1973
Personally, I feel that of all rights afforded protection by the Constitution, the natural right of freedom of religion is by far and away the most important.

Without that right, there is no true freedom, since the freedom of conscience is denied. With that right, others (such as freedom of speech and the right to bear arms) can be easily inferred.
19 posted on 10/21/2004 1:17:24 PM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: TheSpottedOwl
Christians are forced to work on Sundays,

It's been my experience that most Christians don't care one bit of they have to work on Sunday as long as they can at least go to church in the morning.

20 posted on 10/21/2004 1:17:40 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("He who is compassionate to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the compassionate." Chazal)
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To: rayvd
And I always mention my requirements when I interview for a job.

I think one problem for the guy in this article is that he wasn't an Adventist when he first applied, he converted later. But that doesn't give his employeer the right to discriminate against him.

21 posted on 10/21/2004 1:22:52 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("He who is compassionate to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the compassionate." Chazal)
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To: Tamar1973

This is true for me regarding working Sundays. However, my father never worked on Sunday. That was a quiet day, and all that was done was cooking. No housework, no paperwork, no chores, except dish washing.


22 posted on 10/21/2004 1:24:32 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl ("In the Kingdom of the Deluded, the Most Outrageous Liar is King".)
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: Tamar1973

> It's illegal to force people to work 7 days a week.

Of course, that's called slavery. If someone doesn't want to work, then you don't need to pay them or keep them on the employment rolls.


24 posted on 10/21/2004 1:53:30 PM PDT by orionblamblam
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To: MineralMan

Why are you looking for a fight?
Who is justified by the law?
If salvation came through opbeying the law, then Christ would not have been necessary.


25 posted on 10/21/2004 2:12:48 PM PDT by Darksheare (Ganags of epopel shall stune your beeber with "UNNNGH!")
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To: TheSpottedOwl
>>>>What if Mr. Rivera was Jewish? Orthodox Jews also observe Saturday as their Sabbath.

From the same employer, probably the same thing. I’m not aware of any requirement for an employer to honor religious holidays, though many do. The obvious problem here was his conversion, had he been an Adventist, or Orthodox Jew at the time of taking the job, he wouldn’t have been hired.

In the late 19th century the Reform Movement solved the work problem by moving the Sabbath to Sunday (they changed it back later) to coincide with the Christian day of rest.

26 posted on 10/21/2004 2:13:13 PM PDT by SJackson (They're not Americans. They're just journalists, Col George Connell, USMC)
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To: MineralMan

And before you ask me what I knwo, my wife is a SDA member.


27 posted on 10/21/2004 2:13:15 PM PDT by Darksheare (Ganags of epopel shall stune your beeber with "UNNNGH!")
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To: Tamar1973
I think one problem for the guy in this article is that he wasn't an Adventist when he first applied, he converted later. But that doesn't give his employeer the right to discriminate against him.

Given the fact that he was initially accommodated by the employer, then fired by a new supervisor, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were personal issues involved here, rather than the inability of the company to manage an off Saturday for a longstanding employee.

28 posted on 10/21/2004 2:13:44 PM PDT by SJackson (They're not Americans. They're just journalists, Col George Connell, USMC)
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To: MineralMan

Freepmail ping. :-)


29 posted on 10/21/2004 2:15:14 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Save a Democrat! Vote Republican!)
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To: Darksheare
If salvation came through opbeying the law, then Christ would not have been necessary.

Mosiach's death didn't change the definition of sin, but it's penalty. Yeshua didn't die so you could desecrate the Sabbath created by G-d at Creation (not Sinai) and eat BBQ pork sandwiches.

Christians who disregards G-d's law because it isn't "necessary" or a "salvation" issue miss the point. It seems to me most Christians focus on justification (Yeshua died for me so I don't have to die) and totally forget and ignore the fact that the very Torah they disdain is the G-d given teacher of the path to sanctification (walking in righteousness and not rebelling against G-d anymore).

But we are digressing again, the point of this post is that regardless of your religious affiliation you have the right under the Consitution to have your religious liberty respected.

30 posted on 10/21/2004 2:27:16 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("He who is compassionate to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the compassionate." Chazal)
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To: Tamar1973

If you'd look up what PAUL says, you'd see that I pretty much PLAGIARISED what he said.


31 posted on 10/21/2004 2:28:37 PM PDT by Darksheare (Ganags of epopel shall stune your beeber with "UNNNGH!")
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To: Darksheare
If you'd look up what PAUL says, you'd see that I pretty much PLAGIARISED what he said.

No, you DISTORTED what he said.

32 posted on 10/21/2004 2:29:37 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("He who is compassionate to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the compassionate." Chazal)
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To: Tamar1973
Well, I personally have a problem with "Christians" who follow the pagan Sun god's "holy day" rather than what is laid out in the bible.The Bible, from Genesis to Revelation NEVER declares Sunday the day of rests for his true people

Ah Christians aren't "his true people". Galatians 3: 26-29 Btw, I'm saved by grace not the law. Christ gave me the gift of grace. Christians worship on Sunday in remembrance of Christ being Risen on the first day of the week.

