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Why Christians and the Church are unable to fight the culture war
Restore America - http://www.noDNC.com ^ | October 23, 2004

Posted on 10/22/2004 10:15:13 PM PDT by woodb01

Why Christians and the Church are unable to fight the culture war
although it's still not too late
October 23, 2004
http://www.nodnc.com

Often, in and out of church walls today, we hear about the apathy of the religious community. Hardly a month goes by that the church is not embroiled in some major controversy to the glee of the anti-christian left. The Church in America has lost its soul. The American church no longer fears God, and no longer loves God.

If this sounds like harsh criticism, I intend to fully support it in just a moment.

First, a little background. Since as far back as I can remember, I was raised in a Baptist Church, in my late teen years, after considerable rebellion, I had an "awakening" to what is meant by being "born again" after getting involved in the Pentecostal / Charismatic movement. Not the typical emotional "born again" experience that many people go through, but a true, life-changing, life-altering event that only an encounter with a living God could have initiated. This event led me to pour over the pages of the Bible for over 20 years, reading it cover to cover many times.

In a direct parallel to the church and our out of control culture today, I was on a roller coaster ride. On the wagon, off the wagon, running after God, running away from God, believing in a Heavenly Father and then having my doubts. Compromise, tolerance, foolishness, and sin were regular occurrences in my life, just like the American Church and American Culture today.

Then one day reading my Bible I stumbled on this:

Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil...

That unnerved me because I didn't HATE evil. I was "tolerant," I was accepting just like all good little secular humanist citizens should be. I knew there was something wrong because if I didn't fear God, then how could I profess to truly be a Christian? Then other verses struck me:

Psalms 97:10 You that love the LORD, hate evil...
Romans 12:9 ...Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

Confronted with this harsh reality that I did not HATE evil and therefore did not love or fear God, I was forced to change. My realization forced me to concede that I was headed straight for hell--, just like today's American Culture, and frighteningly enough, the American Church.

HATE, is a passionate thing. HATE is an active thing. You can't be apathetic if you have that passion. Activism and involvement against the causes of evil are the obvious results. Am I advocating violence? NO! Absolutely not! What I am advocating is serious, sincere, and committed activism to confronting and changing the sick and twisted evil in this culture today.

For example, as prayer was taken out of the schools, and abortion became the judge made "law of the land," every pastor and Christian in this country should have been running for Congress for the sole purpose of impeaching the Supreme Court Justices. It should have been the American Church's passion to stop the evils of the anti-christian assaults of American religious tradition and to stop the butcher of innocent human life. But there was nothing.

Today, with the controversy surrounding gay marriage, it hasn't been the Protestant faiths leading the fight, but the Catholic church, family groups, father's groups, and the Republican Party. The American Church's protestants are eerily silent.

Recently the democrats in Congress attempted to pass new "hate crimes" legislation identical to Canada's. In Canada, it is a hate crime to preach against homosexuality, even if you take it directly from the Bible. Yet still the church and christians do nothing.

The church, the family, values, morals, ethics, our children and our country are under attack. A relentless assault is being waged on patriotism and America from treasonous traitors within and still the American Church stands idly by as a spectator. It's time for American Christians to find their passion and their souls. DEMAND that your pastor abide by the Bible and teach what the Bible says about hating evil and if that pastor refuses, that pastor does NOT fear the Lord, and does NOT love God! That pastor must be removed from that position. It's time for the American Church to clean house and once cleaned to stand face to face with the vile anti-christian beast that has arisen in American government and lop the 7 headed hydra's heads off!

For an eye opening expose of the "democratic" party's agenda, and how it is focused on destroying family, faith, and America, please see this recent 2003 Congressional Testimony.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: apathy; christianity; christians; corruption; culture; culturewar; politics; society
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1 posted on 10/22/2004 10:15:13 PM PDT by woodb01
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To: woodb01
http://www.noDNC.com/
2 posted on 10/22/2004 10:18:48 PM PDT by woodb01 (Take out the 'dnC'BS "news" trash... SEE ---> http://www.noDNC.com)
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To: woodb01
The American Church's protestants are eerily silent.
...
Yet still the church and christians do nothing.

Largely because most people don't actually read their Bibles. Many teachings in churches have abadoned the truth of the Bible for their own interpretations of it. Sadly, most people are led by blind leaders.

