Posted on 11/11/2004 8:04:52 AM PST by FairOpinion
Some safety and privacy experts are reacting with apprehension, others with all out condemnation over a recent ruling by the National Transportation Safety Board to require electronic data recorders or "black boxes" in all new cars manufactured in the United States.
"I take offense that this personal property of individuals is now being designed by the federal government," said Jim Harper, privacy attorney and editor of Privacilla.org.
EDRs are certainly not new. Information gathered on black boxes — typically everything from speed, brake pressure, seat belt use and air bag deployment — has already been used in determining guilt in criminal and civil cases across the country.
Privacy experts warn that once cars are outfitted for the most limited data recording, the government will find a way to argue it’s for drivers’ "own good" to collect more. They point to a push in recent years to install GPS in all cars so that emergency officials can easily find incapacitated accident victims.
"When you are telling someone it is for their own good, then it should be their own choice, they should be able to say ‘no,’" said professor Yale Kamisar of the University of Michigan Law School. "None of these things work out the way they are supposed to. Why should we believe all of these assurances when they haven’t been honored in the past?"
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Yet this kind of stuff keeps being decided, without any outcry from anyone.
People who scream to high heaven about some common sense measures against terrorism say nothing about such intrusion in law abiding citizens privacy for absolutely no good reason.
Next they are going to put cameras in your car and record what you do, to makes sure you are not talking on your cell phone, shaving, eating, drinking coffee, while in your car.
Then come the recorders and cameras in your home, to make sure you are eating healthy and exercizing.
1984 only missed it by 20 years.
I would be nice if stolen cars could be identified and de-activated by satellite... no more car chases.
I have never heard about this until now. Only a bueracratic fathead could embrace this sort of legislation.
And maybe if the gov't wanted to talk to you about something else, like taxes or gun ownership, they could shut your car down.
This won't last
Do a search on "OBD III". Interesting and creepy stuff.
OBD II is what's now being used; I think OBD III standards are still being worked out.
Want to make some big money? Start a business which REMOVES these boxes, and nothing else. then sit back and watch as the your bank balance explodes.
"Insurance" is the hammer of Big Brother's toolbox.
"Owners also have no legal protections to keep them from being forced to hand over that information to another party if a court order demanded it.
"I think (owners) have to be told of whatever data there is — and what is being retained longterm. What are the storage conditions? Will they keep it confidential or will they have to release information to anybody?" said professor John Soma, director of the Privacy Center (search) at Denver University.
"Without all of these concerns written into it, then obviously the recommendation is completely unacceptable," he said."
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And people aren't even told about it. They may catch this article, or they may not, but there is no notification, when they buy the car, they will just find out the hard way.
And I bet you didn't know this either:
"Black boxes, or "EDRs" have been fitted into every General Motors car in its 2004 line and is in a number of Ford models — about 15 percent of all vehicles on the road today, according to road safety experts."
They can make it a felony to temper with the black boxes. Remember, "they are the government and they are here to help us, for our own good".
"We need to record all conversations within the 'cabin' to determine accidents which may have been caused by 'violence against a spouse'"
I have no problem with Car Rental companies doing it...
I'm waiting for the GPS to be turned into an advertising medium; when your "change oil" light comes on, the GPS displays a list of Jiffy Lubes near your location...
I would be willing to bet insurance compaines will void your insurance, and you won't pass inspection if the black box is removed.
I surance companies love this because they can say you were speeding, etc and deny the claim.
Did you know the Gov't can listen in on anyone who has OnStar? Scary stuff, if you ask me.
I'm assuming that's part and parcel to the whole deal.
Bought my wife a new car because, well you know. However, I refuse to drive one. I will only drive cars (trucks) that are over 25 years old. They are rebuilt like new, low personal property taxes, no emmisions test (I can build the engine to have both greater horsepower and to be more efficent), and lower insurance costs. And they're fun to drive.
Another reason to keep my old clunker going.
I agree with you on the Government part. They have no business in my car at all...
Government's business? NO.
But these boxes will slow down lawsuits from greedy plaintffs who injure themselves while driving recklessly. When these folks try to claim they were going "about the speed limit", we will be able to do more than just roll our eyes and sigh.
DON'T give them any ideas. I'm already covered up in spyware from @$$hole internet "businessmen" trying to sell me unwanted crap. This would be just one more intrusion into my right not to have messages jammed into my brain.
I know I'm going to be the odd man out on this one but I would love to see this technology on my husband's vehicle. He drives WAY too fast and nothing will slow him down. This might do the trick.
I wouldn't care if it was on my vehicle as I have nothing to hide.
I agree as well, but can someone explain what a "privacy expert" is? Sounds invasive...
Oh, but they're not intruding into your privacy, they're "regulating commerce among the several states". Ain't the New Deal great?
I've got a different philosophy on this one. A five thousand volt jolt from my livestock fence charger will make short life of any such device. Unless it's an in series link to the car's ignition system, it's toast. That or you can remove it and keep it powered while it sits in your closet for a decade, skewing the numbers of data collection once you put it back into the car before trading it in or selling it.
...yet you're the same people who cheerlead for the Patriot Act.
What's good for the goose...
They imbed it with the main computer.
I found that all new GM cars have Onstar built in. When you license OnStar you are in effect only buying the User Interface. The Guts are in every car. They can actually call your car while driving un-benownst to you, find your location and listen to you conversations.
There is a company that sells a disabling unit. Buy Stock now.
Just one more reason to keep driving my pre-computer vehicles.
Jay-zus! All the more reason to keep riding my motorcycle and leave the damn cage at home.
They imbed it with the main computer.
I found that all new GM cars have Onstar built in. When you license OnStar you are in effect only buying the User Interface. The Guts are in every car. They can actually call your car while driving un-benownst to you, find your location and listen to you conversations.
There is a company that sells a disabling unit. Buy Stock now.
Consider that any car could be located and de activated by satellite then. Then flee from rabid Demonazis hunting you for not letting them teach your second grader how to put a condom on a pickle....
There are already kits out there that allow you to bybass these things. It's not hard.
One privacy outrage after the next. I keep thinking people will finally stand up and demand that both parties pass legislation and leave us the hell alone if we aren't breaking the laws.
I'm sick of being spied on and vast conglomerates of private and public organizations collecting information about me.
Go here to get a complete listing of vehicles with the onboard recorders.
http://www.harristechnical.com/cdr2.htm
Yeah, but it's for our own good.
The more sophisticated the technology the more endless the recreational ways to play with it.
ha ha agreed, read my tag-line.
The Capt.
It's also for the children
Neat to know. My newest vehicle is an '82 Harley. Everything else hails from the '70s.
When the part of the computer that control the shut off car mode fails and you are stranded.
Figure a large towing bill and a larger bill to replace the computer.
I see a future in jamming equipment...
It sure looks like it.
Just a guess.
The insurance business has insurance lobbyists fighting trial attorney's via the congress.
My EE skills may come in handy.
BUMP
So I need a black box to help protect my vehicle from "sparks in the central fuel tank", right?
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