It's not hard at all. The law of the land is that employers must respect the religious convictions of their employees, unless it would be a significant burden to do otherwise and a business as large as the one involved in this lawsuit can't possibly make that argument with a straight face.

In this day and age, there are plenty of people that will claim special religious priviledge. There also needs to be common sense. And it IS a difficult question because of the potential for abuse. Do I think this man should win his case? He has a precedent that was overlooked by a new boss. He was allowed to have Sat off before so they can't can him now.

33 posted on 10/21/2004 2:32:05 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (Save a Democrat! Vote Republican!)
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To: SJackson
The obvious problem here was his conversion, had he been an Adventist, or Orthodox Jew at the time of taking the job, he wouldn’t have been hired.

Exactly! He wouldn't have been hired. According to the article, his former supervisor didn't have a problem with Mr. Rivera's religious beliefs. It wasn't until a new supervisor took over, that the problem started.

We're getting buried with that kind of attitude. Conform or starve.

34 posted on 10/21/2004 2:32:28 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl ("In the Kingdom of the Deluded, the Most Outrageous Liar is King".)
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To: Tamar1973

REALLY?
Want to BET on it?


35 posted on 10/21/2004 2:32:44 PM PDT by Darksheare (Ganags of epopel shall stune your beeber with "UNNNGH!")
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To: Tamar1973

Read Galatians 3.


36 posted on 10/21/2004 2:34:30 PM PDT by Darksheare (Ganags of epopel shall stune your beeber with "UNNNGH!")
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To: Tamar1973

Wow! This is series... I'm stuned!

Really though, if the guy is able and willing to work the same number of hours per week as the others, working around his religious requirements, why should an employer be able to accomodate him? It shouldn't matter what day a person believes is the Sabbath. Having one day a week off to worship should be reasonable to nearly any employer.


37 posted on 10/21/2004 2:35:01 PM PDT by TChris (You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.)
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To: Tamar1973

While you're at it, read Galatians 2:11 through21


38 posted on 10/21/2004 2:35:25 PM PDT by Darksheare (Ganags of epopel shall stune your beeber with "UNNNGH!")
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To: Tamar1973

Galatians 2:21 "I do not set aside the grace of GOD, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothinig!"


39 posted on 10/21/2004 2:38:03 PM PDT by Darksheare (Ganags of epopel shall stune your beeber with "UNNNGH!")
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To: Frumious Bandersnatch
Nothing against Adventists, I assure you, but quite a few years ago, they tried hard to get Christmas outlawed in Williamsburg, VA.

Are you sure that was Adventists? That doesn't sound at all like the church I've been a member of for 48 years now. We celebrate Christmas, have Christmas trees and wreaths, and a good share of us have a good time and take our kids trick or treating on Halloween. We seem to be frequently mistaken for Mormons, Christian Scientists, and Jehovah's witnesses, all of which are quite far from our own beliefs, which are probably closest related to those of the Methodists. Our lawyers are very active in preserving religious liberty NOT in suppressing it. One of our SDA chaplains (much to the disgust of the Baptists in the town) went to bat for the Wiccans when they wanted a place to celebrate at Ft. Hood, again in the spirit of religious liberty.

40 posted on 10/21/2004 2:38:27 PM PDT by Spyder
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To: Darksheare
I guess just like Jesus I'm a sabbath breaker too. Amazing Grace how sweet the sound. Since the penalty for breaking the sabbath was death (Numbers 15).
41 posted on 10/21/2004 3:05:00 PM PDT by MP5SD
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To: Darksheare
I would direct you to read Acts 15. After reading that you will understand that James presumed that the new Christian followers Paul was bringing into the Church would follow the basics of Torah as he spelt out and would learn more and keep more as time went on. He never would have imagined what we see now, with Christians claiming the freedom to commit sins because Yeshua made them "free".

"If 'law' can only mean Torah --- then what does "lawless' mean? Anti-Torah? In the case of lawlessness, I happen to agree that Torah is indeed meant -- that the sign of the end times would be "Torah-lessness." Christians often brag that they are "free from law" not realizing that's just a seemingly nice way of saying "without law" or "having no law." See note on "Law of Christ"--Ellen Kavanaugh "Oddly, In the same breath Christians claim Yeshua *was* G-d, they manage to say the "Law of Christ" is not the same as "Law of G-d" (that is, Torah). Many Christians claim the "Law of Christ" is "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. Mark 12:30,31."-Ellen Kavanaugh

Yet they forget that these were written in Torah first.

Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might"

Leviticus 19:18 "Do not make attempts to get equal with one who has done you wrong, or keep hard feelings against the children of your people, but have love for your neighbour as for yourself: I am the Lord."

