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WHY I AM SUPPORTING JOHN KERRY. Risk Management (Sullivan)
The New Republic ^ | October 26, 2004 | Andrew Sullivan

Posted on 10/26/2004 1:45:29 PM PDT by ARCADIA

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To: ARCADIA

Do you really expect anyone to read all that s**t?


101 posted on 10/26/2004 3:12:01 PM PDT by matchwood
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To: ARCADIA

He was also a Gore voter in 2000. Sullivan has a fatal flaw... total self absorption and an ability to sublimate his pet social issues to national security.


102 posted on 10/26/2004 3:13:39 PM PDT by faithincowboys
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To: ARCADIA
Any reelection starts with the incumbent. Bush has had some notable achievements. He was right to cut taxes as the economy headed toward recession; he was right to push for strong federal standards for education; he was right to respond to September 11 by deposing the Taliban; he was right to alert the world to the unknown dangers, in the age of Al Qaeda, of Saddam Hussein's Iraq. He is still right that democratization is the only ultimate security in an age of Jihadist terror. And when you see women bravely exercising their right to vote in Afghanistan, you are seeing something that would not have happened without our current president. That moral achievement can never be taken away from him.

And that's why I'm voting for him. Thanks Andrew.

103 posted on 10/26/2004 3:18:21 PM PDT by ILS21R (Vote)
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To: Pikamax
"gay marriage is the only real reason he is endorsing Kerry"

Bingo. He cares more about his pet issue than defending this country, IMHO.

104 posted on 10/26/2004 3:20:16 PM PDT by mbennett203
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To: veronica
His homosexual agenda trumps everything.

And for what? A slightly lower tax burden, and uncontested hospital visitation privileges, and "spousal" property rights?

We all know why the last two are so important to them. They are so prone to dying early, alone, and without anyone who cares.

But public schools are teaching our children that it's just a simple lifestyle choice and the only consequences are from prejudice.

105 posted on 10/26/2004 3:24:59 PM PDT by risk
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To: Pikamax
Sullivan uses many words when his real reasoning can be explained simply: buggery, buggery and buggery.
106 posted on 10/26/2004 3:28:47 PM PDT by radicalamericannationalist (Kurtz had the right answer but the wrong location.)
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To: ARCADIA

Sullivan is full of it. The absence of WMD isn't a miserable failure.

There is ample proof of both manufacture and of intent to deliver. It's as plain as the nose on people's faces.

What people evidently want is large stockpiles of nuclear material. Most of that went to Syria, along with bio/chem agents that Syria deployed in Africa not two months ago.

Iraq is a front in a larger war, and Kerry's choice of campaign strategy - to politicize what is ultimately our national strategy of fighting this conflict on their soil rather than ours - has put us all in jeopardy by sapping our resolve to take the fight where it ultimately must go - Iran and Syria.

Nothing pure and simple about WMD's not being there. Iraq was a clear and present danger that had on multiple occasions publicly expressed the intent to attack America and Americans where ever they were found. On the basis of that, we could no longer afford to wait until a threat had manifested itself materially.

We struck pre-emptively.

The justification of such action is made best by your candidate Kerry on the floor of the Senate in 2002. You can look in Rush's archive for the transcript which played today.

Sullivan's points are garbage - every last one. Sullivan hates Bush because Bush opposes gay marriage. Period.

Post 9/11 Sullivan was a big Bush fan and then flipped when Bush came out for the FMA. That's it.

If you are going to peddal liberal analysis, try peddaling Christopher Hitchens instead. Man comes out and honestly says why he differs with Bush, but sees a complete absence of resolve to do what must be done in the middle east on the left.

It's a single issue election this year, my friend. The fact that you and I are still alive to have this discussion is the issue.


107 posted on 10/26/2004 3:29:57 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs (The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.)
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To: ARCADIA
In other words....I'm holding my nose real real hard when I vote for Kerry, but any right thinking intelligent human being can see that Bush is evil and stupid and incompetent and Kerry is better.

