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10 Reasons Why Vladimir Putin Supports George W. Bush
MosNews ^ | 11/3/2004 | Anton Nossik

Posted on 11/03/2004 5:00:22 PM PST by A. Pole

Russia’s president Vladimir Putin had made several statements over the last six months, voicing his strong and unequivocal support for George W. Bush’s reelection bid. First, during his American visit last summer, Putin said that the Democrats had no moral right to criticize the incumbent for the Iraq invasion, after what they did to Serbia in 1999.

Later in Astana Putin said that the Iraq invasion was indeed justified, because Saddam was planning terror attacks against U.S. targets, according to Russian intelligence. Finally, in October Putin said that Kerry’s candidacy was supported by international terrorists, waging a war on the United States.

Political pundits on both sides of the Atlantic tend to explain Putin’s sympathies by a common belief, that the Democrats, should they win this election, will inevitably get involved in Russia’s internal affairs, as their record suggests. The Democrats were expected to care about YUKOS, Chechnya, human rights and Russian press freedom — all issues that George W. Bush never showed any serious concern for, as long as Russia didn’t interfere in his military campaigns overseas.

Without trying to disprove these expectations or discuss their utterly theoretical value, one can find at least ten other reasons that place Vladimir Putin among George W. Bush’s supporters, based on demographic data, as reflected in last night’s exit polls.

First, Mr. Putin is a white male, which makes him a Bush voter with a probability of 61 percent.

Second, the Putin family’s financial situation clearly improved over the last four years. 79 percent of voters who share this view regarding their own families vote for Bush.

Third, Putin’s annual income clearly exceeds $50,000, and 55 percent of people in this income group are supporting Bush.

Fourth, neither Putin nor his wife, his pet dog or his daughters belong to any sort of union, which makes Putin’s household likely to support Bush in 55 percent of cases.

Fifth, Putin is employed full-time, and Bush enjoys the support of 52 percent of full time workers.

Sixth, Putin is neither liberal, nor moderate. His reverence to both Soviet and Orthodox Christianity legacies makes him a clear conservative, and 83 percent of all American conservatives vote Bush.

Seventh, Putin is married with children, and 56 percent of voters in this bracket vote Bush.

Eighth, Putin is the acting head of the entire Russian military, and 57 percent of uniformed voters and vets support Bush.

Ninth, Putin isn’t gay, nor is he a lesbian or a bisexual. Which means a 52 percent probability of voting for Dubya.

Finally, we’ve seen and heard Putin preoccupied with the terror problem lately, and 86 percent of those that see terrorism as the most important issue supported George W. Bush in his reelection bid Tuesday.

And if more than 60 pecent of the Russian population, as surveyed in both online and offline polls supported John F. Kerry, this simply means that they don’t fall into the same income and age group with their president.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Political Humor/Cartoons; Politics/Elections; Russia
KEYWORDS: ally; allyrussia; bush; elections; fourmoreyears; putin; russia
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1 posted on 11/03/2004 5:00:22 PM PST by A. Pole
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To: A. Pole

I can give you 300+ reasons why, now buried in a small town called Breslan. :-(


2 posted on 11/03/2004 5:02:28 PM PST by pillut48 (CJ in TX)
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To: A. Pole
Being supported by this "ex-"KGB henchman isn't exactly something Bush should be proud of.
3 posted on 11/03/2004 5:02:50 PM PST by inquest (We have more people patrolling Bosnia's borders than we have patrolling our own borders)
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To: A. Pole

While he's being so candid, maybe he can explain the GPS jammers the Iraqis tried to employ against our JDAMS and come clean about the special forces ferrying munitions to Syria. Always remember where his roots are....the old Soviet bloc and the KGB.


4 posted on 11/03/2004 5:05:37 PM PST by edpc
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To: inquest

The key is "ex". Time changes things and people. The (globalist) MSM has been beating up on Putin pretty badly. Think about it.


5 posted on 11/03/2004 5:05:43 PM PST by monkeywrench
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To: inquest

Having Russia on our side is a MAJOR asset.

Here's the biggest reason of all why Putin supported Bush: Putin is smart, and anyone with a brain supported Bush over sKerry.


6 posted on 11/03/2004 5:06:08 PM PST by Malleus Dei ("Communists are just Democrats with less patience.")
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To: monkeywrench
The key is "ex". Time changes things and people.

Uh-huh. All those apparatchiks came around and saw the light and the errors of their ways - NOT.

Russia is very much back on its way to being a one-party state, and Putin is cultivating a very Stalinesque cult of personality. And he's using the terrorist attacks against his country as an excuse for further consolidatiing his power.

7 posted on 11/03/2004 5:08:52 PM PST by inquest (We have more people patrolling Bosnia's borders than we have patrolling our own borders)
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To: Malleus Dei
Having Russia on our side is a MAJOR asset.

You mean the same Russia that provided nuclear technology to Iran and was in bed with Saddam's regime? Yeah, real asset.

