Posted on 11/13/2004 6:05:41 AM PST by cpforlife.org
No offense but actually, it is.
It's fine to have your beliefs, but try to be friggin objective about it. Shooting kids in the face and raping women and slitting their throats takes a far greater evil than aborting an embryo.
Really? So dismembering with a scapel or dessiscating with saline is humane? Perhaps you should tell that to them
You're right. It is far worse. A child in the womb can't defend himself in any way. He relies upon your humanity to protect him.
But can we not work on both (war against terrorism and war against abortion) at the same time?
No, it's not and it's a sign of how unhinged some on the pro-life side are...There was never a doubt as to the brutality and evil that it took to murder the Jews or Cambodians. They justified it, but it took a great toll on those involved.
You essentially equate women with Mengele and the KGB assassins, when they are nothing alike.
This is called lack of objectivity and will do nothing but hinder you in your cause. Slavery has always been a more acceptable parallel because there were decent people who participated in that institution, whereas gulags and extermination camps were not a matter of a "difference in opinion" or "lagging morals."
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Thanks,
Kevin
"We'll just cut off our noses to spite our faces, because we won't have any say at all in government."
The Republicans have been warned already too, by some Ohio voters who were quoted following the election: 'stay the course, or we'll bury you.', paraphrased, of course. The voters said they would vote third party even if that meant the possibility that Hillary would be elected. Rove and the boys fought to win the 4,000,000 Evangelical votes they estimated had stayed home the first time around. Using and abusing that constituency is not in the Republicans best interest. Hence, Hillary's early play for that vote.
I was glad we defeated the dems in their current incarnation, but I believe fiercely in the need for a loyal opposition. Current dems are neither loyal nor a credible opposition, but hopefully they will turn things around.
I'm a Conservative, this time and many times before I voted Republican, but I'm not married to any party because 'sometimes, party asks too much.' Nobody with any sense is married to party, are they?
I would vote for Zell Miller over any current Republican candidate, if he were running.
And as far as the war on Terrorism being front and center, thereby reducing all other issues to irrelevancy, it has not yet reached that level of consuming all, maybe it will, but it hasn't yet, and so let the Republican party know, forewarned is forearmed.
So, because you can't see it or hear their screams, the innocent children (NOT EMBRYOS) aren't worthy of protection? Their murders don't count because it was done so quietly in a sterile environment. Their pain doesn't matter because you didn't hear them screaming. You called pro-lifers "nutjobs". I think that you have just taken ownership of that epithet.
"Does that mean that if I'm able to cover up my atrocities, to prevent you from seeing the results of my actions, to prevent you from hearing the screams of my victims, that I'm off the hook?"
Brings whole new depths to the saying "out of sight, out of mind", doesn't it?
I guess if nobody knows about it then it can't be evil!
If the MSM exit polls said 21% voted for Bush on moral grounds, then I guess in reality 25-35% voted for him for these reasons.
One way or another he will have to answer for his response to this mandate now.
Oh Jesus, it is NOT.
A gentle hint FRiend, when conversing with clearly religious allies - especially on a point of disagreement, using language the other side sees as blasphemous is just poor judgment. It is rude and can be seen as deliberate provocation. In the Catholic Faith, the Name of Our Lord is seen as the Most Holy Name in history. We tend to react to the abuse of His Most Holy Name the way patriots do when faced with flag-burning.
At a minimum, when people are put into ovens or beaten to death, you SEE the results of your actions, you HEAR the screams of the innocent and the suffering. That is what makes it that much more evil.
So, if I can find a way to quietly and silently kill adults (say Zyklon-B in camps like Treblinka, isolated away from most people) that makes it LESS evil?
It's fine to have your beliefs, but try to be friggin objective about it. Shooting kids in the face and raping women and slitting their throats takes a far greater evil than aborting an embryo.
Again, understand that to your Catholic allies, abortion is the moral equivalent to "Shooting kids". YOU may find a first trimester abortion to be "less evil" (btw, is there ANY abortion that you think is either NOT evil or GOOD and WHOLESOME?) but to those of us who are CATHOLIC, killing an innocent child is ALWAYS a great moral wrong, an evil act.
I look forward to your answers.
ACtually it's not.
I can only conclude that you agree with murdering abortionists and blowing up clinics--and how do I come to this conclusion? Easy. You actually say gulags and extermination camps are not as bad a thing as abortion(patently silly, but let's go with it) and I know that any of us would feel empowered to stop an extermination camp where Jews or anyone else was being liquidated and we'd kill the death camp guards and whoever was doing the killing, right?
So you approve of killing abortionists, you'd HAVE TO.
BTW, only a dunce would ever assert that most women who got abortions would kill a live baby(and most wouldn't abort a late-term) Yet you refuse to see that people perceive a difference between the unborn and born, whether you are moral in your approach it is a far different issue than Death camps, and you KNOW THAT.
Stop making pretend it's anything like gulags, because it isn't. If it were, people would at least FEEL that way about it(even if they felt powerless to act), but they don't.
I can't - they call us names on a regular basis. Except in the weeks prior to elections when they embrace us.
