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BUSH ADMINISTRATION ERRORS AGAIN IN LEAVING MAC LABOR SEAT COLD (NATCA's New Ad Blasting Bush)
National Air Traffic Controller Association ^ | 10-25-04 | NATCA

Posted on 10/26/2004 4:06:07 PM PDT by Se7eN

BUSH ADMINISTRATION ERRORS AGAIN IN LEAVING MAC LABOR SEAT COLD

10/25/2004

WASHINGTON – In a stinging, backhanded slap to the face of transportation labor just eight days before the presidential election, the Bush Administration has appointed three new members to the Federal Aviation Administration’s Management Advisory Council (MAC) while once again deliberately leaving the seat for a union representative vacant.

The council advises the FAA on policy, budget and regulations. It was established by the FAA Reauthorization Act of 1996 and consists of 18 members who serve three-year terms. The president appoints 10 members and five more are appointed by the transportation secretary. According to a FAA press release on Sept. 19, 2000, the MAC also includes “one designee each from the Department of Transportation, the Department of Defense and an air traffic services union.”

The labor representative is also appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate for a three-year term as long as they remain a leader of their respective union. Subsequent appointments will be made by the Secretary of Transportation.

But the labor seat has never been filled, an abomination which National Air Traffic Controllers Association President John Carr blamed on “politics and a disdain for the workers who keep our air traffic system the safest and best in the world.”

“It’s outrageous, but certainly not all that shocking to watch as the Bush Administration again thumbs its nose at transportation labor and works to deny us our rightful seat at a most important table that is tasked with making sure the FAA fulfills its mission of providing a safe and efficient air traffic system,” Carr said. “I call on the administration to provide a reason why the labor seat is again sitting cold and idle while they work to put fresh faces on the MAC from all other segments of the aviation world.”

Added Carr: “Given the important tasks and challenges facing the aviation industry and the MAC, NATCA believes that it is imperative that labor be represented on the MAC before any further business is conducted.”

In January, 2001, Carr submitted his name to the White House and Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta requesting that he be nominated to serve as the labor representative to the MAC. Carr had personal conversations with both Secretary Mineta and the former FAA administrator on the matter, sent letters and testified before the Congressional aviation authorizing and appropriation committees asking for their support of his candidacy. Numerous members of Congress contacted the Administration on his behalf.

“NATCA is the logical choice to represent the unions of air traffic control system employees. But at this point, I’d just like to see the seat filled, if not by NATCA then with another labor representative,” Carr concluded. “Organized labor must be on the MAC.”


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: airtrafficcontroller; laborunion; natca
The ad they are running says that Bush refuses to hire new air traffic controllers. Their press release, however, says that the administration simply wont fill the labor union seat. Why, I don't know. I'm gonna research it more and hope the folks here can break it down more. It seems absurd to say "disdain for the workers who keep our air traffic system the safest and best in the world."

So it's the 'safest and best in the world' yet they are complaining. Ok..

1 posted on 10/26/2004 4:06:09 PM PDT by Se7eN
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To: Se7eN

I just saw their silly ad here in Florida and thought WHAT? What the hell are these idiots talking about? I have never seen a story, anywhere, about Bush not hiring ATCs. I imagine that is a common reaction.


2 posted on 10/26/2004 4:10:22 PM PDT by MisterRepublican
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To: Se7eN
Do a Reagan on 'em.
3 posted on 10/26/2004 4:10:32 PM PDT by atomicpossum (If there are two Americas, John Edwards isn't qualified to lead either of them.)
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To: Se7eN

I saw the ad on CNN this afternoon. It was not very effective.


4 posted on 10/26/2004 4:11:10 PM PDT by okstate (I'm John Kerry, and I approved this message... before I decided against it.)
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To: Se7eN

The Bush administration didn't hire me to do something. I guess I'd better form a 527 and complain.


5 posted on 10/26/2004 4:11:44 PM PDT by July 4th (You need to click "Abstimmen")
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To: July 4th

This is such a weak and unprofessional ad, that it looks almost like a spoof or parody of a real one. Weak, not believable, and no impact against Bush.


