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Cops’ pepper shot kills student
Boston Herald ^ | Friday, October 22, 2004 | By Tom Farmer and Dave Wedge

Posted on 10/22/2004 3:46:41 AM PDT by ninonitti

The sequence of events that led to the death of an Emerson College student began when a half-dozen officers on horseback were surrounded by rioting Red Sox fans on Lansdowne Street about 1:30 a.m. yesterday, witnesses said.

By the time armor-clad cops dispersed the crowd of some 3,000 in the shadow of Fenway Park's Green Monster, Victoria Snelgrove, 21, lay fatally injured. She had been struck in the eye by one of a number of pepper balls fired by police to quell unruly fans throwing bottles and bricks.

``The cops (on horseback) pushed in and the people closed in behind them,'' said Emerson student Brett Schweinberg, 18, who was struck by two pepper projectiles fired by police while trying to scale the Green Monster.

``They were surrounded by people and a bottle landed near a horse and it spooked it. It faltered and it got jittery and 30 to 40 seconds later, cops turned around and fired at a group of people about 20 feet to my left. People scattered except for one girl who was bleeding from the nose and mouth.''

A Herald reporter in the midst of the crowd saw revelry turn to mob mentality. Several people tried to scale the Green Monster, at least one of whom plummeted to the ground after being shot by a projectile.

Small fires burned, street signs were torn down and trash barrels were tossed about as police struggled to control the increasingly hostile crowd. Several cars became trapped by walls of people while drivers spun their tires and blared stereos - some with people riding on the roof. Several bottles were thrown, one of which reportedly struck a police officer, breaking his nose.

Theshot that killed Snelgrove followed a standoff between a cop on horseback and a young man wearing a gray knit hat. Standing by a bustling sausage cart, the man refused the officer's orders to move, prompting the officer to reach down and toss him to the ground. After getting up, the man hurled profanities at the cop and made several obscene gestures.

More bottles were thrown as at least one riot cop fired projectiles into the crowd, one of which apparently struck Snelgrove. She immediately fell to the ground while her friends tended to her, rubbing her head as blood streamed from her face. Horrified onlookers shouted ``get an ambulance'' as the girl drifted in and out of consciousness. One of the riot cops checked on the girl briefly. Approximately five minutes after she collapsed, mounted police cleared a path for an ambulance and the girl was taken away.

As cops cleared the crowd, one young man who had been standing near Snelgrove shouted at police, ``Are you happy? Murderers!''

One officer was stunned at the ferocity of the violence. ``I saw the horses surrounded,'' he said. ``It was like a vacuum. They got sucked in. I saw guys holding small trees they had pulled out of the ground like warriors. They were holding steel sign posts they had bent over and broken. We had to fight to get control.''


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: badcops; boston; bpd; celebration; donutwatch; emerson; riot; soxfans
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"The girl had been standing by the sausage cart with friends. "

I guess it's open season on young women....what kind of maroons are wielding these "non-lethal" weapons?

1 posted on 10/22/2004 3:46:41 AM PDT by ninonitti
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To: ninonitti

"Small fires burned, street signs were torn down and trash barrels were tossed about as police struggled to control the increasingly hostile crowd. Several cars became trapped by walls of people while drivers spun their tires and blared stereos - some with people riding on the roof. Several bottles were thrown, one of which reportedly struck a police officer, breaking his nose."


I guess the "maroons" should have let this bunch burned and destroy as they pleased.


2 posted on 10/22/2004 3:52:39 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: ninonitti

The paintball guns these weapons are based on aren't known to be highly accurate, IIRC. They fire a .75 in ball filled with liquid out of a typically smooth bore barrel. Not a paragon of accuracy. You might hit anyone with a weapon like that. They are meant for crowd control, not sniping.


3 posted on 10/22/2004 3:53:47 AM PDT by Hardastarboard
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To: ninonitti
I'm sure the cops would have done this if the crowd had behaved peacefully (/sarcasm).

"The girl had been standing by the sausage cart with friends." Standing around watching the riot, no doubt.

Lesson: when you see cops move in on a crowd...leave. Bad things generally happen when you are somewhere you don't belong, or when you're doing something you shouldn't be doing.

