Posted on 10/26/2004 6:20:03 PM PDT by aculeus
Police chiefs have urged householders not to confront intruders, but to call 999 and lock themselves in safely until help arrives.
Their advice was issued last night after a judge defended the actions of a retired man who shot an intruder who had returned for the third time to break into his isolated country home.
The judge's comments were hailed by victims' groups as the first sign of "common sense" on the rights of householders to defend their property.
However, the police counselled caution - while admitting that the public had little faith in their ability to turn up in time.
The debate surrounding the definition of what constitutes the use of "reasonable force" against intruders was revived by Judge Andrew Hamilton's comments on Monday during the trial of John Rae, a burglar.
Rae, 22, who was jailed for seven years for a string of burglaries and other crimes, was shot in the leg by Kenneth Faulkner, 73, at his home in Ockbrook, Derbyshire.
Mr Faulkner was only told shortly before the trial that he would not be prosecuted over the shooting.
The judge said that he had "sensibly" armed himself with a shotgun and no one could criticise him for what he did. "It is only a pity that charges were considered against him," he added.
Norman Brennan, the director of the Victims of Crime Trust, said the judge had made clear that the law should be on the side of the property-owner not the criminal.
"If the householder needs to protect their home and the burglar sustains injuries, then those injuries are the burglar's fault," he said. "Householders should only be put before the criminal courts in exceptional circumstances."
David Blunkett, the Home Secretary, said he was "open to suggestions" about any changes in the law. However, he did not consider that recent incidents - which include the alleged murder in London of a 45-year-old teacher by a burglar - justified any.
The police said that while householders could use "reasonable force" when confronted by a burglar, their advice was not to intervene.
The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) said in a statement: "You can use force, but it has to be reasonable. Police are restrained by that as well.
"Whether the line is crossed is a decision for the courts to make. We don't believe in vigilantism or excess violence."
Chief Supt Ian Johnston, vice-president of the Superintendents Association of England and Wales, said: "The advice should be, first of all, take commonsense crime prevention steps around your property.
"But if you are broken into - and I know most people will look at this and say 'It's very good for him to say that in the cold light of day' - really and truly, you should ring the police. You should not approach the intruder."
He added: "If the intruder steals some of your property, that's far better than someone getting killed. Ring police and secure yourself and your family, but stress that there is a person on the premises. That really is the only advice we would give."
The advice comes at a time when public confidence in the police has been severely shaken by recent incidents in which officers failed to take immediate action when called out to deal with gunmen.
Senior officers readily concede that the public is sceptical about the speed of police responses and accept that their advice is of little comfort to residents - especially those in the countryside - who hear disturbing noises in their homes during the night.
However, police maintain that if householders make clear that an intruder is on the premises they will respond quickly.
Mr Johnston said: "People will also say - and I have some sympathy for their thoughts - 'What would he do at 2am or 3am when he hears noises downstairs?' I understand that, but we must give that very firm advice - do not approach the intruder."
He added that police were "definitely not" advising people to have weapons in their homes. "We would not tell the public to arm themselves with any weapon, legal or illegal. Burglars could be on drink or drugs and that's why we give the advice we do."
Mr Johnston said the legal situation in Britain was different from that in America. "If someone dared to enter someone's property in the States they would be within their constitutional rights to protect their property. And I dare say people in this country would say, 'What happened to an Englishman's castle?'
"The police are reflecting the law, but within that we can understand when people decide to have a go and protect their property and families. But our advice to them is please don't."
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The socialists have turned British justice on its head. The criominals rule, while the homeowners live in terror.
Run away! Run away !
NO
NEVER tackle a burglar....just shoot the SOB!
The British police are right. I would never tackle a burglar -- I would take aim and shoot him after he theatened my life. Even here in Massghanistan I am allowed to waste the maggot at that point.
Sounds like Kenneth Faulkner had the charges against him dropped. Thank goodness if true.
Do The SNiVeL:
Step 1: "S" is for Safe - Assume a safe, fetal position, preferably under a table or other cover.