8 posted on 11/03/2004 5:10:52 PM PST by inquest (We have more people patrolling Bosnia's borders than we have patrolling our own borders)
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To: inquest
Being supported by this "ex-"KGB henchman isn't exactly something Bush should be proud of.

Should Bush be proud of the support given to his war in Iraq by the Polish government? Leaders of this government are high ranking "ex-Commies".

9 posted on 11/03/2004 5:13:05 PM PST by A. Pole (Pyrrhus of Epirus: "One more such victory and we are undone.")
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To: A. Pole

=== Putin said that the Democrats had no moral right to criticize the incumbent for the Iraq invasion, after what they did to Serbia in 1999.



OH MY GOSH ... how did I miss this addition to the "Bombs Rule out Talks of Peace" Chernomyrdin Truth Vault?

Too funny. I have got to find this cite.

Why couldn't we have the Intelligence Officer leadership with the sense irony, the irresistible mystique and the serpentine smarts, damnit?


10 posted on 11/03/2004 5:13:43 PM PST by Askel5 ( Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. )
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To: Askel5

I just got a new tagline. Thank you!


11 posted on 11/03/2004 5:16:32 PM PST by A. Pole (Putin: "Democrats had no moral right to criticize the Iraq invasion, after what they did to Serbia.")
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To: inquest

Oh, horse feathers! There are plenty of lefties there, as here. They work together. Putin is on the outside like Bush is. He is getting hit for the same reasons.


12 posted on 11/03/2004 5:19:10 PM PST by monkeywrench
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To: A. Pole
Should Bush be proud of the support given to his war in Iraq by the Polish government?

No. Polish people, yes.

13 posted on 11/03/2004 5:31:48 PM PST by inquest (We have more people patrolling Bosnia's borders than we have patrolling our own borders)
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To: A. Pole

Do you think Russia and the US will become allies in the war on terror?


14 posted on 11/03/2004 5:32:07 PM PST by Sawdring
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To: monkeywrench
How many parliamentarians have been assassinated in the past few years? How many were pro-Putin and how many critical of Putin?

Add to that the state-run news networks that constantly promote his agenda, and the posters of his visage popping up everywhere like you see with third-world despots, and you begin to get the picture.

15 posted on 11/03/2004 5:35:21 PM PST by inquest (We have more people patrolling Bosnia's borders than we have patrolling our own borders)
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To: edpc; A. Pole

Ummm, the munitions story was another Geortz bag of hot air. Note no one is talking about it now that the 2 day orgy of conspiracies are passed. DoD admitted to using them to blow up 400,000 tons of other munitions. ABC's cameras showed they were still there. The blame the Russians first crowd needs to chill out, they come in 2 brands: Cold War left overs who want their glory and Islamics who don't want a new Glory on their heads.


16 posted on 11/04/2004 4:33:19 AM PST by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: inquest; A. Pole

I about a former hard leftist (Labor), still PC and pro EU unionist Blair? Or a former indited business man Berlusconi? Or a former hard core communist in present day Poland? Which of America's allies' leaders don't have something questionable in their past, to include Bush himself? People change, at least Christianity allows us to see it that way.


17 posted on 11/04/2004 4:35:51 AM PST by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: jb6
If you can't tell the difference between being a high-up member of the most criminal organization in world history, and merely having something "questionable" in one's past, then you're not going to have much success discerning anything.

By the way, in your above post you neglected to come up with an excuse for the other point the poster raised, namely Russia's supplying Saddam with that jamming equipment. The excuse given by Moskow at the time was that our missiles could end up killing civilians. But of course, jamming the missiles' guidance systems greatly increased the risk to civilians.

18 posted on 11/04/2004 7:49:48 AM PST by inquest (We have more people patrolling Bosnia's borders than we have patrolling our own borders)
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To: jb6

The people that believe we can totally trust the Russian govt are naive, to put it nicely. There's too much corruption in what's left of their shattered military. It's been well documented that a former Russian mafia figure assisted American authorities in the prevention of a nuclear submarine sale. I wont't go as far to say that the operation to spirit munitions (chemical, or otherwise) was an order that came from the top, but the Russians definitely had dealings with Iraq well after the sanctions were in place and leading up to the start of combat. If Gertz said it, you can believe it. He's no Dan Rather.


19 posted on 11/05/2004 5:08:25 AM PST by edpc
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To: A. Pole

Putin is an unreformed Communist dictator (and an enemy of the US). He is truly living up (or should I say down) to his KGB pedigree.

September 20, 2004, 8:14 a.m.
No Peter the Great
Vladimir Putin is in the Andropov mold.

By Ion Mihai Pacepa

Vladimir Putin looks more and more like a heavy-handed imitation of Yuri Andropov — does anyone still remember him? Andropov was that other KGB chairman who rose all the way up to the Kremlin throne, and who was also once my de facto boss. Considering that Putin has inherited upwards of 6,000 suspected strategic nuclear weapons, this is frightening news.