4 posted on 10/22/2004 3:58:36 AM PDT by canalabamian (Common sense, unfortunately, is not very common)
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To: ninonitti

There is no way "non-lethal" weapons should result in a death. But on the other hand, cops should not have to worry about their safety because a city's team has won a ball game. Is this South American soccer? Should the cops just retreat to their station houses and let the celebrators do as they will?

When sports produces riots, win or lose, we, as a nation, need to do some very serious mental self-examination.


5 posted on 10/22/2004 3:59:47 AM PDT by David Isaac
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To: ninonitti

I hate to say it but WINNING or losine a game is not an excuse to carry on like this. None of this should have happened.


6 posted on 10/22/2004 4:01:58 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: ninonitti

I hate to say it but WINNING or LOSING a game is not an excuse to carry on like this. None of this should have happened.


7 posted on 10/22/2004 4:03:00 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: ninonitti
one young man who had been standing near Snelgrove shouted at police, ``Are you happy? Murderers!''

Must be a poster on DU.

8 posted on 10/22/2004 4:08:46 AM PDT by KidGlock (I already voted for Bush/Cheney 2004. Did you?)
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To: Just mythoughts

"I guess the "maroons" should have let this bunch burned and destroy as they pleased."

That isn't the issue. The issue is that the police overreacted and an innocent girl was killed because of it. I don't think anyone thinks the police should not do their job, or protect themselves, but to shoot point blank randomly into a crowd doesn't seem very effective unless your aim is to wound or kill randomly. That isn't good police work. The police knew the crowd that would appear if the Sox one. I support the police, but not in this case. They clearly did not prepare for the celebrants or how they would control the crowd.


9 posted on 10/22/2004 4:10:54 AM PDT by The Hound Passer (Sitting home in protest this Nov is a vote for Kerry and Co.)
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To: ninonitti
I guess it's open season on young women....

Yeah, you are right.

The cops should have sent out "Crowd Control Couselors" to help the kids deal with their "Post Athletic Disappointment Syndrome."

10 posted on 10/22/2004 4:11:28 AM PDT by KidGlock (I already voted for Bush/Cheney 2004. Did you?)
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To: nmh

Thank you.

That's the most "Intelligent" comment on this thread!

(parsing your tag-line! )

:-)


11 posted on 10/22/2004 4:12:33 AM PDT by tiamat ("Just a Bronze-Age Gal, Trapped in a Techno-World!")
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To: ninonitti

The girl shouldn't have been in the middle of a riot. No one is to blame but her. I've always felt that when cops close in on a crowd, and start trying to disperse it, it's wise to follow their instructions. She and her friends did not, and unfortunately she got hit.

What were the cops supposed to do, allow the looting and rioting to continue? I doubt that this girl was minding her own business at the sausage cart while everything went to hell around her. Maybe she was a bit drunk, having "fun" with her irresponsible friends, and a cop fires into the crowd. She was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

College kids do STUPID things. I was one of them. Had I been killed in college due to my own stupidity, surely my parents would have done what this girl's father is doing - claim their daughter was a perfect child, show an airbrushed photo of an attractive young woman, and blame the cops. No parent wants to believe that their now-dead child is capable of getting drunk and acting like a jerk.


12 posted on 10/22/2004 4:15:07 AM PDT by Rubber_Duckie_27
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To: All
Wait it gets better...

I just heard on the radio that the mayor of Boston is considering banning the sale of alchohol at games and forbidding local bars from carrying future games on TV. If that isn't a typical snivelling lefty response. Let's take something away from everybody because some delinquents get out of control and one of them, DUE TO THEIR OWN STUPIDITY, gets killed.

Y'know the old rule: sometimes bad things happen to good people? Well, sometimes bad things happen to morons too.

13 posted on 10/22/2004 4:21:42 AM PDT by Axeslinger (Where has my country gone?)
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To: Hardastarboard
The paintball guns these weapons are based on aren't known to be highly accurate, IIRC. They fire a .75 in ball filled with liquid out of a typically smooth bore barrel. Not a paragon of accuracy. You might hit anyone with a weapon like that. They are meant for crowd control, not sniping.

Jeff Cooper wrote an excellent piece on 22 rimfire for riot control.

With modern medical attention, its not particularly lethal, but it does allow the authorities to address individuals.