Translation...of course, I always vote Democrat anyway, so this is all just BS and another excuse to point out how evil and bad GWB is...ain't I thoughtful and clever.
108 posted on 10/26/2004 3:32:28 PM PDT by ml1954 (Kerry, A Legend In His Own Mind.)
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To: ARCADIA
Well, he sounds conflicted in his endorsement of Kerry. I guess Sullivan can't get past the how differently the war has turned out as expected.

RECAP - I think that he makes some strong points -

The absence of WMDs is just a miserable failure, pure and simple.

Not anticipating the strength of the insurgency - also a major mistake


I have a hard time getting past these two issues as well




Funny how you can't get pass those issues yet refuse to acknowledge that John Kerry voted FOR the war. AND in 1998 was one of the Senate prime sponsors for the 1998 Dec bombing of Iraq?
So please tell the truth. Why will you not hold Kerry accountable for supporting the war?
109 posted on 10/26/2004 3:43:32 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Vote Bush 2004-We cannot survive a 9-10 President in a 9-11 World)
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To: ARCADIA

My friends think I'm well-informed; that's because I review the Free Republic everyday. I also read the New York Times, the Washington Post


There is your problem. Try branching out to more balanced intellectualy honest reading materials.

Try

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/


Also, try Hugh Hewitt.com and read the blogs he links to.


110 posted on 10/26/2004 3:46:19 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Vote Bush 2004-We cannot survive a 9-10 President in a 9-11 World)
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To: conserv13

It is telling how a lot of the posters here have not made any arguments against Sullivan except that he is gay.



Actually what is telling here is that Sullivan's arguements are suspectbecause he is rationalizing his betrayal of his supposed prinicpals over one basically trival civil issue, Gay Marrage


111 posted on 10/26/2004 3:49:49 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Vote Bush 2004-We cannot survive a 9-10 President in a 9-11 World)
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To: ARCADIA
Andrew, perhaps it's better if you don't vote at all.

Your willingness to bet on an unknown unproven candidate,
one with a history of duplicity, and a lackluster
performance in twenty years of public life is shocking,
although perhaps not that shocking to those of us who
have observed your party's behavior over the last 12 years.

You have accepted Kerry as you accepted Clinton, refusing
to look beneath the surface to the dark slimy underside
which makes up both of those men.

Clinton brought you shame which you won't admit, Kerry
will bring you defeat and death, which you cannot avoid.

Fortunately, it's not up to you, WE the people could not
close our eyes to the filth and smut you and your party
have rubbed in our noses all this time, and we are going
to put a stop to it NOW.

112 posted on 10/26/2004 3:51:43 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: conserv13
"he makes some good points."

No, he doesn't.

That's why he's treated so disdainfully.

If you'd like to defend any of his "good points", feel free to do so instead of being snide.

113 posted on 10/26/2004 3:56:31 PM PDT by mrsmith ("Oyez, oyez! All rise for the Honorable Chief Justice... Hillary Rodham Clinton ")
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To: ARCADIA

Who would have believed Andrew Sullivan and Christopher Hitchens reversing roles.


114 posted on 10/26/2004 4:25:45 PM PDT by philo
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Comment #115 Removed by Moderator

Comment #116 Removed by Moderator

To: ARCADIA
The lack of stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq remains one of the biggest blows to America's international credibility in a generation.

This is nonsense.

The intelligence agencies of France, Germany, Russia, Isreal, Jordan and virtually EVERY nation INCLUDING those opposed to the war said the SAME THING America did about the existance tof WMDs. As did the UN.

For you to claim that this is a blow to America's credibility as if nobody else was saying so is simply dishonest.

117 posted on 10/26/2004 5:00:20 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: ARCADIA

Yeah, but will he actually VOTE for him?? Don't you think he will get stomach cramps?


118 posted on 10/26/2004 5:02:01 PM PDT by Another Thought
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To: rj45mis
"Hey, I'm a Butt Pirate, too"

Shit ahoy, mate!

