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LIBERTARIAN PARTY FOUNDER ENDORSES BUSH
AN OPEN LETTER TO ALL LIBERTARIANS | 10-24-2004 | Dr. John Hospers

Posted on 10/24/2004 10:37:30 AM PDT by Y2Krap

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To: Axenolith

The guy you replied to wrote down the wrong email addy. Look at post 28 and he has it written down right.


101 posted on 10/24/2004 1:13:46 PM PDT by bahblahbah
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To: bahblahbah
Where did you get this letter? I've already started posting it elsewhere and I don't want it to end up being phony. * * * * * * * * * PUBLISHED HERE FIRST TODAY via JOHN HOSPERS. Rest assured, it is authentic.

You can contact him: johnjhospers@aol.com

102 posted on 10/24/2004 1:21:27 PM PDT by Y2Krap (JOHN KERRY FOR PRESIDENT (Cue Music: "Uppa U.S."))
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To: bahblahbah

Got it.


103 posted on 10/24/2004 1:22:27 PM PDT by Axenolith (This space for rent.)
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To: Y2Krap
"New" voters for UA...

The Amish

The 4 million evangelicals that stayed home last time?

and now the Libertarians!

Is it possible America is waking up to just how crucial this election is? Pray hard. And Pray for "The Man'

He has the biggest bullseye of anyone in the world on him - he knows it - and yet, think of the bravery it takes to go out there day after day - state after state - rally after rally!

Right now he's all that stands between us/US and freedom...it's as simple as that

The dark side is desparate - they will stop at nothing to rule = they know this is their last shot...for decades...certainly for any of them.

104 posted on 10/24/2004 1:25:14 PM PDT by maine-iac7
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To: My2Cents
I feel vindicated.

Me too.

105 posted on 10/24/2004 1:25:45 PM PDT by eddie willers
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To: Y2Krap
"There are already numerous stories of brownshirt types committing violence against Republican campaign headquarters all over the country, and Democrat thugs harassing Republican voters at the polls. Yet not a word about it from the Kerry campaign. Expect this dangerous trend to increase dramatically with a Kerry win, ignored and tacitly accepted by the liberal-left mainstream media. This is ominous sign of worse things to come."

BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP

106 posted on 10/24/2004 1:27:04 PM PDT by Skooz (Any nation that would elect John Kerry as it's president has forfeited it's right to exist.)
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To: unspun
FReepers: get this out to your libertarian friends.*****

to ALL your friends - it's equally powerful to let others know that if the Libertarians have come this far - it REALLY is crucial WE ALL VOTE *****

His letter should be "required reading" before anyone can vote - LOL

107 posted on 10/24/2004 1:28:52 PM PDT by maine-iac7
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To: Uncle Vlad
we are in a Cold Civil War with the Democrat party**************

Wow! in a nutshell!

108 posted on 10/24/2004 1:31:17 PM PDT by maine-iac7
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To: maine-iac7
I think you're on to something. We're praying not only that the 4 million evangelicals will get out to vote this time, but that another million will feel "moved" by the Spirit to do their civic duty.

And add to these factors you've identified, a doubling of Bush's support among blacks (tripling among evangelical blacks), an improvement in Bush's support among women and hispanics, and I don't think this election is going to be as close as the polls indicate. There are going to be a lot of jaw-dropped pundits on election night.

109 posted on 10/24/2004 1:32:16 PM PDT by My2Cents (http://www.conservativesforbush.com)
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To: Uncle Vlad
I hope that with the new election cycle which starts immediately on Nov. 3rd, the GOP becomes more responsibly libertarian.
110 posted on 10/24/2004 1:34:37 PM PDT by My2Cents (http://www.conservativesforbush.com)
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To: tenuredprof
Plenty of us libertarians are supporting Bush. As far as I know, most or all of the prominent Randians are on board as well. In other words, all of us who have a grain of common sense -- and John Hospers has enough common sense to sustain an entire university philosophy department singlehandedly -- are supporting W this year. There will be time enough for libertarians to argue with conservatives about drug legalization, etc. AFTER we have first rescued civilization from the evils threatening it from without (Islamofascism) and within (the modern Democratic Party and its media wing). Even we fanatics have priorities.*********

great post

111 posted on 10/24/2004 1:46:43 PM PDT by maine-iac7
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To: Virginia-American
I too, have been an LP activist in the past, and I'll be voting for Dubya.

I'd be interested to learn how the number of registered Libertarians has changed since 9/11/01.

