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It's Official - The South Won the Civil War!
11-3-04 | Always Right

Posted on 11/03/2004 8:24:39 AM PST by Always Right

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To: Always Right

101 posted on 11/04/2004 4:09:44 PM PST by tutstar ( <{{--->< http://ripe4change.4-all.org Violations of Florida Statutes ongoing!)
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To: Nightshift

ping


102 posted on 11/04/2004 4:13:09 PM PST by tutstar ( <{{--->< http://ripe4change.4-all.org Violations of Florida Statutes ongoing!)
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To: Non-Sequitur
But if you voted Republican, well, you'll just have to live down the embarassment.

Why should anyone be embarassed about your non-existant mythical third party? Or anyone but you, it's lone voter, that is.

103 posted on 11/04/2004 4:16:19 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: capitan_refugio
You are mistaken. Nevada silver, in particular, played an important part in financing the war.

That's a nice little story, but silver production in Nevada began in 1859 well before the war and Nevada's territorial government was organized as a procedural matter in the "secession winter" session of congress, also before the war. Nevada's state archivist Guy Rocha calls the claim that Nevada was admitted to finance the war "a wonderful tale, but nothing could be farther from the truth" given that the mining had been underway for several years. The real reason for its admittance, which came in late October 1864 (i.e. onyl a few months before the end of the war) was the fact that Lincoln wanted its electoral votes in his 1864 campaign and needed to bolster the moderate ranks in the Republican Congress, which was trending radical.

Confederate tripe.

The constitution is quite clear that no state may be split without the sanction of its legislature. Unless you can show me where the Virginia legislature gave that sanction, the split was illegal. It happened to be sure. But it was still illegal.

Reconstructed Virginia lost all of the court cases it made to recover West Virginia.

Incorrect. If memory serves me well, they sued to recover some of the counties that had been arbitrarily claimed by Wheeling and succeeded in doing so. They were content to let Wheeling go however due to years of differences.

The loyal citizens of western Virginia organized a Unionist government in the absense of any constitutional government within the boundaries of the state.

Bullsh*t. They set up a rump government in Wheeling, purported themselves to rule over about 30 counties to their south that wanted nothing to do with them, and voted for separate statehood with a Saddam Hussein-style "election."

The Cherokees, in particular, wised up by 1863 and pretty much repudiated any agreements they had with the south.

Last time I checked, Chief Stand Watie and the Cherokees he led were among the very last confederate troops to surrender in 1865.

104 posted on 11/04/2004 4:33:21 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: TexConfederate1861
I would rather not have my Party of choice associated with a Tyrant like "Abe"

So...you're a Democrat?

105 posted on 11/04/2004 4:34:01 PM PST by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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To: TexConfederate1861
Don't think that is so anymore...the Land of Lincoln went for KERRY!

But the Party of Lincoln went back to the White House.

106 posted on 11/04/2004 4:34:48 PM PST by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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To: capitan_refugio
With as many provisos and conditions as you have made on this statement, it becomes meaningless.

All I asked for was that the state fall clearly on the union side. Sure, this excludes states where loyalties were strongly divided no matter how much the Lincoln government pretended to legislate over them. But that's because the fact of that division itself means that they were not clear-cut unionist states! You can pretend that your side in Missouri was the better government than the elected confederate one but that will never change the fact that Missouri was a divided state.

When it comes to clear cut union states, there are only four that voted for Bush. What's so difficult to understand about that, capitan?

107 posted on 11/04/2004 4:37:23 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: Non-Sequitur
But the Party of Lincoln went back to the White House.

That's odd. I saw a Democrat on my ballot, a Republican on my ballot, and a Libertarian on my ballot. All three parties were identified by those names. There wasn't anything called the "Party of Lincoln" though.

108 posted on 11/04/2004 4:39:19 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: capitan_refugio
Here you go, capitan.

Notice that there are three types of states on the map:

The seceded states (both before and after sumter)

The border states

The union states

Out of all the union states, there are only four that voted for Bush: Ohio, Indiana, Iowa, and Kansas.