LOL! ROFL!

119 posted on 10/26/2004 5:14:12 PM PDT by mafree
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To: ARCADIA

"The lack of stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq remains one of the biggest blows to America's international credibility in a generation".


I stopped reading right there and that sentence is absolute hogwash. International credibility?Hey Andrew why don't you do a whole expose on the U.N. Oil-For-Food Scandal??? Internatinal credibility---LMAO! (God I wish Ronald Reagan was still alive!) I have pics saved of Iraqi Fighter planes covered by monstrous piles of sand, does that mean we've found all the planes? No one considers the possibility that Saddam was 'lying, just to keep the world at bay'. He had scientists create chemical weapons to kill ( and literally test on) his own people. Those irrefutable pictures can be seen here.-----> http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html

Am I to believe a Lying tyrant named Saddam Hussein didn't create any more Chemical Weapons since 1988, BECAUSE WE CAN'T FIND THEM NOW????? Anyone who believes that is a simply a ninny, a kook AND a liberal. He wanted the UN Inspectors out of his country and gave them the run-around for years.Why? Why? Why is that? All we heard about for YEARS was how he harassed the inspectors after 1992.

This G.D. Liberal Dogma makes me ill and is why I don't watch the Evening News anymore. I am confident there is a special place in hell for incessant liars.


120 posted on 10/26/2004 5:21:10 PM PDT by Pagey (Hillary has been eerily silent lately, just like when she ran the War Room in the West Wing in 98,99)
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To: accipter

You are a troll.


121 posted on 10/26/2004 5:22:10 PM PDT by prairiebreeze (Iraq had WMD. End of story.)
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bump


122 posted on 10/26/2004 5:24:31 PM PDT by meema
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To: conserv13
It is telling how a lot of the posters here have not made any arguments against Sullivan except that he is gay.

I only scanned Sullivan's article and found numerous factual errors and extremely weak arguments.
Those who claim Sullivan only opposes Bush because he of the gay marriage issue might well be right.

123 posted on 10/26/2004 5:32:53 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: ARCADIA

Do any conservatives look at his blog any more? Every time I take a peek, I just see warmed-over DNC talking points and interminable rants on the gay rights movement. Not much factual accuracy or historical knowledge. A complete waste of time.


124 posted on 10/26/2004 6:36:36 PM PDT by DianeDePoitiers
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To: ARCADIA
Abu Ghraib. In one gut-wrenching moment, the moral integrity of the war was delivered an almost fatal blow. To be involved in such a vital struggle and through a mixture of negligence and arrogance to have facilitated such a fantastic propaganda victory for the enemy is just unforgivable.

The idea that putting women's panties on prisoner's heads gives a moral victory to those who feed people through plastic shredders and saw their heads off in videos is beyond absurd.

Is Sullivan trying to make us laugh on purpose or what?

125 posted on 10/26/2004 6:56:03 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: ARCADIA
RECAP - I think that he makes some strong points -

The absence of WMDs is just a miserable failure, pure and simple.

Not anticipating the strength of the insurgency - also a major mistake

I have a hard time getting past these two issues as well

One of the biggest factors in the Iraq situation is overlooked by many critics, and Andrew Sullivan overlooks it as well:

The American opposition party, and the American media (but I repeat myself...), were both willing to commit treason in order to regain political power.

Dozens of American soldiers and hundreds of innocent Iraqis have paid with their lives for the aid and comfort given to the insurgents by the Democrats in Congress and in the media.

If people who worked for your company were allowed to sabotage the operations of your company for the promise of better jobs and higher pay, what do you think your place of business would look like?

It would be an unholy shambles, wouldn't it?

BTW - if Kerry gains power through these machinations, he'd better remember that TWO can play that game, and we're more practiced at tubing a corrupt administration.