112 posted on 10/24/2004 1:47:18 PM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson (Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh/Loves John Kerry so vote him in!)
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To: Cultural Jihad
LIBERTARIAN PARTY FOUNDER ENDORSES BUSH

Jefferson passed on years ago too, shortly after he wrote the essential principle of libertarianism:

"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another."
113 posted on 10/24/2004 1:49:33 PM PDT by tpaine (No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another. - T. Jefferson)
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To: My2Cents
and I don't think this election is going to be as close as the polls indicate. There are going to be a lot of jaw-dropped pundits on election night*********

So Let it be said, So let it be done...,/\

114 posted on 10/24/2004 1:50:43 PM PDT by maine-iac7
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To: Copernicus
"I endorse and will cast my vote for Mr. Badnarik"

Mr. Badnarik position (and therefore I assume the LP's position) on corporations, is the fundamental premise of a corporation, that it is viewed by the law as an individual, and stockholders are exempted from liability of the corporation's actions, should be ended.

This is immensely idotic. Note, this is not about holding CEOs or boards of director's liable, this is about holding stockholders liable. He suggests a new industry, stockholder portfolio liability insurance, could be created to address the problem.

This, in one fell swoop, would crater the stock markets.

The end of LLCs would destroy many small businesses.

It would create a new kind of lawsuit: The reverse class action, where, instead of a class suing an individual, and individual could sue a class.

Could you imagine the poor rank and file Enron employees with their worthless stock in their 401k's being sued? In Badnarik's world, as Enron was bankrupt, those suing Enron could go after the homes and savings of the former employees.

This seems completely counter to the concept of the Libertarian Party, which in Badnarik view, must be about the liberty to sue.

Here are Badnarik's own words:

"Stockholders are owners, and should be liable for the consequences of that ownership like any other owners. I have no doubt that the market will come up with "portfolio insurance" to protect the stockholders from ruinous claims, but that in itself will provide a market check on unrestrained, unaccountable growth -- companies which act irresponsibly will find that their stockholders can't buy, or have to pay unreasonably high, insurance premiums, and therefore aren't interested in having the stock."

Of course, in Badnarik's world, I wonder who insures the stockholders of the portfolio insurance companies?

115 posted on 10/24/2004 1:53:34 PM PDT by magellan
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To: Y2Krap

As a Libertarian who is currently registered as a Republican and voting for Bush, I say...

...Thank God we can count on that extra .01 percent of the vote!

;-)


116 posted on 10/24/2004 1:53:58 PM PDT by freestyle
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To: tpaine
That's a great saying. Too bad that some self-avowed anarcho-Libertarians claim that casting a vote is participating in violence.
117 posted on 10/24/2004 1:54:52 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Y2Krap

Listen I was just challenged for this letter when I posted it. Should have read all the comments first. Lot's have asked for the source. Are you going to fess up or not? We want and need the source!


118 posted on 10/24/2004 2:00:17 PM PDT by bjctwicearound (twicearound)
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To: FredZarguna
Frankly, I had no problem taking the LP pledge that "One must never initiate the aggressive use of force," but it appears that too many L(l)ibertarians have forgotten that when Ayn Rand laid down that law, it had two parts to it, the second of which is, "and when aggressive force is used against one, he must never fail to respond."


Ayn Rand on the use of force:

"Dictatorship nations are outlaws. Any free nation had the right to invade Nazi Germany and, today, has the right to invade Soviet Russia, Cuba or any other slave pen. Whether a free nation chooses to do so or not is a matter of its own self-interest, not of respect for the non-existent "rights" of gang rulers. It is not a free nation's duty to liberate other nations at the price of self-sacrifice, but a free nation has the right to do it, when and if it so chooses."

"A slave nation has no national rights, but the individual rights of its citizens remain valid, even if unrecognized, and the conqueror has no right to violate them. Therefore, the invasion of an enslaved country is morally justified only when and if the conquerors establish a free social system, that is, a system based on the recognition of individual rights."

'Collectivized "Rights"', June 1963, The Virtue of Selfishness.

119 posted on 10/24/2004 2:00:43 PM PDT by Skylab
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To: Virginia-American
>>I think he'd be a great Canadian Prime Minister.

Ah, there we differ. I think Canada would make a great batch of US territories.

120 posted on 10/24/2004 2:05:33 PM PDT by Graymatter (Reload Bush/Cheney 2004)
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To: Y2Krap

This is GREAT! I'm saving this one to send to a few people I know...


121 posted on 10/24/2004 2:07:40 PM PDT by bootless (Never Forget - And Never Again)
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To: Y2Krap

Most intelligent libertarian post I've ever seen here.