3 posted on 10/22/2004 10:23:37 PM PDT by Fruitbat
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To: woodb01

Great article. I had a viscious reaction. A reaction to the evil that I allow myself to do and see. This article and versus should cause a viscious refutation of the evil in us. Before we can denounce the evil in the world, we need to look and strangle the evil within us with the power of the Almighty Jehovah. Whenever I see or hear reality shows, radio talk shows, or people around me act and talk in immoral ways, it reminds me of all the evil in the world, which makes me more resolute in my stand against evil.
I don't think I mind giving the boot to a liberal pastor that is willing to water down the Bible to be liked by everyone. Canada and Europe is enough proof on the failure of secular humanist.
God bless.


4 posted on 10/22/2004 10:27:27 PM PDT by hmong (John Kerry betrayed more than the MIA/POW)
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To: hmong; little jeremiah; thor76

This article explzins my thoughts a little more clearer.


5 posted on 10/22/2004 10:33:32 PM PDT by 26lemoncharlie (Defending America)
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To: woodb01
HATE, is a passionate thing. HATE is an active thing. You can't be apathetic if you have that passion. Activism and involvement against the causes of evil are the obvious results. Am I advocating violence? NO! Absolutely not! What I am advocating is serious, sincere, and committed activism to confronting and changing the sick and twisted evil in this culture today.

So like the zealots, you think Messiah came to overthrow the Romans? We are called to be a blessing to our society, but angry vitriole like this is more like a curse to our neighbors. We are called to live so purely and peacefully that no one can say anything bad about us.

Please note, I vote Republican and conservative, but I bristle at my fellow Christians who think that Jesus demands that we take control of the reigns of government and compel our neighbors into righteousness. While I believe that we need to be model citizens--and in a participatory democracy, that means speaking up and voting--we should be take care not to presume to speak for Christ in the polls, nor should we presume that outlawing sin brings anyone closer to salvation.

6 posted on 10/22/2004 10:34:19 PM PDT by kezekiel
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To: kezekiel

I'm sorry that you're so ignorant of American History and tradition.

Little known to most people is that our Founding Fathers, before the return of Israel to the world scene, thought this was "New Jerusalem"

One of the mottos of the Revolutionary War was "No King but King Jesus"... This was in reference to our Founding Fathers sincere desire to undo Israel's rebellion when they insisted on a King.

Our Tripartate form of Government (Executive, Legislative, and Judicial) is formed DIRECTLY upon a BIBLICAL model.

Your pronouncements to the contrary do not change the scriptures. Nor do they change our Biblical admonishment to be salt and light. If we abdicate this nation's leadership, a nation FOUNDED upon Christian principles, then we are no longer salt and light.

The "peace and love" perversity is just that, perversion of the scriptures. There is NO SCRIPTURE that suggests Christians should not be involved in government, in fact our own Founding fathers said SPECIFICALLY that this county was designed with the Bible, the Ten Commandments, and Christianity in mind and that our form of government was incompatible with any other philosophy.

Abdicating our responsibility to take our government back is nothing short of a death sentence upon the morals, values, and character of future generations.

NON-INTERVENTION DOES NOT WORK! We have seen 40 years of buying into this lie right from the pit of hell about "peace and love"... Just like the flower children of the 60's.


7 posted on 10/22/2004 10:46:47 PM PDT by woodb01 (Take out the 'dnC'BS "news" trash... SEE ---> http://www.noDNC.com)
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To: 26lemoncharlie

Thanks for the ping. This deserves a more thoughtful response than I can put together tonight. I will "organize" my thoughts and get back to you. I generally agree, have a slightly different (or additional) angle.

I have said often on the Homosexual Agenda Pings that we social conservatives - especially those of us who believe in God - have only ourselves to blame for the power that secularists, atheists, and the destroyers of morality have gained. The reason for their ascendency can be directly attributed to our laziness, weakness, spinelessness, and ultimately, faithlessness.


8 posted on 10/22/2004 10:47:22 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Help elect a REAL, COURAGEOUS conservative to Congress - www.mikegabbard.com)
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To: woodb01

BTTT


9 posted on 10/22/2004 10:48:27 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: woodb01

I agree with you. I was also raised in a Baptist Church, about 15 years ago, left it to find my own way. I ended up in the Episcopal Church because it was more "tolerant". I left that church 10 years ago because it was so tolerant it made me sick. Now I don't even go to church anymore because they are all big, lumbering corporate entities more concerned with raising money then saving souls. Where are today's church leaders? Why aren't they speaking out? You're so right, it's OK to hate evil, Jesus showed righteous anger when he overturned the merchant's tables in his father's house. Jesus said it was better to be hot or cold, than to be just lukewarm.