126 posted on 10/26/2004 8:13:55 PM PDT by an amused spectator (Iraq: Location, Location, Location)
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To: rlmorel

Great. Thanks for saying so well.


127 posted on 10/26/2004 8:25:04 PM PDT by BethforAmerica
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To: ARCADIA

Andrew Sullivan is a gay, partisan hack.

People don't fall for this nonsense. Don't worry.


128 posted on 10/26/2004 8:34:53 PM PDT by TaxRelief (380 Tons sounds like WMD to me. One-third of a Kiloton. That's huge.)
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To: ARCADIA
The absence of WMDs is just a miserable failure, pure and simple.

Not anticipating the strength of the insurgency - also a major mistake

I have a hard time getting past these two issues as well

With that mentality, you'd have been begging for a truce in Spring, 1943 -- after Kasserine Pass.

Fortunately, you weren't (and aren't) in charge.

129 posted on 10/26/2004 8:40:13 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: ARCADIA

Did I see a link on Sullivan's website to "Fisting Saffire"?

This creep has let his faggotry take him around the bend.

He won't be missed.


130 posted on 10/26/2004 8:41:53 PM PDT by jackbill
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To: StephenNYC
Hey, I'm a Butt Pirate, too...

There is a reason you popped in here, and it's not to tell us that you are supporting President Bush.

You live in a place that encourages perverted sexuality. The people that are encouraging you to practice this unnatural self-gratification do not care about YOU; the only thing they want is a piece of your a**.

You're welcome here, but know that we will do everything in our power to bring you back into the fold of God's natural law and love.

131 posted on 10/26/2004 8:43:54 PM PDT by TaxRelief (380 Tons sounds like WMD to me. One-third of a Kiloton. That's huge.)
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To: KC_Conspirator

Both Sullivan and Hitchens are leftists...socialists...they wanted an excuse to support Kerry
and the problems of the Iraq occupation have given them one...they were never our friends.


132 posted on 10/26/2004 8:47:07 PM PDT by Bushbacker (ttl)
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To: ARCADIA
This entire article is window-dressing and not worth the bits and pixels.

We all know what this is about. The butt-sex. Addiction is terrible. It deeply affects judgment and it makes one say the most idiotic things.

I pray for Andy.
133 posted on 10/26/2004 8:55:18 PM PDT by Antoninus (A conservative bases his politics on his morals. ... A liberal bases his morals on his politics.)
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To: ARCADIA

134 posted on 10/26/2004 8:59:46 PM PDT by Antoninus (A conservative bases his politics on his morals. ... A liberal bases his morals on his politics.)
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To: mrsmith
If you'd like to defend any of his "good points", feel free to do so instead of being snide.

Okay. I consider myself fairly conservative and libertarian. I share some of Sullivan's problems with Bush, such as Bush's out of control spending and increase in the size of government, and his suppport of a constitutional amendment defining marriage.

135 posted on 10/27/2004 6:47:56 AM PDT by conserv13
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To: conserv13
It is telling how a lot of the posters here have not made any arguments against Sullivan except that he is gay.

Thank you!

136 posted on 10/27/2004 7:30:13 AM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: Dr. Frank fan
Who didn't anticipate the strength of the insurgency? It's no stronger than I anticipated it would be.

The war planners - they were thinking of bringing the troop number to 30,000 two months after "mission accomplished"

137 posted on 10/27/2004 7:33:09 AM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: Retiredforever

I don't think the prison scandal is that bad and IMHO, I don't Arabs think its that bad. Nothing like what their prisons are like.


138 posted on 10/27/2004 7:34:31 AM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: wvobiwan

Rooting is not the same thing as abetting!


139 posted on 10/27/2004 7:35:42 AM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: KMAJ2
It is the intelligence communities failure, not Bush's.

The intelligence agencies are part of the executive branch. Sorry, this is no excuse; it happened on his watch.

Is he supposed to have a crystal ball and known that Iraq's military would fold so quickly and disappear into the populace?

Come on! Even I considered that possibility!