122 posted on 10/24/2004 2:10:17 PM PDT by dennisw (Gd - against Amelek for all generations.)
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To: Cultural Jihad
"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another."

That's a great saying. Too bad that some self-avowed anarcho-Libertarians claim that casting a vote is participating in violence.

Too bad that some self-avowed conservative-jihadics feel it necessary to make unfounded & ridiculous claims about libertarians.
Strange game.

123 posted on 10/24/2004 2:21:29 PM PDT by tpaine (No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another. - T. Jefferson)
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To: Bearshouse; Mo1
I believe, my friends, we are in a Cold Civil War with the Democrat party

I've believed this to be true all my life, I'm glad some people are finally coming around to getting it.

124 posted on 10/24/2004 2:22:00 PM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (Real gun control is - all shots inside the ten ring)
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To: Copernicus
Any candidate, such as Mr. Kerry, who can rouse Swift Boat Veterans from their 30 year slumber deserves a term in the White House so as to invigorate all Americans who have lived on Automatic Pilot for the past century.

That reads like a Kerry endorsement.

125 posted on 10/24/2004 2:24:00 PM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (Real gun control is - all shots inside the ten ring)
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To: Y2Krap

Still not sure I believe that the letter is genuine.

I found a "real" e-mail address on the USC website and sent a quick note. (johnhospers@sprintmail.co) I'll see what happens.

AJ


126 posted on 10/24/2004 2:31:38 PM PDT by aj7360
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To: Psycho_Runner

Bill Maher is a bleeding heart liberal sycophant, pure and simple. If they pin the "largely independant" or "progressive" label on themselves, they're gutless liberals.


127 posted on 10/24/2004 2:41:35 PM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (Real gun control is - all shots inside the ten ring)
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To: Y2Krap

bump


128 posted on 10/24/2004 2:47:35 PM PDT by ellery (Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: aj7360
ATTENTION ALL SKEPTICS & NON-BELIEVERS***

Libertarian founding father - John Hospers -

is listed in the Los Angeles phone directory.

129 posted on 10/24/2004 2:49:34 PM PDT by Y2Krap (JOHN KERRY FOR PRESIDENT (Cue Music: "Uppa U.S."))
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To: aj7360

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

johnhospers@sprintmail.co




130 posted on 10/24/2004 2:55:50 PM PDT by OCMike
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To: OCMike

...just noticed. Might help to put a "c" in ".com"


131 posted on 10/24/2004 2:57:21 PM PDT by OCMike
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To: Y2Krap

Amen to that. If kerry is elected it will be awful for this country. So let's praise our Libertaian brother for this one.
God Bless


132 posted on 10/24/2004 2:59:30 PM PDT by RightWingBev
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To: OCMike
Delivery to the following recipients failed.
johnhospers@sprintmail.co

Of course it failed. You left off the "m" after "co"

133 posted on 10/24/2004 3:01:22 PM PDT by zeebee (John Kerry- whichever way the wind blows)
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To: zeebee

That's what I meant to say...:-)


134 posted on 10/24/2004 3:03:57 PM PDT by OCMike
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To: OCMike

DOH!


135 posted on 10/24/2004 3:06:18 PM PDT by aj7360
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To: yall
John Hospers wrote:

There is a belief that's common among many libertarians that there is no essential difference between the Democrat and Republican Parties --

This is a common belief because both Parties, in between election cycles, can be seen to ignore our Constitution in every aspect of political life.

between a John Kerry and a George W. Bush administration;

Parties control 'administrations', not the President. Nixon found this to be true, and Clinton almost did.

or worse: that a Bush administration would be more undesirable. Such a notion could not be farther from the truth, or potentially more harmful to the cause of liberty.

Hype. -- I doubt there are many actual libertarians for Kerry.
The big "L" party has been taken over by radicals of both left & right, people that don't even bother to pay lip service to Constitutional libertarian principles.
- In their own way, these faux-"L"ibertarians are 'potentially just as harmful to the cause of liberty' as the RinoCrats they oppose.

In reality, the present political party system is flawed; our Presidency & its power should be above partisan politics, not subservient to it.

136 posted on 10/24/2004 3:20:47 PM PDT by tpaine (No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another. - T. Jefferson)
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To: atomicpossum

What will shift a lot of libertarian voters is the libertarian party's complete AWOL stance on the war on islamofascism.