14 posted on 10/22/2004 4:30:32 AM PDT by AdamSelene235
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To: The Hound Passer
How do you know that police "shoot point blank randomly into a crowd"? Isn't it possible that when a policeman made a shot his horse jerked or something else happened? This kind of accusations and talk comes usually from our democratic friends. We should adhere to an attitude of reason.
15 posted on 10/22/2004 4:31:11 AM PDT by maksim
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To: ninonitti

Hey stupid... know anything about what goes on in Boston after a sporting event?!


16 posted on 10/22/2004 4:33:18 AM PDT by johnny7 (“Lick my ball-sweat Lady Astor!!” -Winston Churchill)
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To: The Hound Passer

That's one reason I could never be a cop. I see pictures of this kind of crap on TV and think that if you'd shoot some of them, preferably in the legs, (with real bullets, not pansy paint balls), these incidents would occur less frequently. The problem in this country is that there are no consequences for actions anymore. "ooohhh, can't punish the criminal, his daddy left him when he was little"..


17 posted on 10/22/2004 4:39:48 AM PDT by jrg
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To: The Hound Passer
This burning, rioting, and trashing cities when a sports team wins is not a new thing. Anybody who showed up to celebrate could not have gone ignorant to this common occurrence. The Cops are known to 'overreact', when crimes and attacks are being committed.
18 posted on 10/22/2004 4:40:14 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts
I guess the "maroons" should have let this bunch burned and destroy as they pleased

I watched the "riot" after the game....local teevee had a number of aerial livefeeds. The location where this girl was killed by the BPD was not anywhere near where property was either burned or destroyed.....that was happening in Kenmore square.

Police there dispersed the crowd with batons and tradition "non-lethal" weapons.

My point is we have a small police force top heavy with brass that spends lavishly on overtime and high tech toys rather than hiring more cops

19 posted on 10/22/2004 4:41:40 AM PDT by ninonitti
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To: maksim

"How do you know that police "shoot point blank randomly into a crowd"? Isn't it possible that when a policeman made a shot his horse jerked or something else happened?"

According to the eyewitnesses, both on the ground and on rooftops above, the bottle landed near the police and he then without hesitation shot into the crowd in the area the bottle came from. There is never any mention of this being an accident. In fact, the Boston Police, have already said they were at fault, and that it was not accident: the police intended, and did, shoot into the crowd.


20 posted on 10/22/2004 4:45:19 AM PDT by The Hound Passer (Sitting home in protest this Nov is a vote for Kerry and Co.)
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To: ninonitti

I'll never, in a thousand years, understand this phenomenon.

"Hey!!! Our team won!!!! Let's riot and trash the place, then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Good God; we've become a nation of idiots and savages.


21 posted on 10/22/2004 4:45:38 AM PDT by RightOnline
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To: Rubber_Duckie_27

Life is full of choices and when you choose to remain as part of a rioting crowd which is destroying public/private property and resisting the police.....bad things may happen. A shame a young woman died, a shame that the police will now have to deal with the aftermath of her bad choice that didn't need to happen.


22 posted on 10/22/2004 4:47:24 AM PDT by daybreakcoming ("The American press is all about lies! All they tell is lies, lies and more lies!",,,,,,Baghdad Bob)
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To: KidGlock
The cops should have sent out "Crowd Control Couselors" to help the kids deal with their "Post Athletic Disappointment Syndrome."

First of all they were celebrating so it wouldn't it be "exhileration syndrome"?.

Second I'm sure the cop who killed her will be getting "stress" time off and grief counseling.

Third the lawyers will sue the crap out of the city and the taxpayers will get the dirty end of the plunger as usual.

23 posted on 10/22/2004 4:47:49 AM PDT by ninonitti
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To: ninonitti
The sequence of events that led to the death of an Emerson College student began... about 1:30 a.m.

As we always told our kids growing up when they wanted to stay out very late, "nothing 'good' happens after midnight!".

24 posted on 10/22/2004 4:48:26 AM PDT by Gritty ("Republicans will shoot burn and bury the terrorists. Kerry will give them a speech."-Ann Coulter)
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To: ninonitti

When you insert yourself into Criminal Activity you are asking for trouble. By stupidly joining a mob of drunks obviously bent on criminal activity against the city and personal property owners, you recklessly place your life in danger. In my opinion, she didn't get what she deserved, but she foolishly and eternally sealed her fate by acting in an unwise manner in the presence of hooligans.