Do you comprehend now or are you going to respond with more word games and obfuscation?

109 posted on 11/04/2004 4:46:27 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: GOPcapitalist
You need to look a little further and get with the program. You seem to be one of the few objecting to the Party of Lincoln title. I mean, look at Mark Racicoit.

The GOP Chairman likes it.

So does Ed Gillespie.

And they're forever speaking at Lincoln Day celebrations, and at the Lincoln Memorial. Like it or not, the GOP goes out of it's way to tie itself with Abraham Lincoln.

In closing, I want to leave you with this quote from Mrs. Bush at the RNC.

"No American President ever wants to go to war. Abraham Lincoln didn't want to go to war, but he knew saving the union required it. Franklin Roosevelt didn't want to go to war - but he knew defeating tyranny demanded it. And my husband didn't want to go to war, but he knew the safety and security of America and the world depended on it."

She knows the truth about Abraham Lincoln. I suppose y'all are going to make it a point to take care of that, what with all y'all in charge of the Republican Party 'n all.

110 posted on 11/04/2004 4:58:26 PM PST by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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To: Always Right

Bush's raw margin in Texas and Georgia (2.24 million votes) was larger than Kerry's margin in New York and California (2.20 million).


111 posted on 11/04/2004 4:59:11 PM PST by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth...)
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Comment #112 Removed by Moderator

To: Always Right
Heck I knew the South had won ever since CSX and Norfolk Southern have taken over almost all railroads east of the Mississippi. The old Yankee railroads have been adsorbed.

Resistance was futile.

113 posted on 11/04/2004 5:26:42 PM PST by drc43 (John Kerry - Best when gone)
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To: Always Right
Excuse the map, I could not find one that had all the states colored in.

For once Iowa gets to be red, and they blow it on the map???

Man... dissapointment again. At least this time we ended up in the (R) column.

114 posted on 11/04/2004 6:17:57 PM PST by Gianni
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To: GOPcapitalist
Your states - like Iowa - are the outlying buoys in the harbor that casually drift our way from time to time.

Watch it there, bub. Iowa has largely the same problem that Ohio (and Kentucky, for that matter) has. The state political machines are largely run by organized labor, and goes Dem in spite of being social conservatives.

It's unfortunate, but it's changing as the Dems move away from middle-America's values to embrace the militant homosexuals and the fringe whackos. In 2000, we were close. In 2004, Bush won. Things are looking brighter all the time.

115 posted on 11/04/2004 6:29:48 PM PST by Gianni
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To: Always Right

It just looks like the South rose again. If you look at the map with counties you'll see that it's Urban against Rural/Suburban.

It was nice of the South to Vote for the President,though. : D


116 posted on 11/04/2004 6:33:24 PM PST by madison10
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To: Always Right

As an unfortunate resident of a "Blue" state, I am so happy we have the Southern states to thank for our momentous victory but your analogy is absolutely assinine! It is ignorant and hurtful and reflects badly on your fellow conservatives who abhor the implication that the freeing of an enslaved people was not morally justified.


117 posted on 11/04/2004 6:55:11 PM PST by go-dubya-04
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To: GOPcapitalist
Thank you for graphically displaying an example of your tunnel vision. Let's go back to what the original post says:

Always Right - "My history books said the south lost the Civil War, but apparently that was just a battle. The south lost the battle of 1861-1865, but now are winning the war. Excuse the map, I could not find one that had all the states colored in."

Clearly, the intent of the poster was to draw an association between the "red" states of the old South and the other "red" states of the of the West, Rockies, and Plains. This provides the context of my statements, and is the point you have completely missed. All of the territory occupied by the "lower 48" was within the jurisdiction of the United States in 1861. (We can ignore Alaska and Hawaii for the purpose of this discussion.) The CSA (aka "South," as in the "the south lost") was comprised of the 11 so-called seceded states. You may want to also claim Kentucky, Missouri, and the territory now occupied by Arizona and New Mexico, but the fact of the matter is the confederacy never maintained actual control of these areas.