137 posted on 10/24/2004 3:39:01 PM PDT by ellery (Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Y2Krap

Great post. I read John Hospers book in 1972 and it really helped change my worldview. But I concluded awhile back that the Libertarian Party was not the best vehicle for advancing libertarian goals, especially given the uglieness that has descended upon the evil Democratic Party in the past decade. This election is all about national sovereignty and our absolute right to self-defence, even if it pisses off the French.


138 posted on 10/24/2004 4:44:17 PM PDT by kcar (theUNsucks.com)
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To: aj7360

FWIW...I contacted Dr. John Ray (this letter is on one of his blog sites too) and he said he receieved the letter directly from Dr. John Hospers in an e-mail. He claims he is certain it is genuine.
http://jonjayray.netfirms.com/main.html


139 posted on 10/24/2004 4:45:51 PM PDT by OCMike
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To: Y2Krap

I'd love to spread this around. Was this posted on a site? Any reliable verification online?


140 posted on 10/24/2004 5:25:48 PM PDT by nonkultur
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To: fritzz
So you are really doing is voting against W...obvious.

A vote for "the lesser of two evils" is still a vote for evil.

I vote FOR a Constitutional Representative Republic, unlike my conservative associates who abdicate by their absence at the polls when the issues are not quite to their taste.

George W. has had four years to sell his concepts to me in the free marketplace of ideas and, sad to say, I remain unimpressed.

Best regards,

141 posted on 10/24/2004 5:29:37 PM PDT by Copernicus (A Constitutional Republic revolves around Sovereign Citizens, not citizens around government.)
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To: BigSkyFreeper
That reads like a Kerry endorsement.

I can not understand why. The Swift Boat Veterans remained silent about Kerry's service for 30 years and now suddenly they wish to expose the whole story.

This is a very good development. Perhaps they will go on to found a news network and persue even more important topics.

Best regards,

142 posted on 10/24/2004 5:35:41 PM PDT by Copernicus (A Constitutional Republic revolves around Sovereign Citizens, not citizens around government.)
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To: magellan
Badnarik, as a Libertarian, believes in the checks and balances of a free market economy.

These artificial creatures of law called "corporations" actually limit checks and balances rather than encourage them.

Best regards,

143 posted on 10/24/2004 5:40:31 PM PDT by Copernicus (A Constitutional Republic revolves around Sovereign Citizens, not citizens around government.)
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To: Cultural Jihad
H. Ron Hubbard passed on years ago.

Scientology founder.

144 posted on 10/24/2004 5:49:05 PM PDT by lonestar (Me, too!--Weinie)
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To: Y2Krap; tpaine; OrthodoxPresbyterian; A.J.Armitage
George Bush has been criticized for many things – and in many cases with justification: on campaign finance reform (a suppression of the First Amendment), on vast new domestic spending, on education, and on failing to protect the borders. No self-respecting libertarian or conservative would fail to be deeply appalled by these.

i'm more than a little skeptical concerning the legitimacy of this letter. It is known that Libertarians support OPEN BORDERS, and were Bush to be criticised by the Libertarians it would be for having too strict a policy.

i do not know what Mr. Hosper's view is on this particular issue, and i am aware that from time to time Libertarians disagree with the Party Platform, but this looks very suspicious. This would appear to appeal more to the Constitutionalist Party than to Libertarians. What's next? An 'open letter' from Howard Phillips endoursing Bush?

145 posted on 10/24/2004 5:52:05 PM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord (I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum! ~Roddy Piper)
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To: lonestar
Ah, thanks. I confused one fantasy science fiction writer who likes to create faux religions with another.
146 posted on 10/24/2004 5:54:30 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad

Too bad that some self-avowed conservative-jihadics feel it necessary to make unfounded & ridiculous claims about libertarians.

Strange game you play, CJ.


147 posted on 10/24/2004 6:05:58 PM PDT by tpaine (No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another. - T. Jefferson)
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To: FredZarguna
That was the day I heard Harry Brown say on O'Rielly's show that we should deal with OBL by way of the institutions of international law.

I like the other libertarian idea of giving $1 billion to the person who brings us UBL's head. It would have saved a lot of trouble.

148 posted on 10/24/2004 6:46:12 PM PDT by killjoy (Girl you know its... girl you know its... girl you know its...)
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To: killjoy

I would have been fine with that idea.


149 posted on 10/24/2004 6:51:22 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Wearing BLACK Pajamas, in honor of Hanoi John)
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To: FredZarguna
I would have been fine with that idea.

Nothing like letting the free market do it's job. :)

150 posted on 10/24/2004 6:53:09 PM PDT by killjoy (Girl you know its... girl you know its... girl you know its...)
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