Former KGB officers are now running Russia's government, just as they did during Andropov's reign, and the Kremlin's image — another Andropov specialty — continues to be more important than people's real lives in that still-inscrutable country. The government's recent catastrophic Beslan operation was a reenactment of the effort to "rescue" 2,000 people from Moscow's Dubrovka Theater, where the "new" KGB flooded the hall with fentanyl gas and caused the death of 129 hostages. No wonder Putin ordered Andropov's statue — which had been removed after the Soviet Union's collapse in 1991 — reinstalled at the Lubyanka.

In the West, if Andropov is remembered at all, it is for his brutal suppression of political dissidence at home and for his role in planning the 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia. By contrast, the leaders of the former Warsaw Pact intelligence community, when I was one of them, looked up to Andropov as the man who substituted the KGB for the Communist party in governing the Soviet Union, and who was the godfather of Russia's new era of deception operations aimed at improving the badly damaged image of Soviet rulers in the West.

In early 2000, President Putin divided Russia into seven "super" districts, each headed by a "presidential representative," and he gave five of these seven new posts to former KGB officers. Soon, his KGB colleagues occupied nearly 50 percent of the top government positions in Moscow. In a brief interview with Ted Koppel on Nightline, Putin admitted that he had stuffed the Kremlin with former KGB officers, but he said it was because he wanted to root out graft. "I have known them for many years and I trust them. It has nothing to do with ideology. It's simply a matter of their professional qualities and personal relationship."


THE NATIONAL POLITICAL PASTIME
In reality, it's an old Russian tradition to fill the most important governmental positions with undercover intelligence officers. The czarist Okhrana security service planted its agents everywhere: in the central and local government, and in political parties, labor unions, churches, and newspapers. Until 1913, Pravda itself was edited by one of them, Roman Malinovsky, who rose to become Lenin's deputy for Russia and the chairman of the Bolshevik faction in the Duma.

Andropov Sovietized that Russian tradition and extended its application nationwide. It was something similar to militarizing the government in wartime, but it was accomplished by the KGB. In 1972, when he launched this new offensive, KGB Chairman Andropov told me that this would help eliminate the current plague of theft and bureaucratic chaos and would combat the growing sympathy for American jazz, films, and blue jeans obsessing the younger Soviet generation. Andropov's new undercover officers were secretly remunerated with tax-free salary supplements and job promotions. In exchange, Andropov explained, they would secretly have to obey "our" military regulations, practice "our" military discipline and carry out "our" tasks, if they wanted to keep their jobs. Of course, the KGB had long been using diplomatic cover slots for its officers assigned abroad, but Andropov's new approach was designed to influence the Soviet Union itself.

The lines separating the leadership of the country from the intelligence apparatus had blurred in the Soviet satellites as well. After I was granted political asylum in the United States in July 1978, the Western media reported that my defection had unleashed the greatest political purge in the history of Communist Romania. Ceausescu had demoted politburo members, fired one-third of his cabinet, and replaced ambassadors. All were undercover intelligence officers whose military documents and pay vouchers I had regularly signed off on.


THE MAKING OF A DICTATOR
General Aleksandr Sakharovsky, the Soviet gauleiter of Romania who rose to head the Soviet foreign intelligence service for an unprecedented 15 years, used to predict to me that KGB Chairman Andropov would soon have the whole Soviet bloc in his vest pocket, and that he would surely end up in the Kremlin. Andropov would have to wait ten years until Brezhnev died, but on November 12, 1982, he did take up the country's reins. Once settled in the Kremlin, Andropov surrounded himself with KGB officers, who immediately went on a propaganda offensive to introduce him to the West as a "moderate" Communist and a sensitive, warm, Western-oriented man who allegedly enjoyed an occasional drink of Scotch, liked to read English novels, and loved listening to American jazz and the music of Beethoven. In actual fact, Andropov did not drink, as he was already terminally ill from a kidney disorder, and the rest of the portrayal was equally false.

In 1999, when Putin became prime minister, he also surrounded himself with KGB officers, who began describing him as a "Europeanized" leader — capitalizing, ironically, on the fact that he had been a KGB spy abroad. Yet Putin's only foreign experience had been in East Germany, on Moscow's side of the Berlin Wall. Soon after that I visited the Stasi headquarters in Leipzig and Dresden to see where Putin had spent his "Europeanizing" years. Local representatives of the Gauck Commission — a special post-Communism German panel researching the Stasi files — said that the "Soviet-German 'friendship house'" Putin headed for six years was actually a KGB front with operational offices at the Leipzig and Dresden Stasi headquarters. Putin's real task was to recruit East German engineers as KGB agents and send them to the West to steal American technologies.

I visited those offices and found that they looked just like the offices of my own midlevel case officers in regional Securitate directorates in Romania. Yet Moscow claims Putin had held an important job in East Germany and was decorated by the East German government. The Gauck Commission confirmed that Putin was decorated in 1988 "for his KGB work in the East German cities of Dresden and Leipzig." According to the West German magazine Der Spiegel, he received a bronze medal from the East German Stasi as a "typical representative of second-rank agents." There, in those prison-like buildings, cut off even from real East German life by Stasi guards with machine guns and police dogs, Lieutenant Colonel Putin could not possibly have become the modern-day, Western-oriented Peter the Great that the Kremlin's propaganda machine is so energetically spinning.