10 posted on 10/22/2004 10:53:01 PM PDT by alicewonders
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To: woodb01
If this sounds like harsh criticism, I intend to fully support it in just a moment

sounds like an understatement to me, why so defensive with this line?

11 posted on 10/22/2004 10:54:08 PM PDT by GeronL (FREE KERRY'S SCARY bumper sticker .......... http://www.kerrysscary.com/bumper_sticker.php)
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To: woodb01

The Democrat party is the party of satan and its members are satans demons. Every thing and every issue they stand for is evil. Basically what we have in the United States (and world wide) is a holy war with the forces of God pitted against the forces of satan. Unfortunately most Americans aren't aware of the scope of the battle or for that matter who the combatents are. Like you correctly point out, before we can succesfully join the battle, we as a people have to reject all forms of sin and evil and turn to God and live according to his laws. Once we cleanse ourselves, we will be fit to put on the armor of God and trample the forces of satan under our feet.


12 posted on 10/22/2004 10:54:32 PM PDT by A6M3
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To: alicewonders

Amen, and I would just as soon stand before a righteous and holy God and answer that while I may have been wrong about this or that, that I sincerely believed in the son of God, and did everything I could in my lifetime to be salt and light...


13 posted on 10/22/2004 10:55:32 PM PDT by woodb01 (Take out the 'dnC'BS "news" trash... SEE ---> http://www.noDNC.com)
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To: kezekiel

Do you not think that people who believe in God should speak out strongly against social degradation and depravity and other ills that are condemned not only in the Bible but in every religion in the world?

The rejection of universal moral absolutes is what is turning our country and indeed the world into a living hell.

Being pure and holy is all very well, but doesn't necessarily help others if they don't hear the truth loud and clear. Jesus Christ was a perfect example - He was pure and holy Himself, He spoke the truth loud and clear (and was highly controversial, I might add) and also performed actions which might have been considered rough, such as overturning the money changers tables. I have read he also had a whip, which He used.

And His motivation was nothing but love for God, and mercy towards the fallen souls.

I think we should all take His example to heart, and stop being quivering cowards.


14 posted on 10/22/2004 10:56:11 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Help elect a REAL, COURAGEOUS conservative to Congress - www.mikegabbard.com)
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To: woodb01

Jesus said, "those who hate me, love evil." I think that about covers it for Islam!!


15 posted on 10/22/2004 10:57:38 PM PDT by CyberAnt (Election 2004: This election is for the SOUL OF AMERICA)
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To: Fruitbat
Sadly, most people are led by blind leaders.

The Episcopal church is a good example of the dying left protestant establishment. It is imploding like a black hole. Check out www. virtuosity.org.

The libs would rather destroy Christianity than have it be not in their image.

16 posted on 10/22/2004 10:57:45 PM PDT by i.l.e.
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To: GeronL

If this sounds like harsh criticism, I intend to fully support it in just a moment
####
sounds like an understatement to me, why so defensive with this line?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Writing style, more of a transition than anything else. A "lead in."


17 posted on 10/22/2004 10:57:46 PM PDT by woodb01 (Take out the 'dnC'BS "news" trash... SEE ---> http://www.noDNC.com)
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To: woodb01

I have always wished I had the money to start a real activist conservative church.


18 posted on 10/22/2004 10:59:06 PM PDT by GeronL (FREE KERRY'S SCARY bumper sticker .......... http://www.kerrysscary.com/bumper_sticker.php)
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To: little jeremiah

It is important to note that Jesus Christ himself DIRECTLY challenged the leaders of Judaism of his day. I wonder how this fits in with the perverted and deranged "peace, love, and tolerance" teachings of the church today?

Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Speaking to the Pharisees, the RULERS over Israel (under Rome) he called them the spawn of satan...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm not sure these scriptures need any further comment... They speak pretty strongly to Christ's willingness to challenge Israel's government structure directly and aggressively.

Whether most people realize it or not, Roman conquest usually involved leaving most or all of the conquered's government in tact. They generaly had to pay tribute to Rome.