140 posted on 10/27/2004 7:39:18 AM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: Mister Baredog

I don't the division in the US is their major motivation.


141 posted on 10/27/2004 7:41:01 AM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: Dr.Deth
1) Insurgents don't come from Syria and Saudi. Those are terrorists.

Then why didn't we deploy enough troops to seal the borders.

2) Name a single war that went "exactly as expected"..

None, but the miscalculations in this one are very troubling because it was a war of choice.

3) Your backhanded insinuation that we're better off with Saddam in power and no definitive word on WMD's, than we are with no Saddam and no WMD's, is ludicrous on it's face. .

It's the fact that WMDs were the reason for War in a war of choice.

142 posted on 10/27/2004 7:46:07 AM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: ARCADIA
[Who didn't anticipate the strength of the insurgency? It's no stronger than I anticipated it would be.] The war planners - they were thinking of bringing the troop number to 30,000 two months after "mission accomplished"

First of all (not that I necessarily doubt you), which "war planners"? "The"? All of them? Do you have a link?

Second: "thinking of"? Ok, well, I was thinking of winning the lottery. Didn't happen. Big deal. When it transpired that I didn't win the lottery, I made life decisions accordingly. When it transpired that it didn't make sense to reduce the troop # to 30000 (if indeed "the" war planners ever seriously entertained such an idea), they didn't.

The point?

143 posted on 10/27/2004 7:53:19 AM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: ARCADIA
BTW, *my* point is that it's frivolous to point to these logistical and tactical issues and call them 'mistakes', as if there has EVER been a war in which one side or the other didn't regularly make such 'mistakes'. The bottom line is, whatever they were "thinking of", in reality, they never did reduce the troop #'s to 30000, did they? So even if you consider that contingency-plan a 'mistake', it never happened thus had no effect. They adjusted.

All grownups should understand that this is what war is, you know, like. The nature of war is such that there is an enemy working against your wishes. This idea that you can "calculate" (by computer?) precisely what should be done, and get the "right answers", and then the war goes perfectly - the only word that comes to mind is, infantile.

144 posted on 10/27/2004 7:59:49 AM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: ARCADIA
1) Insurgents don't come from Syria and Saudi. Those are terrorists.
Then why didn't we deploy enough troops to seal the borders.

Why would we do a daft thing like that? Would you rather have terrorists in Iraq facing M1-A1s, or here in your grade schools? Bush alluded to this at his acceptance speech in his acceptance speech, but it was subtle and went right over everyone's heads. A major undeclared policy goal in Iraq seems to have been to draw terrorists, and kill them. Of course, you don't announce that to terrorists.

2) Name a single war that went "exactly as expected"..
None, but the miscalculations in this one are very troubling because it was a war of choice.

The only real major miscalculation in the war is underestimating the degrees to which a Fifth Column Socialist media will go to undermine policy. This includes your daily casualty reports, Abu Ghraib, and the latest attempted mountain of QaQaa, just for starters.

3) Your backhanded insinuation that we're better off with Saddam in power and no definitive word on WMD's, than we are with no Saddam and no WMD's, is ludicrous on it's face.
It's the fact that WMDs were the reason for War in a war of choice.

It's the announced reason, and still a good one. Every credible world figure and intelligence source including your boy Kerry agreed: before the Iraq war it was believed Saddam had, or was seeking to acquire, WMDs. Saddam's failure to comply with U.N. directives could only be interpreted as circumstantial corroboration of the notion. Even if he had no WMDs and knew it, he wanted people to think he did.

Your argument is similar to this: say a man were to walk into a bank with his hand in his pocket, telling the clerk he had a gun. A security guard shoots him. His cooling corpse is searched and no weapon is found. According to the point you are arguing, you would be more troubled by the failure to find a gun, or the shooting of the robber was a "shooting of choice." This is what we call in the vernacular, "a piss-poor argument." Sane people would be more troubled by there being a robber in a bank, and would be relieved that he was blown away.

