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More on Kerry's Questionable discharge
Swift Boats ^ | Capt Jack

Posted on 10/31/2004 6:49:30 PM PST by RogerRabbit

I have been working with two retired Navy Captain Judge Advocate General Corps [attorneys for my non-military friends & colleagues] who have put exhaustive research into the circumstances surrounding Kerry's separation from the Naval Reserve after it was discovered that he was meeting with senior officials of an enemy government in time of war while he was still a naval officer. These two guys, Don Nelson and Mark Sullivan, have both put many MANY hundreds of hours of research into this effort and have produced the attached 4 page document of FACTS that all point towards an Other Than Honorable Discharge for Kerry--------- what makes it all the more credible is that both CAPT's Sullivan and Nelson were in active service when all this was going on and Sullivan was serving in a Pentagon action office that was taking action on these matters, including his being present to disgustingly watch the Carter Administration actions to give deserters and other traitors who had abandoned their units in time of war Honorable Discharges for their dishonorable service.

I've shared this information with everyone that I know in the news media, but if you have some contacts that might want to see it, feel free to forward the attachment on to them. While all this could be resolved with Kerry signing a standard form 180 to release ALL OF HIS MILITARY RECORDS, it's pretty obvious at this point that it's not going to happen------- and it is my concern that if Kerry is elected and the facts about this covered up discharge status are ever learned, the reaction of many in our nation will be much larger and more repulsive than the Jimmy Carter "malaise in America" disgust that most still attach to that administration.

Let us hope that all this will all be considered a moot point on Wednesday, but no matter what happens, I thought you would like to know about all the facts and details in the following 4 page document. And for my fellow Vietnam Vets, I know it will never be a moot point with us.

With all good wishes,

Rear Admiral [Ret.] Jim Carey

Veterans' groups and especially former POWs are highly skeptical that Senator John Kerry has posted a part of his naval service records which indicates that he received an honorable discharge but he continues to refuse to execute the release form that would allow public review of over 100 pages of other records. To these Vietnam Veterans, it is simply inconceivable that Kerry could have received the same discharge that they did after his 1970 – 1971 grandstanding as a lead propagandist against his fellow Americans serving in combat in a "shooting war. It is a basic rule of debate and of litigation (Federal Rules of Evidence, Rule 107) that, that when a party relies on a part of a document as Kerry has done with his service record, fairness and the pursuit of the truth dictates that he produce all of the document (or, in this case, at least the non-medical performance-related documents.) Similarly, when a party in an argument or in litigation conceals or holds back something that he could readily produce for inspection, the inference is an adverse one, namely: that the concealed matter would, if produced, be contrary to that party's interests.

These adverse inferences come squarely to mind in the case of the Kerry campaign naval service records since the key document, Senator Kerry's honorable discharge, is dated 1978 in the midst of the wholesale correction of military and protestor-related records that occurred at the outset of the Carter Administration. On the very first day following Jimmy Carter's inauguration, he issued the first of a series of amnesties and pardons that initially extended to draft evaders who did not serve and ultimately extended even to service members if their conduct had been the topic of certain counter-intelligence surveillance.

The records posted by Senator Kerry reflect that he enlisted in the Naval Reserve as an officer candidate on February 18, 1966. He was a reservist on inactive duty until August 20, 1966, when he began Officer Candidate School. Kerry was commissioned as an Ensign, the entry level for naval officers on December 15, 1966, and remained on active duty for three (3) years and eighteen (1Cool days until January 3, 1970. Under the "Universal Military Training & Service Act;" 10 U.S. Code § 651(a), and under his enlistment contract, Kerry was obligated to serve a total of for six (6) years, including both active and reserve time. In keeping with this statute, at the conclusion of his three (3) years of active duty, Kerry was not issued a Discharge Certificate but was transferred to the Naval Reserve. Having served in Vietnam, Kerry was permitted, but was not required to drill.

Lieutenant Kerry did not drill, and was placed in the "Standby Reserve Active (USNR – S1)," also known as the "Individual Ready Reserve." As a matter of law, contractual commitment and long-standing custom, Kerry was not just like civilian activist, Jane Fonda and other war protestors. He was still a naval officer (with a Top Secret security clearance) who was subject to call-up when, in 1970 and 1971, he engaged in his leadership role in Vietnam Veterans Against the War ("VVAW") and in the fraud-ridden Winter Soldier Investigation in Detroit which featured fakes and phonies as alleged G.I. barbarians admitting atrocities in Vietnam. Per Kerry's records, no adverse action was taken against him administratively and, on March 1, 1972, after completing his six (6) years of mandatory service, Kerry was transferred to the "Standby Reserve – Inactive (USNR-S2)." The Kerry records reflect an adjustment of that transfer date to July, 1972, which may reflect a retention in an active status for some now omitted administrative action. However, it also may reflect an adjustment to comply with the six year mandatory service law, adding back the months of "inactive duty" in 1966 between Kerry's enlistment and his reporting to Officer Candidate School.