Step 2: "N" & "V" are for Non-Violent - Remember, remain non-violent. Moves that could be interpreted as 'self-defense' may only serve to further provoke your assailant. Offer no resistance.
Step 3: "L" is for Limp - Remain limp while begging and groveling for your life!!! This is no time for pride or courage, so cry like a girl, you fool!!! This will always serve you better than a firearm, which would only inject more violence into the situation. Finally, stay limp until your assailant has finished beating you like a rented mule. He will eventually tire from pummeling you mercilessly and choose to move on to a more entertaining endeavor, such as beating your spouse and/or children.
http://www.handguncontrolinc.org/snivel.htm
Madness! Madness has fallen over Britain.
Good for Mr Faulkner----I'd shoot him too.
For everyone who's worried about outsourcing, you can always get a safe and profitable job as a burglar in England.
Sounds like the same advice that was consistently given to airplane passengers about confronting hijackers before 9-11. This kind of advice is a big reason why those passengers died.
Morons, the lot of 'em. Except for Judge Andrew Hamilton.
Anybody breaking into my home is risking his life. Period.
Well, that's socialist government for you. The Leftists always believe in giving the criminals far more rights than the law-abiding. And those idiot police chiefs are schmucks. Anyone who tells you to not resist evil is in league with evil. Period.
But then he [Richard Dawkins, part-time biologist, full-time anti-American crank] goes on: "Now that all other justifications for the war are known to be lies, the warmongers are thrown back on one, endlessly repeated: the world is a better place without Saddam. No doubt it is. But that's the Tony Martin school of foreign policy."
At this point, the Guardian's editors intervene with an explanatory parenthesis: "[Martin was a householder who shot dead a burglar who had broken into his house in 1999]." And then Dawkins continues: "It's not how civilised countries, who follow the rule of law, behave. The world would be a better place without George Bush, but that doesn't justify an assassination attempt."
violet crime
I knew the Euros were a bunch of wienies but hitting each other with flowers is just sissyish.
Says who? I think it is far better that *every* burglar be shot right between the eyes.
Or maybe we just send the burglar to share a home with this moron?
In England these days, you can have crime in any color you want.
Back in the 80's I had a gunsmith cut down a Rem 870 folding stock to min legal.
I have never had to use it indoors - loza fun outdoors - once ya get the hang of it you can pump and fire at a profound rate...
Wear earplugs.
If someone breaks into my house, I think I'm entitled to assume that the intruder intends to harm me. Thus, I'm entitled to defend myself, without asking the intruder if he's only interested in my property.
Twice for good measure...
If someone breaks into my house...
Depends what state you live in - or how much $$$ you have to defend yourself.
If you go for it - go for it! - better to have the DA decide than defend a civil action for "hurting" someone.
I hear the noise, someone jimmying the door or just breaking it down.
Through bleary eyes, I awaken. Grab the shotgun, quickly shove 2 rounds in it.
I yell "I got a gun, get out of my house or die"
No response
I see the walking dead man, pull the trigger twice and watch him blow into 3-4 pieces.
End of story
Hollow point, high brass, sabot slugs = major limbs or torso sections blown off. One shot, one kill, two shots hamburger.
"after he theatened my life"
Nope, not me. Just be found on the premises AT ANY TIME DAY OR NIGHT without reason, and you're outta here. Inside the house? No questions asked. Outside - especially at night? .308 holes make invisible souls. (Note the plural use of the word hole.)
Just had a 400 pound black bear in my carport two nights ago. Took some time to drag him off, but he won't be back, either.
United Kingdom should be put on the State Department's "watch list" because it's downright unsafe for Americans to visit a place where you are advised to not defend yourself against criminal elements.
How the hell can anyone know what a criminal is capable of when breaking into a home. The only thought that goes through my mind is he wants to harm me or my family to get what he desires. For this he deserves my most vigilant defense up to and including lethal force. I certainly hope this belief never changes in the USA.
