Posted on 11/07/2004 9:52:19 PM PST by Dont Mention the War
On Tuesday, eleven different states outlawed gay marriage.
The basic argument I heard was not about marriage (more on that below) but about being gay. And a majority of voters seem to believe that homosexuality is an "immoral lifestyle choice."
Hmmmm. The problem is that anybody who has a relative or friend who is gay also knows it is not a "choice." It is something wired into the genes of approximately 3 or 4 percent of the human population in every single culture on the planet. Secondly, when it comes to morality, consider this: While the Bible does suggest homosexuality is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22), The Bible also says in Leviticus 25:44 that we may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations; Exodus 35:2 says that my neighbor who works on the Sabbath should be put to death; Lev. 19:27 expressly forbids men from getting their hair trimmed; Lev. 11:6-9 states that touching a dead pig makes us unclean (Are you ready for some football?) and Lev. 19:19 forbids us from planting two different crops in the same field or wearing garments made of two different kinds of threat. The penalty? Lev. 24:10-16 suggests we stone people to death.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
Remember, this guy is blogging for Hardball on MSNBC's website. And he reports for MSNBC every day.
Bias? What media bias?
(And yes, I know the headline doesn't match, sorry. If I had used the proper headline nobody would have recognized the point of the post, so I changed it. There's only so much you can do with 100 characters.)
The website gives Shuster's email as DShuster@msnbc.com, but that's the "dump box" for the little people. His true email address, which he actually reads and uses for his daily work, is david.shuster@msnbc.com.
Stoning...
Let's start with him. Smarmy arse snot.
It is a choice, period. Having said that, I will leave them alone with their choice and they should leave me alone with it also.
How does this statement keep gettng repeated without any proof to support it? It assumes no difference between those that are supposedly "wired" and those that are led into a bad choice and, of course, does not allow for the reality of so many who have tried homosexuality and then left it behind. The number of those who are "wired" is not established at any such percentage by any proof that anyone ever cites who asserts this claim which proof will stand up to examination.
No, the question being addressed is whether a basic building block of society must be fundamentally altered because it is deemed by a few people to be unfair. It has nothing whatsoever to do with hatred toward anyone's lifestyle.
Dems are historically illiterate. The Republican Party has its roots in the Abolition movement, and the Abolition movement has its roots in the church.
The Dems, on the other hand, historically are the party of slavery, and the Ku Klux Klan, and Jim Crow racial repression, and continue to be the party of ethnic division, while the Republicans continue to be where they always were, the party of color-blind citizenship.
What a dumba$$ remark.
devout observance to the Sabbath, long hair, all cotton clothes, and stoning people...
What the heck is this guy talking about? Return to observing Sunday? God, that would be awful, wouldn't it?
They are called Democrats.
Heterosexuals, homosexuals -- Last I checked, there's no sign hanging around their neck. They choose who they wish to have relationships with. That's a choice.
We choose not to legalize their relationships with the term 'marriage.' Life sucks, move on to something else.. The continued whining makes bigger and bigger backlashes.
How many times do we have to hear this claim that the Bible only speaks to homosexuality in the Old Testament? Check out Romans 1.
"is something wired into the genes of approximately 3 or 4 percent of the human population in every single culture on the planet."
Repeat a lie often enough and it is said it becomes the truth. There is not a study that supports this. Liberals repeat nonsense as facts and expect us to believe it.
Reminds me of the "old media" and their lies. We don't believe those eithers.
On the question of choice, it must be noted that all sex but rape is voluntary and thus every sexual act involves a conscious choice. A person's inclination toward a form of sexual conduct may not, for any number of reasons, be consciously chosen, but the mere existence of desire does not justify the act. To accept otherwise would be to validate adultery and pedophilia. Society has the right to require people to suppress harmful desires, even if it is difficult for them to do so.
It is something wired into the genes of approximately 3 or 4 percent of the human population in every single culture on the planet.
There is plenty of evidence that homosexuality is not innate. There is a very considerable body of testimony from tens of thousands of men and women who once lived as homosexuals. These ex-"gays" have renounced their former lifestyles and many have become heterosexual in self-identification and desire, while others have stopped at the point of comfort with their own gender and freedom from same-sex desires.
