Posted on 10/22/2004 10:15:13 PM PDT by woodb01
As Jesus said, when the salt (Christians) has lost its savor, it is fit for nothing and will be thrown out and walked on. That is a perfect description of the vast majority of churches today.
Chacedon - http://www.chalcedon.edu
American Vision - http://www.americanvision.org
National Reform Assoc. - http://www.natreformassn.org
Trying to get this message out is the main reason I freep at all.
So many secularists, atheists, hedonists, liber(al)tarians, "fiscal conservatives" and the like don't get it. I can understand ThugDemocrats not getting it; they LIKE the idea of hell - like the description of Satanism in a thread yesterday about the UK Navy allowing "registered" Satan worshippers in the Navy.
Personally, my beliefs don't encompass a person who is an evil competitor of the Supreme God, but individuals become "satan" to the degree that we rebel against God out of envy. And such rebellion is expressed by rejection of God's laws, which moral absolutes are virtually the same in every religion in the history of the world - even non-theist philosophies such as Buddhism. For instance, the Golden Rule is extant all over the world - and if people don't live it, they're worse than animals.
Many people have this fantasy that a person can toss sexual morality out the window and still have morality in other areas of their lives. Not true. Sexual immorality leads to exploitation, selfishness, and hardness of heart, which leaks into every other aspect of life.
I have written more than once (on those 10 Commandment threads) about the universality of the 10 Commandments. We rejects such basic moral laws at our peril. I can only shake my head, fearing, yet knowing that God is in control of His creation. It is up to each small, faithful soul to do our parts, no matter how seemingly tiny or unimportant. I know that ultimately, universal justice (which is not really separate from mercy) will be done.
A lion cub feels safety in the big jaw and sharp teeth of his mother as she carries him to safety, while the monkey or antelope feels its death.
You clearly are filled with God's grace. Bless you for posting and for sharing your wisdom with me.
I know that ultimately, universal justice (which is not really separate from mercy) will be done.
A wonderful reminder of what really matters.
The American Church has had its own treasonous problems in its heierarchy for over forty years now.
They threw Christ out years ago and now all they have is a stranglehold on local church's properties and a social gospel.
The Lord's invective against the seven churches in the book of the Revelation has never been more relevant than it is today.
Thank you, Marmema - I often see your comments and am always glad to read them! I consider you a "soulsister" and appreciate greatly your kind words.
The only shelter in the world which will not fail is God's feet and the feet of His saints. Maybe not all will agree totally with me, but if those of us who believe with all our hearts in the existence of God and try to follow Him agree to tolerate our differences in theology and instead band together to fight the real enemies, we can turn the tide of Evil with a capital "E".
I often joke, but I am in dead earnest. The enemies of God are driven, they have a mission, and they want to eradicate every last vestige of the memory of God from public. They want to institute every manner of sinful acts as protected and honorable, while condemning every bit of righteousness as hateful.
And it just seems as though it's getting sharper and sharper. Everyone who prays should be going at it! And when we can't do it out loud, it can be in our hearts.
I just came across an example of exactly what I was referring to, coincidentally.
I have been praying for this woman because I think in the morning we will hear that they killed her. If so it is happening tonight, perhaps now. I keep thinking of her.
So I was checking the news about her and found that article.
"The kidnapping of British aid worker Margaret Hassan has sparked debate on fundamentalist Islamic websites, with many contributors urging that her life be spared given her decades-long service to the Iraqi people."
The first line. This is the stuff that kills me. Killing is wrong, period, in this instance. But they're saying to spare her because she was of service to the Iraqui people.
It seems like I see this more and more now, and not just from islamic radicals. I don't know what you call it. Blurring the lines? Justifying?
It is why I hopped on your sentence. Lying, for instance, is wrong, period. That's it. No more to say.
But today we have people who do it without a second thought, it seems. I just don't get it.
There are too many terrorist supporters here on FR lately. They make excuses for killing children and support those who did it. It's like saying it's ok to behead this woman because UK won't pull their troops. No moral absolutes, right? Just blurred lines and no real right or wrong.
And you had it exactly correct. It is bringing hades to our world here. Orthodox Christians believe that there is a meeting between our world and the next. Or can be. That reality is not exactly as we see it.
In this context I truly believe that a portal from hades has been opened here on earth.
While reading your last comments, my hair stood on end.
If humans do not make sincere attempts to follow God's rules that He has very kindly revealed to us, then we do indeed create hell here on earth. A foretaste, a dress rehearsal. I have seen in big cities (I live from from any city now, but used to live in a city or two) people who look like emissaries from the lower dimensions. They look like that on purpose - ghastly white skin, blood red or black lips, eyes, leather collars with spikes, ornamented with spikes, chains, torture gear. You know the kind.
If people are fooled into thinking that their existence ends with the death of their bodies, and that no one sees what they do, and there is no reaction - no reward, no punishment - that all is meaningless and temporary, then they see no reason to follow moral or religious codes.
The more people really understand and are convinced of the truth that God sees and knows every action performed, every thought, every prayer uttered in the depth of the heart - and that every action will be with us later as punishable or due a reward, that the soul does indeed live after the death of the body, and where we will dwell is dependent on our relationship with God - the more such people will become serious about their short stay on earth.
I will check your link, thanks.