Indeed, on December 20, 1999, Russia's newly appointed prime minister visited the Lubyanka to deliver a speech on this "memorable day," commemorating Lenin's founding of the first Soviet political police, the Cheka. "Several years ago we fell prey to the illusion that we have no enemies," Putin told a meeting of top security officials. "We have paid dearly for this. Russia has its own national interests, and we have to defend them." The following day, December 21, 1999, another "memorable day" in Soviet history — Stalin's 120th birthday — Putin organized a closed-door reception in his Kremlin office reported as being for the politicians who had won seats in the Duma. There he raised a glass to good old Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili (Stalin, meaning "man of steel," was the dictator's nom de guerre).

Days later, in a 14-page article entitled "Russia on the Threshold of a New Millennium," Putin defined Russia's new "democratic" future: "The state must be where and as needed; freedom must be where and as required." The Chechens' effort to regain their independence was mere "terrorism," and he pledged to eradicate it: "We'll get them anywhere — if we find terrorists sitting in the outhouse, then we will piss on them there. The matter is settled." It is not.


SCAPEGOATING AND CONSOLIDATING
On September 9, 2004, Chechen nationalists announced a $20 million prize on the head of the "war criminal" Vladimir Putin, whom they accuse of "murdering hundreds of thousands of peaceful civilians on the territory of Chechnya, including tens of thousands of children."

For his part, President Putin tried to divert the outrage over the horrific Breslan catastrophe away from his KGB colleagues who had caused it, and to direct public anger toward the KGB's archenemy, the U.S. Citing meetings of mid-level U.S. officials with Chechen leaders, Putin accused Washington of having a double standard when dealing with terrorism. "Why don't you meet Osama bin Laden, invite him to Brussels or to the White House and engage in talks, ask him what he wants and give it to him so he leaves you in peace?" Putin told reporters in Moscow.

Then Putin blamed the collapse of the Soviet Union for what he called a "full scale" terrorist war against Russia and started taking Soviet-style steps to strengthen the Kremlin's power. On September 13, he announced measures to eliminate the election of the country's governors, who should now be appointed by the Kremlin, and to allow only "certified" people — that is, former KGB officers — to run for the parliament.

When the Soviet Union collapsed, its people had a unique opportunity to cast out their political police, a peculiarly Russian instrument of power that has for centuries isolated their country from the real world and in the end left them ill-equipped to deal with the complexities of modern society. Unfortunately, up until then most Russians had never owned property, had never experienced a free-market economy, and had never made decisions for themselves. Under Communism they were taught to despise Western democracy and everything they believed to be connected with capitalism, e.g., free enterprise, decision-making, hard work, risk-taking, and social inequality. Moreover, the Russians had also had minimal experience with real political parties, since their country has been a police state since the 16th century. To them, it seemed easier to continue the tradition of the political police state than to take the risk of starting everything anew.

But the times have changed dramatically. My native country, which borders Russia, is a good example. At first, Romania's post-Communism rulers, for whom managing the country with the help of the political police was the only form of government they had ever known, bent over backwards to preserve the KGB-created Securitate, a criminal organization that became the symbol of Communist tyranny in the West. Article 27 of Romania's 1990 law for organizing the new intelligence services stated that only former Securitate officers "who have been found guilty of crimes against fundamental human rights and against freedom" could not be employed in the "new" intelligence services. In other words, only Ceausescu would not have been eligible for employment there. Today, Romania still has the same president as in 1990, but his country is now a member of NATO and is helping the U.S. to rid the world of Cold War-style dictators and the terrorism they generated.

Russia can also break with its Communist past and join our fight against despots and terrorists. We can help them do it, but first we should have a clear understanding of what is now going on behind the veil of secrecy that still surrounds the Kremlin.

— Ion Mihai Pacepa, a former two-star general, is the highest-ranking intelligence officer to have defected from the Soviet bloc. His book Red Horizons has been republished in 27 countries.

http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/comment/pacepa200409200814.asp


20 posted on 11/16/2004 11:47:56 PM PST by TapTheSource
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...

See post #20


21 posted on 11/17/2004 12:17:16 AM PST by TapTheSource
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To: monkeywrench
The (globalist) MSM has been beating up on Putin pretty badly. Think about it.

Just because the media criticizes someone doesn't make them a saint.

Putin is guilty of plenty of things. He is harassing and shutting down independent media, for one. Another reason to despise him: after the Beslan terror attack, instead of working to improve Russian security, he worked to seize more power for the executive (himself). He's not a good guy, although it's not a bad thing for our countries to cooperate.