6 posted on 10/26/2004 4:14:27 PM PDT by raptor29
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To: okstate

Gee, a labour union is against Bush. Next, you will tell me that Pope John Paul II is Catholic.


7 posted on 10/26/2004 4:15:34 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (The real Kerry-Edwards election slogan: "Attacked at Home, ridiculed abroad.")
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To: Se7eN

It's a silly ad. I'm an FAA air traffic controller, hired in 2003 when Bush was president, so that shoots down their assertion right there.

At my facility, Kerry doesn't have 100% support of NATCA members. Several controllers, including myself, are voting for Bush next week.


8 posted on 10/26/2004 4:16:38 PM PDT by Sting 11
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To: Se7eN

Please use the original headline/title when posting to help prevent duplicates. Thanks.


9 posted on 10/26/2004 4:17:46 PM PDT by Sidebar Moderator
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To: Se7eN
this is a labor union that's been hysterically anti-GOP since reagan fired most if them.

sour grapes.

10 posted on 10/26/2004 4:19:27 PM PDT by smonk
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To: raptor29

Very weak and unprofessional. As a controller, I'm embarassed by it.


11 posted on 10/26/2004 4:21:43 PM PDT by Sting 11
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To: Se7eN

NATCA has a long range game plan that goes as follows:

First, a series of expensive feel-good ads showing how great controllers are and how they keep us safe. These ran for the last year.

Next, a little more strident ad showing that they are understaffed and need more help.

Now, some really bitter ads claiming that flying isn't safe and it's all Bush's fault. Conveniently timed to just before the election.

The end game: If Kerry wins, a strike next year for more new hires (allowing them to work fewer hours). If Bush wins, no strike (remember Reagan?), but work-to-rule slowdowns to get concessions.

This new generation of controllers, who get to retire on a cushy pension while you are still paying off your tuition loans, has not learned from the mistakes of their fired predecessors. Of course, they are salted with some fired troublemakers whom Clinton rehired.

Get ready for cancelled flights and long waits in the airports come next summer - these crybabies are trouble.


12 posted on 10/26/2004 4:31:01 PM PDT by oldbill
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To: Sting 11
It's a silly ad. I'm an FAA air traffic controller, hired in 2003 when Bush was president,

That says it all, I love FRee Republic, thank you.

13 posted on 10/26/2004 4:32:38 PM PDT by Mister Baredog ((Part of the Reagan legacy is to re-elect G.W. Bush))
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To: Se7eN

All I read was, "waaaaaah, waaaaah, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah".


14 posted on 10/26/2004 4:33:52 PM PDT by Fledermaus (Kerry is a Nuanced Nuisance!)
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To: Sting 11

I have seen the ad at least 3 times this afternoon here in Dallas - I thought it was really stupid.


15 posted on 10/26/2004 4:34:25 PM PDT by finallyatexan
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To: Se7eN

Excuse me .. can we get real here people .. WHAT UNION SUPPORTS THE PRESIDENT ..?? ZERO - ZIP - NADA !!!

Why should the President go out of his way to give them a voice.


16 posted on 10/26/2004 4:35:23 PM PDT by The Final Harvest (Election 2004: This election is for the SOUL OF AMERICA)
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To: Se7eN

So, NACYA has been able to steal enough loot from members to be able to afford political TV ads (and the kickbacks/skimming to union officers), great! Having a union rep on a transportation panel will be about as effective as talking to one of Kerry's political scumbags. All you get is lies and the party line. They offer no constructive comments, only what their left wing, in this case, anti-management masters have ordered them to say.


17 posted on 10/26/2004 4:39:18 PM PDT by Tacis (Kerry - It Is All About Providing Aid And Comfort To The Enemies Of America!)
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To: Se7eN
...a stinging, backhanded slap to the face of transportation labor...

So, what's not to like?

18 posted on 10/26/2004 4:40:56 PM PDT by TheMole
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To: Se7eN
Thirty years ago they were called PATCO, they were going to show Reagan where the bear went. We all know what happened. These young turks have learned nothing. Always whining, sniveling and running their mouths. During PATCO time we asked them why not resign and take their immense talents elsewhere, not a one resigned. The vast majority of these people never had such a good paying job as they have now.

