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How many more Iraqis must die for our revenge? (GREELEY ALERT)
Sun-Times ^ | November 12, 2004 | ANDREW GREELEY

Posted on 11/12/2004 4:43:25 AM PST by Chi-townChief

The election is over and so we can forget about the Iraq war. It is no longer a political issue and hence matters to no one. The American electorate has followed the tradition of standing by a wartime president and thus endorsing the president's war. It was once his war. Now the election has made it our war. The issue is closed.

A recent report suggested that if one compares the number of deaths that usually occur in Iraq per year with the number since Bush's invasion, the cost of the war in dead Iraqis may be more than a hundred thousand human beings. Now Iraqi deaths don't count because they look funny and talk funny and have a funny religion. Besides they're Arabs, and we have a score to settle with Arabs because of their attack on the World Trade Center. Yet if we are able to sustain the number of deaths that have happened as a consequence of the invasion, we will soon have accounted for as many as Saddam Hussein did. That's a lot of dead Arabs -- and a lot of bereaved spouses, parents, children, other relatives and friends. How many before will we have to kill before we're satisfied with our revenge?

Someone might say that when leaders of a country have caused so many deaths that they might just deserve to be hauled before an international court of justice as war criminals -- especially if the war was based on false premises and conducted with an ineptitude that staggers the mind. It is an unnecessary, unjust, stupid, sinful war. The majority of Americans have assumed responsibility for the war. Therefore they share responsibility for all the Iraqi deaths.

OK, lets say there's only 50,000 extra dead. So that's not so bad, right? Americans are never going to have to render an accounting to their Creator for having supported such a massacre. Right?

I don't judge the conscience of anyone, leader or follower. I am merely saying that there is objective sin in the Iraq war, and our country as a country is guilty of sin. I'll leave it to God to judge the guilt, because that's God's job. I also leave it to God to judge whether there ought to be punishment for that sin. However, I think Americans -- so serenely confident that the Lord is on our side -- should live in fear and trembling about punishment.

The terrorists blew up the World Trade Center because they believed that the United States has done terrible things to Palestinians. The next explosion will be revenge for what we have done to Iraqis. We may not have been responsible for the plight of the Palestinians -- though very few Muslims believe that. We are certainly responsible for what we have done and will do to the Iraqis during the next four years of folly. God help us all.

Because we are the only superpower, there is little chance that our leaders will be indicted as war criminals or that an invading army will punish the American people the way we punished the Germans after the war.

Don't give me that stuff that the Iraq war is not comparable to World War II. That argument deliberately misses the point that a country is responsible for the deaths it causes because of an unjust war, even if the deaths are numerically small compared to deaths from another war. An unjust war is an unjust war and the death of innocents is the death of innocents. Where does one want to draw the numerical limit after which the unnecessary deaths of the innocent become a horrible crime? How many hundred thousand?

The United States has fought unjust wars before -- Mexican American, the Indian Wars, Spanish American, the Filipino Insurrection, Vietnam. Our hands are not clean. They are covered with blood this time, and there'll be more blood this time.

The one faintly bright spot is that our victorious wartime president, now that he has been re-elected, might be able to extricate himself from Iraq more quickly than John Kerry. The war will never end unless and until the American government or the American people say that it's time to get out.

Will that require four more years?

(And before Catholics write me hate mail saying that I'm a disgrace for attacking the war, they should ponder writing a letter to the pope who has made no secret of his opposition.)

mailto:agreel@aol.com


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Illinois; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: andrewgreeley; greeley
Greeley always says this kind of garbage possibly revealing his own bigotry:
"Iraqi deaths don't count because they look funny and talk funny and have a funny religion. Besides they're Arabs, and we have a score to settle with Arabs ..."

And it's amazing how the liberals always draw the wrong lessons from World War II:
"Don't give me that stuff that the Iraq war is not comparable to World War II. That argument deliberately misses the point that a country is responsible for the deaths it causes because of an unjust war, even if the deaths are numerically small compared to deaths from another war."
Greeley deliberately misses the point that if we took care of Germany in the 30s like Iraq now, 50-60 million lives could possibly have been spared.

And then he considers any disagreement "hate mail":
"And before Catholics write me hate mail ..."

1 posted on 11/12/2004 4:43:25 AM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: Chi-townChief

Maybe he should read this excellent, fact filled article about how Saddam was the ATM to Al Qaeda.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15919


2 posted on 11/12/2004 4:45:14 AM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed)
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To: Chi-townChief

Greeley's position is that the moral decision was to leave Saddam in power.
Therein lies his disgrace.

Nor do I think his motivation for that position honorable or honest.


3 posted on 11/12/2004 4:50:07 AM PST by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Chi-townChief
I am merely saying that there is objective sin in the Iraq war, and our country as a country is guilty of sin.