By all means, feel as troubled as you wish; vote for Kerry and file complaints against all those security guards who shoot bank robbers while you're at it.

145 posted on 10/27/2004 8:06:22 AM PDT by Dr.Deth
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To: ARCADIA
It's the fact that WMDs were the reason for War in a war of choice.

Not exactly. It was the potential nexus between Saddam, a know user of WMD and the terrorists we chased like cockroaches out of their caves in Afghanistan. Do you remember the video found in a cave of a puppy being gassed?

How could we even pretend to be fighting a WOT with Saddam sitting in Baghdad paying suicide bombers $25,000 each, hosting some of the worlds most wanted terrorists, and shooting at British and American planes daily.

The WMD issue was emphasized because it was the only common ground at the pathetic UN.

In fact they all agreed, until the day of reconing arrived.

If you really think this was a war of choice then you must have been out of town on 9/11. Do you miss the good ole days when Clintoon just ignored the terrorists. After all HE was President the first time these scumbags tried to knock down the World Trade Center, he did nothing to fight back for 8 years, that's why we have this mess in the first place, if you really liked those good ole days you'll love President sKerry.

146 posted on 10/27/2004 8:21:30 AM PDT by Mister Baredog ((Part of the Reagan legacy is to re-elect G.W. Bush))
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To: ARCADIA

Right Andie, deliver America to Satan for love of sodomy.


147 posted on 10/27/2004 8:33:58 AM PDT by Navy Patriot
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To: ARCADIA
The absence of WMDs is just a miserable failure, pure and simple.

Why do you say that?

148 posted on 10/27/2004 8:38:18 AM PDT by HenryLeeII ("How do you ask a goose to be the last goose to die for a shameless political stunt?" -Tony in Ohio)
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To: ARCADIA
Are you a troll? I do not have a problem getting moving past anything accept the drastic changes Kerry will force on this country if elected. If Kerry wins, most of the values that made this country strong will go down the crapper like so much other horse dung that Kerry puts out.

You liberals think that your have the market cornered on smarts and from this viewpoint, it just is not so. How anyone could vote for a person who was a traitor to his country and comrade in arms is beyond me.

This Sullivan person says he wants to leave his doubts to democracy. What a sorry excuse to vote for Kerry. That kind of attitude lends itself to incompetence in the system. Democracy is not something to be left to the whims of waffle minded people like John Kerry. Democracy is something that needs participation.

I believe John Kerry and his ilk believe that 9-11 did not change them. A person has to ask what kind of person would not be changed by the ramming of airplanes into occupied buildings. Do you really want a person who would admit to being so heartless as to summarily dismiss as no big deal the deaths of 3,000 of our precious citizens? I doubt that those individuals jumping out of the 95th floor of the Twin Towers would have agreed with your thinking.

It is scary that John Kerry can lie and conjure up illegal stories. He does this for anything that suits his fancy. Like Al Dimwit Gore, he is so arrogant that he can do nothing but complain about a president that may be just the greatest of all time. Kerry and his crowd have based their whole election on hate. The last time we saw that scenario Adolph Hitler was taking over Germany.

I would ask you Andrew to rethink and vote for a free and safe America.
149 posted on 10/27/2004 8:57:51 AM PDT by OKIEDOC (LL THE)
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To: ARCADIA
It's the fact that WMDs were the reason for War in a war of choice.

Do you have any proof of this? Hint: Read the congressional war resolution that Kerry and Edwards signed. Also, do you have proof that WMD have not been found? I keep hearing this clap-trap from the Kool-Aid Brigade, but from what I've read, the only WMD-related criteria for going into Iraq have been fulfilled by what has been found.

When you post stuff on Free Republic, please be ready, willing, and able to back it up.

150 posted on 10/27/2004 11:35:18 AM PDT by HenryLeeII ("How do you ask a goose to be the last goose to die for a shameless political stunt?" -Tony in Ohio)
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