Skip to comments.Did John Kerry Break State and Federal Law?(vanity)
Posted on 10/22/2004 9:58:01 AM PDT by quack
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In the Kerry matter, there were what, 3, 4, 5 people walking out of the field with 1 goose. If indeed Kerry did shoot it and someone else carried it out of the field I see no legitimate reason that a citation of violation should be issued.
Look, you don't have to tag geese or ducks. the limit is 8 common or Canada's a day.
The only time you have to tag wild game is when you transport meat out of the state, then it has to be tagged.
Big game, has to be tagged as soon as you shoot it, or as soon as to drag it out of the bush to your transportation.
The issue was not how many or who was carrying it. It was the question over whether it was properly tagged, a position that you implied was not important. I don't know about your neck of the woods but not properly tagging game is usually an important issue as many try to get their game out by carrying the tag in their pocket thinking they can get the game home and then 'reuse' their tag later. Game Wardens are onto that game and so are judges.
Okay, I got it now.
Same principal as deer hunting.
Then the entire premise of Quack's post is false if that is the case.
Several posts above you said geese don't have to be tagged. Which is it?
There is no such thing as a goose tag, that's why.
If you field clean your geese, you must keep a wing on each bird for identicication purposes. that's the only rule.
Big game tagging is comepletely a different issue. With big game, you must tag the carcass as soon as possible, BEFORE you transport it, the exception being that you are using an atv to get it to transportation.
If you sell the hide, there is a hide tag, if you are shipping meat, there is a meat tag, if you are getting the head mounted, it must have a tag, or the taxidermist can't mount it.
I know, I hunt everything that can be hunted and eaten.
Since I never said that, I have no idea which it is.
Please read the Ohio state law,which I posted a link to.It specifically says that,"No person shall give,put,or leave ANY MIGRATORY GAME BIRDS at any place or IN THE CUSTODY OF ANOTHER PERSON unless the birds are tagged by the hunter with the following information:(1)the hunters signature;(2)the hunters address;(3)the total number of birds involved,by species,and (4)the dates such birds were killed."
You are correct. My apology. I confused you with another poster replying to me at the same time. Sorry.
That's how I can tell those aren't wild geese they are carrying. They are farm raised geese. Tame geese. Nice plump fat things. If I had my scanner working I'd show you the difference.
Billionaires can't be bothered with menial labor like carrying ANYTHING!!!
I didn't realize that Youngstown, Ohio, was a mecca for billionaires who 'hunt' on their days off from their busy and stressful lives!!
If it was not required to be tagged, the issue is closed but where I come from, if you don't properly tag when required (at that means immediately) you are in for a fine.
Would you want to be around when Kerry is handling a shotgun?
yes quak, that's correct. But that is if he leaves his game at say, a butcher shop, sends it to a taxidermist, or it leaves his custody for transportation. Kerry is standing right there, how has it left his costody?
We don't know what he did with it later, if he gave it away or not, (he probably did) Besides, any one of his hunting freinds can take possesion of it, as they are all probably permit carriers. Nobody will waste time challenging them as to whether they shot it or not.
In many states, turkey hunting has a different set of rules compared to migratory game birds. here, you have to tag a turkey the same as you would tag a deer.
Ahh,but Ohio state law requires the tagging of migratory game birds IF they are in someone else's posession other than the hunter who shot it.If you're hunting by yourself or retain posession of your own birds you don't have to tag.The tagging is to help reduce over harvesting.
Correct. I was going to comment on that when a poster stated big game required tagging but forgot to.
Signed, a Wild Turkey Hunter.
I think, by law, I'm even supposed to have all the ducks and geese, deer, moose and elk meat and fish in my freezer identified, I've never known this "law" to have ever been enforced. For my own reasons, i simply write "duck, goose deer, moose, elk etc. " on the packages.
No they can't.If they are carrying it,it is in their "custody".If they also shot a goose,then they are considered over the legal limit (1 per day)for having two geese.That's why there is a law on tagging.
As I said in my first post, I don't hung geese and claim ignorance on the requirements. I merely made that statement to keep the other poster focused on the discussion - that is, if tagging is required, it is very serious not to follow tagging instructions. He had earlier stated that if he were caught, he hoped a judge would 'forgive' him.
My uncle is a conservation officer in Mississippi.I've known it to be enforced.Guy was caught poaching.(probable cause)CO's went to his home and found he was over his legal possession limit.Yes,it was in the freezer.
loosing "possesion" usually means transporting, taxidermy, butcher shops. If you go out hunting with your buddies, and later one of your pals takes the goose, plucks it or whatever, and cooks it up for dinner later that night, that really isn't considered "loosing possesion".
The tagging of ALL wild game law is more for those pouchers who get caught transporting illegaly taken game.
Guys who poach become known to conservation officers. If I was hunting deer, and selling it, sooner or later I would come to be known, and then you could bet I'd be challenged to the letter of the law. But I don't sell a deer a week, so anything I have in my freezer wouldn't be picked over.
I give away meat all the time, I don't bother to tag it. But, I should. You are right in that it is technicaly the law that it be tagged if it leaves my possesion.
The law however, isn't really intended for that, it's intended to catch pouchers.
Yes it is.If your freezer has 2 geese in it and your plucking one in the yard,you are over your legal possesion limit(unless it's tagged,in Ohio).(1 per day,2 in possesion)Why do you think there is a possesion limit seperate from the per day limit?It doesn't mean you can have 2 birds in your hand (untagged)when the legal limit per day is 1.
As a chronic offender, I'll take the Fifth.
your should be you're
Lock him up! If this is what it takes, then fine!