25 posted on 10/22/2004 4:48:47 AM PDT by Doc Savage
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To: Just mythoughts

"This burning, rioting, and trashing cities when a sports team wins is not a new thing."

Yes, so it shouldn't take the cops by surprise.

"Anybody who showed up to celebrate could not have gone ignorant to this common occurrence."

So celebrants shouldn't go out and celebrate because of a couple drunk jerks that might take things too far? They should assume that if they go out they might not come back? That is not America, it's the old Soviet Union, its Saudi Arabia, its Iran. Not America.

"The Cops are known to 'overreact', when crimes and attacks are being committed."

Don't pigeon hole cops like that. It's not fair to them. Good cops act "appropriately" to the situation. They do not overreact like a nervous nelly.


26 posted on 10/22/2004 4:50:44 AM PDT by The Hound Passer (Sitting home in protest this Nov is a vote for Kerry and Co.)
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To: ninonitti
"My point is we have a small police force top heavy with brass that spends lavishly on overtime and high tech toys rather than hiring more cops."

"She had been struck in the eye by one of a number of pepper balls fired by police to quell unruly fans throwing bottles and bricks."

Then blame those who do the hiring and buying of high tech toys rather than the small number of cops sent in to control a bunch of rebel rousers. Based upon this story the bottles were being thrown at cops in the area where this girl was hit.
27 posted on 10/22/2004 4:50:53 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: The Hound Passer

Rioting is always fun until someone gets hurt.


28 posted on 10/22/2004 4:51:47 AM PDT by csvset
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To: johnny7
Hey stupid... know anything about what goes on in Boston after a sporting event?!

Well first of all I know enough about FR to address fellow freeprs with respect.

FYI I live close enough to Fenway to hear Buffet or Springsteen when they play or to watch the fireworks from my porch on the 4th.

29 posted on 10/22/2004 4:54:44 AM PDT by ninonitti
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To: ninonitti

Every time, without fail, the people that get injured by the cops at these riots "just happened to be in the area" and weren't actually involved in the violence. Yeah, for the ten thousanth time I'm still buying that.


30 posted on 10/22/2004 4:55:40 AM PDT by bad company (What exactly is the plan john?)
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To: nmh

Good point....it bears repeating ;~)


31 posted on 10/22/2004 4:56:07 AM PDT by ninonitti
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To: Hardastarboard; ninonitti

>>You might hit anyone with a weapon like that.

That's why I've been a proponent of applying Rule .308 to key rioters. The guys turning over a car, firing up a bonfire, throwing a molotov, that sort of thing.

Riots would reduce substantially in size and intensity.


32 posted on 10/22/2004 4:57:06 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (hoplophobia is a mental aberration rather than a mere attitude)
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To: ninonitti
http://www.pepperball.com/

PEPPERBALL PROJECTILE CHARACTERISTICS

Safe at contact range

Allow for accurate suspect targeting at distances up to 30 feet

Allow for area saturation at distances up to 150feet

Kinetic impact less than or equal to standard paintballs Three-year shelf life

Powder-filled projectiles have an operating temperature range of —30 degrees to +150 degrees

Liquid-filled projectiles will freeze at temperatures of 35 degrees or less

WHAT IS THE IMPACT FORCE OF A PEPPERBALL PROJECTILE?

A PepperBall projectile impacts with 8 to 10 foot-pounds of force, which is comparable to the impact of a paintball round and significantly less than potentially lethal bean bag rounds.

WHAT WILL A PEPPERBALL PROJECTILE TO DO EXPOSED SKIN?

Shots to exposed skin will leave welts or bruises. On areas where the skin is close to the bone, it may break the skin or cause more severe bruising.

HOW LONG DO THE EFFECTS OF A PAVA (CAPSAICIN II) PEPPERBALL PROJECTILE LAST?

Response to inhaling the PAVA powder from a PepperBall projectile varies among individuals. In most cases, the symptoms last between five and 10 minutes. The PepperBall launchers deliver the projectiles with enough kinetic energy to produce temporary abrasions, bruises, and/or welts, which usually disappear in two to three weeks.