Taking the Kerry campaign at its word that nothing material has been omitted from the posted records, the provocative nature of Kerry's protest activities presents an obvious question: why was no action taken against Kerry while he was a reservist in an active status? Several explanations come to the forefront. The first involves a bit of legal history. During the period from 1969 until it was overruled in1987, the military services were constrained in their exercise of court-martial jurisdiction by the then-new, radical departure from tradition stated in O'Callahan v. Parker, 395 U.S. 258 (1969), an opinion by Justice William O. Douglas that is one of the very last opinions of the "Earl Warren Court." Under O'Callahan, the significance of one's status as a soldier or sailor, let alone the traditionally more demanding status of being an officer (and a gentleman), became secondary to whether one's criminal or subversive conduct occurred on duty or off duty. This was a difficult rule to apply to reservists and the military services exercised great restraint in asserting court-martial criminal jurisdiction, particularly in the case of reservists. The uncertain limits of the application to a reserve officer of the rule in O'Callahan would alone explain the lack of any punitive action against Senator Kerry for his VVAW and Winter Soldier Investigation excesses.

However, the criminal jurisdiction limitations of O'Callahan did not apply to administrative actions, raising the further provocative question why the Nixon Administration's Secretary of the Navy did not, at a minimum, proceed with administrative separation of Kerry based on the obvious grounds of his ineligibility to hold a security clearance. As any officer or former officer knows, personal reliability sufficient to warrant the retention of a security clearance is a basic requirement for any officer, active or reserve. Faced with a choice between: (1) the Nixon Administration supposedly "not being concerned" about the conduct of Fonda and Kerry, or (2) there being some other overriding issue or concern, the second choice is the far more likely option. The recent, highly-publicized revelations of then-Lieutenant Kerry apparently meeting with and coordinating anti-war activities with representatives of the North Vietnamese government presents a compelling reason for the Department of the Navy to have elected not to have taken disciplinary action against Kerry.

In a series of highly publicized hearings in the 1970s that reached their climax in the Carter years, Senator Frank Church (D.-Id.) and Congressman Otis Pike (D.-N.Y.) severely criticized the Nixon Administration for "spying on U.S. civilians" who engaged in protest activities less inimical to the interests of the United States than coordinating protest activities with the enemy. Assuming that there must have been such surveillance of VVAW and the "Winter Soldier Investigation," it is a fair assumption that the interest of maintaining the investigative "cover," in and of itself, would have militated against taking any disciplinary action. At the insistence of the Church Committee and Carter Administration, the Department of Defense formed the Defense Investigative Review Council which reviewed all such "spying" on civilians, purging the offending files and, where they affected military personnel, correcting personnel records tainted thereby. Thus, if adverse action had been taken against Lieutenant Kerry based on any such surveillance, it would have been a prime candidate for "correction."

This then brings the analyst of the Kerry service records to the most intriguing documents on the Kerry campaign web page: (1) the issuance of an honorable discharge certificate effective February 18, 1978, and (2) the Silver Star Medal citation executed by Ronald Reagan's Secretary of the Navy, John Lehman, seven or eight years after the alleged honorable discharge and over fifteen years after the incident for which the medal was awarded..

Taking the Kerry campaign at its word that nothing material has been omitted from the posted records, the significant item begging for an explanation is the gap between Kerry's 1972 transfer to "Standby Reserve-Inactive (USNR-S2)" and the issuance of the posted honorable discharge six years later. A naval reservist in this inactive status cannot drill, cannot be promoted and is merely in a manpower pool. Under clear regulatory authority, including the Bureau of Personnel Manual article referenced in the February 18, 1978 letter that forwarded Kerry's honorable discharge (BUPERSMAN 3830300), Kerry should have been discharged no later than 1975, three years after the transfer to Standby Reserve-Inactive (USNR-S2), if not earlier.