I remember some old song - Donovan? (this really dates me!) called something like "Life is a Circus" about how meaningless and frolicsome life is. I hated that song then, and now I know why. Not that there isn't joy and happiness in life (sometimes more, sometimes less), but to see the purpose of life as instant pleasure only is to live the life of an animal.
Real life and real happiness mean always keeping in mind the ultimate purpose of our human existence - to reunite with God in eternity. And using that understanding to guide our actions.
Even more evidence of the culture of death coming at us. It's virtually nonstop now. We have Soros and his pro-Euthanasia movement, and his followers who want to kill children for their organs. Take their organs before they are dead, from chronically ill children who are not brain-dead, that is. Also Soros was sponsoring a grisly project in New York last year which was painted to sound so nice. Put chronically ill children in hospices designed especially for them, with all nicely colored walls, family near them, etc. Everything but the life support they might need to get through the crisis they are in at the time. This way they die, you see.
We have this kind of thing on the one hand, and the sicko terrorists making beheading movies and now kidnapping children.
Then we have secularism, materialism, sex everywhere you look of course, and all the garden varieties of evil as well. Abortion, and dehydration deaths of the elderly becoming routine in our nursing homes here.
There is no doubt in my mind that this is a critical time, for some reason, for the evil one. Incredible activity levels. Lots of prayer is needed, and very badly. I hope we are up for it.
I am greatly encouraged that our church population has nearly doubled in the last year or so. May all church populations do the same or better.
More hair on end. Not kidding.
All the evil that you list is connected. People who see their lives as a precious gift (and therefore the lives of others as well) to be used for God will refrain from such evil; in fact, such evil will be abhorrent and loathesome.
I am glad to hear of the growth of your church. I hope that all who pray to God continue to do so with deep supplication. And that those who are not habituated to prayer start.
It is a conclusion that I have reached recently. Soros setting up hospices for children who are not dying, just chronically ill, and the terrorists at Beslan killing children......no difference. Same for the medical experts in Boston who want to remove organs from ill children who are not brain dead. No difference.
Though I believe those same medical experts were trained by Soros teams in medical school toward utilitarianism.
And who's the guy at Princeton who was advocating places where parents can "turn in" their infants if there is something wrong with them, to be put to sleep? He has some honorary chair of grat esteem.
"We are called to live so purely and peacefully that no one can say anything bad about us."
Jesus Himself, by the life He lived, proved that no matter how purely and peacefully you live your life - people will still say bad things about you (and some will even try to kill you)...
"I bristle at my fellow Christians who think that Jesus demands that we take control of the reigns of government and compel our neighbors into righteousness."
Interesting... so what's your stand on "righteous anger"?
Well, for my two cents on this topic:
The parable of the wheat and tares and the parable of the leaven pop to mind.
God warns us all along that there is going to be bad in the Church. He doesn't tell us to spend huge amounts of time infighting, although there are times where it is necessary (or else we wouldn't see groups that call themselves church but spit on the teachings like they don't really believe it), but perhaps more importantly, we are to be leaven, salt and light.
Leaven is that yeast that makes bread puffy. It lets air in, and so you could say, our Christian witness is the tools which let the light of God into the world. Part of the problem is that the light of our witness got compromised, perhaps, because of being cultural Christians a long time. Some of what should have been committed witness of the right way to be was just left to the culture to reenforce, and when the culture shifted, the barrenness of the witness was revealed. Now we have to consciously do it, which often means we pay a price for standing up for the truth. But it's worth it.
Salt is the preservative. We see that here and in Europe (even more than in America), the salt in large parts of society certainly has lost its savor, and we have big areas where corruption, immorality and things we know which destroy life and society are rampant. But all is not lost because we are here, holding up the right, preserving at least the remnant of morality. This is one of the things that originally made the church grow during the Roman empire...the high moral standards were attractive to people who lived in a world where the guidelines were much less strict. And holding up the truth, the Church thrived.
Light! Let your light shine! Don't let people guess if you are Christian or not! In a way, each one of us who are committed Christians ought to be like lanterns filled with God's light...are we covering our lanterns by our life choices? Are we willing to do the right thing? Be laughed at? Pay a price? If we are, our light will spread.
Mostly, I guess I feel that if you are waiting for your church leaders to be like Moses and take you to the promised land, maybe you need to rethink. Instead of complaining about how they are letting the church down, maybe we need to look at how WE (individuals, lay people, whatever) are building the church up. And let God use us the way he wants to.
One reason churches don't speak out is the tax exempt contribution issue. They have got to let go of that fear -- if they lose it for doing the right thing, so be it.
I think this rule was either enacted or strengthened during the Johnson administration -- but can't back that up with any facts right now. Maybe someone else on this thread knows.
You might be interested in some of the comments on this thread, it pertains to some things discussed here.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1255425/posts
These people love death because they hate the Author of all life. That's my conclusion.
Christ is in our midst!
That is my conclusion as well.
And then, sometimes, you'll find them assigned to building a new parish in one of the fast growing and prosperous parts of the diocese.
That it isn't always appropriate. Those who use Jesus turning driving out the crooks from the temple as their guiding example of righteous anger shouldn't confuse the temple with the Capitol building. Congress is not God's House.
Read back through Paul's exhortations to the New Testament churches... I fail to find any references regarding the state other than obedience to the law and praying for leaders. It is clear from what he writes that we are to be model citizens, which should presumably include, in a democracy, being very wise and patient with regard to our public pronouncements--especially when they can reflect on the church.
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