The "gay" movement's challenge to former homosexuals to, in essence, prove they aren't still innately "gay" is the height of absurdity since homosexual immutability was never proven in the first place.
Why is the question of immutability so important? Because if homosexuality is not innate, it must be acquired. And if it can be acquired, we dare not allow homosexuality to be legitimized to our children. If there remains any shadow of doubt as to the cause of homosexuality, we must err on the side of protecting our children. Indeed we must actively discourage them from viewing homosexuality as safe and normal, when in fact it is demonstrably neither safe nor normal. It bears noting here that normalcy is functioning according to nature or design. Normalcy is not based on popular opinion.
But speciousness is the measure of the day and fools people -- tickles their ears.
Didn't he once work for Fox News Channel?
I think he was involved in a "parking lot incident" a few years ago. Might have been covering Florida 2000.
Didn't see him after that.
What a stupid statement .. ROTFLOL!! But .. I can't stop laughing long enough to get mad!!
Keep it up, Schuster. Liberals equating butt-piracy with slavery is waking up a whole lot of blacks.
No, that was Shepard Smith that was involved in the parking space incident.
But you're right that Shuster was an DNC correspondent for years.
Kind of sad about this thread. I just wanted to point out Shuster's histrionic liberal bias, but instead it's turned into a generic "gays: nature bs. nurture?" chat.
This guy has the Old Testament. If he had considered what is said in the New, he may have been slower to speak. The Bible, in full context, stands alone with no crutch.
Great post!
Yup, the liberal trumpets of course want us to believe that ALL homosexuals are "wired," which is absurd in and of itself, but the larger point is this: I won't deny the possibility that a few people are born with a predisposition to be attracted to others of the same sex.
SO WHAT? ALL human beings are born with predispositions to an assortment of immoral and/or destructive behaviors. Many, many men are born with a predisposed innate aversion to monogamy. But the ones who value character and respect the institution of marriage and choose to live as moral people, OVERCOME that flaw. They DENY the temptation.
Some people are born with poor impulse control, or a tendency to turn violent, or any of COUNTLESS other flaws, all things which we, as responsible and moral members of society, are expected to suppress. So why is it that this particular predisposition--this urge for a man to shove his penis into another man's rump or another man's mouth, or vice versa--must AUTOMATICALLY be not only surrendered to, but embraced and celebrated?
The bottom line is that we're ALL born with dispositions toward a multitude of flawed behaviors, but it is flat out a CHOICE to engage in a homosexual ACT, as surely as it is a choice for a man to meet that woman who's not his wife, for a couple hours of fun.
MM
i am guessing that this guy hasn't a clue what the difference is between the old testament and the new testament, yet he perseveres in quoting scripture, out of context. i too would like to see society move forward, just as jesus christ moved us from the law of the old testament to the "love thy neighbor as thyself" of the new testament. (note to schuster: the last quote is correct. it does not say, "love thy neighbor by endorsing big gov't" in the bible)
Schizophrenia is also "wired" into the people who have it, but that doesn't make it normal. ; )
As far as I know we've never stoned people in America.
We've hanged, shot and electrocuted them, not to mention today's lethal injection.
Going back to colonial days, we occasionally burned people alive or and pressed them to death.
But I am unaware of any stonings.
The anus will lead us into a new dawn of Enlightenment! 
Also, I kind of like cotton clothes.
Beat the heck out of polyester. :)
Isn't it amazing how we never hear the discussions about how rapists are "hardwired" from birth to be rapists? Pedophiles are "hardwired" from birth to be pedophiles? Those that engage in bestiality are "hardwired" since birth to like sheep, or whatever.
Aren't adulterers "hardwired" to cheat? Aren't tax cheats "hardwired" to fudge their taxes? Aren't stopsign runners "hardwired" to run stop signs? No one is really responsible for anything. Everyone is 100% a product of their genes and chromosomes. There is no choice.