Neither was the "Union" confined to the states you show in your graphic. It included the Pacific Coast states and territories, as well as the area in between. All Union, all garrisoned by Union and loyal militia troops during the War, and all contributors to the Union cause.

You attempt to make a narrow point about the relationship of the old south and the Bush victory, and fail to consider the importance of the other "red" state areas which were organized later into full-fledged states.

118 posted on 11/04/2004 7:05:31 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: GOPcapitalist
"When it comes to clear cut union states, there are only four that voted for Bush. What's so difficult to understand about that, capitan?"

What is so hard for you to comprehend that the Union was comprised of states and territories?

119 posted on 11/04/2004 7:07:12 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: SedVictaCatoni

The parties were far different then than they are now. Any comparison to today's party ideology is really difficult to equate.


120 posted on 11/04/2004 7:18:13 PM PST by CurlyBill (Voter Fraud is one of the primary campaign strategies of the Democrats!)
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To: Non-Sequitur
You seem to be one of the few objecting to the Party of Lincoln title.

Insofar as it is used as a title, yes. Indeed I do object. If you want to state that the GOP was the party - small p - to which Abraham Lincoln belonged that is fine. That is what Racicot did. But as far as this goofy "Party of Lincoln" concept goes, I prefer not to be involved in your fringe third party movements so I'll leave that one to you.

121 posted on 11/04/2004 7:37:25 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: Non-Sequitur
She knows the truth about Abraham Lincoln.

From her quote, which mentions FDR as well, I take it that you also think Mrs. Bush is a big government new dealer?

122 posted on 11/04/2004 7:38:15 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: Always Right

Play this song for your sad Democrat friends - it will cheer them up - NOT!

http://jhanch.web2010.com/whitehouse.ram

posted by reliapundit at 3:38 PM 0 comments


123 posted on 11/04/2004 7:41:24 PM PST by 2ThumbsUp
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To: CurlyBill
Any comparison to today's party ideology is really difficult to equate.

... which is why it is idiotic to say things like "It's Official - The South Won the Civil War".

124 posted on 11/04/2004 7:44:12 PM PST by SedVictaCatoni (<><)
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To: capitan_refugio
Clearly, the intent of the poster was to draw an association between the "red" states of the old South and the other "red" states of the of the West, Rockies, and Plains.

Is that what you read into it? Cause I saw a simple post that observed how Bush's reelection vote was anchored in the old CSA states. The "all the states colored in" comment was obviously a reference to the fact that Bush has won Iowa, though the MSM has not updated their maps to reflect it. That you would read something different into that is indicative of a troubled mind that sees any simple mention of the civil war or the old confederacy in any context and, as if by gut reaction, allows his vision to be clouded by prejudices and hatred against the south.

All of the territory occupied by the "lower 48" was within the jurisdiction of the United States in 1861.

Indeed it was, but approximately half of it was unpopulated back then and cannot rightly be said to have favored either side during the war (unless you are planning on telling us of another Battle of Fort Davis where the cacti and buffalo participated in the conflict).

The CSA (aka "South," as in the "the south lost") was comprised of the 11 so-called seceded states.

12 plus a rump government from a thirteenth, Kentucky. Whether you wish to recognize secession or not is of no consequence to me as your position on the issue is not derived from reason and is therefore undeserving of further discussion. but the fact of the matter is the confederacy never maintained actual control of these areas.

Let's apply your "logic" further...Lincoln claimed Texas for all four years in office yet the fact of the matter is that Lincoln never maintained actual control over Texas - it seceded before he took the oath and didn't lay down its arms until after he was dead.

All Union, all garrisoned by Union and loyal militia troops during the War, and all contributors to the Union cause.

And exactly what significant actions did they do for the yankees? Send a couple sacks of potatos and tumbleweeds over to the east? Sacrifice one of their senators to the waters of the potomac and a bunch of confederate guns?