Like the PATCO people, they would be selling lumber for Home Depot.

19 posted on 10/26/2004 4:46:12 PM PDT by cynicom (<p)
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To: oldbill
NATCA national's strong stance for Kerry isn't evident at the local level, at least at my facility. We're pretty much split down the middle. I would presume that many other facilities are the same way...controllers come from all walks of life, lots of us are conservatives.

As for under-staffing, it is something that will occur eventually, but despite what NATCA is saying, hiring is taking place by this administration (if it wasn't, I'd be doing something completely different for a career). I'm confident that a second Bush administration would hire enough controllers to bridge the retirement gap; they aren't stupid.

As for a strike, don't bet on that, ever. Many NATCA members would simply laugh at the union if they called for a strike. We have a good job and we aren't about to risk it like that. I know lots of controllers who share this sentiment.
20 posted on 10/26/2004 4:46:36 PM PDT by Sting 11
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To: Se7eN

My dear husband is a controller who was hired after the strike. IMO Natca's main beef is that Bush declared ATC, um what were the exact words....I believe 'not inherently governmental', or something to that effect, which could open it to privatization. At his location, however there are many pro-bush individuals who, rightly so, thumb their noses at their rather myopic union...and they do so luuuvvvv switching on fox news.


21 posted on 10/26/2004 4:49:47 PM PDT by jswaj_23
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To: cynicom

Again, there is a dichotomy between the union bosses and the average controller. We might whine an complain every once in a while (who doesn't?), but we all know how good our job is and we aren't about to risk losing it (although, I think with my degree I could find a better alternate job than a board-cutter at Home Depot).

NATCA national gets marching orders from the AFL-CIO as much if not more than it does from it's own constituency.


22 posted on 10/26/2004 4:52:33 PM PDT by Sting 11
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To: MisterRepublican

Yeah I saw the same ad. WTF -- was my response. It made no sense just coming out of the blue like that.


23 posted on 10/26/2004 4:53:58 PM PDT by snooker
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To: Se7eN

Blasting Bush my butt. They just need to shut up because Bush is going to win this election.


24 posted on 10/26/2004 4:54:05 PM PDT by BlindGuardian ("You'll pay for this Captain Planet!")
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To: jswaj_23
Hehe, we watch Fox News at work a lot, too :-)

That is exactly right, by the way. Bush did declare ATC not inherently governmental. Whether that is good or bad is up for debate. As for myself, I prefer items of national infrastructure to be federally controlled (I held that opinion prior to becoming a controller, too).

When it comes to my vote, though, I'm not going to be a single-issue voter. I agree with Bush on almost everything else, and the thought of Kerry, Holbrooke and company running the war on terror scares the life out of me.

Bush has this Ohio ATC's vote next Tuesday!
25 posted on 10/26/2004 4:58:06 PM PDT by Sting 11
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To: Sting 11

Thank you for taking time to explain this preplexing ad/situation.


26 posted on 10/26/2004 5:02:16 PM PDT by Howlin (Bush has claimed two things which Democrats believe they own by right: the presidency & the future)
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To: Sting 11
F. Lee Bailey sold the PATCO members on their invincibility.

It was embarassing to those of us that warned them to use caution. I had good friends that would not listen, they truly believed they could walk on water. Well many found out just how important they were. People with 15 years or more went down the drain.

I was party to them trying to come crawling back, do anything to get their job back. Having friends at AT-1,I saw the whining that went on.

27 posted on 10/26/2004 5:03:47 PM PDT by cynicom (<p)
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To: Howlin

You're welcome. I'm a long-time lurker at this site, but I thought I had something to add to this discussion given what I do for a living.


28 posted on 10/26/2004 5:09:08 PM PDT by Sting 11
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To: Sting 11

Absolutely. And I can't wait to drop that "inside information" at the next party I am at.........LOL.


29 posted on 10/26/2004 5:10:15 PM PDT by Howlin (Bush has claimed two things which Democrats believe they own by right: the presidency & the future)
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To: Sting 11

I agree with your sentiments at the grunt level, and I didn't intend to paint every controller with the same brush.

Like so many other unions, it's these guys who get to run these unions that cause most of the trouble. Of course, with their fat executive salaries and perks, they really don't care if the peons lose their jobs.