The absence of the discharge that should be in the record in 1975 cannot be readily explained by blaming "bureaucracy." The military services faced significant force reductions in 1972 and again in 1974, making slow-rolling of separations unlikely. Under the law then in effect, 10 U.S. Code section 1163, Lieutenant Kerry would have been entitled not to be separated without his consent or, in the absence thereof, with review of the Secretary of the Navy's action by a board of officers. Separation based on "conduct unbecoming an officer" or on commission of an offense (whether or not prosecuted criminally) of even misdemeanor level severity from the perspective of a civilian (i.e., an offense that could be punished by confinement of 6 months) would alone be enough to result in a discharge under conditions other than honorable. The current allegations that Lieutenant Kerry collaborated with North Vietnamese representatives would be a patent violation of the Logan Act, 18 U.S. Code section 953, and as such would easily meet this threshhold.

Unlike enlisted members, officers do not receive "other than honorable" or "dishonorable" certificates of discharge. To the contrary, the rule is that no certificate will be awarded to an officer separated wherever the circumstances prompting separation "are not deemed consonant with traditional naval concepts of 'honor'." The absence of an honorable discharge certificate for a separated naval officer is, therefore, a harsh and severe sanction and is, in fact, the treatment given officers who are dismissed after a general court-martial.

Accordingly, in the absence of an explanation for the exceptionally late issuance of the honorable discharge on the Kerry campaign web site, the unmistakeable inference is that the separation really occurred when it should have, i.e., in 1975, and that the discharge certificate was a mere "general discharge" which was removed from the service record or, if the campaign is telling the truth that there was no other certificate, that it was a discharge under circumstances not deemed consonant with traditional naval concepts of honor.

The inference of a discharge under such other than honorable circumstances is heightened by the odd and unexplained late re-issuance of Senator Kerry's silver star. Records of personal decorations are items subject to a 75-year retention by the Department of the Navy. Under SECNAVINST 1650.1G, the NAVY AND MARINE CORPS AWARDS MANUAL, a medal may be revoked if the service after issuance has not been honorable.

TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: discharge; johnkerry; kerry; kerrydischarge; lurch; militaryrecord; scumbgkerry
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We will get him yet
1 posted on 10/31/2004 6:49:30 PM PST by RogerRabbit
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2 posted on 10/31/2004 6:51:02 PM PST by jla
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To: RogerRabbit

Two days before the election... I just don't see this story really taking off.

3 posted on 10/31/2004 6:51:24 PM PST by Lunatic Fringe (
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To: RogerRabbit
4 posted on 10/31/2004 6:52:08 PM PST by airborne (God answers all prayers. Sometimes the answer is ,"No".)
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To: RogerRabbit

After Kerry loses, the "him" that needs to be gotten is the press, for dereliction of public duty.

5 posted on 10/31/2004 6:52:26 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: RogerRabbit
Here's a scarey scenario for a Halloween night.
Kerry wins
It is revealed he had a dishonorable discharge
The MSM is implicated in a coverup.
6 posted on 10/31/2004 6:52:38 PM PST by ProudVet77 (W stands for Winner)
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To: RogerRabbit

we need him got TONIGHT or early morning please :)

7 posted on 10/31/2004 6:53:17 PM PST by ArmyBratCutie ("Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:soap, ballot, jury, ammo in this order!")
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To: RogerRabbit

Which could explain the rewrite\rewording of the SS citation.

8 posted on 10/31/2004 6:56:53 PM PST by stylin19a (It's called GOLF because all the other 4 letter words were taken)
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To: ArmyBratCutie

I agree with you !!!

This needs to be forwarded to some "conservative or liberterian" radio talk show host who has the b***s to run with it.

Actually, I don't even care if it's true !! Bush has been called everything but a child molestor, and I'm sick and tired of playing nice.

Let the scumbag Democrats and John Kerry defend this rumor by proving it isn't true !!

9 posted on 10/31/2004 6:58:01 PM PST by RightWingNut
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To: RogerRabbit

THE story that

John Kerry's Discharge
He won't sign Form 180
What is he hiding?

"There is overwhelming evidence that the Navy gave John Kerry either a dishonorable discharge
or an undesirable discharge – which is the equivalent of a dishonorable discharge
without the felony conviction – and that, as a result of such discharge,
he was stripped of all of his famous but questionable Navy awards and medals.

And the kicker? The evidence is on his website!"

made sure you knew about the "Bush" documents.

Q) Why did
NOT ask Kerry about why he wouldn't sign Form 180?

A) Because they are AFRAID of the REAL story!