125 posted on 11/04/2004 7:49:08 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: capitan_refugio
What is so hard for you to comprehend that the Union was comprised of states and territories?

What is so hard for you to comprehend that most of those territories were barren and unpopulated in 1861 and that those states on the west coast from 1861 all went to Kerry?

126 posted on 11/04/2004 7:50:16 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: Always Right
1. This isn't news (so why is it posted here?)...
2. The Republican Party started in the Union with the goal to abolish slavery, and I'm grateful for all the Southerners that have joined. But bashing the North is ignorant, as there are many Republicans still in the North.
3. The Republican Party has always been on the right side of history. It opposed slavery when it was popular. Opposes abortion when it's popular, and opposes gay marriage when it (seems) popular.
4. North Dakota and Idaho are hardly the South.
5. The Silent Majority won, (who are both in the north and south)
6. If you look at a county by county map, you'll notice that there's a lot of red! (EVERYWHERE)

I really hate this whole north and south crap!!! We are America. Not the north, not the south. The Civil War is over and get over it. It's frustrating how many here, are still stuck in the past (the past that they weren't even alive for).

If I sound a bit pissed, I think it's because I'm tired of the North/South crap and the stupid slang used here towards those in the North such as the "damnyankee". This only serves to divide the Republican Party.

Also, some of the comments here, make it sound like the Southern Democrats have hijacked the Republican Party. It was the Democrats that refused to pass Civil Rights early on. It took a Republican senate and house to get the laws passed.

I welcome all southern democrats that have gotten away from their racist ways, and have converted to the Republican way of thinking. However, don't forget the great legacy of the GOP.
127 posted on 11/04/2004 7:54:22 PM PST by cmurphy
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To: SedVictaCatoni

Well, I think that what he was inferring was that the south now has become the predominant political force in the US, which is quite the opposite 140 years ago. The overlay doesn't exactly match, but it is striking. Several years ago, they were talking about the "soccer moms" yet this time they talk about the "NASCAR dads" .... how prophetic!


128 posted on 11/04/2004 8:09:37 PM PST by CurlyBill (Voter Fraud is one of the primary campaign strategies of the Democrats!)
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To: Non-Sequitur

No...I'm a Republican, which is NOT the party of Abe the Tyrant.


129 posted on 11/04/2004 8:20:48 PM PST by TexConfederate1861 (Sic Semper Tyrannis!)
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To: Non-Sequitur

No..the President is a TEXAN, hence a Southerner. A TEXAN is in the White House.


130 posted on 11/04/2004 8:22:23 PM PST by TexConfederate1861 (Sic Semper Tyrannis!)
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To: ER_in_OC,CA
FWIW, most of my roots are in KS, a wonderful, conservative state with big current support for Republicans, and a history of being a Northern and abolitionist state back then.

Hey brother.

When you look at the map I think the best we can say is that today The South is more than a geographical located state.

It is a state of mind.

When I look at that map I see a lot of good like minded brothers and sisters all over the country.

Regards. MRN

131 posted on 11/04/2004 8:36:41 PM PST by mississippi red-neck (John Kerry is Catholic. John Kerry supports Abortion and Gay Marriage. Flip flop,flip flop.)
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To: GOPcapitalist
"What is so hard for you to comprehend that most of those territories were barren and unpopulated in 1861 and that those states on the west coast from 1861 all went to Kerry?"

Sparsely populated, yes. "Barren and unpopulated," no.

By way of example, Florida in 1860 had a free population of fewer than 80,000.

Colorado Territory - 34,300
Nebraska Territory - 28,800 (statehood in 1867)
New Mexico Territory - 95,500 (comprising New Mexico and Arizona, separate Arizona Territory created by Congress in 1863)
Utah Territory - 40,000 (parts of Colorado and Wyoming)
Dakota Territory - 4,800 (comprising N. and S. Dakota, parts of Wyoming and Montana)
Nevada Territory - 6,900 (from Utah territory in 1861 during silver rush - statehood in 1864)
Washington Territory - 11,500 (included Idaho and parts of Wyoming)

You can see that your "unpopulated" statement is bunk.