19 posted on 10/22/2004 11:08:53 PM PDT by woodb01 (Take out the 'dnC'BS "news" trash... SEE ---> http://www.noDNC.com)
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To: i.l.e.

The liberals truly do "swallow a camel, but choke on a gnat". They are against the war in Iraq because "what did the Iraqi people ever do to us?" They are against the death penalty for vicious violent criminals, but think nothing of imposing a dealth penalty on an innocent unborn baby. They are against Halloween parties in grade school because it might offend the Wiccan religion, but they want to take the word Christ out of Christmas. They are against legal ownership of guns by law-abiding citizens, but they don't notice that criminals don't pay attention to the law & get their guns anyway. I could go on & on.......

The only conclusion I can come to is that Satan has dressed himself up in the cloak of "tolerance" and the American people are swallowing that camel whole.


20 posted on 10/22/2004 11:08:53 PM PDT by alicewonders
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To: woodb01

You're right. And it's sad. It took a long time for one of the pastors at my church to finally stand up and talk straight out about the war in Iraq. Everybody is so afraid of offending others these days. Some people deserve to be offended. Some people I might even try to offend. We need to stop shrinking back and live up to what we claim to be our beliefs. Very good article.


21 posted on 10/22/2004 11:17:39 PM PDT by Truthbringer
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To: alicewonders
The only conclusion I can come to is that Satan has dressed himself up in the cloak of "tolerance" and the American people are swallowing that camel whole.

It's gone even further than tolerance. The nation, and even some Christians, are falling into the trap of believing there is no right and wrong.

22 posted on 10/22/2004 11:20:20 PM PDT by Truthbringer (I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.)
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To: kezekiel

Well said kezekial.

The Church has only one mission and one mandate.

However, any of God's people, may be individually called (by God) to confront evils of culture, or evil done by heads of state, friends, ...family (you get the idea). But doing so does have its risks (...John the Baptist !).

Every creature is subject to God's standards of righteousness (...Nebuchadnezzar). Any creature can be called to account by God at any time (...Belshazzar).

So, if anyone feels they are called to be in the business of calling down God's judgment on others, you better make sure God is the one who gave you that job, else you will be the one on the carpet before God (James 4:12).


23 posted on 10/22/2004 11:37:04 PM PDT by kritikos (Truly true truth [We know truth exists because "liars" exist...])
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To: little jeremiah

That's hard medicine to swallow.


24 posted on 10/22/2004 11:42:19 PM PDT by 26lemoncharlie (Defending America)
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To: 26lemoncharlie

Well, I don't mean that win or loss is really up to us. It's up to God. But we social conservatives - and especially religious believers - certainly haven't done our job of standing up and fighting for the truth (generally speaking).

Here's what a friend of mine said in a newsletter in 1995 (he's a fighter for preserving traditional values and especially marriage):


"Folks, I know that some of you are thinking along the same lines as this gentleman [a friend who was discouraged about winning against the "gay" agenda]. To tell you the truth, we've been fighting the homosexual agenda for almost four years [about 15 years, now] and though it's sometimes tempting to think in these "win/lose" terms, we simply don't do it. Why? It's a waste of time and energy. There's too much work to do. OUR business should be doing what needs to be done to stop the homosexual movement's influence in society. The win/lose stuff? We all know that's up to Him."


25 posted on 10/22/2004 11:46:27 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Help elect a REAL, COURAGEOUS conservative to Congress - www.mikegabbard.com)
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To: 26lemoncharlie

Here's what a friend of mine who has been active in the movement to protect marriage for many years had to say in a newsletter in 1995:

"Folks, I know that some of you are thinking along the same lines as this gentleman [a friend who was discouraged about winning against the "gay" agenda]. To tell you the truth, we've been fighting the homosexual agenda for almost four years [about 15 years, now] and though it's sometimes tempting to think in these "win/lose" terms, we simply don't do it. Why? It's a waste of time and energy. There's too much work to do. OUR business should be doing what needs to be done to stop the homosexual movement's influence in society. The win/lose stuff? We all know that's up to Him."

Everyone who knows right from wrong - especially in relation to serving God - has a duty to do whatever he or she can do. Some can do more, some less. Everyone can do something to fight against the destruction of morality and religion that is occuring at a very fast rate. Many social conservatives have not done enough; said enough, stood up enough, and so on. Too much camo. Trying to fit in, blend in, not rock the boat, not wanting to be seen as fanatics, self righteous and so on.