22 posted on 11/17/2004 12:20:52 AM PST by xm177e2 (Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
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To: A. Pole

From post: "60 pecent of the Russian population, as surveyed in both online and offline polls supported John F. Kerry - "

Not as bad as I thought - but still high considering what those poor people went through under the two before Putin - Guess they haven't put two and two together yet -

So where are these secret cities that Gore funded - I always wonder about that and the IMF funds - any new subs sighted lately - ()


23 posted on 11/17/2004 12:23:25 AM PST by Pastnowfuturealpha
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To: xm177e2

See post #20


24 posted on 11/17/2004 12:25:17 AM PST by TapTheSource
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To: inquest; jb6

Re: Russia's supplying Saddam with that jamming equipment.

Was Putin culpable for this? Or was it just a unethical company?


25 posted on 11/17/2004 12:27:39 AM PST by endthematrix ("Hey, it didn't hit a bone, Colonel. Do you think I can go back?" - U.S. Marine)
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His reverence to both Soviet and Orthodox Christianity legacies makes him a clear conservative...

How dare you put both of these things in the same sentence. And being a commie would make him a liberal Democrat, NOT a conservative or a Republican.

A$$hole!
26 posted on 11/17/2004 12:33:49 AM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: endthematrix

Putin and his KGB cronies were absolutely responsible.

"The Communist Party received lavish funding from Mikhail Khodorkovsky before the 2003 poll and had four key Yukos personnel on its list _ a fact conveniently ignored in the free Western media."

That's because Khodorkovsky was put in his position by the Communists (like KGB Putin). Unfortunately for Khodorkovsky, he has already found out what the Communists have in store for those who they use as middle men to do "business" (and thus be tainted) with the West.

According to Anatoly Golitsyn, the most important defector to ever defect from the USSR, these people would be used, just as the Soviets are using the Eastern Bloc countries, to lure Western Europe (and the US) into what Golitsyn calls The Final Phase:

THE WORLDWIDE COMMUNIST FEDERATION [should they--Putin's KGB Cronies--succeed…taken from Golitsyn’s book New Lies For Old, 1984]

‘Integration of the Communist Bloc would follow the lines envisaged by Lenin when the Third Communist International was founded. That is to say, the Soviet Union and China would not absorb one another or other Communist states. All the countries of the European and Asiatic Communist zones, together with new Communist states (should Russia succeed) in Europe and the Third World, would join a supranational economic and political Communist federation (this is precisely what the Soviets have in mind for the impending EU collective). Soviet-Albanian, Soviet-Yugoslav, and Soviet-Romanian disputes and ‘differences’ would be resolved in the wake, or possibly in advance of, Sino-Soviet reconciliation (Golitsyn goes to great lengths in previous chapters to show how the split between the Soviets and the Chinese was completely healed immediately after Stalin’s death…however, they continued the illusion of a split to dupe the West into backing alternating sides, depending on circumstances). The political, economic, military, diplomatic, and ideological cooperation between all the Communist states, at present partially concealed, would become clearly visible. There might even be public acknowledgment that the splits and disputes were long-term disinformation operations that had successfully deceived the “imperialist” powers. The effect on Western morale can be imagined’ (the Soviets have employed this tactic on numerous occasions).

‘In the new worldwide Communist federation the present different brands of Communism would disappear, to be replaced by a uniform, rigorous brand of Leninism. The process would be painful. Concessions made in the name of economic and political reform would be withdrawn. Religious and intellectual dissent would be suppressed. Nationalism and all other forms of genuine oppositions would be crushed. THOSE WHO HAD TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF DETENTE TO ESTABLISH FRIENDLY WESTERN CONTACTS WOULD BE REBUKED OR PERSECUTED LIKE THOSE SOVIET OFFICERS WHO WORKED WITH THE ALLIES DURING THE SECOND WORLD WAR. In new Communist state for example, in France, Italy, and the Third World—the “alienated classes” would be reeducated. Show trials of “imperialist agents” would be staged. Action would be taken against nationalist and social democratic leaders, party activists, former civil servants, officers, and priests. The last vestiges of private enterprise and ownership would be obliterated. Nationalization of industry, finance, and agriculture would be completed. In fact, all the totalitarian features familiar from the early stages of the Soviet revolution and the postwar Stalinist years in Eastern Europe might be expected to reappear, especially in those countries newly won for Communism. Unchallenged and unchallengeable, a true Communist monolith would dominate the world.’

Independent Confirmation:

The Eurasian Axis
Dr. Alexandr Nemets
Monday, Oct. 20, 2003

On Oct. 8-9, a German-Russian summit took place in Yekaterinburg city, also known as the capital of Ural; this was the sixth German-Russian summit during President Vladimir Putin’s regime, i.e., in three and a half years.
Ministers of Foreign Affairs Ivanov and Fisher, Ministers of Internal Affairs Gryzlov and Shilli, Ministers of Trade and Economy Gref and Klement, etc., participated in the summit. In addition, German Chancellor Gerhard sSchroeder brought a group of 50 leading German businessmen, including the presidents of Ruhrgas, Deutsche Bank and Lufthansa Airline. In 1995, Russian President Boris Yeltsin proposed to French President Jacques Chiraq and German Chancellor Helmut Kohl to have a summit in Yekaterinburg for the purpose of establishing a new German-French-Russian political axis. This summit didn't take place.