132 posted on 11/04/2004 9:49:54 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: capitan_refugio
"19 of those states were NOT part of the Confederacy."

It was almost 20. We came within a point of getting the Keystone State. I don't know about all of you here, but I won't be happy until my great Commonwealth is colored as red as the rest!!!
133 posted on 11/04/2004 9:53:18 PM PST by Windcatcher
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To: GOPcapitalist
"unless you are planning on telling us of another Battle of Fort Davis where the cacti and buffalo participated in the conflict"

I never made mention of a "Battle of Fort Davis." That is your concoction and misrepresentation. You need not spread your lies here.

"12 plus a rump government from a thirteenth, Kentucky."

Neither the Missouri nor Kentucky lost their representation in the US Congress. The actions of renegade legislatures or insurrectionist conventions had no effect on the continuation of those states' loyalty to the Union. Only 11 southern states needed to be reconstructed.

"And exactly what significant actions did they do for the yankees? Send a couple sacks of potatos and tumbleweeds over to the east?"

Your lack of knowledge of the history of the American west is appalling. There were important mineral discoveries throughout the American West in the 1840's and 1850's. Colorado and Nevada both saw gold and silver strikes in 1858. In Nevada these included the Virginia City, Humboldt, and Esmerelda Districts. In Colorado these included the Clear Creek and Central City Districts. The Idaho and Montana areas had similar rushes in 1861-1864. All of these areas produced a significant amount of revenue for the United States. Nevada alone was producing in excess of $24 million per year.

And every loyal State and Territory in the West provided an allotment of militia, many of whom freed up Federal regulars to return east. Some of those militia units participated in the few western actions, and others did go east and participate in the actions there.

134 posted on 11/04/2004 10:18:46 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: Windcatcher
Is there a final vote count yet? I don't know how long you need to wait for absentees in Pennsylvania. I wonder how legitimate the results are from Philadelphia County. There was another thread which addressed that issue.

As aggrevating as some of the results seem, it only takes a relatively samll movement to reverse the results. For instance, in California 11 out of 20 voters went for sKerry. 9 out of 20 went for Bush. What issue might bring 1 in 20 voters back from the "dark side"?

135 posted on 11/04/2004 10:24:30 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: GOPcapitalist
"The constitution is quite clear that no state may be split without the sanction of its legislature. Unless you can show me where the Virginia legislature gave that sanction, the split was illegal. It happened to be sure. But it was still illegal."

You show me that there was a functioning constitutional government in Virgina in 1863, outside of the western counties! Insurrectionists didn't derive any benefits from the Constitution they spat upon. LOL

The mountaineers organized a state government where none existed.

136 posted on 11/04/2004 10:30:13 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: bushpilot
I'll be glad to tell you my votes: President/Vice president - Bush/Cheney (R) won nationally, lost state
Senator - Bill Jones (R) lost to Barbara Boxer
Congressman - Elton Gallegly (R) won
State Senator - Tom McClintock (R) won
State Assembly - Audra Strickland (R) won.

I'm in a decidedly Republican "red" part of California.

I am sure my votes would upset your friend nolu coward. I wonder how he voted? Hmmmm. Have you ever seen him post a positive comment about George Bush?

137 posted on 11/04/2004 10:41:00 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: capitan_refugio
You can see that your "unpopulated" statement is bunk.

A couple thousand people in a few tiny outposts scattered across the land equivalent of over 800,000 square miles is unpopulated by any reasonable definition. Even assuming your unsourced population figures are accurate (and I'm not at all inclined to believe that they are without a source given your lengthy history of fraudulently fabricating court decisions, quotations, and even civil war battles to suit your argument), the population density alone is virtually negligable so as to render a description of "unpopulated" accurate. To make a semantic dispute out of it also indicates your affliction with a severe anal retentive disorder, and one that has been festering for quite some time.