Since abortion = murder / holocaust / war crime, in your view, what should be the penalty for abortionists and pregnant women? Is the male who finances the abortion (the presumptive father) an accessory? What do we charge them with? Murder? War crimes? What is the penalty for each class? Life imprisonment? Do we seek the death penalty?
Since, at the gunpoint of the authority of the state, we are going to force pregnancies to term who is to pay for the rearing of the child. In most of these cases, the father is nowhere to be found and couldn't pay anyway. The mother is a welfare queen. So, since you are going to use the power of the state to solve this abortion problem, do you support the reexpansion of the welfare state to take care of the social problem. Or do you support throwing the women and children into destitution? Maybe work camps?
I just want to make sure you and everyone who supports this is clear were it is all going, and that you really have a moral solution to the problem and are not just bloviating.
We're trying to work incrementally. The trouble is that the tragic and WRONG Roe v. Wade decision has been the biggest obstacle for decades. We must reverse that and then we can start working state by state, trimester by trimest, to roll back abortion. We can't do that while the Federal Government believes that it must protect a woman's "right" to pay someone to kill her own living child.
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 The map above has 17 states blacked out. It has been updated to reflect the number of children murdered by surgical abortion in this past year of 2003, about 1.4 million in the U.S., roughly half the population of Mississippi, shaded in red. When added to the 17 states in black, this equals a population of 44,000,000. It's the sickening truth America,
44 MILLION innocent babies have been dismembered by surgical abortion since Roe v Wade on January 22, 1973.
Perhaps this visual perspective helps one to grasp the number 44,000,000 that's FORTY FOUR MILLION+ PEOPLE, are gone; dead - robbed of their constitutional rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
The war on Terrorism:
To try to get some additional perspective on this number, lets look at the war on terrorism. Some 3,000 people died in the horrific attacks of 9-11-01. The number of U.S. service members who have died in Iraq since the war began last March of 2003 reached 500 in the last several days. Also earlier this month we suffered the 100th fatality in the U.S. military's two-year Afghan campaign. So we as a nation have lost some 3,600 people from the attacks of 9-11-01, AND all combat on the war on terror in the last 27 months. That is less than ONE DAY of killing for the abortionists.
What if every day, for the last two years, 3,600 Americans died at the hands of terrorists? Imagine if 2,600 service men and women were brought home in boxes every day; and terrorists butchered another 1,000 civilians here at home—every day. What would that do to our nation—mentally, emotionally, and spiritually?
Unimaginable.
From an unborn person’s perspective things are worse, much worse. Every day for the last 31 years, about 4,000 Americans HAVE died at the hands of terrorists!
About one out every fourth pregnancy in America is ended by abortion.
Abortionists are the most lethal and brutal terrorists in the world. Their kill rate is over 99%, far deadlier than any of Saddam’s henchmen. The pain abortionists inflict on unborn children older than 16-20 weeks is far more excruciating than the most vicious forms of torture Uday and Qusay ever used on their poor victims.
The last 31 years of “legalized” abortion has severely damaged this nation’s sense of basic right and wrong. As the CULTure of death metastasizes, nearly every imaginable attack against the Family and of innocent life has come to pass or Abortion is a very depressing subject, one we would prefer not to think about. But avoiding the topic and wishing it would go away is as effective as on any other deadly condition.
BUT WHAT CAN I DO TO STOP IT?
CLICK THIS LINK TO A LIST OF 56 DIFFERENT THINGS TO DO. THERE IS SOMETHING ON THE LIST FOR EVERYONE.
Beyond that there is only one thing (earthly speaking) that will end this culture of death. Comprehensive education, on the sanctity of life before birth, beginning in pre-K and lasting through high school. This will have to be done in order to have a sufficient populace who votes Pro-Life. There simply is NO other way to get the needed votes.
Next year, I’ll shade in the rest of Mississippi, to represent another 1,400,000 aborted babies. And the year after that…..?
Since the beginning of the American Revolutionary War in 1775, up to spring 2002 (227 years), about 1,300,000 Americans have been killed fighting in battle to defend our country. Thirty One+ times as many American children have been killed by abortion since 1973.
How many more innocent people will have to suffer horrible painful deaths before the nation accepts the truth that with abortion, we are destroying our country and our future.
Please go to our Pro-Life Education Page to learn how you can help end this tragedy.
 Abortion Map of 2003
Exodus 23 Never put an innocent or honest person to death.
I will not allow anyone guilty of this to go free.
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I used embryo because there is a moment in time where that's what the life is.
You may find it offensive, but there are a lot of people who are your allies to an extent, but don't view the earliest stages the way you do. And it will always be.
I'd rather work with you to put more limits on abortion, but for you, there are no acceptable limits. As soon as the sperm hits the ovum, you've decided that's when it equals a human life worthy of all protections. It's kind of insulting to me that an egg that was just fertilized=my mother in terms of its value. Just odd, really. I can get with you later in the pregnancy, but not that early, and that's why I used that specific term.
But if they think they will ban abortion even up to the zygote level, they are fanatics who have no place making policy. The morning after pill is not a g-damn crime against humanity
So you would impose a RELIGIOUS test and ban all Orthodox Catholics ("fanatics who have no place making policy") from public policy debates? Again, I caution you that your use of the Name of God is offensive, most especially in the context of a discussion with and about the Catholic allies you have had up until now.
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