If more of us had spoken up and been more active, the leftist/secularist/homo-agenda/abortionist/ACLU etcs would not be where they are today. I have no doubt about that.


26 posted on 10/22/2004 11:52:46 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Help elect a REAL, COURAGEOUS conservative to Congress - www.mikegabbard.com)
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To: 26lemoncharlie

Hmmm - I wrote one reply and it disappeared - so I wrote another one. Then they both appeared. Oh well.


27 posted on 10/22/2004 11:53:37 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Help elect a REAL, COURAGEOUS conservative to Congress - www.mikegabbard.com)
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To: woodb01
Careful study and review shows that Gramscian Marxist Communism encompasses today’s “feminist” movement. [iv] Feminism’s goals are to use women to undermine and destroy the culture by abandoning marriage and by not carrying on the critical task of “transmitting the culture” to the next generation. Today’s feminists use women to advance the destruction of women, children, and families while convincing them they are somehow a “victim” of the patriarchal structure. And the patriarchal structure is nothing but Orwellian NewSpeak for the social structures and institutions that have kept Western civilization together long before the social decay we see today.

America’s socialists and communists make no pretenses about their goals to promote the destruction of a cohesive society by advancing a welfare state and the complete breakdown of the family. Socialists have openly adopted the “counter hegemony” taught by Gramsci which is designed to destroy Western culture. “[T]he stronger the ‘counter-hegemonic’ strength of unions and left parties, the stronger the welfare state… When we argue for ‘decommodifying’ (i.e., taking out of private market provision) such basic human needs as healthcare, childcare, education, and housing, we have in mind a decentralized and more fully accountable welfare state then [sic] exists in Western democracies.” [v] This statement comes from one of the MANY American college professors indoctrinating students today. As noted by William Gregg in the New American:

28 posted on 10/22/2004 11:54:17 PM PDT by John Lenin
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To: little jeremiah

Of course we should speak out - as long as we have the breath to do so! The root of all of the nation's problems lies in the acceptance of moral depravity. The process to facilitate this acceptance begins early - on the day students enter public school, if not before. One of the nation's founding fathers, John Adams, described the moral underpinnings of the nation thus:

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

(The term "gallantry" did not mean bravery in the 1790s, but sexual license. Bill Clinton would have been a very "gallant" in the 18th century.)

This is the root of the problem. The reason all of our institutions are in ruin is due to an amoral, ignorant electorate who care only for their personal gratification. That's how politicians like Bill Clinton and John Kerry get elected. If one removes or neutralizes the moral foundation from any aspect of society - business, politics, education, arts, sciences, and the rest - all that's left is depraved human nature, a raw struggle of the strong devouring the weak. This is where we are at today. While we sit in comfort and watch ESPN and MTV, our enemies are on their knees five times a day before what they think is the true God, false as it is. Because of its denial of God, and his transcendant moral law, our secular materialist culture has no moral basis to oppose Islam. Even the ostensibly Christian president of the USA is reduced to the absurd statement that "Islam....is a religion of peace" - a statement that utterly denies 1450 years of recoded history.

The farther we get from 9/11, the closer we get to 9/10. America, and the West in general, must repent of liberal materialism or it they surely perish. Sadly, I see few signs of repentence anywhere in the West.


29 posted on 10/23/2004 12:49:27 AM PDT by Bogolyubski
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To: Bogolyubski

I agree with you 100%. The more the general population consists of slaves - slaves of their mind's flickering wants and demanding senses - the easier it will be for them to be conquered by one enemy after another.

Slaves are easy to conquer.

There's so much to say about it, that has been said more eloquently by others. I have a file of such quotes, which I can't find because my computer is getting ready to be sent away due to its bad behavior.


30 posted on 10/23/2004 7:05:24 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Help elect a REAL, COURAGEOUS conservative to Congress - www.mikegabbard.com)
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To: Fruitbat; Pio; pascendi; Canticle_of_Deborah; 26lemoncharlie; Viva Christo Rey; ...

Putting aside the spiritual and intellectual laxity of the average pew sitter, the pulpits of this nation (Catholic and Protestant alike) have been the subject of a hostile corporate takover.

The architect of this takeover is none but Old Scrat himself.