Don't let ABC, AP, CBS, CNN, FOX, NBC
try to "give" the election to Kerry
like they did Gore in FL

Spread the word on the internet!

Post on internet boards AND e-mails!

Kerry's October Surprise (Missippi Press)

THE Next Smoking Gun - the "proof"

Kerry's Military Discharge. What's Kerry Hiding?

Kerry's Dishonorable Discharge

Editorial Comments about Kerry's Discharge

Kerry Military Discharge Deception, look at the online documentation!

Mystery Surrounds Kerry's Navy Discharge

The original article, posted 9/24/04

The whole 42:09 Stolen Honor online FREE right now! E-mail it NOW!

Stolen Honor nails Kerry and the VVAW
and how they lied at Winter Soldier.
And how Kerry lied to the US Senate in 1971
And how Kerry and his pack of liars caused our POW's to suffer!

Kerry and the DNC cannot stop
EVERYONE on the internet from seeing this!

E-mail the FREE xxcerpts clips to everyone NOW!


Swift Vets and POW's
We Have Questions
Free Videos!

Hanoi Approved of Role Played By Kerry and VVAW

Timeline of John Kerry

Click Here for
All the Latest Swift Boat Vets Ad!

Click Here for
All the Swift Boat Vets Ads!
View for FREE!

Free online version of
John Kerry and the VVAW
"The New Soldier"
Banned by the DNC!
You can read it online right now.

The Swiftvets news conference on C-SPAN can be found here.
AND other valuable Video and Audio links.

The Children of Viet Nam Veterans Video (Not an easy one to watch)

Please remember the 58,000 + Names on the Wall on Nov 2

Please watch this video

Thank You

Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick

10 posted on 10/31/2004 6:58:56 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Nov 2 : Remember the 58,000 + Names on the Wall)
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To: RogerRabbit
I don't do "vanities" (you know, the big posts) but I will say this. The Veterans of this country are WAY under rated. The very fact that sKerry is on the ticket proves this is underrated and scary.

I want to be on the record that I love you guys (from Vietnam). I married a Vietnam Vet, and it was the best thing I've ever done.

God love our country. I was very much cognizant of what happened when you came home. :(
11 posted on 10/31/2004 6:59:03 PM PST by Raffus (Thanks to all Veterans for their service to our Country.)
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To: RogerRabbit
if Kerry is elected and the facts about this covered up discharge status are ever learned

If he is elected, these facts will never see the light of day.

12 posted on 10/31/2004 6:59:15 PM PST by expatpat
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To: RightWingNut

Im with you.....I just sent it to Fox and Drudge... maybe if we all send it, it will get noticed and picked up... heres my addys:,,,,,,,,,,,,,

13 posted on 10/31/2004 7:01:14 PM PST by ArmyBratCutie ("Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:soap, ballot, jury, ammo in this order!")
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To: RogerRabbit

If he has an OTH (Other Than Honorable) discharge, will he be allowed to have a TOP SECRET Clearance?

14 posted on 10/31/2004 7:01:30 PM PST by lawdude (Leftists see what they believe. Conservatives believe what they see.)
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To: RogerRabbit; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; BIGLOOK


15 posted on 10/31/2004 7:01:55 PM PST by Calpernia (
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To: ProudVet77

Constitutional Crisis.

16 posted on 10/31/2004 7:02:28 PM PST by tomnbeverly (Kerry will bring the Big Dig to Washington in the form of Healthcare becasue thats what liberals do)
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To: Lunatic Fringe
Two days before the election... I just don't see this story really taking off.

I agree. This is coming out far too late to have an impact. With the story three decades old, you'd think we could have gotten it out a few months earlier.

17 posted on 10/31/2004 7:02:41 PM PST by southernnorthcarolina (I support tax cuts for the rich... and I VOTE!)
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To: RogerRabbit
(viewing movie requires Flash Player 7, available HERE)



You know, somebody's analyzed the president's military aptitude tests and yours and they concluded that President Bush has a higher IQ than you do, senator.

Tom Brokaw

That's great. More power. I don't know how they"ve done it because my record isn't out in the public. So I don't know where you get that from.

John Kerry


18 posted on 10/31/2004 7:03:36 PM PST by Mia T (Stop Clintons' Undermining Machinations (The acronym is the message.))
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: lawdude
If I'm not mistaken political officials do not have to have clearances. Look at the Clinton mob, many never had clearances. It's kind of scarey actually.
20 posted on 10/31/2004 7:06:19 PM PST by ProudVet77 (W stands for Winner)
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