138 posted on 11/04/2004 10:59:40 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: capitan_refugio
You show me that there was a functioning constitutional government in Virgina in 1863, outside of the western counties!

Easy. Just go down to the capitol building in Richmond and you'll find an uninterupted house and senate journal throughout those years.

139 posted on 11/04/2004 11:01:05 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: GOPcapitalist

Nice try, but they were not operating under the US Constitution of 1787. They were an insurrectionist legislature and nothing did during that time was recognized as legal. In the eyes of the law, they did not even exist.


140 posted on 11/04/2004 11:06:12 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: capitan_refugio
I never made mention of a "Battle of Fort Davis."

You claimed that Fort Davis was captured by a military force - your words, not mine - when in fact the fort was (a) abandoned, (b) never formally garrisoned by the supposed "capturing" force, and (c) abandoned again after they used it as a campsite for a total of one single night.

Neither the Missouri nor Kentucky lost their representation in the US Congress.

Lincoln had their senators booted and replaced with his own puppets. He did the same thing with the state governments in Missouri and Maryland, which he rigged in his favor via voter fraud in their next state election.

The actions of renegade legislatures or insurrectionist conventions had no effect on the continuation of those states' loyalty to the Union.

You're still affirming the consequent of your own lame argument. You do so because your argument is not derived from reason and you refuse to employ reason to derive an alternative. That being the case, I see no purpose in attempting to get you to think about it any further.

There were important mineral discoveries throughout the American West in the 1840's and 1850's. Colorado and Nevada both saw gold and silver strikes in 1858.

La-de-da. That still doesn't make California any closer to, say, Gettysburg or Fredericksburg or Vicksburg or even Mesilla for that matter. Bottom line: the far west was on the outer periphery of the war and had barely anything to do with it at all. That which did occur happened in New Mexico and Arizona, which were and are still hundreds of miles away from the territories you speak about.

And every loyal State and Territory in the West provided an allotment of militia, many of whom freed up Federal regulars to return east.

Yeah, all two dozen of them! I'm sure those yankee feds in the east sure felt happy about their "contribution"!

141 posted on 11/04/2004 11:10:43 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: GOPcapitalist
"A couple thousand people in a few tiny outposts scattered across the land equivalent of over 800,000 square miles is unpopulated by any reasonable definition."

The term I originally used, "sparsely," is accurate. Though you wish to downplay the actual number of people who resided there, there was a substantial population which continued to grow during the war. You can compre the 1860 census figures to the 1870 census figures yourself.

"... and I'm not at all inclined to believe that they are without a source given your lengthy history of fraudulently fabricating court decisions, quotations, and even civil war battles to suit your argument."

I thought I told you not to spread your lies here. Do you get the finger? Sorry, Freudian slip.

"To make a semantic dispute out of it also indicates your affliction with a severe anal retentive disorder, and one that has been festering for quite some time."

Since you seem not to claim any medical training, I assume you are familiar with the terminolgy by experience. You are falling quickly into your old bad habits. Lose the argument; start the trash talking. Like I said before, you long ago ceased to be a serious poster here.

142 posted on 11/04/2004 11:14:58 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: SedVictaCatoni

You are hardly one to be accusing others of poor taste. Take your hatred elsewhere.


143 posted on 11/04/2004 11:16:27 PM PST by BykrBayb (5 minutes of prayer for Terri, every day at 11 am EDT, until she's safe. http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: capitan_refugio
Nice try, but they were not operating under the US Constitution of 1787

Indeed they were not. They were operating under the direct lineal successor of the 1776 Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia, which predates both the Constitution of 1787 and the union itself. Virginia did not need the Constitution of 1787 for their own Constitution to be in place.

144 posted on 11/04/2004 11:19:53 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: GOPcapitalist
"You claimed that Fort Davis was captured by a military force - your words, not mine - when in fact the fort was (a) abandoned, (b) never formally garrisoned by the supposed "capturing" force, and (c) abandoned again after they used it as a campsite for a total of one single night."