Many "ministers of the Gospel" today do not believe in the divinity of Christ, His virgin birth, saving grace, etc., etc. All too many not only lack faith, but also lack any real knowledge of the Bible itself.

They sought out the seminary as it was the doorway to a cushy lifestyle. I happen to be Roman Catholic, but in my travels have known many good Protestant Christians - devout souls - who have pointed it out to me. I have seen it with my own eyes, and with my ears, in the screed which is blathered from all too many pulpits upon a sleepy people.

If you talk to some of these wolves in sheep's clothing, who pass themselves off as "Christian ministers" you will often find that they not merely espouse some brand of heresy, but that they espouse some brand of Socialist/Marxist mindset.....some are even involved in one form or another of the occult/wicca.

While there are some good Catholic priests and Protestant ministers out there........you will find they are few, and usually assigned to the ecclesiastical equivalent of the gulag......St. Frigida's in the middle of nowhere. You will not usually find them pastoring larger, wealthier churches of any stripe.

This explains the silence. We expect our religious leaders to do or say something. They will not, as they are not "singing out of the same hymnal" as most would think they are!


31 posted on 10/23/2004 12:43:21 PM PDT by thor76 (The power of Christ compels all....to serve His will and purpose. None may resist Him!)
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To: thor76
While there are some good Catholic priests and Protestant ministers out there........you will find they are few, and usually assigned to the ecclesiastical equivalent of the gulag......St. Frigida's in the middle of nowhere. You will not usually find them pastoring larger, wealthier churches of any stripe.

Ha! I call it priestly Siberia. You can tell what kind of bishop you have by the assignment of the good priests.

32 posted on 10/23/2004 12:49:15 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: kezekiel

We all all sinners, Man is a sinner, no man is or can be without sin. It is the "discipline" that we must display in controlling our sinful ways and desires. I refer you to two of the pages that I sometimes say with my Rosary:

http://www.kensmen.com/catholic/15prayersofstbridget.html

http://www.kensmen.com/catholic/5wounds.html

I think if you read through them you will find your answer.


33 posted on 10/23/2004 1:51:01 PM PDT by 26lemoncharlie (Defending America)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah

You can tell what kind of bishop you have by the assignment of the good priests.

Indeed! But that does not portend well for the Church in the US, as there are very few truly good nad brave prists of God out there. And they are usually assinged to the churchly equivalent of rowing on a Roman Galley ship.

You will only very rarley see good priests in the chancery offices, or given choice parish assignments.

Viz Cardinal Egan of NY. He took Msgr. Eugene Clark out of St. Agnes - the consummate traditionalist parish - replaced him with a a succession of two gay modernist priests, and put Clark as Rector of the Cathedral.

Was the Cathedral post a reward? Not in the least. Clark has to put up with the bizzarities of liturgical abuses, enforced by political correctness. Like African American "liturgies" with women dancing around with bowls of insense, of HIspanic "liturgies" with all manner of "music" accompanied with rocks and sticks. The funeral of minor entertainment personalitites, which demand the worst of liturgical abuse nightmares.

It is a penance for him. And it keeps him - now pushing 80 - tightly under control of Egan's watchful and profoundly unCatholic eye. He was forced to remove the world class director of music he had hired, and replace him with a ditsy Fillipino woman who things that the Teletubbiemusik is "good for liturgy".


34 posted on 10/23/2004 2:02:32 PM PDT by thor76 (The power of Christ compels all....to serve His will and purpose. None may resist Him!)
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To: John Lenin

Good post! The ghost of Antonio Gramsci looms large over the society of nations today - eapecially the formerly Christian west.


35 posted on 10/23/2004 2:51:26 PM PDT by thor76 (The power of Christ compels all....to serve His will and purpose. None may resist Him!)
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To: thor76
He was forced to remove the world class director of music he had hired

Was that Somary?

36 posted on 10/24/2004 7:32:16 PM PDT by ELS
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To: alicewonders
The Bible-believing churches are there. WE know. WE found one. It's a Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod. Our pastor preaches the gospel forcefully each Sunday and is in the process of smacking the parishoners up the side of the head over the need to vote for pro-life candidates.

Besides that, even though it's a small congregation, we're growing. Pastor's toughness is not driving people away.

37 posted on 10/24/2004 7:38:12 PM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

That's a great example of "tough love". Your pastor sounds like he's worth his weight in gold. Praise God!