THE 5 BASICS

Treat all PepperBall launchers as though they are loaded.

Keep your finger outside (above or below) the trigger guard until you are on target and ready to fire.

Point the muzzle in a safe direction at all times. Use the "laser rule" to keep the PepperBall launcher safe during operations.

The laser rule: Always treat the muzzle of the PepperBall launcher as a laser gun with its beam on - whatever it touches, it cuts through!

Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

Never target the head, throat, face, eyes, or spine.

33 posted on 10/22/2004 4:57:47 AM PDT by angkor
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To: AdamSelene235

I missed that one from LTC Cooper. The lighter-duty version of what I suggested just above.


34 posted on 10/22/2004 4:59:23 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (hoplophobia is a mental aberration rather than a mere attitude)
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To: jrg

"I see pictures of this kind of crap on TV and think that if you'd shoot some of them, preferably in the legs, (with real bullets, not pansy paint balls), these incidents would occur less frequently."

Move to Saudi Arabia then. They do this quite effectively. And every Friday they have beheading on the square for all to watch. (To teach everyone a lesson...don't glance at other guy's wives.

"The problem in this country is that there are no consequences for actions anymore."

Yes, but that is because of poor parenting and a left-leaning judicial system. Criminals should pay for their crimes...but innocent bystanders? If your daughter's boyfriend's friend throws a bottle and the police shoot your daughter, are you going to just say, well, its ashame, but she got what she deserved.


35 posted on 10/22/2004 4:59:34 AM PDT by The Hound Passer (Sitting home in protest this Nov is a vote for Kerry and Co.)
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To: The Hound Passer

If the Sox regularly won the Pennant the way the Yankees do, the cops may have had a better plan in place. But these "fans" were nuts and what the cops had to do to control thems did not seem out of the question. It's too bad this girl died but as another poster stated, when cops are in the area, you should leave. There is no excuse for people to act this way whether their team wins or loses.


36 posted on 10/22/2004 5:00:22 AM PDT by rabidralph (Take responsibility for your life. Vote Republican)
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To: RightOnline
I'll never, in a thousand years, understand this phenomenon.
"Hey!!! Our team won!!!! Let's riot and trash the place, then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Good God; we've become a nation of idiots and savages.

My sentiments exactly. I'll never understand it. Hell, I'm a life-long MA resident and I really couldn't care less that the Red Socks won the pennant. Big friggin' deal. Certainly not worth rioting over, or being anywhere near a huge mob of stupid drunken fools.

It's a damn shame this girl was in the wrong place at the wrong time but come on, if you are stupid enough to put yourself into the middle of an idiotic drunken sports frenzy in an evil possessed city like Boston, Bad Things might happen.

37 posted on 10/22/2004 5:01:02 AM PDT by Another-MA-Conservative
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To: angkor
Never target the head, throat, face, eyes, or spine.

I guess someone out getting donuts when they covered this is in training........

38 posted on 10/22/2004 5:05:02 AM PDT by ninonitti
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To: csvset

"Rioting is always fun until someone gets hurt."

I think calling it a riot is a bit strong. It would be like calling Farenheit 9/11 "honest." A riot is when a large crowd is flipping over cars, maiming people, throwing bricks into windows, looting, and other acts of mayhem.

What went on near Fenway was 99% drunk college kids celebrating and acting stupid like college kids do, but causing no property damage or other harm, and 1% thuggery. The police should have gone after the thugs. Instead they blinked and went after they easy prey.


39 posted on 10/22/2004 5:05:53 AM PDT by The Hound Passer (Sitting home in protest this Nov is a vote for Kerry and Co.)
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To: ninonitti
Victoria Snelgrove, an Emerson College student, appears in this undated family photo. Snelgrove, 21, died Thursday, Oct. 20, 2004, of a head injury suffered in a clash between police officers and a crowd of Red Sox fans who poured into the streets outside Fenway Park to celebrate their team's victory over the New York Yankees. (AP Photo/Family Photo)
Thu Oct 21, 7:07 PM ET
AP

Victoria Snelgrove, an Emerson College student, appears in this undated family photo. Snelgrove, 21, died Thursday, Oct. 20, 2004, of a head injury suffered in a clash between police officers and a crowd of Red Sox fans who poured into the streets outside Fenway Park to celebrate their team's victory over the New York Yankees. (AP Photo/Family Photo)

40 posted on 10/22/2004 5:07:28 AM PDT by OXENinFLA (MXC.......DON'T GET ELIMINATED!!!!!!!)
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To: ninonitti

You must feel like an idiot by now.