In March 2003, during the Iraqi War (when the Paris-Berlin-Moscow-Beijing axis, for the first time ever, went from the darkness to the light), Putin sent Schroeder a new invitation to visit Yekaterinburg. It is unknown whether French President Chiraq received the same invitation. However, Schroeder almost certainly represented, at the last summit, the interests of France in addition to Germany.

In 2002, German-Russian trade reached $24 billion and could slightly increase in 2003. By the end of 2003, the accumulated volume of German investment in Russia reached $7 billion. Germany is the largest creditor of Russia: it owns 40 percent of Russian debts to the London Club, or $17 billion. Germany is one of the few countries investing money in the Russian manufacturing industry. The number of Russian enterprises with German participation reached 2,500.

It should be stressed that Germany receives from Russia 23 billion cubic meters of natural gas annually, mostly from Gazprom Corp.; this satisfies at least one-third of the German demand for natural gas.

Presently, Russia sells natural gas to Germany and other European customers for about $100 per 1,000 cubic meters, while Russian customers pay (if based on the official exchange rate) only $20 per 1,000 cubic meters. Putin and Schroeder discussed ways to raise Russia’s internal prices for energy, including gas, up to the world level.

In this case, Russia’s internal consumption of natural gas would definitely drop – just as it already happened with crude oil and oil products – and Russia would receive huge resources for gas export to Germany and other EU countries.

The two sides signed agreements about facilitating the issuing of visas and expanding cooperation between Germany and Russia’s most-western Baltic enclave of Kaliningrad. They also signed an agreement for transportation, through Russia, of German military personnel and goods to Afghanistan.

Remarkably, the two sides discussed the problems of Iraq, North Korea and Iran, and found how close their positions are; the differences are small if any. And the joint position of these two countries in these areas differs greatly from America’s.

Many years ago, French leaders produced the idea of a "United Europe" from the Atlantic to Ural. However, this United Europe has nothing to do with American interests.

Simultaneously with the summit in Yekaterinburg, on Oct. 10, Speaker of the Iranian Parliament Mehdi Karubi met, in Tehran, a delegation from the German Bundestag. Karubi emphasized during the meeting that the Iranian nuclear program is "transparent, peaceful and contains no threat to the world."

He also stressed that "criminal actions of Zionists contribute to instability in the Middle East." It looks as if these statements elicited no serious objections from the German guests. Speaker Mekhdi also said that development and expansion of political and economic ties with the EU, particularly with Germany, is a priority for Tehran.

Volker Ruhe, the head of the Bundestag delegation, supported the expansion of ties between Germany and Iran and "highly estimated the recent processes of democracy expanding in Iran." He also appealed to Iran’s role in local conflict solving.

These were just two messages, from many, characterizing relations among Paris, Berlin, Moscow, Beijing, Tehran and Pyongyang. The Paris-Berlin-Moscow-Beijing axis is growing and strengthening; and the nice regimes in Tehran and Pyongyang are becoming its clients.

This is bad by itself, but the deliberate ignoring of this reality by official Washington, D.C., is even worse. We know that the Bush administration concentrates all its efforts on solving the problems of postwar Iraq. However, very probably, just the activity of some participants and clients of the Eurasian Axis – especially those very interested in high oil prices on the world market and very uninterested in restoring the Iraqi oil industry – effectively blocks these efforts.

In March 2003, when American-Russian relations were at their low ebb, Gleb Pavlovsky, one of Putin’s "dark strategists," published in the major Moscow papers, including the official Russian army paper Krasnaya Zvezda, several articles, which can be condensed to the following: Russia should ‘help’ America to exhaust itself in the struggle for world hegemony. Eventually America will crash – as the USSR crashed – and will crawl back to the North American continent.

Despite all the sweet words between Washington and Moscow, the Kremlin continues working only in this direction. And not without success: Look at the figures of the federal deficit. Indeed, for how long will America be capable of maintaining its presence, particularly a military presence, in Iraq and other key regions of the world?

And would it be possible for America to take even a step ahead in the Middle East, i.e., to increase its political and military presence in Trans-Caucasus region (in Georgia and Azerbaijan) and in Central Asia? Kremlin and the entire Eurasian Axis spare no effort to prevent the strengthening of the American position in this vital zone. And without such a strengthening, any hopes for a changed situation in Iran and termination of the Iranian nuclear-missile program would fail.

On Sept. 25-28, the leading Beijing papers published a series of comments on the Bush-Putin summit. They can be condensed to the following:

a) Putin escapes direct confrontation with America. Moreover, he intends to get as much money from America and the entire West – in the form of hydrocarbons export and Western investment in Russia – as possible.

b) Putin pretends to be "a friend of America" and repeats phrases about "joint Russian-American struggle against terrorism"; this allows Putin to run wild in Chechnya and the surrounding Muslim regions of North Caucasus, without problems with the West.

c) However, in some principal areas, such as helping modernize the Iranian military or preventing any American action against North Korea, Putin is adamant: President Bush will get nothing here.