< /sarcasm>
David Shuster ... You are a Jack***
I never realized just how far left Shuster was till MSNBC hired him
He has a strange way of vocalizing that is very distracting.
He has this weird aura about him, like he has a closet full of skeletons.
He needs to get with the program. The number gays always use is 10%!
Liberals keep thinking like this... 2006 and 2008 will be a piece of cake. As long they keeping looking down on and showing contempt for the values of folks in flyover country, they'll remain a minority. Hopefully, a permanent one.
Alcoholism is a disease that some people are more prone to because of genetics. It doesn't mean they'll become alcoholics, however. As a society, we do not tolerate alcoholism as a way of life. We don't embrace it. We don't celebrate it. Alcoholics make bad parents, bad drivers, and bad workers. Further, it is very unhealty. When an alcoholic falls off the wagon, we don't say, "Hey, it's genetic, just accept it and drink up."
Homosexuality has no known genetic cause, yet with all of the known health issues surrounding homosexuals, we treat it as if it is perfectly normal and healthy.
Why, if homosexuality is "genetic", albiet with severe health consequences, do we encourage it, while at the same time we discourage other behaviors that have genetic causes and are just as unhealthy?
Why are there new HIV infections every day in this country that can be traced to homosexuals? WHY?! They complain about the government not doing enough in education, but we've known since the eighties how it is spread. I'm sick of it.
I love this site, eyes wide open. When you have the truth on your side it's hard to be duped by the truth twisters. May God keep our eyes open.
No, David. I believe in live and let live. But we are not going to let them change an institution that is thousands of years old. It is too much to ask. They may visit in hospitals. They may have insurance benefits. They may have jobs and housing without discrimination. They may own property together. They may will their property to their partner. They may have a civil union. They are entitled to human compassion and decency. But they don't get marriage and they don't get to claim the same right to adopt kids as a mom and dad. That will be the destruction of our culture.
This is straight off of du the other day.
Wow -- And this guy expects to be taken seriously?
My theory is the MSM troll asylums and sanitariums for "analysts."
How else do we explain these people?
'While the Bible does suggest homosexuality is an abomination '
I think Dave needs to define 'suggest'. I guess it is now in the same league as 'is'.
He wouldn,t understand that...look careful at what he said here..."While the Bible does suggest homosexuality is an abomination," It doesn't suggest anything,it FLAT OUT tells you it's an abomination!
see you caught that also. :)
No, the BASIC argument was the gay community deciding to become Activist over the Issue of Gay Marriage in an Election Year..
The Mass. supreme court decision, and the San Francisco Mayor's "wedding party" caused a major backlash among americans of all backgrounds..
The Gay Community's "In Your Face" attitude resulted in passage of Marriage Amendments in 11 states..
It had nothing to do with homophobia, or racism.. It had to do with bad manners.. and the assault on a time-honored tradition..
People just had enough..
Now I would just love for a Republican to suggest THIS! Can you hear the separation of church and state rants? Oh yeah "I want to send all couples, gay and straight, for counseling with a pastor."
If the pastor was worth a darn what do you think the first problem he would have the gay couple discuss?
This guy is pandering, he has no clear cut argument, grasp of the issues or even a concept of the constitutional law.
Twit.
Sorry, 'Charlie'...but the gay gene does not exist. It is not hard-wired in...that was a false assumption promoted by unscientific research and the left-wing media was only too happy to agree.
To be honest, most gay men are that way due to environmental things, such as their relationship with their mother...very important, and quite often the absence of a father, or a father who is submissive to his wife. Others are raped at an early age and after the experience feel that there was something about them that caused the person to do what they did. Others are effeminate boys, who if left alone would not necessarily become gay, but are usually easy targets during their adolescent years by slightly older peers or other gay men who befriend them to woo them over.
I don't believe most Christians are homophobes, although we don't believe their lifestyle is normal. We could do them a lot of good by praying that they find help, and see the light. A lifestyle whose average male age is about 42 is not a normal lifestyle by any stretch of the imagination.
Falacious propaganda. Science has searched relentlessly and has consistently failed to come up with a "gay gene." Seems sexual deviance is a choice best dealt with as a mental health issue after all.
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