"Yeshua's Law *is* G-d's Law. Where the Law of Messiah differs isn't in regard to G-d's Law, but man's. Yeshua came to correctly interpret Torah. Man had added to G-d's Law in an attempt to fence and protect G-d's Law, and in the process, parts of G-d's Law had been misunderstood. Yeshua helped define what the Law was really teaching (Matthew 5's "Sermon on the Mount" is an excellent example of Yeshua clarifying Torah). When Yeshua summed up the Law into these two commands, he was conveying essential principles -- love G-d and love your neighbour. But how does G-d want us to love Him? How does He want us to love our neighbor? We're back to Torah -- we need Torah to define "how" to love G-d and our neighbour."--Ellen Kavanaugh

Romans 2:13 "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified)."

Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

Romans 7:12 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."

Romans 7:14 "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin."

Romans 7:22 "For I delight in the law of God after the inward man."

42 posted on 10/21/2004 3:06:39 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("He who is compassionate to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the compassionate." Chazal)
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To: MP5SD

Me too.
Of course, the missus church has tried to foment a divorce.
She's an Adventist.
I am not.
And considering the behavior her church has shown towards me and my marraige, I won't ever consider being an Adventist.
Long story, and not worth relating, but it is what happened.

Yes, not all SDA congregations are going to behave like that towards me and may be better witnesses than the congregation I mentioned.
But I have yet to run across one.


43 posted on 10/21/2004 3:13:53 PM PDT by Darksheare (Ganags of epopel shall stune your beeber with "UNNNGH!")
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To: Tamar1973

So you would IGNORE what is said in Galatians?


44 posted on 10/21/2004 3:14:19 PM PDT by Darksheare (Ganags of epopel shall stune your beeber with "UNNNGH!")
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To: Darksheare
Your anti-nomians are SO predictable I could set my watch. Everytime a Messianic comes along and says that Torah is still relevant today, they always try to give their anti-nomian spin on Galatians to try to refute you. Doesn't hold water. If you look at Gal. 3:15 and all of Paul's writings in context with each other rather than simply picking parts you want to read to justify lawlessness, you will find that Paul, like Yeshua upheld the law. Paul's point here is to explain to the Galatians that even with covenants between human beings once the covenant has been ratified no one can come with another covenant and change it or cancel it. He applies this same rule to the relationship between the Abrahamic covenant and the Siniatic covenant. But more importantly, it also applies to the relationship between the Covenant of Moses and Sinai and the New Covenant. Note: The New Covenant isn't really NEW. It's in Jeremiah, too.

The New Covenant does not cancel the Old covenant but rather enables its members to keep the Torah as it says in Jeremiah "and I will write my Torah on the tables of their hearts." (See in Jer. 31 where it talks about the New Covenant.) The early Church fathers (after the Apostles died) disregarded this passage in Galatians and Paul's other writings and assumed that the New Covenant by virtue of it being new set aside and rendered the Old Covenant void. And all of Christianity sadly followed suit. They didn't understand that Yeshua declared in the Gospels "I have not come to abolish the Torah, but rather to fulfill the Torah."

In their Anti-Semetic rush to avoid all things Jewish, they disconnected themsevles from the Schoolmaster which could teach them what sin was, what the penalty for sin was and how G-d would work to change the penalty of sin forever through the coming Messiah.

45 posted on 10/21/2004 3:22:29 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("He who is compassionate to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the compassionate." Chazal)
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To: Tamar1973

Your post would be excellent, if it were not for the book of Galatians.


46 posted on 10/21/2004 3:22:57 PM PDT by Skooz (Any nation that would elect John Kerry as it's president has forfeited it's right to exist.)
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To: Tamar1973

This isn't necessarily a case of religious discrimination; it's a case of inflexible job requirements (totally legal). If we require companies to accomodate people's religions, where do we stop? Should companies be required to allow Muslims to wear headscarves, no matter what the job? How about Sikhs and their turbans and knives? I know it is frequently reasonable for the companies to accomodate these people, and if I were a small business owner I probably would, but it shouldn't be required. I know I wouldn't take a job that required me to regularly work on Sundays, at some cost to myself, but if the company is being inflexible it also loses by losing a qualified potential employee. It should be up to the judgment of the employer and potential employee if they want to be flexible.


47 posted on 10/21/2004 3:23:11 PM PDT by Nathaniel Fischer
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To: Spyder
We celebrate Christmas, have Christmas trees and wreaths, and a good share of us have a good time and take our kids trick or treating on Halloween.

...to the chagrin of most real, traditional Adventists who would not consider participating in such pagan notions.

48 posted on 10/21/2004 3:23:53 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("He who is compassionate to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the compassionate." Chazal)
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To: Darksheare
So you would IGNORE what is said in Galatians?

No more than you ignore Torah and most of Paul's writings, particulary in Romans.

49 posted on 10/21/2004 3:26:15 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("He who is compassionate to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the compassionate." Chazal)
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To: Nathaniel Fischer
This isn't necessarily a case of religious discrimination

Considering the fact they accomodated him in the past, I would said that this case is CLEARLY a case of religious discrimination.

50 posted on 10/21/2004 3:27:10 PM PDT by Tamar1973 ("He who is compassionate to the cruel, ends up being cruel to the compassionate." Chazal)
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