4 posted on 11/12/2004 4:52:15 AM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle (I feel more and more like a revolted Charlton Heston, witnessing ape society for the very first time)
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To: Chi-townChief
"How many more Iraqis must die for our revenge?" --
Simple answer - as many as it takes to finally get control and establish security and protect the US and the world from terrorists. Not that the Euroweenies or the Liberals get it. My suggestion is that they all get on a plane and go over to the terrorist sites and "bring peace" in their non-violence theory. My bet... they'd be grabbing guns to protect themselves too and non-violence would go right out the door.
5 posted on 11/12/2004 4:52:49 AM PST by Ginifer
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To: Chi-townChief

"How many more Iraqis must die for our revenge?"

I think we will settle when all the Saddam henchman, terrorists and insundry jihadis are dead and a democratic form of goverment has emerged.


6 posted on 11/12/2004 4:53:45 AM PST by IamConservative (People with courage and character always seem sinister to the rest.)
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To: Chi-townChief
"..the way we punished the Germans after the war."

I get it. Freeing a people from a brutal dictator and rebuilding their country = punishment.


7 posted on 11/12/2004 4:54:40 AM PST by Jaxter ("Guys like John Kerry spit on guys like me. I've been waiting 33 years to spit back.")
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To: Chi-townChief

Useless idiot alert


8 posted on 11/12/2004 4:56:07 AM PST by eclectic (Falluja delenda est)
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To: Peach

Thanks for the article.

Red6


9 posted on 11/12/2004 4:58:11 AM PST by Red6
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To: Red6

You're more than welcome. Share it with friends via e-mail. The mainstream press won't get the truth out; that's why Free Republic is here.


10 posted on 11/12/2004 5:00:05 AM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed)
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To: Chi-townChief
...Yet if we are able to sustain the number of deaths that have happened as a consequence of the invasion, we will soon have accounted for as many as Saddam Hussein did.

Even if it were true, the very fact that you can make this statement is the reason we went in there. YOU IDIOT!

11 posted on 11/12/2004 5:01:39 AM PST by Egon (Government is a guard-dog to be fed, not a cow to be milked.)
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To: Chi-townChief

How many need to die?
That is entirely up to them.


12 posted on 11/12/2004 5:02:09 AM PST by Dudesdad
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To: Chi-townChief

I think any moral calculus of the war would have to take into account that Saddam was a murderous tyrannical thug who cruelly butchered his own people. Replacing him with a democratic constitution (and that is the goal toward which we are working) will benefit the people of Iraq greatly. If Andrew Greely had his way, the Iraqi people would still be near-slaves under the thumb of a human rights-violating tyrant today.


13 posted on 11/12/2004 5:03:39 AM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Chi-townChief
The election is over and so we can forget about the Iraq war. It is no longer a political issue and hence matters to no one.

The unspeakable stupidity of this line tells me all I need to know about the rest of the article.
14 posted on 11/12/2004 5:04:54 AM PST by TalonDJ
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To: Chi-townChief

America mistakenly tried to stay out of WW II, America was drug kicking and screaming into it. This is similiar. We have been being attacked for many years by these terrorists and finally are on a mission of extermination. What is wrong with this guy? As usual, he suggests no alternative way to destroy the enemy. Is this guy an American?


15 posted on 11/12/2004 5:07:27 AM PST by HankReardon
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To: Chi-townChief

Do we have to set a number? I'm against quotas.


16 posted on 11/12/2004 5:09:03 AM PST by wildcatf4f3 (out of the sun)
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To: wildcatf4f3

LMAO!


17 posted on 11/12/2004 5:40:34 AM PST by SirLurkedalot (Thank You Veterans!!!)
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To: Chi-townChief

The president exposed further the hypocrisy of the mainstream media with this statement yesterday:

from our president who spotted the hypocrisy of those who don't believe the Iraqi's are entitled to freedom:

"There is a certain attitude in the world, by some, that says that it's a waste of time to try to promote free societies in parts of the world. I've heard that criticism…But if you do not believe people can be free and can self-govern, then all of a sudden the two-state solution in the Middle East becomes a moot point, invalid. If you're willing to condemn a group of people to a system of government that hasn't worked, then you'll never be able to achieve the peace."


18 posted on 11/12/2004 5:40:41 AM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed)
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To: Chi-townChief

Mr...oh wait lets just call him Greeley, not sure hes man enough to be entitled to the MR.
Greeley should watch this, then tell us when his compassion for the death and suffering of people got lost.
http://iraqitruthproject.com/


19 posted on 11/12/2004 5:40:48 AM PST by donnab
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To: Chi-townChief
Greeley is a big horse's...you know.

He just doesn't get it. If this was revenge then Iraq would be not much more that a few smoking holes with a whole lotta sand. Instead our boys are going house to house to keep casualties down. Doesn't sound like "Jenghis Kahn" to me.