You again misrepresent what I wrote. I simply used the term "captured." "Capture" is defined as "to take poseession of." My terminology was, again, correct. You continue to spread your lies here. Have you no shame?

"Yeah, all two dozen of them! I'm sure those yankee feds in the east sure felt happy about their "contribution"!"

Well, it seems that the western states and territories militia chased those Texans all the way back to San Antonio!

145 posted on 11/04/2004 11:22:12 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: GOPcapitalist
"You're still affirming the consequent of your own lame argument. You do so because your argument is not derived from reason and you refuse to employ reason to derive an alternative. That being the case, I see no purpose in attempting to get you to think about it any further."

Not at all! The actions of the Neosho "legislative" session and the Kentucky convention were legally invalid and of no consequence. Neither body had any right or legal power to conduct business in behalf of the loyal citizens of the states. They were not much more than criminal enterprises.

146 posted on 11/04/2004 11:27:15 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: capitan_refugio
The term I originally used, "sparsely," is accurate.

If that's what you want to call it fine by me. The point is, though, that there was virtually nobody there.

Though you wish to downplay the actual number of people who resided there

Provide a source on that "actual number" if you intend to discuss it further. Either way though, for 800,000 square miles of land the population was virtually negligable.

I thought I told you not to spread your lies here.

It's no matter of lie, capitan, on anybody's part but your own. You made up supreme court decisions and got caught. You attempted to insert extraneous material into those decisions and got caught. You claimed that yankee troops engaged in the military capture of a fort which turned out to be abandoned and which they did not even hold. It's all a matter of record right here on FR and that record shows that you are a filthy liar.

Since you seem not to claim any medical training, I assume you are familiar with the terminolgy by experience.

I was trying to put it in a milder way, but I guess I'll say it bluntly. You're full of crap, capitan, and one doesn't need medical training to know or see that fact.

Lose the argument; start the trash talking.

I take it then that your surrender began a couple dozen posts or so back.

147 posted on 11/04/2004 11:27:40 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: Non-Sequitur
Looks to me like the south has finally joined the Northern and Western states.

God forbid! There'd be no place left for us Americans.

148 posted on 11/04/2004 11:28:44 PM PST by BykrBayb (5 minutes of prayer for Terri, every day at 11 am EDT, until she's safe. http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: capitan_refugio
You again misrepresent what I wrote. I simply used the term "captured." "Capture" is defined as "to take poseession of."

There's that anal retention kicking in again, capitan. You used "capture" in the common military sense, which EVERY SINGLE DICTIONARY out there defines as a forceful or strategic act of taking possession of something against the will of another. Nothing of the sort ever happened at Fort Davis

American Heritage Dictionary: "To take captive, as by force or craft; seize"
Websters: "The act of seizing by force, or getting possession of by superior power or by stratagem; as, the capture of an enemy, a vessel, or a criminal."
Princeton WordNet: "The act of forcibly dispossessing an owner of property"

What's even more telling is that your yankee troops did not even "take possession" of Fort Davis! They camped out there for one night and left the next morning, never to return until 1867!

Well, it seems that the western states and territories militia chased those Texans all the way back to San Antonio!

Incorrect as usual. The Texans never even met the californy militia save for a single skirmish outside of Tuscon. They retreated after a couple months of fighting with the federal regulars who had been out their in frontier garrisons all along.

149 posted on 11/04/2004 11:34:45 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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To: capitan_refugio
Not at all! The actions of the Neosho "legislative" session and the Kentucky convention were legally invalid and of no consequence.

Nobody doubts that Kentucky was a rump convention. Neosho is another story as it involved the ONLY legally elected and republican form of government in the state of Missouri. Both the witness accounts and the newspapers say there was a quorum present and you have yet to produce any evidence otherwise.

150 posted on 11/04/2004 11:36:34 PM PST by GOPcapitalist
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