Geese limits here are : Canada's Daily-5, possesion -15
White: (snow geese) daily-20, possesion -80
BTW,you'd be amazed at the authority and jurisdiction a federal conservation officer has.It's much like the FBI and far broader than local or state police.They even have the right to issue speeding tickets.Search and seizure of your home,vehicle,possessions,etc.,,are also under their authority.Not that it happens much.Usually probable cause,as in the case with the guy caught in the act of poaching,is warranted before they search your home.
I was with my uncle when they(a group of 3 officers) caught a deer poacher.His gun and vehicle were confiscated.He was sent to jail and fined.His vehicle was later sold(a brand new full size Ford) by the state,but he was still required to pay the payments.Game laws,for us common folk,are serious offenses.
Plus, Quack, the law states that all you must do is be able to PROVE the game was lawfully harvested, and in Kerry's case, it was, even if Bubba is plucking it in the yard, and has 2 of his own in the freezer. Kerry is still in possesion, since he's hanging around there somewhere, or did he leave? We don't know. I suppose kerry could be charged with allowing wild game to be wasted if he abandoned it. tray prove it though. I doubt any conservation or law enforcment is going to pursue the matter.
(In ohio it's only 2 possesion? that's odd)
Read some great commentary from Ohio gun owners about Kerry's photo op with the dead goose.
Go to: OHIOANS FOR CONCEALED CARRY
A 'friend' of mine got caught poaching deer last year. He lost his brand new Dodge 4x4, They then raided his house, took all his guns, busted him for growing pot. His wife divorced him in order for her to keep the house.
I think he gets out sometime this year, LoL! He will never be able to hunt, possess firearms again.
They are tough on that kind of thing everwhere.
Yes mabel,same principal,except that deer aren't federally protected like migratory waterfowl.
Also,he left the goose in someone else's possesion.Remember,they said they were cleaning it for him and were going to "send" him 2 geese.
Then, he had to propertly tag them, and follow all the rules.
John kerry isn't a hunter. it was just a photo op. He's just a killer, the kind that give sportsmen a bad name. he's an article from the web page above, it says it all:
Of all the flip-flops Kerry has done, this was certainly one big FLOP!
The real problem is that John Kerry is still an elitist with his hunting.
Most of us struggle somewhat to get quality private habitat to hunt. It takes sometimes years to have a relationship with a land owner for hunting access. Because of his status as a Senator and Presidential pretender he comes into a state where he knows very few people and probably no hunters or rural landowners prior to the campaign and get premium land to hunt.
John Kerry did no homework for his hunting trip - no landowner contacts - no scouting trips - no dog training. He probably did not even buy his own camo jacket. He probably could not recite the laws governing his hunt - which means he has not read his Ohio Hunting Guide or the federal migratory bird rules.
John Kerry is portraying the exact problems with hunting that Humane Society of the Unites States and PETA protest. He is a poster boy for their objections that hunters just walk out into the fields and shoot things.
What John Kerry did is not hunting - it was killing. John Kerry did not develop landowner relations. Where were the photos of Kerry thanking the family for permitting him the opportunity to hunt on their land? Where were the photos of John Kerry asking the farmer if he needs help with any chores or offering to share some of the rewards of the hunt? Then he says he is too lazy to carry his own game!
As a hunter, I have great respect and honor for the hunt, which is the game I take. That means carrying out my game, it means properly cleaning and preserving (freezing) the meat for later dining pleasure. Beyond hunting there is always reverence for the game - otherwise you don't hunt with me. There is always a special place for the dogs (in my case beagles) as my hunting partners.
John Kerry was out of sight of the photographers and kept that way until he returned. Did he shoot his geese? To me it is unethical for someone else to shoot part of your bag limit. Depending on circumstances, it could be illegal. Did John Kerry display the respect for the land by picking up his empty shotgun shells?
John Kerry is making every photo opportunity to convenience us that he is one of the regular guys and loves to hunt. John Kerry is missing his mark with true sportsmen and women of Ohio who understand that hunting is about a lot more than waltzing into a state and killing a couple of animals in sacrifice for your political ambitions.
For me hunting is about family and friends. I hunt with my children. I am a volunteer Ohio Hunter Education instructor. I have worked hard to teach proper respect and ethics for our young people as they go out and being hunting. My daughter is featured on the front cover of the Ohio Hunter Education Manual. I have a photo when I was about 7 years old with my cousin and his beagle. He taught me about beagles and passed down a family tradition. We gather around a table of venison, rabbit or pheasant and praise God for the bounties of this land and the opportunities we have to share our hunting experiences as family. That is what true sportsmen understand.
Far from showing he is a regular guy, Kerry is showing Ohioans he just does not understand these things. His trips afield for photo opportunities are as staged and fake as when he threw someone else's medals away! John Kerry is not connecting with true sportsmen.
Larry Moore is the Ohioans For Concealed Carry Senate District 10 Coordinator, and a frequently-published outdoors writer in Ohio.
Exactly Nathan.They sure got out of there fast also.If it were myself and family or friends,we'd have stayed just to watch the geese come in.The problem is,here we have a presidential candidate who,in my opinion considering the evidence,broke state and federal laws.If it had been you or I,we'd be under the jail.
Not to mention the fact there is no evidence of a duck stamp. The regulations also require the purchase of a Federal Migratory Bird Stamp that must be in the hunter's posession and signed on the face.
Just saw a clip on the news of this.
Did you see the dog when it came over by kerry?
It cowered down and was ready to roll over on its back.
Even the dog could tell kerry is a fake!
"Field Possession Limit:No person shall possess more than ONE daily bag limit(1 in Ohio)while in the field or while returning from the field to one's car,hunting camp,home,etc.,,"
So,your buddy can't be sitting with two geese when the CO shows up in the field.Which goes to show that Kerry broke the law by not having his goose tagged.It was no longer in his possession.
source:publication 295-1,page 8.