Alcohol or drugs makes burglars immune to bullets?
I never knew that. Learn something new every day.
A father shot his dtr in a similar story - what? a year or so ago -
See your target - or take courses if you are going to play at this level.
I have a trained dog as well as the 870.
Dog wakes me - it aint the kids sneakin' about.
Well, okay, alright... After much thought since my opposition to legalizing private ownership of nukes, etc., I'll cave in, a little.
I advocate for legalizing private ownership of 105mm shotguns for home defense.
Two to the chest and one to the head....guaranteed to make them dead.
No one has keys to my house except me and my wife. There was a rash of break-ins in houses nearby for about 8 weeks 3 years ago(perp was caught by a gun wielding home owner waiting for it). I kept the rounds in the gun. I've since unloaded.
I detect a break-in while I'm home and the perp comes in, he dies. End of story. I don't shoot to wound. You break into my home, you intend harm on me and my wife. You will DIE. Not saying you personally would do it, just saying, I will kill without remorse anyone entering my home.
Wave your hankie and scoff!
Worthless stinking sheeple brits! And they want to interfere in OUR elections! Spirit of 1776!
I use "cut" #8 bird from my Ithaca 12ga pump.
same idea, but no overpenetration worry.
.....and the "civilised countries" were just too "civilised"
to do anything but sit back and watch until it took the most
devastating war in recorded history to defeat Hitler and his
allies in Japan.
Steyn.....another kool-aid swilling moron.
Just think, Kang, a few more countries fall for this Earthling liberal 'gun control,' and we begin our plan for world domination by slingshot! Of course, we'll need to watch out for boards with nails in them!
This is the same police officers giving this advice while two of them where raping a woman!
Except from
http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,2763,1336690,00.html
A young mother wept in the witness box yesterday as she described how two policemen subjected her to a horrific rape ordeal when they were supposed to be helping her after an assault.
Mr Onslow said the story only came to light when the two policemen boasted to colleagues about "spit roasting" the mother-of-three - each having her perform oral sex on them while the other penetrated her.
I am sure that British women feel so much safer that the police are on the scene.
Operation eternal vigile. We must alway be watchful, because Kerry and his band of theives will just as rapidly take your defense as they will tax you into submission.
You really need to remember to be threatened and to fear for your life. Those are key parts of the law in most states. If the individual is inside your home -- particularly at night -- make certain you empty the weapon into him -- I recommend four to the chest and then two to the head just in case the perp is wearing body armor. I do not recommend shooting the perp outside because -- if the perp is fleeing -- you may be guilty of first degree manslaughter or second degree murder -- as sKerry was with the VC with the malfunctioning rocket launcher.
"You should not approach the intruder"
Of course not. Much better to take up a defensive position with a good field of fire, and wait for the poor bastard to enter your line of sight.
Oh yes by all means you should not defend your family.
The guy is plain nuts. I don't mean slightly off but out of his skull, off his rocker, the sand has shifted in his load, there are bats in his belfry and his happy meal lacks more then a few fries.
Anyone who comes near my family with hostile intent is risking death. My first job is to protect them.
Here in the States I would call the police after if I couldn't before. I would hold him if possible or wound. Because I have the right to defend myself I would have many options to choose from.
In the UK I do believe I would simply go out and buy a new rose bush for the garden the next day. They would have left me no other option.
they forgot step 3:
"D" is for die--because if you follow the above, you a** is grass.
Can you believe these GC idiots?
You know something. 95% of the time when I hear noises in the house or outside it turns out to be something mundane and ordinary. I ussually grab my Glock and my dog and go investigate. I'd feel awfully stupid cowering in my bedroom and waiting for the police to tell me that the cat knocked something over or that a raccoon was trying to open our garbage can.
Altogether excellent advice!
""You should not approach the intruder"
Of course not. Much better to take up a defensive position with a good field of fire, and wait for the poor bastard to enter your line of sight."
Reasonable force is whatever force is necessary to make them leave.
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