41 posted on 10/22/2004 5:10:45 AM PDT by verity (The Liberal Media is America's Enemy)
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To: RightOnline
Hey!!! Our team won!!!! Let's riot and trash the place, then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Good God; we've become a nation of idiots and savages.

We still have a ways to go before we rival Byzantium's Blue and Green riots.

I'd give it about another generation of publik skewl.

42 posted on 10/22/2004 5:13:04 AM PDT by AdamSelene235
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To: rabidralph

"If the Sox regularly won the Pennant the way the Yankees do, the cops may have had a better plan in place."

The cops are supposed to be professional. They shouldn't need a the Sox to regularly win to have a plan. Certainly they had some old plans from the DNC though.

"But these "fans" were nuts and what the cops had to do to control thems did not seem out of the question."

No argument here. The police were in full right to control and disperse the crowd. My beef is in the way they did it.

"It's too bad this girl died but as another poster stated, when cops are in the area, you should leave. There is no excuse for people to act this way whether their team wins or loses."

I guess I take the death of an innocent a little more seriously than you. I don't think there is a valid excuse, and if I were mayor the police chief would be gone, and the cop involved demoted to traffic duty. No, people shouldn't act like morons when their team wins or loses, but neither should the police. The police, here, did not do a good job of protecting the people.


43 posted on 10/22/2004 5:15:40 AM PDT by The Hound Passer (Sitting home in protest this Nov is a vote for Kerry and Co.)
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To: FreedomPoster
I missed that one from LTC Cooper.

Its in his excellent book "To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth".

308 might be satisfying but it will overpenetrate.

22 lr will ruin the perp's day but probably wont kill him, especially if judiciously placed.

Just pick'em up at the hospital.

44 posted on 10/22/2004 5:16:51 AM PDT by AdamSelene235
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To: verity
You must feel like an idiot by now.

I quake in awe of intellectual giants like yourself.

45 posted on 10/22/2004 5:18:39 AM PDT by ninonitti
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To: AdamSelene235

Yes, that's probably the right answer; I'm overdoing it for effect. And the Israelis were doing exactly that, I think with scoped, accurized 10/22's, for Pali riots, for a time. A .22 to the leg takes you right out of a riot.


46 posted on 10/22/2004 5:19:45 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (hoplophobia is a mental aberration rather than a mere attitude)
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To: ninonitti

This sort of thing will get worse.

At least in this case, from what I've read,
I don't fault the police at all.

Have you ever been in such a chaotic riot situation?

Are you sure you could have fired such projectiles 100% flawlessly and benignly in such chaos?

The officers lives were in danger. And not just their lives, the lives of other demonstrators were at hazard because of the chaos and crush of angry people.

They HAD to establish order.


47 posted on 10/22/2004 5:21:35 AM PDT by Quix (PRAYERS 4 PRES, FAMILY, ADVISORS N OUR REPUBLIC IN OCT MAY BE VITALLY CRUCIAL)
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To: ninonitti

"Small fires burned, street signs were torn down and trash barrels were tossed about as police struggled to control the increasingly hostile crowd. Several cars became trapped by walls of people while drivers spun their tires and blared stereos - some with people riding on the roof. Several bottles were thrown, one of which reportedly struck a police officer, breaking his nose."

If that isn't rioting, then what is?


48 posted on 10/22/2004 5:24:20 AM PDT by Darksheare (Ganags of epopel shall stune your beeber with "UNNNGH!")
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To: ninonitti
Because of this, Baseball must be banned.

It only makes sense.

If there was no baseball game, there would have been no victory.

If there was no victory, there would have been no riot.

The curse of the Bambino still lives.

Babe Ruth Killed this girl.

Babe Ruth's estate , baseball, Fenway Park, the police, and all of the players on the Red Sox team must be sued.We can also blame George Bush.

This was not in any way a serious post. BUT it does point out how a liberal would view this.

49 posted on 10/22/2004 5:30:40 AM PDT by Radioactive
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