38 posted on 10/24/2004 7:49:45 PM PDT by alicewonders
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To: little jeremiah; struwwelpeter
The rejection of universal moral absolutes is what is turning our country and indeed the world into a living hell.

Thank you for this.

39 posted on 10/24/2004 7:52:03 PM PDT by MarMema (Sharon is my hero)
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To: woodb01

Bump for later read.


40 posted on 10/24/2004 7:52:07 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: Fruitbat

As Jesus said, when the salt (Christians) has lost its savor, it is fit for nothing and will be thrown out and walked on. That is a perfect description of the vast majority of churches today.


41 posted on 10/24/2004 7:53:29 PM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: woodb01

Chacedon - http://www.chalcedon.edu

American Vision - http://www.americanvision.org

National Reform Assoc. - http://www.natreformassn.org


42 posted on 10/24/2004 7:56:02 PM PDT by PresbyRev
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To: MarMema

Trying to get this message out is the main reason I freep at all.

So many secularists, atheists, hedonists, liber(al)tarians, "fiscal conservatives" and the like don't get it. I can understand ThugDemocrats not getting it; they LIKE the idea of hell - like the description of Satanism in a thread yesterday about the UK Navy allowing "registered" Satan worshippers in the Navy.

Personally, my beliefs don't encompass a person who is an evil competitor of the Supreme God, but individuals become "satan" to the degree that we rebel against God out of envy. And such rebellion is expressed by rejection of God's laws, which moral absolutes are virtually the same in every religion in the history of the world - even non-theist philosophies such as Buddhism. For instance, the Golden Rule is extant all over the world - and if people don't live it, they're worse than animals.

Many people have this fantasy that a person can toss sexual morality out the window and still have morality in other areas of their lives. Not true. Sexual immorality leads to exploitation, selfishness, and hardness of heart, which leaks into every other aspect of life.

I have written more than once (on those 10 Commandment threads) about the universality of the 10 Commandments. We rejects such basic moral laws at our peril. I can only shake my head, fearing, yet knowing that God is in control of His creation. It is up to each small, faithful soul to do our parts, no matter how seemingly tiny or unimportant. I know that ultimately, universal justice (which is not really separate from mercy) will be done.

A lion cub feels safety in the big jaw and sharp teeth of his mother as she carries him to safety, while the monkey or antelope feels its death.


43 posted on 10/24/2004 9:21:30 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Help elect a REAL, COURAGEOUS conservative to Congress - www.mikegabbard.com)
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To: little jeremiah
I applaud your words and agree wholeheartedly. Though a sinner, I try to remain true to God's word.

You clearly are filled with God's grace. Bless you for posting and for sharing your wisdom with me.

I know that ultimately, universal justice (which is not really separate from mercy) will be done.
A wonderful reminder of what really matters.

44 posted on 10/24/2004 9:37:43 PM PDT by MarMema (Sharon is my hero)
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To: woodb01
"A relentless assault is being waged on patriotism and America from treasonous traitors within and still the American Church stands idly by as a spectator."

The American Church has had its own treasonous problems in its heierarchy for over forty years now.

They threw Christ out years ago and now all they have is a stranglehold on local church's properties and a social gospel.

The Lord's invective against the seven churches in the book of the Revelation has never been more relevant than it is today.

45 posted on 10/24/2004 9:42:38 PM PDT by nightdriver
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: MarMema

Thank you, Marmema - I often see your comments and am always glad to read them! I consider you a "soulsister" and appreciate greatly your kind words.

The only shelter in the world which will not fail is God's feet and the feet of His saints. Maybe not all will agree totally with me, but if those of us who believe with all our hearts in the existence of God and try to follow Him agree to tolerate our differences in theology and instead band together to fight the real enemies, we can turn the tide of Evil with a capital "E".

I often joke, but I am in dead earnest. The enemies of God are driven, they have a mission, and they want to eradicate every last vestige of the memory of God from public. They want to institute every manner of sinful acts as protected and honorable, while condemning every bit of righteousness as hateful.

And it just seems as though it's getting sharper and sharper. Everyone who prays should be going at it! And when we can't do it out loud, it can be in our hearts.


47 posted on 10/24/2004 9:47:33 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Help elect a REAL, COURAGEOUS conservative to Congress - www.mikegabbard.com)
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To: little jeremiah; struwwelpeter
I appreciate your kind words as well. How lovely to be your soulsister! I am honored.

