Skip to comments.Kerry gets less than honorable discharge
Posted on 10/29/2004 7:30:46 PM PDT by 2thfxr
Interview with Troy Jenkins
I recently had the pleasure to discuss the newly found Vietnam documents with Chief Petty Officer Troy Jenkins
A bump from today- I ask indulgence for the duplicate
come on pajama people do you stuff!!!!
I saw this on this board earlier today but it disapeared. I assumed it was disproved.
It's "Other Than Honorable," not "Less Than Honorable." We need to be very careful about this as I believe it will explode over the weekend.
It was removed from the Swift Vets site, but not from inthebullpen.com. It is a valid story. CPO Jenkins requested that it be removed from the swiftvets.com site as it did not represent their offical position.
As of yet, anyway.
It's getting a little late in the game for this. I think those putting forth these charges need to put up or shut up.
I am really confused, this thread keeps coming and going.
I keep getting my hopes up. I really, really, want something, anything to come out before the election to show the sheeple that want to vote for Kerry what kind of "man" they think should be the CIC of the best military in the world.
> I assumed it was disproved.
Nope. Just premature.
It may yet get some weight behind it.
Or, like the real story of Purple Heart #2, it may not
In any case, Kerry's got his hands full having to deal
with the bin Laden endorsement. I hear he's going to
demand that no TV news outlets run the tape or print
the script, because al Qaeda is an unregistered 527
group, even if they are for Kerry.
It's not too late until you quit.
everyone is busy trying to find a person or documents to come forth,,,,,,but
HELLO!!!!: IMO, KERRY IS ON TAPE DISCUSSING IT HERE, IN AN INTERVIEW(IMO): http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1262091/posts
around the 2 to 4 minute mark. she also calls him a former LT....as if he was not in reserves or lost rank.!!!
Try this on for size---- GW = continued voluntary military. JF'nK = draft! Soccer moms, pick one....
I deal with this subject in my government job daily. When a DD214 says a discharge was under conditions "Other than Honorable" it is synonymous with dishonorable. Just a nicer way of saying it.
ASK KERRY TO SIGN FORM 180 IS RIGHT
Exactly, you can't polish a turd. Why can't we come out and say it was dishonorable? I mean he should feel lucky for it to being limited to such a label, being he commited treason.
Ask all you want. Kerry will never sign a 180, and the MSM has let him run out the clock on this. Unless NavyChief can get the people he knows with the facts to go on record, this will not have any effect on the election.
can someone remind me, what was with the DNC speech of Clinton "specially SEND ME"....I need a refresher here! I want more ... I am a political news junkie.... withdrawals....lol... ;o)
Spook chief scores.
It was not a dishonorable discharge, but it might as well have been. There is a category of "Undesirable Discharge."
If you come out and say he received a dishorable discharge when it could have been a general discharge under honorable conditions, then you just muddy the waters and give the dems a chance to say you are wrong. Check the specs on the types of discharges, and god help us, get it right.
It is correct.
The categories: Honorable, General, Other Than Honorable, Bad Conduct, Dishonorable.
Basically, anything less than Honorable is not good....
What you need to focus on is WHY?
Until I see proof positive (which I think will never come) this story is bunk and no one does any of us any service by continuing to fling it around.
If the unthinkable should happen and we have President #44 sworn in January 2005, we will have four years to find out what is in those 100 pages.
Of course I'm darn interested in what is in the file even if he does have to return to his do-nothing Senate job.
You'd think if Drudge would keep an above the fold headline reminding people that kerry is hiding something it could become its own story.
I have a question regarding something that has always struck me odd...
Why did the DoD come out on September 16 and SAY they had more than 100 pages of info? I read in another thread someone saying it was amazing to think that NO ONE had a look-see in that file. Perhaps someone DID take a peek and maybe that was a message no one in MSM picked up.
Well, no, an Other-than-Honorable Discharge (OTH) is not the same thing, legally, as a Dishonorable Discharge (DD).
There is also a Bad Conduct Discharge (BCD) which, again, is a different thing than an OTH or a DD. In order, from bad to worst, it's OTH, BCD, DD.
Important legal effects (concerning veterans' benefits, rights to re-employment with the federal government, federal criminal record, etc.) attach to the different discharges, and the process of getting a BCD or DD is different from an OTH. An OTH can be awarded administratively, but a BCD or DD requires a court-martial return.
I doubt Kerry was ever court-martialled, so if he did get a less-than-honorable discharge for bad acts, it would probably be an OTH.