It is necessary to admit that the conclusions of the Beijing media are correct. Putin merely "plays a friend of America" and, at the same time, works for solidifying and expanding the Eurasian Axis, the new world pole, generally hostile to the USA and its close allies.

Remarkably, these articles in the Beijing papers even didn't touch the possible influence of the Bush-Putin summit over the huge – and still growing – supplies of Russian warfare and dual-use technology to China. This is a real sacred cow for the Kremlin.

Link:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/10/19/214534.shtml








Dr. Alexandr Nemets

Alexandr Nemets was born in Moscow in 1955. He studied at the Moscow Institute of Steel and Alloys, where he received a B.S. degree as a specialist in industry automation in 1978 and an M.S. degree as a data base developer in 1983. From 1978 to 1986, he worked as a programmer, at the same time studying Chinese and Japanese.

From 1986 to1992, he worked at the Presidium of Academy of Sciences USSR as an expert on the economic and technological development of China and Japan. During this period he published several dozen articles and booklets in the Soviet scientific media.

In 1991, Dr. Nemets defended his Ph.D. thesis, "Science-intensive sectors in the Chinese economy," at the Central Economic-Mathematical Institute, Academy of Sciences USSR and received a Ph.D. degree in 1992.

In 1989-93, Dr. Nemets undertook seven trips to the vast region between Lake Baikal and Beijing. In 1994 he emigrated to the United States, working at the University of Minnesota in 1995.

From 1996 to 2000, Dr. Nemets was a consultant to Science Applications International Corp. and published several hundred research reports related to China and Russia.

From 2000 to 2002, Dr. Nemets was a consultant to the American Foreign Policy Council and other governmental and non-governmental organizations in Washington, D.C


27 posted on 11/17/2004 12:38:12 AM PST by TapTheSource
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To: A. Pole

Perhaps forgotten:

1. Mr. Putin is a former KGB agent (& no doubt retains
those qualities and prejudices)
2. Is extremely bright (not to be trusted)
3. Sold Russian weapons to Iraq (Saddam)
4. Got them taken out of the country before our troops
arrived.

And it's 12:30 AM and that's all for tonight, folks.


28 posted on 11/17/2004 12:39:58 AM PST by Paperdoll ( on the cutting edge.)
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To: TapTheSource

In all that no mention of Aviaconversiya?


29 posted on 11/17/2004 12:54:40 AM PST by endthematrix ("Hey, it didn't hit a bone, Colonel. Do you think I can go back?" - U.S. Marine)
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To: Paperdoll

You have earned your keep (and then some)...sleep tight.


30 posted on 11/17/2004 12:59:55 AM PST by TapTheSource
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To: endthematrix

"In all that no mention of Aviaconversiya?"

Nope, none...post speaks for itself. But if someone talks back, the poster must needs answer.


31 posted on 11/17/2004 1:01:17 AM PST by TapTheSource
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To: TapTheSource
The problem is that we blame the wrong doing of a company and then go on to blame the person is working to eliminate that wrong doing.
32 posted on 11/17/2004 1:07:14 AM PST by endthematrix ("Hey, it didn't hit a bone, Colonel. Do you think I can go back?" - U.S. Marine)
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To: TapTheSource; Calpernia; lacylu; Honestly; Alabama MOM

See #20


33 posted on 11/17/2004 1:19:50 AM PST by nw_arizona_granny (On this day your Prayers are needed!!!!!!!)
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To: inquest
Russia is very much back on its way to being a one-party state, and Putin is cultivating a very Stalinesque cult of personality. And he's using the terrorist attacks against his country as an excuse for further consolidatiing his power.

And that's *exactly* what Democrats say about Bush!


"Like Josef Stalin - and Kennedy - the cult of personality."
Lenny Kravitz
34 posted on 11/17/2004 1:57:38 AM PST by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth...)
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To: jb6

"People change, at least Christianity allows us to see it that way."

Yes indeed Christianity is the light, and Christ warned we Christians 'Take heed that no man deceive you'!


35 posted on 11/17/2004 3:08:32 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: endthematrix

As far as I know it was a company. Hell we had several of our own, one even from Texas, who were making quite a few bucks off the whole scheme, no prosecutions here. It was a dirty scheme, no doubt, and with the UN holding the gate open, it attracted plenty of vultures, to include a few of our own American vultures.


36 posted on 11/17/2004 3:36:26 AM PST by jb6 (Truth = Christ)
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To: A. Pole
Putin is a worry to some because he is beginning to resemble the military commander of the force which will be known as Mog.
37 posted on 11/17/2004 3:38:45 AM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: TapTheSource
BTT for later read.

#20

38 posted on 11/17/2004 4:55:45 AM PST by Happy2BMe (It's not quite time to rest - John Kerry is still out there (and so is Hillary))
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To: endthematrix
Re: Russia's supplying Saddam with that jamming equipment. Was Putin culpable for this? Or was it just a unethical company?

