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Kerry gets less than honorable discharge
http://www.inthebullpen.com/ ^ | 10-29-04 | inthebullpen.com

Posted on 10/29/2004 7:30:46 PM PDT by 2thfxr

Interview with Troy Jenkins

I recently had the pleasure to discuss the newly found Vietnam documents with Chief Petty Officer Troy Jenkins


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: disclosure; election; kerry; lies; militaryrecord; polticis
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CPO Jenkins discusses finding the documents that show John Kerry worked in concert with the North Vietnam Communnists against the United States during the Vietnam War.

A bump from today- I ask indulgence for the duplicate

1 posted on 10/29/2004 7:30:47 PM PDT by 2thfxr
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To: 2thfxr

come on pajama people do you stuff!!!!


2 posted on 10/29/2004 7:32:19 PM PDT by VastRWCon
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To: 2thfxr

I saw this on this board earlier today but it disapeared. I assumed it was disproved.


3 posted on 10/29/2004 7:32:32 PM PDT by tirednvirginia
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To: 2thfxr

It's "Other Than Honorable," not "Less Than Honorable." We need to be very careful about this as I believe it will explode over the weekend.


4 posted on 10/29/2004 7:34:02 PM PDT by brewcrew
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To: tirednvirginia

It was removed from the Swift Vets site, but not from inthebullpen.com. It is a valid story. CPO Jenkins requested that it be removed from the swiftvets.com site as it did not represent their offical position.

As of yet, anyway.


5 posted on 10/29/2004 7:34:44 PM PDT by 2thfxr ( letter I sent to Nightline)
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To: 2thfxr

It's getting a little late in the game for this. I think those putting forth these charges need to put up or shut up.


6 posted on 10/29/2004 7:38:41 PM PDT by ClintonBeGone (Take the first step in the war on terror - defeat John Kerry)
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To: 2thfxr

I am really confused, this thread keeps coming and going.

I keep getting my hopes up. I really, really, want something, anything to come out before the election to show the sheeple that want to vote for Kerry what kind of "man" they think should be the CIC of the best military in the world.


7 posted on 10/29/2004 7:39:49 PM PDT by Txsleuth
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To: tirednvirginia

> I assumed it was disproved.

Nope. Just premature.

It may yet get some weight behind it.

Or, like the real story of Purple Heart #2, it may not
resurface.

In any case, Kerry's got his hands full having to deal
with the bin Laden endorsement. I hear he's going to
demand that no TV news outlets run the tape or print
the script, because al Qaeda is an unregistered 527
group, even if they are for Kerry.


8 posted on 10/29/2004 7:41:15 PM PDT by Boundless (bin Laden is running an IQ test next Tuesday. Score high on it.)
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To: Txsleuth

It's here.

It's real.

It's not too late until you quit.


9 posted on 10/29/2004 7:41:43 PM PDT by 2thfxr ( letter I sent to Nightline)
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To: All

everyone is busy trying to find a person or documents to come forth,,,,,,but

HELLO!!!!: IMO, KERRY IS ON TAPE DISCUSSING IT HERE, IN AN INTERVIEW(IMO): http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1262091/posts

around the 2 to 4 minute mark. she also calls him a former LT....as if he was not in reserves or lost rank.!!!


10 posted on 10/29/2004 7:43:03 PM PDT by wvromania
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To: Txsleuth
I keep getting my hopes up. I really, really, want something, anything to come out before the election to show the sheeple that want to vote for Kerry what kind of "man" they think should be the CIC of the best military in the world.

Try this on for size---- GW = continued voluntary military. JF'nK = draft! Soccer moms, pick one....

11 posted on 10/29/2004 7:45:28 PM PDT by eeriegeno
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To: brewcrew

I deal with this subject in my government job daily. When a DD214 says a discharge was under conditions "Other than Honorable" it is synonymous with dishonorable. Just a nicer way of saying it.


12 posted on 10/29/2004 7:45:55 PM PDT by TonyM (E)
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: Howlin

Ping


14 posted on 10/29/2004 7:46:55 PM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: Made in USA

ASK KERRY TO SIGN FORM 180 IS RIGHT


15 posted on 10/29/2004 7:47:35 PM PDT by 2thfxr ( letter I sent to Nightline)
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To: TonyM

Exactly, you can't polish a turd. Why can't we come out and say it was dishonorable? I mean he should feel lucky for it to being limited to such a label, being he commited treason.