30 posted on 10/26/2004 6:30:55 PM PDT by oldbill
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To: cynicom

i'm actually aquainted with an atc who was hired after the 'strike'. he was bragging on how he can retire and get full SS benefits at 55 (i think). Mostly because they are requird to retire then i believe, probalby because as we age our hearing and vision can be effected. OK I can live with that.

What I Find ironic is he's a really really big union supporter, very active in his local union and on the national level. Before being hired he was a firefighter (also union). Now why doesn't he concider himself a scab since he took some other union persons job? hmmm.....inquiring minds wanna know. (perhaps you atc's out there can explain it to me?)

One observation on unions, many young people are in unions, but I can honestly say they really aren't all that pro union, in fact they concider them to be a necessary (since they have no choice in the matter) pain in the rear.


31 posted on 10/26/2004 7:07:19 PM PDT by tickles
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To: tickles
tickles.....

They retire after 20 years. They dont tell you that. Full pension and health benifits. You going to retire after 20 years????? I bet not.

32 posted on 10/26/2004 7:15:30 PM PDT by cynicom (<p)
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To: Sting 11

I'm another air traffic controller (16 years). I sure wish that our NATCA president, John "the bull" Carr would worry about working WITH the administration while representing our interests instead of alienating them. He's got a "big labor" AFL-CIO attitude that really rankles a fair number of controllers that I know. There's more Republicans in the ranks than he would like! I wonder if Mike McNally will run again?


33 posted on 10/26/2004 7:16:28 PM PDT by Bonneville
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To: Se7eN

John Carr has been, and will remain a steadfast opponent to any attempt to privatize the Air Traffic Control System...

I am sure this has put him out of the running for any position on the advisory board...

There are enough free market thinkers in the Bush Administration to quash Carr...


34 posted on 10/26/2004 7:25:51 PM PDT by antaresequity
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To: atomicpossum

That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the ad: Reagan. He dealt with the ATCs.

I have seen a Badnarick ad and the Eagle/Ostrich ad this evening here in GA. The Eagle/Ostrich ad really does look like a Bush/Cheney ad. That's humor.


35 posted on 10/26/2004 7:30:58 PM PDT by eyespysomething (Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality the cost becomes prohibitive.)
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To: oldbill

Kerry is Carter without the peanut farm.


36 posted on 10/26/2004 8:38:54 PM PDT by KingNo155
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To: cynicom

he probably did say that at the time, it's been quite awhile since he stated what he would be getting at retirement.

While I can see getting the retirement pay and benefits,including earlier retirement, it is a high stress job with the responsibility for all those people up in the planes, and people do lose vision and hearing as they age.

But, I do resent the fact that at age 55 they can also collect begin collecting full social security benefits. Sorry but everyone else has to wait, many of these people who retire early are still capable of doing some type of job, ss should in no way have been included in their contract, even if they are 'forced' to retire at 55. it is a completely different area and had nothing to DO with this particular dept. JMO of course.


37 posted on 10/29/2004 5:40:06 AM PDT by tickles
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To: Se7eN
BUSH ADMINISTRATION ERRORS AGAIN IN LEAVING MAC LABOR SEAT COLD (NATCA's New Ad Blasting Bush)

Er, "errs."

38 posted on 10/29/2004 5:42:53 AM PDT by Fatalis (The Libertarian Party is to politics as Esperanto is to linguistics.)
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To: Fatalis

The admin put that in there :( In newby fasion I had left the article name out of the title which put me at risk for duplicate threads.

However, I probably would have said 'error' too. lol..


39 posted on 10/29/2004 6:08:14 AM PDT by Se7eN
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To: Se7eN

The MAC is a management board. The Union has a bargaining agreement with the FAA that dictates to the board what the labor position is on matters. A union rep would only cause confusion.


40 posted on 10/29/2004 6:15:36 AM PDT by RGSpincich
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To: Se7eN
It's in the original article, not your fault or the admin's. Just wretched proofreading by the NATCA.
41 posted on 10/29/2004 8:41:21 AM PDT by Fatalis (The Libertarian Party is to politics as Esperanto is to linguistics.)
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