Now, perhaps these fine distinctions of military justice and procedure don't matter much to civilian employers: anything less than honorable is bad. And indeed, military review boards processing people for discharge for relatively minor infractions, such as popping positive for marijuana on a drug screening for low-ranking guys in a non-critical or sensitive billet, do take into consideration the extent to which awarding an OTH will screw a young sailor or soldier for life. Clearly this is a discretionary call of the unit's Commanding Officer, subject to review by superiors.
'Sorry. You are not supposed to know the facts. Just get in that booth and pull the lever for me a couple of times.'
(Oops! I thought you were a democrat. ;> )
Oh come on!
This is not nearly as series as missing a Flight Physical!
(I have actually missed a few of those, worse than that I have had my fight status suspended!)
You people need to get a Grip on Reality, Kerry is not an ordinary person, therefore things that apply to ordinary folk, does not apply to him. Because he is SPECIAL.
(I Swear if the idiot from Houston gets offended because I didn't say sarcasm somewhere I will...)
Kerry has NEVER RELEASED his records. He has NEVER signed Form 180.
There is MUCH TO HIDE.
Drudge is a pain. The Chief has the doc's to show clearly that Kerry worked with the North Vietnamese against the US. It's not questionable.
I'm still confused on the technical merits of this. Can Benedict Arnold run for President? It seems like the 14th Amendment Section 3 clearly states that it is not possible. Is it not in the publics best interest to force the release of these documents? The publics interest far outways the interest of John Kerry, especially since he is seeking the highest Office in the US. With thousand of lawyers at the RNCs disposal, why has this not been sucessfully challanged? How can a man run for the Office of the President when there may be even the slightest chance of duplicity with the enemy? How can a man run for the Office of the Presidency if there is even the slightest chance he conspired with the enemy and was served a dishonorable, less than honorable, or even other than honorable discharge? How can a man run for the Commander in Chief when he couldn't even serves as a line Officer in the Mess hall? Are there any constitutional FReepers out there that can answer these questions? I want to know how Benedict Arnold can run for President... If this is possible, we have a serious loophole in our constitution that needs some immediate fixing. Anyone running for the Office of the President should have an exhaustive criminal background check, including both civil and military checks. Are not these things more important than making sure a person is 35 years old or natural born?
His record was scrubbed in either 1976 or 1978. He also has THREE wersions of his Silver Star citation, which is UNHEARD OF. He had all his awards RE-ISSUED on June 4, 1985. The only way you get them re-issued is to have them taken away.
I challenge the notion that they were scrubbed. If they're clean then why not the release with Form 180? If scrubbed then there is nothing to hid. I don't agree and the logic does not stand on water. There is something there that is damming and he knows it...
They were scrubbed, in that he has the discharge certificate- but check the date in it!
It should have come in 1972, but it did not come until 1978.
It was an Other than Honorable Discharge. The story may come out Monday, unless the proof is unwilling to come forward.
Agreed, what will people think of such last minute stories?
I think this will have no legs.
Meeting with and negotiating FOR the enemy at a time of war while still and officer in the Navy. VERY BAD!
Good point D&T. Did the amnesty program change the OERs as well as the type of Discharge? Those records are being held because truth is not a friend to John F Kerry. We have a right to know that far exceeds his right to privacy. I have the right to know as a US Citizen whether or not a man running for the Presidency is qualified for the job.
Chief has been researching this for some time. The word has just come down very recently. The timing is real- it's the UN. We'd love to have had ti sooner.
He can be pardoned. YOu might not put him in jail. He still did it, but he ought not be the darned President.
This would explain the reissuance of an honorable discharge years later when Kerry became a Senator, but it would not explain the reissuance of the medals.
I don't recall that an OTH strips a person of his medals.
On the other hand, if Kerry's medals were not typed onto his DD-214 at the time of his OTH, perhaps as a calculated administrative slap at him by the folks preparing it (what was he going to do about it? Come back onto active duty and subject himself to the military again in order to try and correct his discharge certificate? Expose himself to charges of perjury or consorting with the enemy as the military retaliated?
Of course I have absolutely no information at all about Kerry's record, but when I think of a hypothetical that would have him getting an OTH converted to an Honorable Discharge AND getting medals reinstated which should not have been removed in an OTH, I expect that the original medals removal was probably the result of an abuse of process by his chain of command deleting the medals from his discharge papers as a slap at him. It happens.
An AR 635-212, I think.
As a note only a dishonourable discharge is considered a felony conviction in most states.
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