16 posted on 10/29/2004 7:48:01 PM PDT by xuberalles
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To: 2thfxr

Ask all you want. Kerry will never sign a 180, and the MSM has let him run out the clock on this. Unless NavyChief can get the people he knows with the facts to go on record, this will not have any effect on the election.


17 posted on 10/29/2004 7:50:23 PM PDT by rocklobster11
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To: 2thfxr

can someone remind me, what was with the DNC speech of Clinton "specially SEND ME"....I need a refresher here! I want more ... I am a political news junkie.... withdrawals....lol... ;o)


18 posted on 10/29/2004 7:50:32 PM PDT by runningbear (Lurkers beware, Freeping is public opinions based on facts, theories, and news online.......)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Spook chief scores.


19 posted on 10/29/2004 7:50:35 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but have recently come to my senses.)
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To: Made in USA
There is no freakin way on earth Kerry is going to sign the 180, as he knows the truth...and he's got to keep it buried at all costs.

The only hope is someone in the bureaucracy (with cajones) will leak the papers. Hope it happens soon. Monday will be fine.
20 posted on 10/29/2004 7:51:26 PM PDT by Death and Taxes (Bush '04)
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To: xuberalles

It was not a dishonorable discharge, but it might as well have been. There is a category of "Undesirable Discharge."


21 posted on 10/29/2004 7:52:04 PM PDT by 2thfxr ( letter I sent to Nightline)
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To: xuberalles

If you come out and say he received a dishorable discharge when it could have been a general discharge under honorable conditions, then you just muddy the waters and give the dems a chance to say you are wrong. Check the specs on the types of discharges, and god help us, get it right.


22 posted on 10/29/2004 7:53:00 PM PDT by ampat
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To: ampat

It is correct.


23 posted on 10/29/2004 7:53:57 PM PDT by 2thfxr ( letter I sent to Nightline)
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To: 2thfxr

The categories: Honorable, General, Other Than Honorable, Bad Conduct, Dishonorable.

Basically, anything less than Honorable is not good....


24 posted on 10/29/2004 7:55:16 PM PDT by Death and Taxes (Bush '04)
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To: Death and Taxes

What you need to focus on is WHY?


25 posted on 10/29/2004 7:58:09 PM PDT by 2thfxr ( letter I sent to Nightline)
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To: 2thfxr

Until I see proof positive (which I think will never come) this story is bunk and no one does any of us any service by continuing to fling it around.


26 posted on 10/29/2004 7:59:23 PM PDT by kaferhaus
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To: BIGLOOK

If the unthinkable should happen and we have President #44 sworn in January 2005, we will have four years to find out what is in those 100 pages.

Of course I'm darn interested in what is in the file even if he does have to return to his do-nothing Senate job.

You'd think if Drudge would keep an above the fold headline reminding people that kerry is hiding something it could become its own story.

I have a question regarding something that has always struck me odd...

Why did the DoD come out on September 16 and SAY they had more than 100 pages of info? I read in another thread someone saying it was amazing to think that NO ONE had a look-see in that file. Perhaps someone DID take a peek and maybe that was a message no one in MSM picked up.


27 posted on 10/29/2004 8:00:11 PM PDT by JstABrdPstr
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To: TonyM

Well, no, an Other-than-Honorable Discharge (OTH) is not the same thing, legally, as a Dishonorable Discharge (DD).
There is also a Bad Conduct Discharge (BCD) which, again, is a different thing than an OTH or a DD. In order, from bad to worst, it's OTH, BCD, DD.

Important legal effects (concerning veterans' benefits, rights to re-employment with the federal government, federal criminal record, etc.) attach to the different discharges, and the process of getting a BCD or DD is different from an OTH. An OTH can be awarded administratively, but a BCD or DD requires a court-martial return.

I doubt Kerry was ever court-martialled, so if he did get a less-than-honorable discharge for bad acts, it would probably be an OTH.