Politics often is complex and far from black and white. We should see event in the context from the time event take place.

Even if Russia did send some supplies, Iraq was a client state of Russia for years long before the US invasion and Russia has seen Saudies as the source of terrorism (how many Saudies were among WTC bombers, did US provided weapons and training to the Saudies?). Under Reagan it was USA which supported Saddam Hussein and until now USA was main purchaser of Iraqi oil.

On the other hand Russia (together with Iran) was supporting Northern Alliance the main enemy of Taleban. Northern Allaince defeated Taliban on USA behalf after USA turned against the later.

BTW, if John Walker Lindh lawers were really shrewd they would say that their client was also motivated by American patriotism - at the time when he joined Islamists, the Northern Alliance was the enemy, and Taliban had some US links!

39 posted on 11/17/2004 6:19:20 AM PST by A. Pole (Col.Guano: I think General Ripper found out about your preversion, and your [...]mutiny of preverts.)
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To: TapTheSource
That's because Khodorkovsky was put in his position by the Communists (like KGB Putin).

"like Putin" does not mean Putin. In Sovier block most of people in middle and higher positions wee "Communists". It includes present pro-American government in Poland. You simply could not make a significant careeer without joining the Party (with the very few special exceptions).

40 posted on 11/17/2004 6:22:10 AM PST by A. Pole (Col.Guano: I think General Ripper found out about your preversion, and your [...]mutiny of preverts.)
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To: TapTheSource; Paperdoll; Just mythoughts
Read this thread:
Putin vows to protect business
41 posted on 11/17/2004 6:25:21 AM PST by A. Pole (Col.Guano: I think General Ripper found out about your preversion, and your [...]mutiny of preverts.)
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To: ExSoldier; ninenot; sittnick; steve50; Hegemony Cricket; Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; FITZ; ...
Putin is a worry to some because he is beginning to resemble the military commander of the force which will be known as Mog.

Gog and Magog, that is!

Read about at AC Russia Invades Israel

42 posted on 11/17/2004 6:36:46 AM PST by A. Pole (Col.Guano: I think General Ripper found out about your preversion, and your [...]mutiny of preverts.)
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To: A. Pole

I read. Hope Putin learns from the mistakes made by US government in protecting 'business'.


43 posted on 11/17/2004 6:48:51 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: A. Pole
If this is what the entimer fundamentalist cultists think will happen then I side with the anti-Christ, thank you very much.

First of all, it probably indicates a rapidly waning influence of the U.S. on World Politics and on the U.N., by this time. The reason America is getting less and less popular, may be a reflection of the fact that most Americans when they see him, will recognise the AC for who he is. As a result the U.S. will most likely resist his Worldwide influence, just like Israel of old resisted the take-over by the King of Babylon, which was also ordained by God for their sins! America's response to the rise of the AC and the coming Crash of its Dollar Empire, may very well be a rise and maybe even an eventual takeover by the US Reactionary Right, which is already noticeable now! America will manoeuver itself into isolation and disgrace and eventual hate from the rest of the world!— Especially the ire and eventual hate of the Ten Horns, who will join forces with the AC and finally burn America the Whore with fire!
Secondly, just as Serbia got away with "ethnic genocide" for a long time, but finally paid for its sins with the joint NATO airstrikes against it, so ISRAEL will finally have to pay the fiddler as well, as the Bible says that all and everything WILL eventually reap what it sowed! So here most of world opinion finally turns against Israel, except of course the US and its allies, as Israel is virtually PART of the USA!

44 posted on 11/17/2004 8:00:21 AM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Destro

where did that come from?


45 posted on 11/17/2004 8:09:14 AM PST by normy (Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.)
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To: normy
where did that come from?

See post #42

46 posted on 11/17/2004 8:25:00 AM PST by A. Pole (Col.Guano: I think General Ripper found out about your preversion, and your [...]mutiny of preverts.)
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To: A. Pole

All the more reason to turn Iraq into a veritable brick wall. Even better to take Syria and further beef up this wall. Invaders from the North and East must be made to feel serious pain.


47 posted on 11/17/2004 9:03:24 AM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: broadsword

It is a well known fact that the KGB infiltrated and coopted the Orthodox Church in Russia. Today, the Russian Orthodox Church is a mix of real Christians and those who pose as Christians in order to steer the Church in a prescribed geopolitical direction. So when Putin says he respects both the Church and USSR, we can understand that by "Church" he means the infiltrated, bastardized parts of it.


48 posted on 11/17/2004 9:08:43 AM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: GOP_1900AD

And how exactly will the Orthodox church help in this "prescribed geopolitical direction"?


49 posted on 11/17/2004 9:49:33 AM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Destro
And how exactly will the Orthodox church help in this "prescribed geopolitical direction"?

By using a lot of incense, I suppose.

50 posted on 11/17/2004 10:21:13 AM PST by A. Pole (Col.Guano: I think General Ripper found out about your preversion, and your [...]mutiny of preverts.)
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