I just came across an example of exactly what I was referring to, coincidentally.

link

I have been praying for this woman because I think in the morning we will hear that they killed her. If so it is happening tonight, perhaps now. I keep thinking of her.

So I was checking the news about her and found that article.

"The kidnapping of British aid worker Margaret Hassan has sparked debate on fundamentalist Islamic websites, with many contributors urging that her life be spared given her decades-long service to the Iraqi people."

The first line. This is the stuff that kills me. Killing is wrong, period, in this instance. But they're saying to spare her because she was of service to the Iraqui people.

It seems like I see this more and more now, and not just from islamic radicals. I don't know what you call it. Blurring the lines? Justifying?

It is why I hopped on your sentence. Lying, for instance, is wrong, period. That's it. No more to say.
But today we have people who do it without a second thought, it seems. I just don't get it.

There are too many terrorist supporters here on FR lately. They make excuses for killing children and support those who did it. It's like saying it's ok to behead this woman because UK won't pull their troops. No moral absolutes, right? Just blurred lines and no real right or wrong.

And you had it exactly correct. It is bringing hades to our world here. Orthodox Christians believe that there is a meeting between our world and the next. Or can be. That reality is not exactly as we see it.

In this context I truly believe that a portal from hades has been opened here on earth.

48 posted on 10/24/2004 10:14:34 PM PDT by MarMema (Sharon is my hero)
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To: MarMema

While reading your last comments, my hair stood on end.

If humans do not make sincere attempts to follow God's rules that He has very kindly revealed to us, then we do indeed create hell here on earth. A foretaste, a dress rehearsal. I have seen in big cities (I live from from any city now, but used to live in a city or two) people who look like emissaries from the lower dimensions. They look like that on purpose - ghastly white skin, blood red or black lips, eyes, leather collars with spikes, ornamented with spikes, chains, torture gear. You know the kind.

If people are fooled into thinking that their existence ends with the death of their bodies, and that no one sees what they do, and there is no reaction - no reward, no punishment - that all is meaningless and temporary, then they see no reason to follow moral or religious codes.

The more people really understand and are convinced of the truth that God sees and knows every action performed, every thought, every prayer uttered in the depth of the heart - and that every action will be with us later as punishable or due a reward, that the soul does indeed live after the death of the body, and where we will dwell is dependent on our relationship with God - the more such people will become serious about their short stay on earth.

I will check your link, thanks.

I remember some old song - Donovan? (this really dates me!) called something like "Life is a Circus" about how meaningless and frolicsome life is. I hated that song then, and now I know why. Not that there isn't joy and happiness in life (sometimes more, sometimes less), but to see the purpose of life as instant pleasure only is to live the life of an animal.

Real life and real happiness mean always keeping in mind the ultimate purpose of our human existence - to reunite with God in eternity. And using that understanding to guide our actions.


49 posted on 10/24/2004 11:14:48 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Help elect a REAL, COURAGEOUS conservative to Congress - www.mikegabbard.com)
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To: little jeremiah
ghastly white skin, blood red or black lips, eyes, leather collars with spikes, ornamented with spikes, chains, torture gear. You know the kind.

Even more evidence of the culture of death coming at us. It's virtually nonstop now. We have Soros and his pro-Euthanasia movement, and his followers who want to kill children for their organs. Take their organs before they are dead, from chronically ill children who are not brain-dead, that is. Also Soros was sponsoring a grisly project in New York last year which was painted to sound so nice. Put chronically ill children in hospices designed especially for them, with all nicely colored walls, family near them, etc. Everything but the life support they might need to get through the crisis they are in at the time. This way they die, you see.

We have this kind of thing on the one hand, and the sicko terrorists making beheading movies and now kidnapping children.

Then we have secularism, materialism, sex everywhere you look of course, and all the garden varieties of evil as well. Abortion, and dehydration deaths of the elderly becoming routine in our nursing homes here.

There is no doubt in my mind that this is a critical time, for some reason, for the evil one. Incredible activity levels. Lots of prayer is needed, and very badly. I hope we are up for it.

I am greatly encouraged that our church population has nearly doubled in the last year or so. May all church populations do the same or better.

50 posted on 10/24/2004 11:23:31 PM PDT by MarMema (Sharon is my hero)
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