Now, perhaps these fine distinctions of military justice and procedure don't matter much to civilian employers: anything less than honorable is bad. And indeed, military review boards processing people for discharge for relatively minor infractions, such as popping positive for marijuana on a drug screening for low-ranking guys in a non-critical or sensitive billet, do take into consideration the extent to which awarding an OTH will screw a young sailor or soldier for life. Clearly this is a discretionary call of the unit's Commanding Officer, subject to review by superiors.


28 posted on 10/29/2004 8:01:29 PM PDT by Vicomte13 (Auta i Lome!)
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To: Made in USA
"SIGN FORM 180, MR KERRY AND WE WILL ALL KNOW THE FACTS."

'Sorry. You are not supposed to know the facts. Just get in that booth and pull the lever for me a couple of times.'

(Oops! I thought you were a democrat. ;> )

29 posted on 10/29/2004 8:02:04 PM PDT by Eastbound ("Neither a Scrooge nor a Patsy Be")
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To: 2thfxr

Oh come on!
This is not nearly as series as missing a Flight Physical!

(I have actually missed a few of those, worse than that I have had my fight status suspended!)

You people need to get a Grip on Reality, Kerry is not an ordinary person, therefore things that apply to ordinary folk, does not apply to him. Because he is SPECIAL.

(I Swear if the idiot from Houston gets offended because I didn't say sarcasm somewhere I will...)


30 posted on 10/29/2004 8:02:59 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (It is UNAmerican to put the UN before America)
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To: JstABrdPstr

Kerry has NEVER RELEASED his records. He has NEVER signed Form 180.

There is MUCH TO HIDE.

Drudge is a pain. The Chief has the doc's to show clearly that Kerry worked with the North Vietnamese against the US. It's not questionable.


31 posted on 10/29/2004 8:03:39 PM PDT by 2thfxr ( letter I sent to Nightline)
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To: 2thfxr

ping---c'mon already


32 posted on 10/29/2004 8:03:58 PM PDT by wildcatf4f3 (out of the sun)
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To: 2thfxr

I'm still confused on the technical merits of this. Can Benedict Arnold run for President? It seems like the 14th Amendment Section 3 clearly states that it is not possible. Is it not in the publics best interest to force the release of these documents? The publics interest far outways the interest of John Kerry, especially since he is seeking the highest Office in the US. With thousand of lawyers at the RNCs disposal, why has this not been sucessfully challanged? How can a man run for the Office of the President when there may be even the slightest chance of duplicity with the enemy? How can a man run for the Office of the Presidency if there is even the slightest chance he conspired with the enemy and was served a dishonorable, less than honorable, or even other than honorable discharge? How can a man run for the Commander in Chief when he couldn't even serves as a line Officer in the Mess hall? Are there any constitutional FReepers out there that can answer these questions? I want to know how Benedict Arnold can run for President... If this is possible, we have a serious loophole in our constitution that needs some immediate fixing. Anyone running for the Office of the President should have an exhaustive criminal background check, including both civil and military checks. Are not these things more important than making sure a person is 35 years old or natural born?


33 posted on 10/29/2004 8:04:23 PM PDT by AMHN
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To: 2thfxr
We don't need to focus on why, Kerry does. If the discharge was anything other than a straight-up "Honorable"...then Kerry has some serious 'splainin to do.

Of course, we may be saying the same thing...
34 posted on 10/29/2004 8:05:40 PM PDT by Death and Taxes (Bush '04)
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To: AMHN

His record was scrubbed in either 1976 or 1978. He also has THREE wersions of his Silver Star citation, which is UNHEARD OF. He had all his awards RE-ISSUED on June 4, 1985. The only way you get them re-issued is to have them taken away.


35 posted on 10/29/2004 8:06:56 PM PDT by 2thfxr ( letter I sent to Nightline)
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To: 2thfxr

I challenge the notion that they were scrubbed. If they're clean then why not the release with Form 180? If scrubbed then there is nothing to hid. I don't agree and the logic does not stand on water. There is something there that is damming and he knows it...


36 posted on 10/29/2004 8:08:59 PM PDT by AMHN
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To: 2thfxr
This would have been great a month ago, but we have too much class to use it now.