Revenge is vengeance. Freedom is compassion. Think about it Greeley before you open your pie hole next time.

God bless our troops wherever they may be.

20 posted on 11/12/2004 5:51:14 AM PST by JusticeTalion (Vulcan's never bluff.)
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To: Chi-townChief
How many more Iraqis must die for our revenge?

As for myself, I don't know the answer to that question.

Let's just start with the head choppers and take it from there.

21 posted on 11/12/2004 5:51:54 AM PST by San Jacinto
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To: Chi-townChief

Who died and made him Pope?
Why does anyone listen to this piece of crap?
He is the perfectly modern secular priest, my guess is he no longer believes in God but keeps the trappings of faith about him.


22 posted on 11/12/2004 6:24:13 AM PST by steve8714 (Urban sprawl and citizens' guns will save this country.)
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To: JusticeTalion

You nailed it! This is not about revenge. It's about dealing with the problem (radical Islam) before it's too late.


23 posted on 11/12/2004 6:29:29 AM PST by airborne (God bless and keep our fallen heroes.)
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To: Chi-townChief
Now Iraqi deaths don't count because they look funny and talk funny and have a funny religion

Andrew Greeley has it all mixed up.

It's Liberals who look funny and talk funny and have a funny religion!

24 posted on 11/12/2004 6:44:05 AM PST by Gritty ("Hillary Clinton... an East Coast, liberal, feminist überbitch"-Gerald Warner, The Scotsman)
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To: Chi-townChief
( How many before will we have to kill before we're satisfied with our revenge?)

How many are left? seriously though, this 100,000 number is bogus.#1 it assumes that all Iraqi civilian casualties are"innocent" #2 it's based on surveying Iraqis about how many people they knew who were killed, is it possible that some of them "knew" the same person? or that some may have simply lied about it to make the U.S. look bad?
25 posted on 11/12/2004 6:48:58 AM PST by edchambers ("Rock n Roller with one foot in the grave")
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To: Chi-townChief
Ya'know one of my in laws commented to me that we will never solve the problem with radical Islamics until we 'understand' them better.

My response to him was that holding six inches high at a hundred yards and letting out a half breath before squeezing gently didn't take a whole lot of mental effort to grasp.
26 posted on 11/12/2004 6:50:30 AM PST by ManMountain (In case of social breakdown remember Liberals... The other white meat.)
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To: Chi-townChief
Ummmm... maybe the Rev. Greeley needs to look in the mirror and decide how God will hold him accountable for publicly shilling for a presidential candidate that openly defied the Church, desecrated the Sacrament of Holy Commmunion, and championed the slaughter of 40 million unborn babies....

Oh - oh! And then he can explain how he KNOWS about an active underground gay/pedophile priest society in the Chicago archdiocese and a supposed related "homicide", yet does - not - go - to the police or do anything to stop them...

27 posted on 11/12/2004 6:55:48 AM PST by Rutles4Ever ("...upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.")
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To: Chi-townChief

Greeley should stick to his forte: writing pornography and breaking his vow of celibacy.


28 posted on 11/12/2004 8:06:07 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Chi-townChief

How many? As many as it takes to show the fanatics that we mean business and have the will to prevail.


29 posted on 11/12/2004 8:27:25 AM PST by wildbill
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To: wildbill

How many Greeleys does it take to screw in a light bulb?


30 posted on 11/12/2004 8:36:12 AM PST by NRA1995 (Free Republic Inaugural Ball II, here I come!!!)
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To: NRA1995

I dont know. I'll bite. How many Greeleys DOES it take to screw in a light bulb?


31 posted on 11/12/2004 8:52:00 AM PST by wildbill
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To: Chi-townChief

wow...ANDREW GREELEY is the pig.


32 posted on 11/12/2004 8:54:03 AM PST by martin gibson
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To: Chi-townChief
Consider this, watching the wonderfull soliders fighting on the street by street in Fallugh, this could happen on the streets of America, you can never put anything past these morons, are capable of anything.
33 posted on 11/12/2004 9:09:20 AM PST by lillybet
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To: wildbill

just a rhetorical question......


34 posted on 11/12/2004 9:09:42 AM PST by NRA1995 (Free Republic Inaugural Ball II, here I come!!!)
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To: Chi-townChief
The election is over and so we can forget about the Iraq war. It is no longer a political issue and hence matters to no one.

This guy is an idiot. It matters to me -- I'm deployed over here! I cringe when I read this kind of drivel. And to think, in another two years we'll have to suffer through another two years of hearing the loony leftists shill over and over again, "America is ready for change. The failed policies of this administration blah blah blah..." Hopefully we can get Iraq stablized in the next 18 months, so the liberals won't have much to speak about.

35 posted on 11/12/2004 9:20:47 AM PST by gcraig
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