Anyone with at least half a brain know that Kerry is a phony.
The brainless are going to vote for him no matter what he
did, or is.
37 posted on 10/29/2004 8:14:40 PM PDT by AlexW
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To: 2thfxr

They were scrubbed, in that he has the discharge certificate- but check the date in it!

It should have come in 1972, but it did not come until 1978.


38 posted on 10/29/2004 8:14:49 PM PDT by 2thfxr ( letter I sent to Nightline)
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To: Vicomte13

It was an Other than Honorable Discharge. The story may come out Monday, unless the proof is unwilling to come forward.


39 posted on 10/29/2004 8:15:20 PM PDT by rocklobster11
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To: AMHN
I concur. In addition to the type of discharge, there are certainly OERs/OPRs (annual officer reports) written by his immediate commanders that most likely are not, shall we say, entirely flattering. Of course, this is speculation until his records are released....which will never happen.
40 posted on 10/29/2004 8:15:40 PM PDT by Death and Taxes (Bush '04)
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To: Death and Taxes

Agreed, what will people think of such last minute stories?

I think this will have no legs.


41 posted on 10/29/2004 8:18:43 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: 2thfxr
What you need to focus on is WHY

Meeting with and negotiating FOR the enemy at a time of war while still and officer in the Navy. VERY BAD!

42 posted on 10/29/2004 8:20:41 PM PDT by elizabetty
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To: Death and Taxes

Good point D&T. Did the amnesty program change the OERs as well as the type of Discharge? Those records are being held because truth is not a friend to John F Kerry. We have a right to know that far exceeds his right to privacy. I have the right to know as a US Citizen whether or not a man running for the Presidency is qualified for the job.


43 posted on 10/29/2004 8:20:52 PM PDT by AMHN
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To: A CA Guy

Chief has been researching this for some time. The word has just come down very recently. The timing is real- it's the UN. We'd love to have had ti sooner.


44 posted on 10/29/2004 8:21:19 PM PDT by 2thfxr ( letter I sent to Nightline)
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To: AMHN
I'm still confused on the technical merits of this. Can Benedict Arnold run for President?

Apparently yo can if BILL CLINTON PARDONS you on his last day in office


45 posted on 10/29/2004 8:22:50 PM PDT by elizabetty
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To: elizabetty

He can be pardoned. YOu might not put him in jail. He still did it, but he ought not be the darned President.


46 posted on 10/29/2004 8:23:55 PM PDT by 2thfxr ( letter I sent to Nightline)
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To: rocklobster11

This would explain the reissuance of an honorable discharge years later when Kerry became a Senator, but it would not explain the reissuance of the medals.

I don't recall that an OTH strips a person of his medals.

On the other hand, if Kerry's medals were not typed onto his DD-214 at the time of his OTH, perhaps as a calculated administrative slap at him by the folks preparing it (what was he going to do about it? Come back onto active duty and subject himself to the military again in order to try and correct his discharge certificate? Expose himself to charges of perjury or consorting with the enemy as the military retaliated?
Of course I have absolutely no information at all about Kerry's record, but when I think of a hypothetical that would have him getting an OTH converted to an Honorable Discharge AND getting medals reinstated which should not have been removed in an OTH, I expect that the original medals removal was probably the result of an abuse of process by his chain of command deleting the medals from his discharge papers as a slap at him. It happens.


47 posted on 10/29/2004 8:25:22 PM PDT by Vicomte13 (Auta i Lome!)
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To: TonyM

An AR 635-212, I think.


48 posted on 10/29/2004 8:25:23 PM PDT by knarf (A place where anyone can learn anything ... especially that which promotes clear thinking.)
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To: Vicomte13

As a note only a dishonourable discharge is considered a felony conviction in most states.


49 posted on 10/29/2004 8:25:50 PM PDT by ColdSteelTalon
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To: 2thfxr
I agree but I think a Presidential Pardon forgives you of all your sins and wipes the slate clean. That is why it should be used by HONORABLE men, Not people like Clinton. He Pardoned almost 200 criminals secretly his last days as President.
50 posted on 10/29/2004 8:26:19 PM PDT by elizabetty
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